Why Does He Have To Dysregulate to ME?

[WitzEndWife]

Over the weekend, H started to dysregulate again over my parents. It started (as it often does), when we came home from the grocery store, and were putting food away. Food is a HUGE issue with him to begin with. He has issues about his weight, and clings to the idea that being vegan is a way to control this (even though he "cheats" on his vegan diet all of the time, and drinks a lot of beer and soda). Because of that, he judges regular meat eaters as "immoral" or as making terrible health decisions. My father comes from a country where meat and cheese are part of life, so he eats it regularly. Granted, my father is a bit overweight, and he could be making better health decisions, but he is otherwise in good health, and I think it's none of my business what he eats. My parents do have a bad habit of hoarding food in the freezer, or keeping leftovers in the fridge until they get old and moldy, which is irritating, but it causes my H to dysregulate and make my parents the "bad guys" that he can complain about over and over again (broken record style). He also calls them "Weirdos" quite often, because they do "weird" things like vacuum the carpet during the day, pull the blinds and turn off all of the lights in the house when they go to bed, reheat some foods in the microwave, or watch the news occasionally (SO weird, right?).

I was cutting strawberries to place in bags for my breakfast for the week, so I wasn't in a good place to walk away, so I just decided not to respond every time he walked by me muttering a complaint. Later in the evening, I was in bed, and he was complaining about the air conditioning being on (my mom has terrible allergies right now, so she keeps the house closed up and the A/C on until her symptoms improve), complaining about their daily habits, complaining about all sorts of minutia. I finally said, "Complain to your therapist, not to me. I don't want to hear it." We've had this discussion multiple times, yet he feels this NEED to complain TO ME. What is that about? Why does he need to talk to me about this? He could complain to his family, his therapist, his friends... .yet he persists, even though I've set a boundary that I do not wish to hear these complaints because they hurt my feelings. Even though I agree with some of the complaints (such as the fridge situation and the moldy leftovers), his dysregulation over it makes it a deeper issue. It's like he can't separate an irritating behavior from the morality or integrity of the individual. Is that common?

Any further advice on how to reinforce this boundary? It's really irritating, and creates tension. And it gives him yet another excuse not to leave his bedroom, because he can blame the "weirdos" for making his life uncomfortable. Sigh.

[isilme]

I will have to admit to the "yes, dear," attitude.  I validate as I can, and kinda ignore the rest. 

It's like he can't separate an irritating behavior from the morality or integrity of the individual. Is that common?

Yes.  The feelings he ahs about a person's actions are the sum total of all his feelings about them AT THAT TIME.  If he hates one thing they do, he hates them at that moment and feels they are inferior to him who knows better.

I'd feel tempted to respond, "yes, everyone has habits that can be annoying.  This is their house, and how they have lived for years, so I try to be patient with the ones that do not directly affect us, and am working to save up/cut debt so we can move out.  They are my parents I' appreciate if you could respect how I do not want to listen negative complaints about them, especially when they are allowing us to live here while we work things out.  Good night."  And then turn out a light, roll over and feign sleep even if you can't fall alseep right away.

Prolly not the best thing.  But H has finally accepted that his nighttime behavior affects my insomnia, so having him get quiet most of the time when I do that is a major victory.  I don't know if this would start a fight, you'd have to move out of the room for the night or what... .

[Grey Kitty]

I've set a boundary that I do not wish to hear these complaints because they hurt my feelings.

This is a fine point, but that isn't a boundary you are enforcing, that is a rule:

Rule: ":)o not do X"
Boundary Enforcement: "If you do X, I will do Y to protect myself from the consequences of X"

When you set a rule, you hand him the power--he has the choice to follow the rule (which he might do some of the time when he's in a good mood), or break the rule. HINT: pwBPD will pretty much always break rules!

When you enforce a boundary, you have the power, because the choice to enforce it is yours.

So when he complains, inform him that you won't listen to his complaints, and if he persists, leave. That may mean you need to grab a blanket and a pillow and sleep on the couch. Do it if you have to.

The sooner you become consistent in enforcing boundaries like that, the sooner he will stop pushing against them.

