I could use a little guidance dealing with a master manipulator

[allienoah]

 Feeling like a failure on some level is something I have dealt with every single time my bfwBPD goes on a rage. I have been working so hard to build up my OWN self esteem and self worth to protect myself from all the second-guessing and "what if I were only better, more understanding, caring, blah-blah-blah". You know what? I am enough and I am a good person. However, today I feel like the dirt under his shoe. Short version of situation:
-I struggle to do something for myself. Make vacation plans with old friend whom I used to travel with before bf came along. Was fully prepared for the volcano, and I got it!
-Bf rages that  I am insensitive and should be going with him-even though he can't take off now. He likes to say we have enough to deal with- why would I need to go away.
_Bf rages that I shouldn't have told my friend who was traveling from another state to fly with me, that she could stay at my home. He felt it was my last night before trip and I needed to be with him. I had spent all week with him. This woman just drove 3 hours, was getting up at 3am to catch the flight with me, and I should've told her to find a hotel?
- He finally calms down, I go away, promising to stay in reasonable touch. I do so.
-I call exhausted one night to say goodnight and am yelled at for not wanting to stay on phone for hour. I am accused of acting like a single and probably going out after call
-I let him know gf is staying the night we get home as it will be later than we thought and she had a 3-hour drive home--RAGES again. He felt I should again have told her to get hotel.
-I am accused of all sorts of uncaring behavior, told not to contact him. I didn't
-upon landing find out that my son-newly graduated from college-had 3 job interviews in city and came home to get ready and bring his dog home. He is moving back in with me next week.-this I knew as did bf
-BF calls me, I answer and let him know about dog. He hangs up calling me names and discards me.
I was NOT going to send my old friend packing, I was NOT going to tell my son that he couldn't leave the dog home, and I was NOT going to tolerate any more of bf dysregulation. We are on ST as far as BF is concerned, NC as far as I am concerned.
What exactly did I do so horrible that I deserved the verbal onslaught? He went on and on to tell me that he can't be with someone that doesn't put him first, that won't "rule her own roost", that chooses to meet her kids, and friends' needs before his, etc etc. From those who have read my posts, it is very obvious I have neglected certain things with my friends and children(young adults) in his name. Is this another extinction burst because I did't give in? it just feels like torture. He was gaslighting me like no tomorrow and I called him out on it. This is really exhausting me. And I should be relaxed from vacation and I just feel more stress.

[asiyah93]

"What exactly did I do so horrible that I deserved the verbal onslaught?'

Nothing. You didn't do anything horrible. But that's not the point. Reality for them is much different. If they perceive a slight, that slight exists, whether that's the case or not.

Hang in there. You need this vacation.

[formflier]

 
What exactly did I do so horrible that I deserved the verbal onslaught? 

This deserves a "double tap". 

The answer is... .absolutely nothing.

Please... .please understand this is not about you  Although you have a choice to be part of this or not.

Please take some time to take care of you.

With a clearer head, I would encourage you to work through your decisions for the future.  We can help with that.

   

FF

[Escaped]

Hey,

You didn,t do anything wrong, by now you must understand that they,ll explode over... .well, anything!
But i wonder if you know what makes you stay in this awful relationship? That,s the part you need to figure out. That will help you heal. I really hope you can stay nc. I just left my BPD lover and my life is so peacefull and happy now

[allienoah]

Had a very interesting evening at CT last night. The latest event, which I described above was brought to light. I very honestly described the incident-no feelings, just facts. He was then able to tell his side. It completely revolved around my being painted black-no surprise there. The T encouraged us to talk about how each of us felt. What can I say-he completely exploded and someone else besides me was able to witness the behavior, the yelling, the name-calling-all of it. She calmly tried to reel him in several times and suggested we both just let it settle and go our separate ways after T. We did that. I was treated to more ST, but I was not upset about that. He was so completely out of control at T that nothing was going to be settled. The T pointed out to him several times that his behavior was not helping but hurting our r/s. He said some mean things and honestly I got the impression that he now has been fully exposed for his inappropriate actions. I am honestly a bit embarrassed to say that it felt good to finally have a professional witness what I deal with and know I am not going crazy. Is this a step? I don't think so. He is still so self-justified.

