Six words I wish I could forget

[BeagleGirl]

"I know how you can be"

Tonight my dad broached the subject of my separation from my BPDh more fully.  I was kind of thinking I was on a bit safer ground after his comment on Tuesday that my happiness is important.  I sensed there was a "but" somewhere nearby, and it came tonight.

He started by asking why I thought leaving my BPDh would make me happy.  I tried to explain, without sharing details of what has been going on, why I was already happier living apart from my husband; how getting away from the constant "stress and drama" (I tried to avoid the term "abuse" has enabled me to gain clarity about who I am and resulted in a renewed relationship with God and being able to be a better mother and friend.

Next topic - How well BPDh and I hid the fact that we were having problems.  I tried reminding him that he lives 2000 miles away and I have not wanted to share my hurts with him or my mom because BPDh is as much a son to them as I am a daughter to them.  He doesn't understand how we could have hidden the problems in our relationship in the times we were together around him and my mom (usually once or twice a year for a week or two).  I hear that as "I don't believe the problems you are implying have been there all along really were", but remember that I shouldn't be putting words into his mouth.

Next topic - There are two sides to every story.  This is where the statement above was made.  He doesn't believe that all the fault lies with BPDh and "I know how you can be". 

I don't know when I have been so hurt by so few words.  Part of me wants to defend myself (not to him, but in the privacy of the room where I now sit crying).  Most of me just wants to give up and go back to my BPDh and maybe try to be something better than what my dad believes me to be.

Next topic - How much I am hurting his grandsons through my selfish actions (moving out).  I gave a lame attempt at saying "but what am I doing to them if I let them think it's okay for a man to treat his wife the way BPDh has treated me", but now we're back to how well BPDh and I have hidden our problems.  I hear "If your mom and I didn't know about these issues you say have been going on for so long, then I'm pretty sure your boys haven't seen anything out of the ordinary".

So I'm sitting here questioning everything.  It's probably a good thing I'm 2000 miles away from BPDh, because I really feel like saying "I'm sorry for everything I have done to hurt you and cause you to react in ways that I have blamed you for.  Do what you want to me."

[GaGrl]

You are falling into your dad's FOG. It's easy to do!

Your own reality defines what has happened all those years. Your parents weren't there, and when they did observe your marriage, it was through their own filter.

What do you believe your children do know about the behaviors that led to your leaving?

[formflier]

 
Dad... .I appreciate your support.  Please pray for wisdom as I try to heal my part in my marriage and make decisions for my future.

That's it... .

Many of us have poor boundaries... .that's how... .in many ways... .we got into the mess we are in.

You want your Dad to think and believe certain things.  You are crossing boundaries to do so.

Your Dad wants you to think and believe certain things.  He is crossing boundaries to do so.

Both of you are not defending boundaries you should be defending.

     

FF

[RomanticFool]

Hi BeagleGirl,

Welcome to the sanity board! I am sorry you are experiencing such pain at the moment. As Formflier has said above boundaries are very important. So what I am writing here, you may feel is none of your parents' business. However, I do have some questions based on your post.
 

I tried to explain, without sharing details of what has been going on, why I was already happier living apart from my husband; how getting away from the constant "stress and drama" (I tried to avoid the term "abuse"

Why not tell your father what happened? Do you feel shame around the abuse? Do you think your father won't believe you? Are they the kind of parents to sweep problems under the carpet?

has enabled me to gain clarity about who I am and resulted in a renewed relationship with God and being able to be a better mother and friend.

Was religion a factor in your marriage? Are your children more stable in your new environment do you feel? Finding yourself is very important.

Next topic - How well BPDh and I hid the fact that we were having problems.  I tried reminding him that he lives 2000 miles away and I have not wanted to share my hurts with him or my mom because BPDh is as much a son to them as I am a daughter to them.  He doesn't understand how we could have hidden the problems in our relationship in the times we were together around him and my mom (usually once or twice a year for a week or two).  I hear that as "I don't believe the problems you are implying have been there all along really were", but remember that I shouldn't be putting words into his mouth.

Your husband is not their son. You are their daughter. It sounds to me like your parents are trying to live vicariously through this idea of 'a perfect relationship' to bolster their own self esteem. Sounds to me like they may have issues in their own marriage? How does your father treat your mother?