[WitzEndWife]

When you enforce a boundary, you have the power, because the choice to enforce it is yours.

So when he complains, inform him that you won't listen to his complaints, and if he persists, leave. That may mean you need to grab a blanket and a pillow and sleep on the couch. Do it if you have to.

The sooner you become consistent in enforcing boundaries like that, the sooner he will stop pushing against them.

What do you recommend if I can't get away, like if we're in the car, or out shopping? Often it's just a quick "swoop and poop" comment that he drops on me in passing, so there's nothing to "get away" from. Like, when I was in bed, he came down to complain, and then ran back upstairs. So, it happened too quickly. I'm not sure how to handle that. Do I leave the house entirely, or lock myself in a room?

[isilme]

What do you recommend if I can't get away, like if we're in the car, or out shopping?

Getting away is only one option, in the best circumstances.  The goal is for us to not feel a need to react.  When the dysregulation looks to be building to a long-term blowout, leaving somehow is the best because we can't react if we are not there.

When it is a small jibe, an attempt to poke you to get a reaction, in my opinion, the best thing to do it pretend you did not hear, not to respond, or, before this happens, come up with a bland, "ok, sure, dear," response that stops it in its tracks and does not allow the emotional build up for a rage to happen. 

We live with people who have messed up emotions and expectations in the world.  There is no way to make them always play nice.  They are going to say off things, mean things, at times, because they feel it's okay for them to do so.  They feel you need to have a dose of their emotions.  Even when they are for the most part able to be 75% or more civil and even act like a grown up, that angry toddler is in there.  The less we respond, the less incentive they have to try to make us - they get some sort of feedback from provoking us to share their negative emotions.  If you can validate the emotions without agreeing with their ideas behind their cause, that diffuses it a little.  If you can not react to what amounts to verbal pigtail pulling, they stop.  In a way, it's not much different than a schoolyard bully.  When I stopped letting them see me cry, they got less fun out of picking on me.  And over time, they left me alone because my reactions were not what they came looking for.

The boundary is the wall you set up to say, "I will not let these mean comments hurt.  I will leave if I can, and let them bounce off me if I am stuck in a location and leaving is not possible." 

[Grey Kitty]

What do you recommend if I can't get away, like if we're in the car, or out shopping? Often it's just a quick "swoop and poop" comment that he drops on me in passing, so there's nothing to "get away" from.

When you are trapped in a car, you can't do much of anything but suffer through it. (You might plan your life so you don't spend much if any time in a car with him, though.)

It is hard to do much about a single comment. OTOH, there isn't much you need to do about it.

You might try to communicate that you saw what he did and you didn't appreciate it, and you aren't going to start discussing why it is a problem since you've been over it dozens of times before, in shorthand, when he does a "swoop and poop". My version of that was "f*** you" in a flat or conversational tone of voice. That obviously won't work that way for some people. Perhaps "You're doing it again." would work?

[WitzEndWife]

We live with people who have messed up emotions and expectations in the world.  There is no way to make them always play nice.  They are going to say off things, mean things, at times, because they feel it's okay for them to do so.  They feel you need to have a dose of their emotions.  Even when they are for the most part able to be 75% or more civil and even act like a grown up, that angry toddler is in there.  The less we respond, the less incentive they have to try to make us - they get some sort of feedback from provoking us to share their negative emotions.  If you can validate the emotions without agreeing with their ideas behind their cause, that diffuses it a little.  If you can not react to what amounts to verbal pigtail pulling, they stop.  In a way, it's not much different than a schoolyard bully.  When I stopped letting them see me cry, they got less fun out of picking on me.  And over time, they left me alone because my reactions were not what they came looking for.

The boundary is the wall you set up to say, "I will not let these mean comments hurt.  I will leave if I can, and let them bounce off me if I am stuck in a location and leaving is not possible." 

Yeah, I definitely feel like he does it to get a rise out of me somehow, or to make sure I know how uncomfortable he feels. I've already told him it bothers me, so I'll try the opposite when I can't get away, and see how that works.