[allienoah]

I do want to add that I am taking some serious time to deeply question why I haven't yet been able to extricate myself from this relationship. It is not attractive to watch someone dysregulate at me over and over again. I am not helping my own sense of self by entertaining these discussions. I am constantly being judged or gaslit and the more I am aware of it, the less appealing he is to me.

[Grey Kitty]

It is a bit vindicating to have somebody like the T clearly see his bad behavior.

But I wouldn't count on it being a breakthrough for him or anything... .more likely he will decide that the T is against him, and paint the T black, and refuse to go back.

... .anyhow, are you still "wondering" why you haven't been able to get out?

[allienoah]

You know, greykitty, I am not wondering anymore. I know it is a result of my codependency and fear of "losing the good". I literally just spent an entire long weekend with him bouncing back and forth from the best guy in the world to a total ***hole. Last night agreed to step back from each other. I am willing to let him blame my boundaries and stronger attitude for the issues. I refuse to admit to doing anything wrong by going on vacation, and allowing my friend to stay at my home. I tried to do a little extra for him here and there over the weekend but it was ignored under the storm of his "hurt feelings, and disrespect". I admit that over the past few weeks I was cycling rapidly back and forth between holding my own and going down the rabbithole. I am honestly exhausted.

[Grey Kitty]

I am willing to let him blame my boundaries and stronger attitude for the issues.

   

You can't take care of yourself and convince him that you are "the good guy" at the same time. You have to pick one. You are picking the right one.

  What does "agreed to step back from each other" mean to you?

Is it a breakup, or a step in that direction?

[Lalathegreat]

I have no sage wisdom to share because I feel like I am just barely holding my crap together at the moment but just wanted to take a moment to send a virtual ((HUG)) and my thoughts your way... .our pwBPDs seem so incredibly similar in regards to their volatility and outright hostility.

You did not deserve any of what you got. You are right to take this time and build yourself back up.

Hang in there... .

Lala

[allienoah]

You know, Greykitty, I am no longer concerned with being the "good guy" as I am slowly realizing that I am not a horrible person for taking care of myself. I can understand that his picture of a "relationship" and "partnership" is to not do a thing without consulting each other-(doing what he wants me to, coddling his feelings constantly, etc). However, I also know that I stand a huge risk of literally losing whatever ties remain to those I love if I continually choose him over them. It seems that life is constantly throwing situations at us that cause another crisis I finally have doused the fire that was his outburst over my vacation, and now I find out that my cousin's daughter didn't invite me with a guest to her wedding as the rule is "engaged couples only". My daughter was also invited w/out her bf. I know he will be more understanding than MY bf. Here we go again. How on earth do I navigate THIS? It will literally be the death knell of my r/s w/ sister, daughter, cousin if I refuse to go on these grounds. I honestly think this "taking a step back" is pointing to our breaking up. I can't see how he is going to react to this latest situation without a complete eruption, demands, ultimatums and the like. I am at a loss. Any thoughts?

Lala, thank you so much! We do seem to have the same situations over and over again. I know that you and I do not deserve what we get. I believe that we are kind loving people who really are trying to understand and make our r/s successful. It is so very difficult. You can see with the situation I described above that I am in for more fireworks. I really don't know what to do.

[formflier]

Allienoah,

   

Big... .BIIIIIGGGGG breath.  These are not life and death decisions.  Let's avoid catastrophizing things.

You get to interpret how you view the world.  If life keeps tossing your a crisis... .perhaps that is true... .perhaps your definition of crisis is a bit off.  Perhaps the answer is somewhere in the middle.