People often hide problems when they go to stay with friends or family, especially if children are involved. It is called putting a brave face on things. Even though your father has doubts you still choose not to tell him about the abuse. Do you trust him? It sounds to me like he may not be the kind of father who validates his daughter's emotions. How was your childhood?

Next topic - There are two sides to every story.  This is where the statement above was made.  He doesn't believe that all the fault lies with BPDh and "I know how you can be".  

Yes, there are two sides to every story - and unfortunately he doesn't want to believe that his son-in-law is capable of abuse. Why does he hold him in such high esteem?

"I know how you can be" is code for your father does not know how to deal with your emotional life. This says far more about him than you.

I don't know when I have been so hurt by so few words.  Part of me wants to defend myself (not to him, but in the privacy of the room where I now sit crying).  Most of me just wants to give up and go back to my BPDh and maybe try to be something better than what my dad believes me to be.

I am sorry for your pain. A parent's lack of understanding can be excruciating. My father spent his life undermining and criticising me. It was really projection because he hated himself. Whatever self esteem issues they have by you being with your husband as 'the perfect family' blow them off! They don't have to live with abuse - and neither do you. Change is painful but you have had the courage to do the hard part and keep yourself and your children safe.

Next topic - How much I am hurting his grandsons through my selfish actions (moving out).  I gave a lame attempt at saying "but what am I doing to them if I let them think it's okay for a man to treat his wife the way BPDh has treated me", but now we're back to how well BPDh and I have hidden our problems.  I hear "If your mom and I didn't know about these issues you say have been going on for so long, then I'm pretty sure your boys haven't seen anything out of the ordinary".

Your duty is not to your parents but to your children. You are their mother and know what is best for them. I go back to my point above about why you haven't told your father about the abuse. I'm not saying you should, I'm just wondering why you don't feel it is safe to tell him.

So I'm sitting here questioning everything.  It's probably a good thing I'm 2000 miles away from BPDh, because I really feel like saying "I'm sorry for everything I have done to hurt you and cause you to react in ways that I have blamed you for.  :)o what you want to me."

Don't do that. Give yourself time to decide how you feel. With distance everything will become clearer. The abuse we receive from our BPD partners can leave us feeling guilt and shame.

I encourage you to read the suggested literature on this board and discover more about BPD and how it relates to your situation. Also examine yourself and why you got involved in a relationship with somebody who has these issues.

It seems to me that your own father devalues your opinions so that could be one reason right there. It is said that the father is the template for a woman's life partner choices. Do you feel that is true in your case?

As we get older we can also break from the unhealthy attachments to our parents. You no longer have to please them. Your duty now is to your children.

Stay close to this board. Members are here to help you. Keep posting and you will get the help you need.

[Notwendy]

I'd be crying too if my father said that to me.

First- the truth is that issues in a relationship involve both people. Neither of you are blameless. However you can still assess the situation and make the best decision for you. Your father doesn't see the whole picture. Especially with BPD where the issues are with the most intimate partner. He sees the public persona of your H. But he raised you and sees all of you- so he may not see your Hs part in this.

You've grown up, but he may see you as the teen you once were. And you know how teens are.

As an adult you may see your parents limitations. Daddies are heros to their daughters but your Dad may not be able to be as empathetic or supportive as you wished he was. He may have his own issues. This may influence his perspective. Your parents may have some narcissistic traits and be thinking of you leave your H it will appear that something is wrong with them. This isn't true but they may think that. Sometimes parents see their children as extensions of themselves- but you are a separate person.

He is older and wiser and has experienced marital issues and so has a different perspective- but it isn't his marriage.

My own parents were not able to be emotionally supportive of me. This doesn't negate the good things my father did for me. He was my hero. He was also a human being who was dealing with his own relationship with my BPD mother. I know he did the best he could do. I also know he said things to me that made me cry. Your father is doing what he thinks is best- but you are not him.

[formflier]

     

When there are deep... raw wounds... .it is very easy to confuse... .conflate ... .basically get all twisted up with who we are "mad at" or where the focus of our emotions should be.

I try to keep driving back to the big picture.   And another reason for boundaries.  

There have been some relatively new and scary diagnoses that many of the adults are processing in their own way.  That... in and of itself... would be enough to put people on edge.  Yet, we know from BG's story there is much more

Keep first things first.  Spend time with your Dad and be deliberate about creating good memories.  Be deliberate about KINDLY enforcing boundaries and giving reassurances.

":)ad... .I'm sure you would agree that my marriage is important.  We have a wise minister involved and trained counselors.  I would appreciate your prayers in this difficult time."

