I really need help and support holding this boundary...

[Lalathegreat]

Remember that thing where I said the cold indifference was worse than the yelling? Yeah, I take that back.

This morning pwBPD had his son call me to wish me a Happy Mother's Day. I have never tried to replace his Mom, but we do have a close relationship so I thought it was a sweet gesture. After I talked with his son I heard both of them say "goodbye" so I hung up. Immediately the phone rang and it was pwBPD wanting to kow why I hung up on him. And then he pretty much dove right into tearing me apart. He was incredibly angry that I hadn't gone over to take care of him yesterday while he was sick (remember, I set a boundary by making other plans). I referred to several texts in which he told me to "take care of myself" and that he "didn't want me to get sick." Ok, I know I know - just walk away stop trying to be reasonable. Needless to say it was a total nightmare. He came completely unhinged. He essentially admitted that he needed to see how much I wanted to help him - and he thinks this is completely logical and reasonable. He told me MY reasoning was INSANITY. That he was going to hang up and break his phone. That I'm a ___. That he is tired of me pushing him away. And on and on it goes.

Logically I know I should have hung up right after the diatribe began. Instead I allowed it to continue until it was time for me to leave for my Mother's Day plans - probably about 15 minutes. When I needed to leave I told him why I needed to end the conversation, that we could revisit it later. He basically told me that he doesn't know if he wants me to come over tomorrow (one of those damn "regular" days) and that I am to call and find out if he wants that in the morning.

UMMMMM, yeah no thank you to all of that. My line in the sand is that I will NOT be going over there tomorrow. And a bonus screw him for that manipulative, controlling BS.

But I am also scared. I am actually more scared about this than I was the other evening and I'm not sure why. I think maybe because I know this likely will be the time he ends things.  And it will be ugly and hurtful and he will probably make sure that it is absolute hell. Part of me wants to just end it myself instead of waiting for that. Except that I can't bring myself to do that.

Ok, so I need to send a text about tomorrow. What to say? "I am not coming over this evening. I hope you are feeling a little better." Keep it simple like that? I have a hard time imagining that any explanation will be met with complete contempt and just give him more ammo for an argument. He will respond with Why no matter what I send and THAT will be the harder part. Thoughts on how to respond to that?

Thank you as always for thinking clearly when I can't. Surprisingly I communicate remarkably well with... .oh pretty much everyone else. The fact that communication is impossible with pwBPD is incredibly frustrating.

[BeagleGirl]

I communicate remarkably well with... .oh pretty much everyone else. The fact that communication is impossible with pwBPD is incredibly frustrating.

Lala,
This statement made me think "Yep, and I can walk incredibly well except when I'm walking through a minefield".      I'm the kind of "clear communicator" who VERY frequently has friends say "Can you please say that again so I can write it down?".  And yet my BPDh has been going around saying "I just don't know what it is that she wants.  If only I knew what she wanted, I'd do it so she would come back to me". 

He was incredibly angry that I hadn't gone over to take care of him yesterday while he was sick (remember, I set a boundary by making other plans).

Great job setting and holding that boundary.  Bonus points if you had a really fun time and barely thought of him.

Ok, I know I know - just walk away stop trying to be reasonable.

Good that you know what you should do (and why you should).  Now maybe spend a little time exploring why you didn't do it. 

He thinks this is completely logical and reasonable. He told me MY reasoning was INSANITY. That he was going to hang up and break his phone... .And on and on it goes.

Logically I know I should have hung up right after the diatribe began. Instead I allowed it to continue.

Now that you are having some success in setting and enforcing physical boundaries (by not going over to his house), it may be time to start setting and enforcing verbal boundaries.  Something like - "I will not debate the sanity of my actions or yours with you.  I expect clear communication about what you feel you want or need as I will be clearly communicating what I feel I want or need." 

When he is threatening to hang up and break his phone "It is within your rights to discontinue this conversation and I think it's probably wise at this point.  I'm feeling the same, so I will be hanging up my phone now as well.  Maybe we can continue this discussion when we are both a bit calmer."  I tried to think of a way to handle the threat to break his phone but after typing and erasing several options I think it may be best to not acknowledge threats against his own property. 

And now for the question of the hour - Why did you allow the "diatribe" to continue?

He basically told me that he doesn't know if he wants me to come over tomorrow (one of those damn "regular" days) and that I am to call and find out if he wants that in the morning.

Another good opportunity for boundaries.  Maybe something along the lines of "We seem to be in agreement that we need some space.  I won't be planning to come over tomorrow and won't be calling to check your status.  I will be happy to text/call you when I feel ready to schedule some time together and would appreciate it if you will do the same."

