My new logic on crazy and blame.

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I've been thinking about my situation. I have agonized over what to do with an unhappy marriage of almost 20 years to a woman who may, or may not, be a high-functioning uBPDw.  I have painfully looked at myself and taken my own share of the blame for the relationship.  I still hold to the idea that I'm basically normal, fairly healthy, and would like to be a centered and mindful person.  But, I am aware that I must be in the FOG still because, I can't quite be sure of things. 

So, I came up with this. 
If my wife is right, and I am to blame, and if I am / was as bad as she makes it sound, then, this is an abusive, toxic relationship and it should end.  I should go.  If this was a public office, I would resign just so that the work could go forward with out the clutter of the past.
If she's not right, and I'm okay, then this is an abusive, toxic relationship, and I can't survive much longer. Therefore it should end. 

Also, if I am crazy, then I might as well be crazy (and later to blame) for the dissolution of the marriage.  If I'm not crazy, I should probably still exit to save my sanity. 

That's my working solution to the FOG, blackmail, and end of the questions about whether I'm sane or not, or the abuser or not.  Sort of jealous of the mentally infirm right now because they can blame everything on someone else and not worry about it.
 
Open thoughts.

[SamwizeGamgee]

I've been thinking about my situation. I have agonized over what to do with an unhappy marriage of almost 20 years to a woman who may, or may not, be a high-functioning uBPDw.  I have painfully looked at myself and taken my own share of the blame for the relationship.  I still hold to the idea that I'm basically normal, fairly healthy, and would like to be a centered and mindful person.  But, I am aware that I must be in the FOG still because, I can't quite be sure of things. 

So, I came up with this. 
If my wife is right, and I am to blame, and if I am / was as bad as she makes it sound, then, this is an abusive, toxic relationship and it should end.  I should go.  If this was a public office, I would resign just so that the work could go forward with out the clutter of the past.
If she's not right, and I'm okay, then this is an abusive, toxic relationship, and I can't survive much longer. Therefore it should end. 

Also, if I am crazy, then I might as well be crazy (and later to blame) for the dissolution of the marriage.  If I'm not crazy, I should probably still exit to save my sanity. 

That's my working solution to the FOG, blackmail, and end of the questions about whether I'm sane or not, or the abuser or not.  Sort of jealous of the mentally infirm right now because they can blame everything on someone else and not worry about it.
 
Open thoughts.

[Eve2017]

Yes, you probably are in a the FOG and it makes it very hard to see things/reality.  I think once you get some space/distance, it will become much clearer to you.  Nonetheless, your reasoning is sound to the extent that this is a toxic relationship, whoever is at fault (or however that would be divided), so it's a good idea for you BOTH if you got out.  If nothing else the divorce process I'm in right now is teaching me that it is truly better to be out of than in a toxic marriage.  I am starting to re-discover myself in ways that I had totally lost during the marriage... .almost like rebirth.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Thank you Eve.  Your comments give me comfort.

I spent years now looking for a reason, the truth, the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.  I spent years looking for fault, for reasons, for solutions, for fixes.  I read stores of abuse much worse than what I think I go through -- and tell myself that I should be stronger, or able to handle it.  But, I get mad at myself for having putting up with a marriage that no self-respecting person would put up with - and for so long.  And then, I get frustrated with myself for being so oversensitive, and question what was really wrong with me, or what was really so bad about the marriage. 

Over time, I see that I got better, and therefore my marriage and everything around me got better, so I think that if I can try more, I can make it even better still.  Learning about BPD might have actually prolonged my misery since I look for medical and psychological reasons instead of just saying that I'm not happy and not going to survive this marriage. 

I need to give myself permission to just be an oversensitive, unfulfilled person in a relationship that has been so bad for so long that it's unrecoverable.  And then I should let go regardless of fault or justifications.  ... .and I maybe would if it wasn't for kids involved... .

[RedPill]

I understand what you're feeling, Samwise. As long as I was within the relationship the Obligation part of FOG kept telling me to try harder, keep gutting through the chaos, hoping desperately that the future would (somehow magically) improve to the golden times. In my case, just as we began to shine a light on the dysfunction and regain a foothold of intimacy is when she snapped and pulled the trigger on divorce. It was only then, once the shock and grief had begun to fade, that I was able to consider a better life outside of the toxic chaos.

It sounds like you're currently stuck because you're still in it. I think the fact that you have considered the part you play in the dysfunctional dance represents a healthy introspection. But listen to your gut. You are not responsible for her unhappiness. And you cannot (and shouldn't have to) fix it. You have tried, for a long time, to make it work. You deserve somebody that makes you feel validated and alive.

Are you seeing a therapist? It has been valuable to me to have somebody validate, and sometimes challenge, my perspective of my r/s. They helped wave some of the FOG away.