Then... focus on happier memories.  Take a walk... .go out for a milk shake... help him in the garden.  

I understand that time is limited.  I understand there are important conversations you wish to have.  They may not happen.  Forcing things like that rarely goes well.

Make the most of your time together... .by spending time together.  Let the conversations come that come and gently deflect ones that go too far.

"I know how you can be" is code for your father does not know how to deal with your emotional life. This says far more about him than you.
 


Your duty is not to your parents but to your children.

  Your duty now is to your children.

When I read this I had a different reaction.  I believe I know my children.  I believe I can predict what traits their mates will likely find endearing and which traits will likely cause some consternation... or worse.

"I know how they can be... ."  I know this because I'm their father and it's my job to "know how they can be".

BG I would really push you to "put on a different lens", assume the best about what you father said.

Two ways to go with this.

1.  My preference is that you gently used boundaries.  I think there is too much hurt for "honest feedback" at this point.

or

2.  Ask him for details on "how you can be".  

If you are going to hold this against him, and it appears you are.  Then respect him enough to ask for clarity, so there are no assumptions

Proverbs 18:13  To answer before listening—that is folly and shame.  

Have you really listened to what you day intends you to understand?

Again... .for clarity.  I suggest you pick option 1 and wait for a better day with less other hurts to "understand this".  

If you can't get yourself to that place, then I think you need to do option 2.

     
FF

[formflier]

I'd be crying too if my father said that to me.

And I can understand why anyone would... .I really can.  Yet I believe what was said was so vague and I believe emotions are already heightened enough that a statement like that can be said wrong and could be heard wrong.

To be clear, if I was advising any Dad, I would never... ever... suggest that a phrase like that be used.

Personally, "Hey BG... .can I share some of my thoughts about areas where it appears you are struggling"

This assumes pleasant... .empathetic conversation up to this point.

As Notwendy has said, not all parents have the skills or ability to provide empathy.  

 

FF

[Grey Kitty]

I can hardly imagine how much hearing that kind of thing from a parent I was going to for support would hurt me.

Given your and your husband's history with your father, and your relationship with him, and especially given what he's said about your separation already, you have very good reason to keep a bit of emotional distance from him. Because you are likely to get hurt and set back, instead of supported, at a difficult time where you desperately need support. You don't need judgement. You don't need FOG.

Navigating your r/s with him, figuring out how much distance you need/want is tough, and clearly your choice. That said, there's something in here which seems like an unhealthy middle ground here:

I tried to explain, without sharing details of what has been going on, why I was already happier living apart from my husband; how getting away from the constant "stress and drama" (I tried to avoid the term "abuse") has enabled me to gain clarity about who I am and resulted in a renewed relationship with God and being able to be a better mother and friend.

You are trying to get his support... .and at the same time, avoiding telling him why you need it so badly. You seem afraid to tell him how badly you were treated and for how long.

I'm sure you have reasons not to tell him about the abuse, how bad things were at home, and how living with your H destroyed your sense of who you were, of the person you wanted to be, and left you feeling like a hollow shell of yourself. Perhaps he wouldn't believe you. Or perhaps he would blame you ("I know how you can be"

Still... .I have trouble seeing how you can get that kind of support from him without being vulnerable like this.

You may need to give up looking for support from him in your separation and possible divorce. As FF said, not all parents have the skills to provide empathy. (I know mine are rather limited that way.)

Oh yeah... .one other thought for you on the cause of your separation: The end doesn't have to be "His fault" or "Your fault". It isn't required to assess a percentage of the blame to each of you. Without assigning blame, you can say "The two of us aren't capable of being together without destroying me."

I look at the end of my marriage and what led up to it. Both of us had flaws. Both of us made mistakes. Both of us hurt the other. There isn't a scale able to measure them against each other and make a final reckoning about it in this world. (My belief is that my wife holds the larger share; I honestly don't know what she believes.) What is certain is we cannot make it work together today. (In our case, neither is still trying)

I mention this because any discussion/debate with your father as to whether you or BPDh are to blame is completely toxic, and the only outcomes are confusing you and harming your r/s with your father, which doesn't sound like it has many years left in it.

