He is Lying to the Court and Counselors...what do I do?

[Eve2017]

I am dealing with an incredibly smart uBPD/uNPD who is is lying and manipulating like crazy since I served him a DVTRO and Dissolution papers in April. We have 3 children and the abuse has been escalating towards them for a few years (as well as me). The TRO hearing was continued and his response statement literally denied every single incident of abuse towards the children and I.  Yesterday we met for 1 hour each with a court appointed counselor who will make a recommendation to the Judge about custody/visitation. This is considered "very influential." I explained all the abuse and concerns I had to her as calmly as possible. He came in and denied again, every single thing I said and had a very different version of each story. He says I am coaching and influencing our 12 year old daughter to say the things about his abuse towards her and told the counselor I have "Major Depressive Disorder."

What was devastating to me is that after the counselor spoke to him she told me, "I usually know which way I'm leaning and what to recommend to the Judge by now, but in this case I have NO IDEA." I just couldn't believe my ears. I begged her to talk to my daughter (which she did not want to do since my daughter is suffering severe depression from the years of abuse at his hands). My other two kids are too young. CPS is also involved and she will speak to them. The CPS Social Worker told me my husband is also denying every single thing and has very opposite versions of every story my daughter told them.

My sense is that no one can believe that someone could lie this much - and so when he blames us of making things up to crush him in court, he is getting sympathy and real consideration.  He plays the victim role very well and his lies are very believable/persuasive because it's what he's good at. He launched a smear campaign on my daughter and I a few years ago and his friends/family all think I'm terrible so he is getting financial support from them for the legal process.

I am trying not to panic but I do not know how to get people in this case to see that he is a charming but pathological liar that is a danger to our children. I'm so scared after this hearing yesterday to see how convincing he was to the counselor!

Any advice?  Experience? Help?

[ForeverDad]

What documentation do you have?  One problem with making (or responding to) allegations is that either party can make 'unsubstantiated' claims or counterclaims.  Have there been outside witnesses to his behaviors?  Do you have recordings to disprove any of his defenses?  You don't have to disprove everything, rather, enough to weaken his credibility.

While mothers often can get a default preference in abuse claims, it's not a given.  But I've concluded some courts would rather issue a protective order rather than deny a petition and then have the case blow up in the news.

Is your daughter in counseling?  Courts like counseling.  The key is to get an experienced counselor with a solid reputation, not one who can be fooled or conned.

[Eve2017]

Thanks for your response ForeverDad. My documentation is mostly my writings... .my record of events (some from 2016 and the first few months of 2017) plus some emails I sent him. He NEVER wrote me back and just avoided all communications outside of yelling/raging verbally about anything that was difficult. However, while his family (mom/sister) have witnessed his behaviors, they merely support him in all things. His best friend has witnessed some concerning behaviors and will have a statement about it though it is not to the extreme I've seen. I did make some recordings of his rages by leaving a taping device out but since I did not get his permission, my state won't allow them.

My daughter is in counseling and that is helping her out but they don't want to compromise that relationship by having the counselor testify. However, she has agreed to see a separate psychologist that will do a limited "clinical assessment" and report back to the court, I'm not sure if that will carry a lot of weight. Strangely a friend taped her describing some of the abuses she suffered with a question/answer but my attorney said she was so quick and articulate that her responses sounded a little rehearsed (it absolutely was not and I was unaware of some of the incidents she talked about- she's just very bright and speaks well - which was part of why she was always being scapegoated by him).

My ex says to everyone that I am getting my daughter to lie - and we're just trying to hurt him in court. It's so sad - if anything I did not take my daughter's concerns seriously enough and even discouraged her from sharing things because I felt trapped - there was nothing I could do to stop him and when I tried he would punish us even worse and so we went silent for the past few years. I am really processing anger towards myself in all this and want so badly to finally redeem the situation and get justice for my children but now it feels like his charm and cool and is winning the day... .he is so amazing at being a persecuted victim.

[HopefulDad]

Eve, imagine I'm a counselor.  I don't know you just like the counselor doesn't know you.  I read your original post and while it's passionate, I honestly have no idea if you're telling the truth or lying.  The counselor either needs a lot more time with the both of you to start recognizing patterns of bullfeces or needs corroborating evidence like interviews with the kids and other family, friends, teachers, etc... .basically the stuff of custody evaluations. 

[ForeverDad]

I agree more time with an experienced professional will make the lies and half truths less credible.

