Don't know what to do uBPD coparenting nightmare w dvpo revision/pi/modification

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi,

I had a child with a BPD woman who told me she was infertile and pinned me down to get pregnant. Afterwards she stalked and harassed me because I didn't want to be with her. I moved away because the phone, cyberharrassment, stalking was so severe that I couldn't function. I have been in counseling this entire time. I've had 2 LCSWs and a forensic psychologist. The forensic psychologist told me the woman has BPD and the behavior is sociopathic. He also told me I had no chance of custody. That if I tried, I would end up in jail or something bad would happen to me. In any case, I convinced the mom to let me take our daughter every other week. Towards the end of that period of time, she started to lose it... .and threatened to kill me after telling me to take our daughter away along with all of her things.

I filed for a DVPO with CPS involvement in her state, and me in washington. I had the temporary protective order for myself and my 2 year old daughter for 3 weeks. During the trial, she lied all over her declarations and painted me as an abuser... .saying I got ejected from the hospital, and from supervising her visit during the order. The judge believed her over me even though my attorney said I had a 95% chance of receiving the DVPO. It got dismissed and I was threatened to return my daughter or face an ex parte order saying I was absconding the relationship.

I returned my daughter to the mom. We signed a joint custody agreement with us having 50/50 and joint custody, but with her having "primary residence". 2 days later, she said she was moving away and taking my daughter and that my parenting time would have to be adjusted. I filed parental interference with an attorney. Shortly after, I revised the DVPO  because my dv advocates and attornies told me that the judge made the wrong decision.

Now I haven't been able to parent our daughter in 6 weeks, she is visibly distraught, mom is alienating her right in front of me, emotionally abusive to her. I am in tremendous pain, and my 2 year old daughter is as well. Even though I wasn't super involved in the first year half of her life (simply because I was refused a one on one relationship as mom was breast feeding/etc), we  have become really close in the last 3 months and I can tell how safe and secure my daughter feels with me.

The mom w/ BPD and i went to a counselor (against dv advocates advice) and the counselor told  us we needed to see a forensic psychologist who could document all of this, and that the issues of criminality, etc made this way over her head. I am so worried about going to court for custody, because she is so clever and manipulative. Even CPS worker told me I was "paranoid" that mom wasn't emotionally abusive at all, that we were both fighting over our daughter and that was the problem. Just before that she baited me in to an argument with a tape recorder in regard to her lying about something she put in the parenting plan. She didn't put what she said in to the parenting plan, but recorded me getting angry(which is somewhat rare, but also somewhat involuntary due to the psychological abuse I have sustained).

I have a therapist and dv advocate, two attornies, and a burnt out family. I am at my wit's end. I do not think I could win sole custody of my daughter, but the mom is telling me I have to drop the DVPO revision in my state (i live 160 miles from mom), because it's in conflict witht he parenting plan. The attorney i have says there is tension between the parenting plan and the dvpo revision hearing (june 9th). Now mom is "absconding" the relationship. She is trying to force me to visit at her house so she can try to seduce me... .etc... .I just want to parent my little girl. The worst part is she's so cute and loveable that she gives mom a lot of narcissistic supply. She really doesn't enjoy parenting very much, but she has made being a "mother" her identity and views my parenting as a threat due to her all or nothing thinking. She saw how much my daughter and i love eachother, and that's when she threatened to kill me. She told me that I was trying to outshine her as a parent, when really I am just trying to be a good parent and provide daughter with a validating, nurtuting, and abuse-free safe haven at my house.

I am very concerned that the longer this drags out, and the more the mom monopolizes the relationship with a legally valid but ridiculous excuse about the out of state DVPO revision against her, the more daughter and I drift apart. Lawyer says very difficult to win custody from primary caregiver so best option is to share custody, but mom is so unstable and unpredicatable I don't see how it's ever going to work. I feel like the court is going to view this as a high conflict dispute between two warring parents, and award custody to mom. Even with a psych evaluation, she has plenty of negative advocates who will say amazing things about her because she surrounds herself with other mentally ill people that all have eachother's back etc... .in the meantime I fled the abuse, and have been isolated... .don't have a ton of witnesses, etc... .very sad story here.