Talking with him about whether you can reconcile, or what it would take for you to feel safe and willing to reconcile is a different thing. I see reasons to be cautious about it, given the agenda you know he has... .but at least this isn't 100% toxic to talk about.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey BG, Sounds like you went into a negative spiral after a heavy dose of F-O-G from your father.  You have previously described his attempts to twist your arm and manipulate you in order to get you to return to your BPDh.  Needless to say, it hurts when a parent is unable to be supportive, but at the end of the day you don't need his approval to be worthy and complete all by yourself.

I suggest getting back to center and looking outward at all the different possible paths before you.  Only you know what is the right path for you, not your father.  Strive to be authentic.

New growth is painful, but leads to greater happiness.  Hang in there.

LuckyJim

[formflier]

I'm sure you have reasons not to tell him about the abuse, how bad things were at home, and how living with your H destroyed your sense of who you were, of the person you wanted to be, and left you feeling like a hollow shell of yourself. Perhaps he wouldn't believe you. Or perhaps he would blame you ("I know how you can be"
 

Perhaps... perhaps... .if you choose to open yourself up to listen more to your father, it would be appropriate to share your truth... .all of it... .first.

I still recommend boundaries and distance, but it seems unfair to both you and your father, IF you are going to listen to his opinions about your marital relationship to allow him to form those opinions with incomplete information

Seriously.

I have no doubt that all of my kids would "fight" with their future spouses, will say things they regret... etc etc.

I do doubt and I hope they would never abuse anyone or allow themselves to be abused. 

There is such a huge difference in a "regular" marital fight and the abuse, lack of repentance, scorched earth type of fighting that many of us have experienced. 

Perhaps your father has never experienced that and simply has no frame of reference to even begin to imagine this.

     

FF

[formflier]

BG,

If you remember, I had been purposeful about keeping details of my marital troubles from my parents.  And I lived with them for several months during a TS.

When it came time to reveal some of it, I called my Dad and asked him to come see it for himself.

He was shocked... .but reacted really well.  I certainly can't quote what he said, but he did remark it was hard to believe people would behave that way.  A time or two sense then he has asked how often things that like happen.  

I've answered and broadly told him how I am deliberate about dealing with things with tools.

There are times that he has taken me out to eat or offered support where I've thought he perceived something amiss, yet didn't ask.  I didn't offer.  I simply enjoyed time with my Dad.



FF

[DearHusband]

Okay from the insensitive male perspective, here goes.

BG,

Your father has mostly only seen the good side of BPDh by virtue of never having lived with him. He has seen both sides of you. I believe from what I have read in your posts that he has taught you to put other's needs first (it looks like you aren't to him, to be loyal (you had an affair), and to not give up (it may look like you are doing this to him).

For almost your entire marriage, he has only seen harmony inn your relationship with your husband and now his daughter is going against everything he taught her and he doesn't understand why and she won't dish on her husband to the point that makes him understand. It all seems like it's you. He doesn't have the insight because you haven't shared it with him. He doesn't rally understand how bad it is because you haven't shared it with him. At least not in the detail required.

I'm not advocating that you start to go into the kind of detail that would make him understand, because that is a one way street, but if you don't he's never going to understand. You may need to accept that.

Perhaps you can just share how much you want him to be proud of you and how you tried so hard for so long to live according to the principles you were taught and you never shared with him how things were really like because you weren't done trying and didn't want him to worry.

Hugs.

DH

[Lalathegreat]

This cut me - I relate. I need to get to my computer so that I can type properly. In the meantime I wanted to send a hug... .

[Lalathegreat]

Ok, I'm back... .and I really have to preface this by saying that I have no ACTUAL advice. But I still feel compelled to give some sort of reach.

I was told "I know how you can be" my entire life. And I believe sincerely that there are no more hurtful words on this planet. To me it says: "I do not trust you to know what is best here." The specific meaning changes with circumstance, but that is the general gist. The sense that you cannot be trusted to have done the "right" thing in any given situation. It is such a backhanded way to invalidate. "I understand how you are feeling BUT I also know how you can be... ." Uh huh. Been there, heard that, cried enough to soak the t-shirt.

I am so sorry. All I can say is that only YOU can know what is right for you in your relationship. And you are right - you did what we all do and protected everyone else enough from the reality that they CANNOT POSSIBLY KNOW the totality of circumstances. Add in the distance and the relationship that your Dad has with your pwBPD and it becomes an extremely sensitive, volatile situation. Trust in yourself. You have not taken this situation lightly, these actions were not taken on a whim. This is the result of YEARS of abuse and trauma. You are taking the steps you need to take for the first time in a long time to make sure that YOU are taken care of, and I hope that you will continue to do so.