I am actually more scared about this than I was the other evening and I'm not sure why. I think maybe because I know this likely will be the time he ends things. 

Do you REALLY think he will end things permanently, or just set up for a recycle?  Those two situations carry different fears to face. 

And it will be ugly and hurtful and he will probably make sure that it is absolute hell. Part of me wants to just end it myself instead of waiting for that.

What "ugly and hurtful" things do you anticipate he could do and how can you prevent/protect yourself from them.  Remember that YOU choose whether you are within reach or earshot of his words.  If you are worried that he will drag his son into it, is it possible to communicate directly to his son that you will be ending your relationship with his dad and know it will hurt him (son) and you to lose the relationship the two of you have had but that you want him to understand that he is not the cause of the break-up?

Except that I can't bring myself to do that.

Back to the question of the day - Why?  What is it about this relationship that you want to hold onto?  Since tone doesn't translate into writing well, I want to let you know that these questions are asked not as a "Why the heck are you staying? Get OUT!", but rather as a genuine hope that you can understand what keeps you from ending the relationship and whether that is something that might make the relationship worth holding onto through the REALLY hard work of setting and maintaining boundaries that would allow you to keep the things that make the relationship valuable to you.  If the questions lead you down the path of seeing needs that can be addressed outside the relationship, then you are in a better state to decouple those needs from the relationship and you know what to look for after the relationship has ended.

Ok, so I need to send a text about tomorrow. What to say? "I am not coming over this evening. I hope you are feeling a little better." Keep it simple like that? I have a hard time imagining that any explanation will be met with complete contempt and just give him more ammo for an argument. He will respond with Why no matter what I send and THAT will be the harder part. Thoughts on how to respond to that?

I think I would go back to what I suggested earlier.  He has expressed a desire for some space, and you feel the same desire for space.  You will give each other the space needed and will schedule some time together once you are both in a place where you are ready to reconnect.

One quick overall technique to consider - keep the ball in his court for getting his needs met.  I see a pattern where he puts the responsibility on you to "chase" him, like asking you to call him in the morning to see how he feels.  Not only has he put the responsibility on you, he has given you a "test" that you will either pass or fail, but never get credit for.  If you call him, it will be because he asked you to, not because you care.  If you don't call... .well, we both know where that goes in his mind.

I'm sending lots of hugs your way.  Please remember that this is exhausting work and give yourself credit for doing it.  Even if the proverbial rock rolls back down the hill, making it seem like nothing has changed, the impact on you is very real.  Don't beat yourself up for not feeling like you have the energy/strength you think you should have.  You are understandably going to lack energy and strength when you are expending them on this relationship with no reciprocal transfer of energy/strength back to you.                    
BG

[flourdust]

UMMMMM, yeah no thank you to all of that. My line in the sand is that I will NOT be going over there tomorrow. And a bonus screw him for that manipulative, controlling BS.

This is excellent, non-FOG reasoning. You have been treated abusively, and your response is to keep your distance from the abuser and to also properly assign blame for the abuse.

But I am also scared. ... .

Fear.

Ok, so I need to send a text about tomorrow.

Obligation.

I have a hard time imagining that any explanation will be met with complete contempt and just give him more ammo for an argument. He will respond with Why no matter what I send and THAT will be the harder part.

More obligation.

Lala, I think you can see that you don't owe him a visit after he's been an ass to you. You also don't owe him an explanation or to engage in discussion about your decision.

Don't send a text. Don't engage further to JADE your decision. Just take care of yourself.

[Grey Kitty]

Ok, so I need to send a text about tomorrow. What to say? "I am not coming over this evening. I hope you are feeling a little better." Keep it simple like that? I have a hard time imagining that any explanation will be met with complete contempt and just give him more ammo for an argument. He will respond with Why no matter what I send and THAT will be the harder part. Thoughts on how to respond to that?

Your proposed text sounds just fine by me... .and here's the long version of why

Not going over tomorrow when he's dysregulated, raging, and difficult is enforcing a boundary.

Enforcing it is an action. (Not going to his place)

When you enforce a boundary, he doesn't like it, and he challenges it, attacks you, provokes you, threatens you, tries to bully you into backing down, etc.

Key part is that he doens't like it, and won't like it. No matter what you do, or what you say about it, he won't like it. (And he has really crappy tools for managing his feelings like this!)

So any explanation of why you aren't doing it is going to be JADEing. It will invalidate his feelings (You should be there and do what he wants), and that will just upset him more. And the explanation won't convince him that you are doing the right thing.

