My wife is reading "self-centered spouse"

[formflier]

Self-Centered Spouse: Help for Chronically Broken Marriages Author: Brad Hambrick Publisher: P & R Publishing (May 2, 2014) Paperback: 40 Booklet pages ISBN-10: 1596385863 ISBN-13: 978-1596385863

No idea how much of it she has read.  She sent me an oddly apologetic text yesterday about thanking me for "letting her" stay home for 19 years... .even though she didn't deserve it.

The church we go to has an extensive book store.  I'm assuming that is where she got it.

I skimmed it... .hard to imagine how she could read it without seeing herself.

Thoughts?

FF

[Portent]

Trust me she sees you. Its projection.

As far as she is concerned you arent giving her enough attention.

[GaGrl]

Interesting... .I immediately went to "she is trying to learn to deal with what she thinks is wrong with FF" ... .not "is this a problem with me."

Projection.

[once removed]

it does appear to be about how to live with a self centered spouse.

that need not be a bad thing. good communication tools dont tend to hurt, and they tend to make us more self aware. could be a positive investment.

[Sunfl0wer]

I skimmed some info about it.  Almost all I scanned seemed to use language of one spouse being an abuser and the other being the abused.
I find that concerning.

www.bradhambrick.com/the-intentionally-manipulative-self-centered-spouse/

I aslo do not like the way stuff is phrased as "danger" when he is referring to simple conversations:

The return question either changes the subject (“But you’re missing the point, what about…?”) or is condemning (“How could you think…?”). The abused spouse is placed in a dangerous position at this point – rebuttal and risk of being attacked, or acquiesce and surrender to his version of reality.

Doesn't seem what a person with PPD needs.

[Skip]

I haven't read the book, but this was the editorial review:

"Overflows with wisdom, hope, and compassion for the abused or neglected spouse as well as for the offending spouse."

This doesn't sound like a label and blame book.

[formflier]

I'll try to spend some time reading it (in detail) tomorrow.  I quickly skimmed it today.

From what I remember, if she takes the advice for the "abused"... .it will work out OK for me.  They talk about disengaging, only to talk about "serious" stuff when you are being "heard"... etc etc.

I remember a fairly strong statement about when one spouse is an abuser that marriage counseling is not appropriate until the abuser owns their behavior (long term... vice a quick "sure I did it please forgive me).

No plans to bring the book up until I think this through more.

FF

[Skip]

www.bradhambrick.com/the-intentionally-manipulative-self-centered-spouse/

That one essay is a label and blame piece... .the overall website, is more balanced:
www.bradhambrick.com/

[formflier]

 
The essay is part of the book.  Not sure if it is "word for word", but very close.

FF

[PeteWitsend]

my wife does this... .buys books that allow her to "frame" herself as the victim, with titles about "being too nice," "learning to stand up for yourself" and other amateur psychology garbage.

it usually makes things worse; she gets all fired up to "confront my abuse of her" (while I had been sitting there reading quietly all day) or whatever, and we get in more fights after.  In the hands of a pwBPD, these books prove the old adage about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.

after finishing one of her self-help books, she actually told me she has problems speaking up for herself?  I was like REALLY?  Because it seems to me you have no problems speaking up for yourself... .every day this week, I hear about how I don't show you enough love, I never want to spend time with you, I must have someone else I like at work, I must be confiding in others about her.

I HATE these books.

[formflier]

This books is fairly short and the "prescriptions"  seem fairly short and simple as well.
 
If you are being abused... .disengage... .only engage when you are being heard... .not tired, etc etc.

So... .it would be an interesting discussion if she wants to believe part of the book and "label" me per the book, yet not follow the prescription.   I'm sure you would attempt to deftly explain how that should work, likely because I made it impossible for her to follow the prescription... .   

I continue to be amazed at how something that appears direct and simple can be twisted into something unrecognizable.

Sigh... .

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

I continue to be amazed at how something that appears direct and simple can be twisted into something unrecognizable.

Sigh... .

FF

    You must be new around here FF?                    

[flourdust]

A little perspective... .

Your wife may weaponize the books to attack you. If you try to fight back by arguing your interpretation of the books, that will go absolutely nowhere good.

But ... .I don't see this as any reason to be excessively alarmed. Your wife has demonstrated that she can weaponize anything to attack you. New source of material, same result.

The books may be a storm warning that bad weather is approaching ... .but it's just another storm. Handle it like you would any other counter-factual dysregulation.

[GaGrl]

    You must be new around here FF?                    

Actually, FF sometimes gets caught in Groundhog Day... .

[Grey Kitty]

Your wife may weaponize the books to attack you. If you try to fight back by arguing your interpretation of the books, that will go absolutely nowhere good.

This!

What matters is whether she decides to/needs to attack/manipulate/dysregulate/etc.

What matters is how you handle the attack.

The specific item she picks up to attack, be it a self-help book, a gospel verse, or anything else is secondary, if it matters at all.

[empath]

Never underestimate the power of a pd person to avoid self reflection... . 