Anything I can do? Any advice? I'm actually in group DBT therapy, and find it very helpful to deal with any "fleas" and symptoms of PTSD for enduring sexual/psychological/emotional abuse etc... .I actually contemplated letting the mom and kid come live with me, because I want to protect my daughter from further abuse, but counselor and dv advocate offer a rare warning of the abuse/manipulation I'm enduring regarding feelings for daughter... .etc... .I guess I'm really stuck between enduring the waiting period for the DVPO revision hearing, and dropping it so that she has no excuse not to follow the parenting plan. But i know she will come up with something else... .she's a pathological liar so impossible to know for sure what would happen. I have no idea if I will get the DVPO, but pretty doubtful it will protect my daughter. I really really love and want to help my daughter, so any advice or experience would be sincerely appreciated.

[stoic83]

Hi,

I had a child with a BPD woman who told me she was infertile and pinned me down to get pregnant. Afterwards she stalked and harassed me because I didn't want to be with her. I moved away because the phone, cyberharrassment, stalking was so severe that I couldn't function. I have been in counseling this entire time. I've had 2 LCSWs and a forensic psychologist. The forensic psychologist told me the woman has BPD and the behavior is sociopathic. He also told me I had no chance of custody. That if I tried, I would end up in jail or something bad would happen to me. In any case, I convinced the mom to let me take our daughter every other week. Towards the end of that period of time, she started to lose it... .and threatened to kill me after telling me to take our daughter away along with all of her things.

I filed for a DVPO with CPS involvement in her state, and me in washington. I had the temporary protective order for myself and my 2 year old daughter for 3 weeks. During the trial, she lied all over her declarations and painted me as an abuser... .saying I got ejected from the hospital, and from supervising her visit during the order. The judge believed her over me even though my attorney said I had a 95% chance of receiving the DVPO. It got dismissed and I was threatened to return my daughter or face an ex parte order saying I was absconding the relationship.

I returned my daughter to the mom. We signed a joint custody agreement with us having 50/50 and joint custody, but with her having "primary residence". 2 days later, she said she was moving away and taking my daughter and that my parenting time would have to be adjusted. I filed parental interference with an attorney. Shortly after, I revised the DVPO  because my dv advocates and attornies told me that the judge made the wrong decision.

Now I haven't been able to parent our daughter in 6 weeks, she is visibly distraught, mom is alienating her right in front of me, emotionally abusive to her. I am in tremendous pain, and my 2 year old daughter is as well. Even though I wasn't super involved in the first year half of her life (simply because I was refused a one on one relationship as mom was breast feeding/etc), we  have become really close in the last 3 months and I can tell how safe and secure my daughter feels with me.

The mom w/ BPD and i went to a counselor (against dv advocates advice) and the counselor told  us we needed to see a forensic psychologist who could document all of this, and that the issues of criminality, etc made this way over her head. I am so worried about going to court for custody, because she is so clever and manipulative. Even CPS worker told me I was "paranoid" that mom wasn't emotionally abusive at all, that we were both fighting over our daughter and that was the problem. Just before that she baited me in to an argument with a tape recorder in regard to her lying about something she put in the parenting plan. She didn't put what she said in to the parenting plan, but recorded me getting angry(which is somewhat rare, but also somewhat involuntary due to the psychological abuse I have sustained).