And now a silly anecdote: about two years ago, before I knew about BPD or considered the possibility of divorce, I was watching Modern Family. Ed O'Neill, the father who had been in a long term, chaotic, unhappy marriage, was waxing philosophic about finally divorcing his estranged wife once the kids were grown and unexpectedly meeting Sophia Vargas, a beautiful Columbian bombshell, falling in love, and re-marrying. "After putting up her (the ex-wife) for so long" he mused, admiring his new wife, "the universe rewarded me." And a slow, s**t-eating grin spread over his face.

It was written as a joke. But that scene rattled around in my head for a long time. It got me thinking. I wish I had listened harder then.

Finally, it takes two to make a marriage a success but only one to bring it down. Try to stop beating yourself up. I hope that helps.
--
RP

[lpheal]

You are conscientious and empathetic, not oversensitive. People that are conscientious and empathetic have positive character traits that should be valued. You are married to someone (as am I) who is taking advantage of you because of those traits, in my non-professional opinion.

I spent the past year going through the same debates in my mind about how much of this is my fault and how much is beyond my control. The few people that know what I am dealing with have told me I am not responsible for any of it. At first I doubted that, but I'm now confident that is true.

What I found helpful was to listen to what my wife was complaining about (usually it would be 2 or 3 things), and try really hard to address those particular issues. For example last summer there were three big issues in her mind that were standing in her way of happiness. Life is never perfect, so there will be always be problems... .but just to convince myself I worked to make sure those big issues were all fixed. They have been to the point that she can't bring them up anymore. But guess what? Those things aren't important now, and they have been replaced by something else.

And just two nights ago, she flew into a rage because "we" left D3's swimsuit at a hotel about two weeks ago. This was a nice small hotel in a very nice location with very nice hotel staff. Not anymore, now they were dishonest. I was lazy, because I didn't check the balcony for the swimsuit. I never do anything to help... ."all you did was load all of the bags in the car, but I'm the one who had to pack it." (She actually said this... .and we are only talking about her bag). Now D3 only has one swimsuit for our next trip, and a bunch of other hand-me-down swimsuits from her cousins that have been touching another persons you-know-what (insert name of female anatomy). She "made me" call the hotel at 10:30 in the evening to report the missing swimsuit. After that she stormed off to bed, slamming doors and locking me out of the bedroom. She took the pillows and blankets from the other bed with her into the room I guess to keep me from being able to sleep there.

Being nice people, the hotel staff called me back yesterday and said nothing had been found.

So I checked last night, and as I suspected the "lost" swimsuit has been hanging in the closet, cleaned and ready to go. She didn't even bother to check.

I took a picture of the swimsuit on my phone, and I'm going to keep that picture and remember this small and completely ridiculous episode if I have any doubt about who is the source of the problems in the marriage. It's also why I'm just a child care plan away from saying enough with it.

I've read many of your posts, and you are a very rational, clear thinking person. My two cents is to collect and remember your experiences like this to give yourself some mental fortitude and reassurance.
 

[talking rose]

I can relate a lot to your post.  I have had the exact same thoughts, who really is to blame for the conflict in my marriage, and how much is my fault?  I go in circles in my head when I am in this mode, and this thought process makes it impossible for me to take concrete steps to improve my situation.  The only logical conclusion I can reach in that mental state is to say that whoever is to blame, this marriage is over. 

I am starting to think the blame assignment is a BPD distraction tool.  And I have fallen for it hard, repeatedly.  The truth is, in a  healthy relationship, blame assignment is not the main focus.  The issues are discussed, each person gets to say his/her opinion/complaints/whatever, and each is heard by the other.  (Accusations and name calling and labeling are not complaints or opinions by the way, they are abuse.)  Then, the couple has a better understanding of each other and of the issue at hand, and can move forward on ways to resolve the issue, which might include concrete steps to take (i.e.paying down debt, reducing spending, telling a mother in law she cannot come for the holidays... .) and it will likely also include apologies for any damage that was caused by each party, and forgiveness by the other.  Needless to say, NONE of this takes place when blame is the focus.  And after long fights of trying to assign/avoid accepting blame, any possibility of resolution is ruined by the blame assignment that the resolution suggests.  So you end up in a never ending cycle of assigning and avoiding blame.

I wish I could say I've been there, but the fact is that I am still there.  Currently separated and gathering the nerve to file for divorce, I am stuck in a cycle in my head of trying to figure out if he is right that I am really the crazy one. 

Now I  know that this is a sign that I am being abused.  I know it in my head, logically, but my emotions and my gut are confused.  Because what if I really did contribute to all this by pushing his buttons, as he says.  I can't ever know for sure.  Even though I do know for sure.