My husband has read a number of books that 'you would think' would help with self-reflection and change. The most recent one that I know about was "Safe People" by Cloud and Townsend; his interpretation of a safe person was someone who gives him what he wants... .  Then he tried to claim that I wasn't a safe person. (everyone else would disagree with that... .)

They need to offload blame for their problems in life, so it must be us because it can't be them. She thinks you are selfish and abusive. (especially financially) I'm a bit worried about the 'abusive' line of thinking that she is taking lately. That could prove to be a big problem for you. Do you have good documentation of what is going on and the decisions that you are making?

[formflier]

Yeah... .documentation is pretty good. 

She is really focused on "loving God" and since God wants her to love her husband and obey him... .then that is what she will do.

If I put on the blinders and "just" look at her actions, by and large she is doing that when my desires are clarified.  Blinders need to ignore eye rolling.

She has listened to the sermons on Biblical marriage and while she won't verbally acknowledge the finer points she actually does what I ask.

Finer point example:  When she swooped in to hug on the 4 year old in time out and I asked her to stop and go talk privately.  She actually did stop and go to privacy.  She said she didn't have to listen... .so I asked her if I was asking HER to sin.  Impulsively she said yes... .then refused to elaborate.  It came up a couple other times and she claimed I was a sinner and I had a deceitful heart... .etc etc... .but never elaborated on the sin I was asking HER to do by not hugging during time out.

We all know (and she does at some level) there is no sin there... and that it is a reasonable request/discipline technique.  I confirmed this with my P.

My wife hasn't interfered in other discipline issues (that is where my focus needs to be).  My wife has NOT verbalized her compliance (I need to ignore this... .I've given her a chance to communicate clearly but I shouldn't force it... as long as she is doing the action). 

Certainly not the situation I "want" but the house is much calmer (for now) and children seem "brighter"... ."happier"... .etc  etc.  I certainly am.

Quick explanation about "Biblical parenting" for those not familiar.

Man is head of household, wife is his "helper".  Man's duty is to serve his wife as Christ served church.  Wife's duty is to help and respect her husband.

Let's say a parenting/discipline issue comes up.  The man and wife discuss and if compromise is reached... great.  If not, the man has primary responsibility to God (not his wife) for discipline of his children.  Therefore he will make decision (after hearing and understanding wife's point of view).  The wife will obey UNLESS husband is asking her to SIN.

So... .husband says "Honey... .go tell XYZ to the children" and XYZ is a lie.  Wife should refuse to lie (a sin).

So... .husband says "Honey... .we need to have kids clean kitchen after breakfast so they learn the true impact of their slovenly behavior.  Wife should comply, even if she disagrees.

Hope this helps. 

Personally:  Oddly enough I would rather solve things by compromise.  In the military there were times when I "pulled rank" and said "this is what we are going to do".  In the back of my mind, I would think I let down my team by not providing better leadership.  My desire is to "guide" my team to come up with a solution... .vice "order" them.  However, rank and position is what it is and when I needed to... .I exercised the authority I had.

My mind is in a similar place in my marriage.  Compromise happens rarely.  ":)eals" are an opportunity to bait for a fight.  So... .I spend a lot of time listening to blather.  Once I've heard the record played a couple times I ask a direct question about "Is there any other information you want me to consider... ?"

Then I issue decision. 

If it is clear to me that what is being requested is ok... .I quickly grant the request.



FF

[Red5]

Many months ago, .when I was "grasping at straws" as to why my uBPDw and I were in our continuous cycle, and recycle... .of fight, stonewall, threats, endlesss emotional dysregulation , make up, wash spin dry and repeat... .I found this website, and a few others, as I was at work, I forwarded  the links (urls) to my personal email so that I could read them later when it was late and quiet about the decks at home, .which I later found out that my wife was reading (my yahoo email) on a regular basis, she must have been really bored to have to read my inbox... but she found these links, and looked, .and then woe betide unto me when I got home that evening... .yes, she called me a "conspiracy theorist"... .and said I was crazy... .insert frowning face here... .

[Fian]

Many months ago, ... .when I was "grasping at straws" as to why my uBPDw and I were in our continuous cycle, and recycle ... .of fight, stonewall, threats, endlesss emotional dysregulation , make up, wash spin dry and repeat ... .I found this website, and a few others, as I was at work, I forwarded  the links (urls) to my personal email so that I could read them later when it was late and quiet about the decks at home, ... .which I later found out that my wife was reading (my yahoo email) on a regular basis, she must have been really bored to have to read my inbox ... but she found these links, and looked, ... .and then woe betide unto me when I got home that evening ... .yes, she called me a "conspiracy theorist" ... .and said I was crazy ... .insert frowning face here ... .

You did learn something important.  Your wife was reading your email.  I am sure you put a stop to it as soon as it happened.  So in my mind, her dysreg was a small price to pay for that information.

[formflier]

And... .(stealing a grey kitty line)... ."nothing good will come of that... ." (her reading your email)

Lock her out and be done with it.  I did to my wife... .

It was a big deal for a while... .now it's not.  The price to pay was worth it... .I have privacy.

FF