OK... .break things down... .each situation into it's own bucket.

What is the date of the wedding?  When do you need to RSVP by?

What are the most pressing decisions you face today?

Let's go from there.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

allienoah, you aren't at a loss about what to do regarding the your cousin's daughter's wedding.

You know what the right thing to do is:

Go to the wedding. Tell your bf that your cousin's daughter won't invite couples unless the couple is engaged. Tell your bf that it is HER WEDDING, and that is HER CHOICE, no matter how stupid, unfair it is to your bf, and because she is your family, you are going to go to her wedding on her terms, because it is her day.

What has you at a loss is the (reasonable, given prior behavior) expectation that your bf will go into an abusive dysregulation when you tell him, and your wish not to have to deal with it. Sigh.

It seems that life is constantly throwing situations at us that cause another crisis... .

No, NO, NO! What life is throwing you in this case, and on your vacation before wasn't a crisis. Your bf manufactured a crisis out of something that wasn't that big a deal and shouldn't have been a relationship-ending-level crisis.

You have the (reasonable, based on past behavior) expectation that he will do it again. If he forces you to choose between yourself, your family, your integrity or him, remember he's the one forcing the choice.

And that said, there is still a decent chance that the only way you will have a clean, clear breakup is if you take action to make it so--There is a good chance that any threats he makes to break up with you are mostly just that--threats, and given the option, he will stay in this relationship, and keep behaving the way he is behaving.

Anyhow... .keep up the good boundaries with your bf. If he wants to come back and live within them, he has that choice. I'm running out of hope that he will, but the option is always there.

[GaGrl]

GK is absolutely right... .it's not Life throwing these situations in your way. Life is Life... .just normal events that functional couples handle every day. Your bf is manufacturing the drama.

[Lalathegreat]

I just got a ton out of what GK just said. I also tend to fall into the "oh geez here we go again why do these types of events keep happening when they make things so hard?" Trap. It has been only a short period of NC and distance from pwBPD, but the biggest POSITIVE change (and believe me, I cling to it desperately given how ___ing hard every other damn thing is right now) is the sense of relief I feel when life happens (as it does) and I no longer have to worry about walking the minefield of trying to make it anything but a complete train wreck. Hell, forget vacations and weddings - sometimes dinner on the table before 7pm was something my pwBPD couldn't deal with!

  You are strong. You will do the right thing.

[allienoah]

Greykitty, lala,gagri-thank you for clarifying what I had deep down thought all along. These are NOT crisis-they are LIFE. I am tired of adding to the "drama" by my fear of his reactions. Honestly I have been putting off telling him this for way too long. That is my fault. I should have brought it up upon receiving the invite. But now that it is approaching, I have to bite the bullet, be a big girl, and just own it. I am going to go. I don't believe that refusing to do so is the right thing. And I do anticipate his meltdown. I guess forewarned is forearmed. And it is correct, that he might decide this is the last straw. I will deal with that. Lala you are so right when you state that you don't miss the constant vigilance necessary for these r/s's. How peaceful life could be.
I have come to the realization-with the guidance of all of you-that my life is not filled with drama-it is filled with LIFE. And my bf does indeed create drama where there shouldn't be any. I have to STOP feeding into it.

[GaGrl]

And just a reminder here... .it is Life when you have children and a relationship at the same time.  People divorce, meet, date, have a long-term relationship, marry... .and the blended families learn to accommodate each other.  In a functional (not perfect) family, no one has to choose between an adult child and the new SO.  Again, it's his drama.

[allienoah]

True this is life. As my son has just moved back home it is a fretful time for my bf as he is afraid of being put on the shelf. My son intensely dislikes my bf. I have taken measures by enforcing my feelings for my bf, my son and myself! So you see, it is a situation where I will be going away (again-here come abandonment issues) at a time when bf is feeling on very shaky ground. His not being invited is certainly not a personal thing but he will certainly make it so. I know, I am projecting again! My goal is to stay true to doing the right thing-going-while not feeding into the anticipated drama. The chips will fall where they may at this point. I have to maintain my self-respect.