I have a therapist and dv advocate, two attornies, and a burnt out family. I am at my wit's end. I do not think I could win sole custody of my daughter, but the mom is telling me I have to drop the DVPO revision in my state (i live 160 miles from mom), because it's in conflict witht he parenting plan. The attorney i have says there is tension between the parenting plan and the dvpo revision hearing (june 9th). Now mom is "absconding" the relationship. She is trying to force me to visit at her house so she can try to seduce me... .etc... .I just want to parent my little girl. The worst part is she's so cute and loveable that she gives mom a lot of narcissistic supply. She really doesn't enjoy parenting very much, but she has made being a "mother" her identity and views my parenting as a threat due to her all or nothing thinking. She saw how much my daughter and i love eachother, and that's when she threatened to kill me. She told me that I was trying to outshine her as a parent, when really I am just trying to be a good parent and provide daughter with a validating, nurtuting, and abuse-free safe haven at my house.

I am very concerned that the longer this drags out, and the more the mom monopolizes the relationship with a legally valid but ridiculous excuse about the out of state DVPO revision against her, the more daughter and I drift apart. Lawyer says very difficult to win custody from primary caregiver so best option is to share custody, but mom is so unstable and unpredicatable I don't see how it's ever going to work. I feel like the court is going to view this as a high conflict dispute between two warring parents, and award custody to mom. Even with a psych evaluation, she has plenty of negative advocates who will say amazing things about her because she surrounds herself with other mentally ill people that all have eachother's back etc... .in the meantime I fled the abuse, and have been isolated... .don't have a ton of witnesses, etc... .very sad story here.

Anything I can do? Any advice? I'm actually in group DBT therapy, and find it very helpful to deal with any "fleas" and symptoms of PTSD for enduring sexual/psychological/emotional abuse etc... .I actually contemplated letting the mom and kid come live with me, because I want to protect my daughter from further abuse, but counselor and dv advocate offer a rare warning of the abuse/manipulation I'm enduring regarding feelings for daughter... .etc... .I guess I'm really stuck between enduring the waiting period for the DVPO revision hearing, and dropping it so that she has no excuse not to follow the parenting plan. But i know she will come up with something else... .she's a pathological liar so impossible to know for sure what would happen. I have no idea if I will get the DVPO, but pretty doubtful it will protect my daughter. I really really love and want to help my daughter, so any advice or experience would be sincerely appreciated.

[stoic83]

Hmm I'm thinking I should've posted this under family law.

[ForeverDad]

You said she was trying to manipulate things to get back close to you and resume intimacy (perhaps another child?) and it is good you're not agreeable to close contact again.

One thing courts are usually clear about is that if even only one party wants the adult relationship is over then they're supportive of it.  She's trying to mix parenting and adult contact together, probably to sidestep your boundaries and the court's orders.

The court will not force you to have extended contact with the mother.  Once the adult relationship is ended, it is only how the parenting is arranged.  The only way I could imagine her inserting herself back into your life without your consent (or weakening your boundaries) is her trying to make you be supervised and her be the one supervising you.  You ought to be able to nix that approach.

You said she recorded you.  Were you recording when she threatened to kill you?  You have to be careful when doing so.  In the past one stated objection to recordings was that they can be edited or started after some trigger event had caused a poor reaction.  But today so many devices are available that can record that it is getting more attention these days, if not in court then with the professionals around court.

One challenge you have is to behave so well that the court or others don't get the impression that you both have issues and they just chalk it up to overreactions and bickering.  That she immediately after the order decided to move and wanted to change the order is a lack of good faith in negotiations.  Court usually doesn't want to deal with the little stuff.  I believe most courts require significant time between order changes, such as a year maybe.  That she immediately wanted to change the parenting plan is telling.

[stoic83]

You said she was trying to manipulate things to get back close to you and resume intimacy (perhaps another child?) and it is good you're not agreeable to close contact again.

One thing courts are usually clear about is that if even only one party wants the adult relationship is over then they're supportive of it.  She's trying to mix parenting and adult contact together, probably to sidestep your boundaries and the court's orders.

The court will not force you to have extended contact with the mother.  Once the adult relationship is ended, it is only how the parenting is arranged.  The only way I could imagine her inserting herself back into your life without your consent (or weakening your boundaries) is her trying to make you be supervised and her be the one supervising you.  You ought to be able to nix that approach.