My therapist told me yesterday that I have traumatic bonding with him.  She said it's like an addiction, I know it's bad for me logically, but then my emotions take over, my body basically deceives me and tricks my brain into thinking that I can do something different to improve this relationship.  I know she is right, but then again, my gut makes me question myself.  Is this what an addict feels like?

Sorry I went on a bit much about myself. My main point was that this thinking you are experiencing is a direct result of being emotionally abused.  It is gaslighting at it's finest.  You question your own sanity and you start blaming yourself for your own abuse.

[Panshekay]

One of the things that our son found once he was out of the daily living with a uBPDW was how much calmer and happier his life was. He didn't have to worry what he was coming home to, he didn't have to wonder what she was going to break, a new TV or all the dishes. He didn't have to worry about not being able to go to bed because she was upset about some imagined issue.  His life was his own... .he was much happier.  I think what you are feeling is very clear and makes sense to me... .others can't make us happy and we can't make others happy. That has to come from within. 20 years is a long  time. From what you have said it sounds like you have been very mindful. 

[ForeverDad]

Your logic can't be that far off... .
... .if you are the huge problem, then only right to end it
... .if your spouse is the huge problem, then only right to end it

[SamwizeGamgee]

Your logic can't be that far off... .
... .if you are the huge problem, then only right to end it
... .if your spouse is the huge problem, then only right to end it

Almost too simple.  I like it.  It sure subtracts the question and burden of blame (thanks Talking Rose).  It fits with my mindset of radical acceptance too. 
I just need to think about the second hurdle, if my wife is a huge problem, but, I think my gut can't be that wrong.
@Ipheal - your story brings to mind some things my wife has done and said, more than I'll share here, but it does speak to exactly what you are saying. She has huge gripes, I address those, and no matter, there's another huge gripe that's "always been the problem." 

Thanks everyone.  I am truly grateful for each of you.

[ForMySon]

If you are truly confused by your wife, and whether she is a good person or not, look at her actions. This is a lesson that took me a while to adjust to. She would say one thing, and she would act another. I used to look at this as hypocrisy, but now I see that is the core of BPD. They can't help themselves in their acting out. I feel really bad for them. They see things right, but they can't do things right. It's so sad.

[asiyah93]

"So, I came up with this.
If my wife is right, and I am to blame, and if I am / was as bad as she makes it sound, then, this is an abusive, toxic relationship and it should end.  I should go.  If this was a public office, I would resign just so that the work could go forward with out the clutter of the past.
If she's not right, and I'm okay, then this is an abusive, toxic relationship, and I can't survive much longer. Therefore it should end.

Also, if I am crazy, then I might as well be crazy (and later to blame) for the dissolution of the marriage.  If I'm not crazy, I should probably still exit to save my sanity. "

My exact thought process the last few months I've tried to unfriend and permanently cut off my BPD ex. I even said to him that we both bring out the worse in each other (owning my part too). That was the only solution I could find: "therefore, it should end." Whether it's you who is the problem or her, the point is, as you said, this is toxic.

[tmarshal2016]

I'm also in the FOG as well. Right now, at this moment, the child custody and child support court date is set on June 8.  I'm also feeling its my fault that this marriage is ending. As these days pass,  I just want to cry my heart out and apologize to my two children because I couldn't keep this marriage. going through this divorce is the hard and most difficult thing I have ever been in.  I truly hate what it is doing to my life and the lives of my children.  She never want to meet me on even ground.  It was always my fault and she would never change.

[ForeverDad]

I've been here for going on a dozen years.  (Yikes!)  In that time I noticed that many people with a serious PD sometimes find their ways here.  For example, sometimes a person joins who is in a BPD-BPD or BPD-NPD marriage.  It's not hard to detect the PD traits in those posts, sometimes you discern it immediately, sometimes over several posts.  While we all have some of those traits, they're not necessarily bad, that's only when they go to one extreme or the other.  Often the sentence structure is strange or disjointed.  The slanted perceptions or world view become noticeable leading into blaming and blame shifting.

When I see someone giving himself or herself a self examination, that attitude has consistently identified a reasonably normal person.  Maybe one beaten down, one victimized into self-doubting, but still at core a reasonably normal person who can bounce back given education and support.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Sometimes I'm jealous of the crazy people I see, even the ones out on the street.  When you're crazy, you don't know it, and life is not so complicated. If it weren't for the torment I think hides  deep within people with BPD, I'd say they have it good most of the time.  They can ba adult toddlers, hurt others, hopefully find a caretaker partner and blame others.  Freedom comes in a different color for them. Unfortunately the abyss inside makes real actualization impossible, but, sometimes it must be nice to be the problem and not see it.