[Grey Kitty]

allienoah, you aren't projecting, you are predicting what he will do. Or simply afraid of what you think he will do.

And you have enough history to make your prediction reasonable, although not certain.

I would suggest using the best communication tools to tell him that you are going to the wedding without him (because he isn't invited).

Two ideas--first, consider telling him in an email or a text, so you can get your whole message out before he starts spewing anything at you, and so you can format it well.

Second, write a draft for us to review--we can help you say what needs to be said, and avoid unneeded invalidation.

Ultimately, that he isn't invited to the wedding IS invalidating, and he just has to cope with it--some invalidation is stuff that life throws at you, and cannot be avoided. Sometimes you have to say something invalidating--it isn't always avoidable... .and our lessons like not JADEing are about avoiding the unneeded invalidation!

[allienoah]

I took your advice and used my best communication tools to state the situation. I completely validated his feelings and listened without JADE-ing. I am very cautiously optimistic because he was sad, but told me "it is what it is" and "what can you do?" He did mention that he's upset that I will be gone Sat, Sun and home Mon. He expressed that he thought I should just go Sunday-it's 5 hours away so that is NOT happening. But to tell you the truth, he handled it all FAR better than I had expected. I know there is time before it happens, but I do feel he is trying.

[Grey Kitty]

 

Part of why it went better was what you did: You presented him with a situation he wasn't going to like, and didn't expect him to like it.

That's new and different.

What was your old way? Walk on eggshells, thinking that if you just JADEd enough in 'just the right way', he wouldn't get upset, and as you got more anxious and worried, because it wouldn't work, react by being even more invalidating, then panic when he inevitably did get upset.

I'm trying to smile gently when I say that--I want you to see how much better YOU are doing, and that it works better. Please don't beat yourself up over not knowing things before you learned them, or not being able to do them before you and the strength and practice to execute them properly.


Yes. He handled it better than you feared/expected, and your presenting it better made a huge difference.


Yes, he may blow up over it later. When you leave. While you are at the wedding. When you return. If he does, you have the tools to deal with it then, and that is tomorrow's problem.

Today, you can bask in your success--you were able to deliver the news without a full dysregulation when you delivered it. A later blow-up doesn't take away that success!

[calledandchosen]

It took me about six years to realize that my feelings didn't really matter unless they somehow were in relation to my BPD-SO.  Eeek, right? It's the brutal truth.  Your feelings matter just as much as his.  Your sleep matters just as much as his.  Your happiness... .

Listen, it's great to go out of your way for a person, but he's not respecting your boundaries and he's being cruel by making accusations towards your character.  This means your emotional needs are likely not being met in this relationship. That's right.  YOURS.

Next question. If your emotional needs aren't being met, what is this relationship based on? 

Pushing your feelings aside will not work forever.  

You can do this.  Put on your armor, learn the tools, and don't back down.  And sometimes walking away is the only way with master manipulators. 

[allienoah]

Well everyone, as a little update, "let the games begin"! Friday night at a baseball game, all is good. Had told bf how pleased I was that he was accepting of the situation and how much closer I felt to him, we were on the right track, blah,blah blah. All good until he felt I wasn't paying close enough attention to something he was texting with his kids about (they were home-20,16,15) I had turned around to quickly answer a question that some seatmates had asked me. 2 seconds! My bf refused to continue speaking with me, as I wasn't "committed" enough to the conversation. Ok so we leave shortly thereafter, and honestly I was furious with him. I said nothing. Then came the eruption. All the way home he literally screamed at me, called me names, put me down- you name it. I got out of the car once home and left him. He tried calling me and I wouldn't answer. Texts, same thing. Then Saturday I hear from him and what do you know? He went on a rampage about my vacation, the wedding, my kids, my family & friends, and the price of tea in China. I very clearly told him I was not putting up with this any longer. He proceeded to rage, and told me I am too insensitive for him and he was breaking up with me. You called it GreyKitty! So I accepted that. He has continued calling me since, to no avail. He demanded I not go to the wedding to show how unacceptable it is that he isn't invited. I am being a traitor by going. I need to "prove" that I am committed to him. No way. I am going to this wedding, seeing my family and he can rage all he wants to. This is so completely ridiculous.
Honestly, I am not trying to hurt anyone. Least of all him. But here we go again with the tasks of Hercules to prove my love and loyalty. Any words of wisdom-and if I am wrong please tell me. I don't know which end is up anymore.