 

 I will be thinking about you. Hang in there.

[dealingwithit]

If you feel you have done the best with the crappy situation you've been dealt, then be kind to yourself. You are an adult and can make your own choices. I'm sure you have given your SO many, many chances. Do what you feel is right in your gut.

[Lucky Jim]

Like what you're sayin', dealingwithit.  Thanks, LJ

[formflier]

I was told "I know how you can be" my entire life. 

BG,

Is this phrase a new one for your Dad to use?

How are you doing?

FF

[BeagleGirl]

Last week was definitely hard.  I've been "laying low", praying and waiting.  I'm going through another one of those times when I feel very alone in my pain, so I'm trying to spend less time wishing for better friend/family support and more time turning to God.

As to whether "I know how you can be" is a new phrase... .I guess it is the first time it's been verbalized that way.  My dad used to throw out "You're just like your mother" when I was a teenager.  I finally threw back "Well she says I'm just like you".  Neither comparison was meant as a compliment. 

I've thought a lot about what my dad said - while trying to not confound it with everything else.  Part of me wants to get more details on what he sees in me that he feels has damaged my marriage and my husband.  Part of me realizes that he really doesn't know me anymore.  It was not lost on me that he book-ended his comment about knowing how I can be with comments about not understanding how he had no idea that my marriage wasn't perfect. 
I sympathize with the hurt and shock of finding out about my affair, 3 miscarriages, and my separation from my husband all in the space of a few months (though the actual events spanned 3 years).  At the same time, I realize that my dad may think he knows me, but if he could miss seeing all of those things unfolding, how can he also know me well enough to know what the dynamics of my marriage have been and what my role has been.
So part of my coping mechanism has been to understand that, while my dad may have some insight that I may eventually seek into how my behavior has impacted my husband and marriage, my dad doesn't really know me anymore.
There's another, bigger part of me that wants to hear from my dad say "I know how you can be" from a true understanding of who I am now.  I want him to know how I can be an amazing mother, daughter, friend, employee, and so much more.  I want him to know how I can be strong and forgiving, loving and self sufficient, flawed and compassionate as only those who have been forgiven much can be.  I don't know if that is possible.  I don't know if he can see beyond the headstrong girl who left home at 18 and built a life so far away from him.  I don't know if he can see beyond the adulteress I revealed myself to be.  I don't know if he can see beyond the daughter who has "abandoned" his son in law and grandchildren in search of "happiness".  All I can do is pray that he will, and rest in knowing that my Heavenly Father sees me as I am, even if my earthly father doesn't.
That's not to say that I am discarding the potential to learn from what my dad said.  I know that the message he wanted me to hear was that I have things in my life that I need to work on.  He's right.  I just don't know that I am going to be able to hear about those areas from him, nor do I know that he has an accurate viewpoint to point them out from.  I've decided to open myself up more to God, a few trusted friends, and my therapist for feedback on what I have done/am doing that is harmful to my husband, my children and myself.  I have an appointment with my therapist tomorrow, and I am hoping to be able to hear the truth spoken in love.
BG

[formflier]

Quick reaction: 

Open yourself up to your friends to have and enjoy a friendship.  Be deliberate about a boundary so that your friends stay friends and don't become therapists... .or marriage evaluators.

If you do choose to ask your friends for help, I would not do it in an open ended way.

Perhaps find areas your T is having you look at and then (for example)... .ask your friends.

":)o you find that I speak clearly and directly to a problem or do I seem to "hint around"?

Apply that question to them... .and then ask for their feedback for this issue in what they have observed in your marriage.

Expect them to want to think about the question for a day or two before answering.

I would advise staying away from "What did I do wrong in my marriage?"   way to open ended... .IMO for a friend. 

more later...

FF

[Grey Kitty]

I've decided to open myself up more to God, a few trusted friends, and my therapist for feedback on what I have done/am doing that is harmful to my husband, my children and myself.

Your father isn't on that list.

He's pretty clearly failed to earn a place there or actively done and said things to remove himself from the list.

  I know that hurts. I know you want more from him.

And you will be more hurt if you allow yourself to trust what he will say to you about your marriage.

The best you can do with him is focus your energy on the good parts of your relationship with him, the things you can trust him to do, and the things you want to do with or for him.

[formflier]

It's been a while since I've given my "three legged stool" analogy.