[livednlearned]

I wonder if validating questions might help?

One of the things that drives me nuts about chronic venting is my own emotional response -- I always feel like I'm supposed to DO something. Even if I'm not being asked to do anything.

Because really, that's their job.

My S15 can be an all-star complainer like his dad (uBPD). Sometimes I will validate what he is saying and we will take things to the point of absurdity, which works with his sense of humor.

In the last year or so I started to ask him validating questions and I notice a small dip in complaining. It's exhausting to think about ways to solve the things that bug you and I think he realized if he complains, he will be presented with an opportunity to make things better for himself. And he hates that 

I can't ask validating questions when I'm feeling triggered, tho. I had to start with topics that didn't push my buttons and look for encouraging signs.

[WitzEndWife]

I wonder if validating questions might help?

One of the things that drives me nuts about chronic venting is my own emotional response -- I always feel like I'm supposed to DO something. Even if I'm not being asked to do anything.

Because really, that's their job.

My S15 can be an all-star complainer like his dad (uBPD). Sometimes I will validate what he is saying and we will take things to the point of absurdity, which works with his sense of humor.

In the last year or so I started to ask him validating questions and I notice a small dip in complaining. It's exhausting to think about ways to solve the things that bug you and I think he realized if he complains, he will be presented with an opportunity to make things better for himself. And he hates that 

I can't ask validating questions when I'm feeling triggered, tho. I had to start with topics that didn't push my buttons and look for encouraging signs.

Yeah, I do think that part of it is that I feel frustrated because it feels like he wants me to do something. But part of the upset is that it's about my parents and they are doing their best to be wonderful to him. They try to stay out of his way, even to the point of going out to dinner more often than usual because they want to give him his "space." They are even going to leave to visit my younger sister and her husband for almost a month and a half starting this weekend. It breaks my heart that he hates them SO much because they are so loving and giving, and he just pushes them away and calls them names.

I might be able to try validation when I'm in a moment of calm. I'll have to see how it goes. Thanks for the reminder!

[JoeBPD81]

I'm sorry about your situation, being caught in the middle of two sets of people you love and you want to be good to but seems impossible is really frustrating. You love your parents and you want to value that they are going out of their way to accommodate your husband. And you love your husband and you don't want him to suffer, and you do all you can to avoid that. But you feel he is wrong, and harmful to both. And you see your parents could improve some things,but they have the right not to change even more their lives. You feel responsible about how your husband disorder affects people around you, 'because it's not fair to them'.

Maybe it will help to think it's not fair to you either, and that it's not fair to him either, he didn't ask to have a disorder. He doesn't want for things to affect him so much. He's not trying to blow things out of proportion, they're just how he experiences things in life. And at that level of emotional arousal he can't express himself accurately, so he asks you, indirectly, irrationally, to change reality for him.

I'm sure you know this. We have to become experts on validation, and then, who validates OUR feelings?  pwBPD seem to be very invalidating of partners, and that hurts.

My SO has many moments when she can listen and we can address things like that, maybe days after they happened. So maybe in this time your parents are away, you can talk to your husband calmly.

Be sure to thank your parents and inform them about how this disorder makes your H react out of proportion. Be sure you tell them you love them and that you value everything they do, and that they don't need to be perfect. Tell then that your H has a pathological need to complain, but that doesn't mean their help is not wonderful. They will get it, and they are your support.

For you, I understand his need to complain, but he has to stop disrespecting your parents. Name calling and such. I believe that if you get to that compromise, you will feel better about it. Then you manage the complaints as best as you can. You can tell yourself :
- he's just venting. Just by letting him speak, I'm helping.
- I don't have to act on them. I do enough.
- I don't have to fix the world to fit his perception.

You already find points to validate.  'It also bothers me how they keep food... .But they do many efforts to support us that gets them points to spare' 'this is a change in our customs, and changes are irritating,  but this is their house, and having us is an irritating change for them too... .'.  Maybe if you can validate something at the beginning, he would not get to the point of disrespecting them, or upseting you.

I can see how this situation is making you very unhappy, I hope you find ways to make it manageable.