[BeagleGirl]

... .he was breaking up with me... .He demanded I not go to the wedding to show how unacceptable it is that he isn't invited.

Ummmm.  He broke up with you.  If this is only for engaged couples, then taking a (recent) ex is probably even further off the intentions of the people who ARE PAYING FOR THE WEDDING AND HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE UP WHATEVER RULES THEY WANT. 

I know you are probably second guessing everything right now, but from where I sit you did nothing wrong.  HE broke up with YOU.  That is the definition of "not committed". 

IMO, at the very least you should call his bluff and treat him as someone WHO BROKE UP WITH YOU.  In my book, that means that he has decided that he does not want to be in a relationship with you, not that he can treat you any way he wants until you come back and do his bidding.  PLEASE, don't go back and do his bidding. 

If you feel like the relationship is worth rekindling, it seems like now is a great time to have him be the one to make the moves toward you and you get to renegotiate under what terms you will re-establish a relationship.  I would not rush that process. 

Here is an approach I'm trying to take, with encouragement from my therapist and pastor.  All of our relationship has been based on my willingness to move towards my BPDh when he moved away from me.  It was like some masochistic game of chase.  Sometimes he'd stay "stationary" for a while and we would have some semblance of a stable relationship, but it was always on his terms.  Then he'd do something to push me away and/or emotionally distance himself from me, I'd move towards him and we'd be back around the mulberry bush another time.

New pattern - I stay stationary, standing firm on offering a relationship with boundaries and reciprocity that I am willing to live with.  If he pushes me away with hurtful behavior, I create and maintain more distance.  If he tries to pull me I put on the brakes.  If he invites me to take a step towards him, I take ONE step forward and test the waters.  So far, he's then done a pull/push combo that then leaves us with more distance than before because I take two steps back (one to get back to where I was before the pull, and one in reaction to the push).  This is how we have gone from relationship in distress, meeting with counselors to work on our marriage, to individual counseling, to individual counseling and in home separation, to me moving out, to starting a legal separation process.  The type and amount of contact has been reduced to near NC, but the next step is increasing periods of NC unless he does something (infidelity or clear abandonment) that would make me feel free to divorce.   

As I see it, the reconciliation process (if it happens) will mirror the separation process, because there is lots of trust to rebuild.  It won't be kiss & make up and fall into bed and a "normal" marital relationship together all in a day.  It will take some time to reverse, maybe even more than it took to get to this place.

I say all of this as if it's easy.  It's not.  I have VERY down days when I question everything and am achingly lonely.  I have days when I would willingly take on the burden of going back to being the "marriage keeper" and "fixer".  I have days when I spend hours wondering what are the minimum criteria it would take for me to move back in.

So what do you think?  Are you willing to call his bluff?  Are you willing to consider yourself single and available for him or any other man to "court" back into a relationship?

[formflier]

Any words of wisdom-and if I am wrong please tell me. 

First of all... .go.  Live your life.

Let him know that your decision is not a statement about the value of your r/s and you won't make it so.
Leave it unsaid... .but he can make it about whether the moon is blue... or yellow... .or red... .it doesn't matter.

The basic... .underlying message that you adopt. 