Let him accept that you are going to do the 'wrong' thing, and he cannot change that. He'll be grumpy about it (at best!), but you don't have to answer the next call about it or read the next text about it.

I'm pretty sure he will get over it instead of breaking up completely. And until he does, he's not fit company for you to be around!

[formflier]

Big picture stuff:  Focus on Flourdust's FOG identifications.  Had he not done that... .it would have been my "go to" primary point.

Yes it is important to make a text decision and all that... .it is more important that you understand your mindset and change it. 

Mindset will drive your words, texts and actions. 


Now... .the "long version" of my take on texts.  Clarity:  There is nothing "wrong" with any advice you have been given, I'd do it a bit differently.

Principles/midset drives commuincations.

1.  You don't "owe" (obligation) him anything.  My understanding is that Monday is a "regular" day but you HAVE NOT made specific plans with him.  Correct?  If that is the case... .I vote for NC on the issue of coming over.  If he is curious, he can ask.  Should he ask politely, you can consider responding on your timetable.

Now... .if you have made specific plans, then even if he has been a manipulative a$$hole, you need to be upstanding and let him know you are out.  No explanations, just let him know.

2.  You need to live your life and "take charge" of the r/s.  I think you need to reach out with a plan you will do with or without him... .and invite him along for the weekend... .or next Monday... .or something in the future.  No long explanations.  "Hey... I'm going to see (name movie) at drive in this Friday night, I'd love to have you and junior come with me.  My treat"  In my world, I would hope this would "skip over" several days "he expects" you to be there at his place.


If you choose to do it another way... .I don't see anything "wrong" with that, as long as you have reordered your "mindset" and it makes sense to you.

I would be disappointed if the "mindset" is that you "owe" him a text (unless you have made specific plans).

     

You will feel much more empowered after holding to this... .go for it!   

FF

[allienoah]

Hi Lala,
Good for you setting boundaries and enforcing them. Keep it up! My experience -through the guidance of all on this forum(thank you, thank you!)-has been that the more boundaries you set, and uphold, the easier it almost gets. My bfwBPD has really been bucking me with my decision to go on vacation with a gf (why wouldn't I want to go with him?-I do but he can't go away now) and other decisions I have made in the best interest of my own sanity. He does rage and go off on me. The difference I think now is that I try not to let it upset me and cause me to give in. I very calmly just say "OK' when he tells me he doesn't want to be with someone as selfish, uncaring, cold; fill-in the blank; as me. It has sent him packing on all occasions, but there I am for the recycle. THAT part I haven't gotten over yet. He pushes and pushes, but will pull and pull after he has calmed down. I try to just say to myself when he rages, that I feel badly for him that he feels so abandoned all the time. Fear is something that has always held me back from setting limits and standing up for myself. It's the same fear of abandonment. However, I am working on myself to stop the fear and realize I AM enough and it's not good vs bad, just different. Once you start really putting yourself and your sanity first and start feeling stronger, Lala, you too will find it easier and easier to take back your control and your dignity. I know I had felt I lost mine. It is taking time, but I am hopeful. And I don't pressure myself to decide whether or not to stay all the time. I think that as I get stronger, whatever is going to be will happen naturally. I can only change myself, not him.

[Lalathegreat]

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I am so incredibly grateful for this forum - I really don't know where I'd be without it.

BG - thank you, I am working on the "why". It's a big, meaty question with new layers on the onion everytime I think about it. And I love your minefield analogy because it is so perfect! i appreciate your thoughts.

Flourdust - read your post with my jaw in the ground. FOG - why is it hard to identify when you're in it? And yet there it is - so clearly in my face. Thank you for the reminder that I'm not crazy, and that I do not "owe" anything to someone who treats me poorly.

GK - thank you, I needed to be reminded that his acting out is an inevitable part of the process. I know it isn't reasonable, but I do expect that I can somehow avoid his rage if I figure out how to "say it right". I need to remember that is never going to happen.

FF - As always your reminder that this is about what *I* need and remembering to always approach things from that standpoint is very appreciated.

Allienoah - I'm glad to hear that you are having success with the tools and that you are seeing improvements. It's good to hear from you.

 

[formflier]

  FOG - why is it hard to identify when you're in it? And yet there it is - so clearly in my face. 

This is your number 1 "strategic" issue to work on. 

Whether or not to send a text and what to say are all "tactical issues". 

You can win every tactical engagement and still loose the war.

In theory, you could loose every tactical engagement and still win the war.

Once you are able to consistently identify FOG... .I think there will be rapid change and improvement in your r/s. (from your point of view)

FF

[Grey Kitty]

I know it isn't reasonable, but I do expect that I can somehow avoid his rage if I figure out how to "say it right". I need to remember that is never going to happen.