You said she recorded you.  Were you recording when she threatened to kill you?  You have to be careful when doing so.  In the past one stated objection to recordings was that they can be edited or started after some trigger event had caused a poor reaction.  But today so many devices are available that can record that it is getting more attention these days, if not in court then with the professionals around court.

One challenge you have is to behave so well that the court or others don't get the impression that you both have issues and they just chalk it up to overreactions and bickering.  That she immediately after the order decided to move and wanted to change the order is a lack of good faith in negotiations.  Court usually doesn't want to deal with the little stuff.  I believe most courts require significant time between order changes, such as a year maybe.  That she immediately wanted to change the parenting plan is telling.

Right, well it's apparent. So she either has to follow the parenting plan, or face contempt. She hasn't been following the parenting plan for 6 weeks, and claimed it's because of the DVPO. I decided to drop the revision for DVPO in washington, as FLA says that if then she doesn't follow the parenting plan, we can file contempt charges. I don't engage in recording as I believe it's underhanded, and because anytime I've tried to catch her in anything it's backfired. I'd be afraid that she'd suspect it, honestly she has me in the street smarts department 100-1. Since i dropped the out of state PO, she now has no excuse not to follow the parenting plan. She did file for a modification, saying i should have a few days of supervised visits at her home. We have 50/50 joint custody right now. She did threaten to violent harm any future partner that I have on the phone the other day. She doesn't make threats of violence in email or text message. She does try to make excuses to close contact. She always touches me inappropriately or sits right on top of me. It's really sick, because the DVPO included her sexually abusing me. You would think that someone would back off after something like that... .

To be honest I don't feel safe sharing custody with her, but I don't believe that I have enough evidence. FL attorney tells me that if this goes before the judge that he will just want a custody evaluation as he won't order joint custody if the parents aren't getting along. So I'm in a pickle to where I can't really stand up for myself legally as it will just rock the boat and force an evaluation of which I only have 40-60 percent chance of winning. Which would really be the best situation for my daughter, but if I lost then I would hardly have any "parenting time" at all which would obviously be very bad as mom engages in push/pull, splitting, parentification, alienation right in front of me.

Of course, I can't bring any of this up because then it looks like I'm trying to "build a case" against her. I'm really really disheartened by this. I am such a straight forward person. The family court way of posturing and etc etc... .is just way too political for me. Part of me just wants to get it over and do the custody evaluation. I know she will be diagnosed with something. It's just a risk to the 50/50, and FL attorney probably thinks that's an insanely good deal for an unmarried father that left town. Not to risk the 50/50 for a 40-60% chance at 80/20 or 90/10. What do you think ForeverDad? I love my daughter and she loves me. It's just sharing custody with this woman (who i knew for 6 weeks prior to her pregnancy) is a nightmare. I have spent 3 years try to deal with this person and keep things out of court, and I am worn out. It just always feels no-win. She is almost animalistic in regard to her possessive feelings over our daughter. I just am so much more humanistic about things. Maybe when two people are so different e.g. her behavior is so immoral and her parenting style so authoriatarian that it's hard to imagine daughter or myself ever having a peaceful life sharing custody with her. I almost want to just go away, because she's so possesive and violent feelings towards me. Whenever I am a good parent she views it as a threat and it just feels impossible. And I can't get any help with it because it happens in private or on the phone. I really don't feel safe parenting our daughter with her on the other side of things, which is why I filed the DVPo in the first place.

I've reached out to a ton of resources and I get a ton of advice. Ultimately I need a different perspective to get through all this. I also want to resume some level of normalcy in my own life. I had daycare setup for my daughter and now that is ruined. I had to fight to get part time daycare. Now since mom has been withholding her from me for over a month and a half I feel a separation from daughter. She still is just enthusiastic about me, (and traumatized when I leave since she was staying with me for so long), but I just feel like it's hard to maintain a secure attachment to my daughter with all of this going on. I'm supposed to take her next friday, but who knows what mom will decide between now and then.