I recall when my Ex wanted our son to speak to the court.  It wasn't typical court testimony with all parties present.  It was 'in camera' with the magistrate and GAL (son's lawyer, Guardian ad Litem).  We had been in and out of the court for years, since he was 3 years old.  By then he was 11 years old and I had full custody for the prior 2 years and was then seeking majority time.  I gather nothing too direct was asked of him.  But magistrate did write that son was guarded when discussing mother but more relaxed when discussing father, me.

Does your daughter have a GAL, Guardian ad Litem?  If she has her own lawyer then she could make her story and wishes known through her lawyer?

Generally minors aren't interviewed in court until they're close to or already in their teen years.  With your daughter already solidly in her teens, perhaps the court would allow an in camera interview with the judge or court officials.

Another option, though it delays the divorce process and is expensive, is to seek a Custody Evaluation.  However, make sure you get a CE with an excellent reputation for solid reports.  Here is one excerpt, follow it back to read the whole post.

How to get a good CE?  Better phrased, How do you ensure the ex doesn't choose a poor CE?  One approach described here that has worked for many is for you or your lawyer to make a short list of solid evaluators, then have the ex or ex's lawyer to select from that vetted list.  Court will like that since it lets both sides have a part in the selection.  But of course the key was to limit the choices to the better CEs, something you can do as a part of your strategies for success (or at least limit the downsides).

What if none of the above succeeds?  As is sometimes observed, older teens, even if still minors, have been known to 'vote with their feet' once they can drive.  Courts can make orders but generally don't force or enforce too often.  Of course, you don't push your child to vote such a way so if/when it happens then you're not in hot water... .

[Eve2017]

Thank you for the responses. I am trying to gather all the evidence I can to demonstrate that he is lying - it's so many lies that I have to think somewhere along the line he is going to forget what he said and contradict himself. I guess my prayer is that the truth will come to the surface some way, some how. 

 I just don't know though... .it feels like I am in some alternate-reality where all my life I have lived with integrity and honesty but it's as if it doesn't matter one bit now that it really counts... .because now the people deciding the fate of my children don't know whether I'm a lunatic trying to frame my husband as a liar and abuser or telling the truth because they don't know me from Adam.  Meanwhile he has damaged, lied, cheated, and hurt those closest to him for the past decade, but for all they know he really is just a compassionate and sincere victim like he says he is.

He has threatened suicide so many times over the years that I lost track - but he denies it ever happened. I called the police once and he was taken to in patient care for 48 hours but he now claims that I did it for "no reason."  And yet our daughter is scared every time he cries/sobs and asks, "Mommy, is daddy going to kill himself?" We all live in this fear and it is part of what kept me in the relationship so long... .I was convinced he'd kill himself but in the end he has been fine and just sneers at me when I see him.  He calls my daughter names, told her the separation was her fault, and said to her, "You are the worst thing that ever happened to me."  Why would she or I or anyone make this terrible stuff up?  Maybe I'm naive but I cannot comprehend making up such terrible lies or convincing a child to state them ... .for what purpose? To have custody? Not to pay child support? I just can't believe I am in this position of having to defend myself and my children this way to strangers after tolerating abuse for so many years.  It is terrifying.

She does not have a GAL as I understand it is not common practice in our state. I think it would be good for her.

[Sluggo]

I agree with others... .  More Time. 

I would ask for a custody evaluation if you are able to. My custody evaluation ordered by court and took about seven to eight months to complete.  After a few months I started to believe the custody evaluator was seeing things for what they were. Started to see the behaviour of my wife. By the end of the custody evaluation she had totally nailed it. She understood what was happening

However the custody evaluation cost about $20,000 and has drawn out the process considerably.  But wekl worth Every Penny

[ForeverDad]

My CE, a child psychologist, was scheduled to take 4 months but my spouse claimed she couldn't take the test in English so the CE got a month's continuance to administer another language test and hire a translator for the results.  Oh, my ex was a certified interpreter and translator for both legal and medical scenarios.

The cost was quoted to be around $3K, but her slick twist inflated it to $4K.  That's way on the low side, most are $10-15K.  More important than the quoted price is whether the CE is qualified, perceptive, unbiased and unlikely to be conned or gullible to emotional (but unsubstantiated) claims.

Courts generally never see the children, usually court only deals with brief hearings every couple months, only the professionals surrounding the court see the kids.  So make the best use of those professionals and agencies.  Whenever you have the ability to choose, choose the most perceptive and experienced ones.  If need be, you can also ask for a Guardian ad Litem (GAL) who would be the lawyer for the children.

Read William Eddy's SPLITTING handbook, it describes how you need to get multiple consultations so you can choose a proactive and problem solving attorney.