Honestly... .someone else pointed it out to me first... .so... it's really not "mine".  It has worked well for me.

Remove one leg... .and stool flops over.  All three there... .and there can be stability, even with a raging BPDish affected r/s.

Leg 1:  BPD family.  A place that understands, anonymous.  We can be "unfiltered" and realize that people "get" and believe what we say.

Leg 2:  A trusted T.  There is so much nuance that can't be handled on the web with just text.  A good T is gold.

Leg 3:  A good group of friends where BPD is not discussed.  I call this a foot in the "normal" world.  Keeps you grounded.  Note:  You would trust these people with BPD secrets, but rarely do so.

Thoughts?


FF

[BeagleGirl]

I like the 3 legged stool analogy.  I'd say that I've felt the loss of the third leg lately.  Everyone is busy and/or dealing with their own issues and I've had enough "I don't have time for you right now" messages from my friends lately that I've been feeling rather lonely and "unbalanced".  I'm trying to take the opportunity to lean more on God, but it's still been a painful time.

You are right about the value of a good T.  I had a session today and it has given me a lot to think about.  The "aha moment" for today was realizing that I tend to equate approval with love, especially where my dad is concerned.  I shared with my T that the times when I knew my dad loved me were when I would overhear him bragging on me to others.  She asked "Is that love or pride?"  My response "I don't know that I know the difference".

So I tend to chase after "love" by doing more and trying to BE more.  Disappointment and disapproval feel like loss of love.  Silence/abandonment feel like lack of love.  This is probably something I learned as a child and have carried over to my marriage and other relationships, as well as my view of God.  I can see where I tend to believe and behave according to the "performance based love" paradigm.  If I'm not feeling loved, I feel like I must not be doing enough.  If I've done all I can do and still haven't achieved the love, then I must not BE enough.  I guess that's why my dad's comment struck so deep.

My T spent some time talking with me about how my dad has "failed me".  I don't know why, but that is about as hard to own as the idea that my husband has "abused me".  She also talked with me about the magical thinking I still fall into that says "If I just find the right words/do the right things... .".  The verdict is that I need to continue waiting and learning; that God is trying to teach me about the nature of love and until I complete this lesson I am almost certainly going to go on repeating the patterns I've established with my dad, my husband, and any other men I look to for love. 

On the plus(?) side, I have gotten back to a level of confidence about the "rightness" of moving forward with a legal separation.  I called and booked an appointment with a mediator in a little over 2 weeks. That gives BPDh time to prepare and I will be staying busy with the vacation my boys and I start tomorrow morning and the work trips I have stacked up after that.

BG

The good thing that

[formflier]

So I tend to chase after "love" by doing more and trying to BE more.  Disappointment and disapproval feel like loss of love.  Silence/abandonment feel like lack of love.  

This is/was me.  I was generally ok with "alone" or "silent" time, although a few times when I got the "I'm not talking to you because... ."... .it would hurt more, because I wanted to "explain" why their "because" was inaccurate.

On the love language thing... .I'm an "acts of service" guy... .bigtime.

BeagleGirl,

One of the reasons I have "pushed" some ideas is because I see a HUGE similarity in our thinking patterns.

So... .two weeks until appointment with mediator.

I've got a FF challenge for you in those two weeks.  I would challenge you to get another session with a T and focus on your reluctance to offer (or accept your husbands offer) of a TS.  My understanding of several of the concerns that you have (completely valid concerns by the way) is that they can be handled with wise and proper "structure" of the TS.

I would think there should be some broad principles written down... .primarily that this process is not a guarantee... .it's not a transaction... .it's not a checklist.

From what I understand of your husbands need to change (especially from a Christian point of view) is that if he is not willing to "go down that path", of loving, putting out effort, without any guarantee of a return... .then that really frames one of his big "issues", perhaps his number 1 issue.

From a Christian perspective I don't think you are "called" to convince him of this, but I am convinced that you are "called" to help him face his issues (give him the chance).

In other words, wisely do you part and offer the TS and the "get out of the way" and let the Holy Spirit, counselors, pastors and others attempt to convict him to repent and change... .or not.  Take his excuse of "she won't xyz... ." off the table.

Judgmental FF statement:  Sadly, my prediction is that he will likely not change... .and the result of the TS is giving you MORE peace to move forward separately.  My prediction of failure does not in anyway change my opinion that you should try.

Thoughts?

FF