[ForeverDad]

My time here if brief these days but I will observe that playing defense (as in competitive sports) is a losing strategy.  Yes, protecting your boundaries and holding to the status quo may work but if she is still continuing to attack your parenting, such as wanting you limited to supervised time in her presence, then you may decide the pro-active approach is the only way forward.  What would be the downside?

Everyone has issues.  I recall my CE observing that I was over scrupulous by putting a yellow stick-em on every distortion or lie made by my ex in son's therapy records.  Sounded bad but by the time the CE was complete his recommendation was solidly in dad's favor.  The down side is that he wanted us to try Shared Parenting first "but if it fails then Father should have custody".  It wasn't long before I was back in court reporting SP had failed.  After a lengthy Change of Circumstances process, I did get custody.

So a long term challenge for you will be to ascertain what are your weaknesses or perceptions or personality traits or life approaches that might impact a Custody Evaluator?  Good that you have counselors, they will help you keep your eyes on your equilibrium and how you present yourself.

She will try to make you look worse than her.  One item the CE should observe is how she seeks contact with you with the excuse of parenting, that won't make sense if she's claiming you're the bad guy.  You want to be seen as a relatively normal parent (more or less) seeking to parent in contrast to her poor behaviors, whatever they may be.

[stoic83]

My time here if brief these days but I will observe that playing defense (as in competitive sports) is a losing strategy.  Yes, protecting your boundaries and holding to the status quo may work but if she is still continuing to attack your parenting, such as wanting you limited to supervised time in her presence, then you may decide the pro-active approach is the only way forward.  What would be the downside?

Everyone has issues.  I recall my CE observing that I was over scrupulous by putting a yellow stick-em on every distortion or lie made by my ex in son's therapy records.  Sounded bad but by the time the CE was complete his recommendation was solidly in dad's favor.  The down side is that he wanted us to try Shared Parenting first "but if it fails then Father should have custody".  It wasn't long before I was back in court reporting SP had failed.  After a lengthy Change of Circumstances process, I did get custody.

So a long term challenge for you will be to ascertain what are your weaknesses or perceptions or personality traits or life approaches that might impact a Custody Evaluator?  Good that you have counselors, they will help you keep your eyes on your equilibrium and how you present yourself.

She will try to make you look worse than her.  One item the CE should observe is how she seeks contact with you with the excuse of parenting, that won't make sense if she's claiming you're the bad guy.  You want to be seen as a relatively normal parent (more or less) seeking to parent in contrast to her poor behaviors, whatever they may be.

I suppose my main weakness is that initially I was more concerned about myself and the abusive nature of her pregnancy (deception combined with coercion) and all the legal jargon about child support. Since I felt I was raped and then I was stalked out of town, i just didn't want to be involved at all. DV advocates told me the child would be used as a weapon to hurt me. It makes me look like the stereotypical man who doesn't want to pay child support. Other than that, I am far ahead of her in terms of every other factor of life. She breastfed, our daughter is 2. So her "tender age" definitely plays a factor in this and we only shared custody for 3 months before I had to file the PO. perhaps that's why the attorney recommends doing the joint custody for a while, to build up my time with daughter so that there really is no "primary caregiver" in the court's eyes.

Other than that, the strengths I have outweigh hers by 100-1. I was a teacher of young children. I have two degrees from a top 50 university. She has no degree. My family is healthy and educated. Her family is a sociopathic mess. My ability to provide is 3 times greater at least. I have a therapist, a dv advocate and group therapy she has nothing. She is unemployed and about to lose her apartment and go move in to a 3 bedroom house with 5 other people... .etc... Our daughter is extremely bonded to me. I found an amazing part time daycare for her. The problem is the CE takes too long. We live far away and I'm worried the judge won't even allow this in a temporary situation. I'm really stuck between a rock and a hard place.