I want to be in a r/s with you, this is what I can offer... .

followed up by

If this is not enough... .I'll be sad and will move on with my life.

Making no demands on him... .and not allowing demands to be made on you.

I think you get it that it's about control.  He wants to be the puppet master... and he can want that all he wants.

You get to decide to hand him strings... .or not.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

He proceeded to rage, and told me I am too insensitive for him and he was breaking up with me. You called it GreyKitty! So I accepted that.

You accepted what?

For that matter, what does "breaking up" mean?

The classical, normal, sane definition of breaking up is simply that you are not in a relationship anymore, probably won't stay friends despite your best intentions, and may never see each other again.

And especially, you don't just resume and pick up your relationship in a week, as if this "break up" never happened. (Instead, after breaking up, restarting a relationship would involve some serious thought, and perhaps something more like dating and starting over, if it did happen)

Your bf's version of what "breaking up" means, and the FOG he puts you in around it appears to be something rather different.

So when you accepted breaking up, what version of it did you accept? How would YOU define it?

[allienoah]

Very good advice beaglegirl! I actually have decided to call his bluff. I have been taking all of his rantings with a grain of salt, am not feeding the fire. He decided we are broken up. My definition of that is exactly what Greykitty said. I think that has been part of the problem. To bf it is a tool to manipulate me-and I have definitely given him the keys to the kingdom on THAT one! I have always looked at it as a BREAK UP but eventually caved in to the FOG. So when he has done this in the past and I had made other plans, he raged about how I could move on so quickly. And by that I just mean socially, not romantically. So in his head, breaking up is a control issue. I am tired of that. When he broke up this time, I accepted it as a BREAKUP and told him I was over all of this. No dates, no hanging out, no nothing. I have gone LC and won't call him. I am now defining the breakup by my standards. I have not backed down on this wedding issue, nor on his attempts to paint me black by throwing in everything but the kitchen sink. I am not a bad, hurtful person. I am not creating this drama. And I am done feeding the drama. My response to all of his talk of walking away is now a calm "OK". It is difficult for me and I am sad but not devastated. I really DO need to live my life. My going to a wedding or on vacation or anything else is NOT a reflection of our r/s. I am not being unloyal by attending. I am respecting the bride and grooms parameters. BF can't accept that there are social norms that need to be respected. But I am not going to JADE about anything. He has told me that this is a breaking point in our r/s. Let the chips fall where they may--I just need strength.

[Grey Kitty]

No, you aren't being unloyal to him.

The unloyalty he sees (and rails against!) is that you have your own feelings and desires which aren't the same ones he's experiencing.

And that's how mental illness plays out sometimes.

  I can't give you strength. But I can see you have it. You have enough to do the right thing for yourself, regardless of what he says or does.

[BeagleGirl]

I can't give you strength. But I can see you have it. You have enough to do the right thing for yourself, regardless of what he says or does.

Ditto. You ARE strong. That doesn't mean you are impervious to pain. It just means that the pain (or unhealthy ways of avioding the pain) won't define you.

You know where to come when all of the things that really make sense to you get confused and crowded out by feelings. We'll be here.

Hug-2

[allienoah]

Beaglegirl and Greykitty-I really draw more strength from your guidance and affirmation that I am not going crazy. I can say that this morning I am very sad, hurt, and frustrated, but I am also a bit relieved. You see, last night at CT my bf once again came undone and affirmed that if I indeed go to this wedding, our r/s is over. I held my ground. There was absolutely no JADE-ing on my part. The T was trying to help him express his feelings and guide him, but to no avail. It ended with him walking out. He called me sobbing to say that he has to walk away to get himself better. He loves me but he needs someone who will make him a priority, stand by him no matter how he behaves, and puts HIS feelings first and foremost. I feel like I have been trying to do this, while also enforcing my own personal boundaries-which you all know I never did in the past. At this moment I am ok. This situation has me exhausted. Now I just need to go along with my life, and take it day by day.