You avoid the rage by removing yourself from it. (Enforcing boundaries to protect yourself)

You don't avoid the rage by walking on eggshells and trying to somehow, magically, not trigger his feelings!

Once in a while, you might catch him when he's getting upset/triggered, really be in that good place, and on your game, so to speak, try validating him, and have it work, and he will calm down instead of flying into a rage. This is like winning a jackpot... .not the usual outcome. Be ready to enforce boundaries in the 90%+ case where you don't get the jackpot.

FOG - why is it hard to identify when you're in it?

Mindfulness helps. Watch for a sense of unease, discomfort, fear, anxiety popping up.  Try to remember and be aware of those feelings. Where they physical, and if so, what part of your body did they reside in?

And try to not let those uncomfortable feelings take you for a ride while you aren't looking, and ask yourself what about it is bothering you, instead of reacting to it.

It is always easier to see it after the fact, but the more you practice, the sooner you will notice.

[Lalathegreat]

I sent one text: "I won't be coming over this evening. I hope you are feeling better and getting some rest."

He has sent 32 texts. Brutal stuff. I'm insane. I'm a ___. I'm selfish. I accuse him of not being close but I am the one who pushes him away. (I never said that so I'm assuming this is another facial expression/tone of voice thing.) He is done with me. His son is going to be devastated but oh well he needs to learn that people can be ___s sometime. If I don't want him to disconnect and move on from me I'd better call him. He's taken all of my stuff to the dumpster. He wants his pictures back. He can do so much better than my fat ass. (Which he knows hits me to my core because of some recent weight gain.) He's given me everything and I give nothing in return. Oh, and my personal favorite, I only stayed with my husband for the money.

It's taking everything in me to not respond. I wish I could say it doesn't hurt. It it does.

Is this an extinction burst?

[DaddyBear77]

 

It seems like an extinction burst to me. It sounds very familiar. The other night I got 17 phone calls and 20 texts for daring to sleep on the sofa. Eventually I gave in. I always wish I didn't.

You did the right thing Lala. Believe in that and believe in yourself.

    

[Lalathegreat]

Thanks Daddybear. Nice to know I'm not alone.

This just feels icky. I'm realizing that none of the things he is saying are necessarily worse than anything he's said before, but before I was there validating and placating and doing damage control and was generally there when the rage burned itself out.

This not responding thing feels very strange. How in the world does this play out? Does he just scream at me until he's done and then I wait - for what? For him to reach out? This is uncharted territory for me - is there any rhyme or reason. To this process? He says he's done but I can't imagine that.

[formflier]

Is this an extinction burst?

Yes... .

I wouldn't bring up the texts.

My initial reaction is to give it some time and then continue with inviting him to something a few days out.

Big picture:  Don't "give in" to anything as a result of the extinction burst.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

Yep, it is an extinction burst.

And if you give in to it, you are teaching him that blowing up your phone at you like this is the way to get you to do what he wants... .

I don't think you want to teach him that lesson 

So what to do?

Reading 32 abusive texts like that (and counting... .) isn't good for you. You "wish you could say it doesn't hurt". We all feel that way. But there is no way to stop it from hurting, no way you can stop it from having an impact on you to read them all. Protect yourself from this. Here are some steps you can take:

Turn off your phone. (If you don't need to be in contact with anybody else, like work, your family, etc.)

"Mute" him on your phone so you don't get notified of his texts; you can read the whole string later at one shot... .or perhaps delete them unread.

Block him so you don't get his texts.

You may need to block or mute him on email, social media, chat apps, etc. in addition to just texts... .various technology solutions work there.

If I was you, re-doing what happened, when you see abusive texts coming in, at the first or second, I'd block/mute him. I would probably keep it that way until the morning after you didn't see him that evening.

Then turn them on, either with or without reading them, and say hello, and see what you get... .protect yourself again if he restarts or continues spewing abuse at you.

You do have the option of telling him something like "I'm going to block your texts so I don't have to read this stuff." before you block him. Remember, notification of boundary enforcement like this is optional--what is important is to protect yourself.

[allienoah]

Lala I feel so badly that you are suffering through this abuse. It's like a punch in the gut-each and every text just another shot. Hang in there and be strong. I have tried blocking when this happens to me. It keeps my state of mind a bit more sane. My experience is that it usually goes away after they realize we are not feeding the beast-so to speak. Mind you, it is so hard not to respond in kind when the attacks occur, or call them out on their misconceptions/delusions/insanity. Stick to your boundary, it will create more self respect for you.