Order of Protection. No Contact, No 500 feet of my child, her, work, YMCA and I was removed from the home.

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

In my wifes desperation to keep me from the kids, she uses them as tools.  They are tools without any regard to the damage she is causing to the children.  It is sad, maddening, sick, etc, etc.  But that is what she is doing.  The custody evaluator at the court said that my wife probably doesn't even realize what she is doing is hurting and damaging the kids.  She will not stop her behavior by knowing this, she will only stop if there are sanctions against her.  My wife uses anything which will achieve her goal despite the damage it will cause.  

I have found a lot of understanding of the dynamics and the pathology with Dr Craig Childress book Foundations.  That has been extremely helpful to understand the pathology when dealing with alienation.  He also has some good you tube videos.  

Sorry you have been experiencing this.  Yes my darkest moments have been when I have been kept away from my 7 children.  I totally understand that feeling...

[Sluggo]

In my wifes desperation to keep me from the kids, she uses them as tools.  They are tools without any regard to the damage she is causing to the children.  It is sad, maddening, sick, etc, etc.  But that is what she is doing.  The custody evaluator at the court said that my wife probably doesn't even realize what she is doing is hurting and damaging the kids.  She will not stop her behavior by knowing this, she will only stop if there are sanctions against her.  My wife uses anything which will achieve her goal despite the damage it will cause.  

I have found a lot of understanding of the dynamics and the pathology with Dr Craig Childress book Foundations.  That has been extremely helpful to understand the pathology when dealing with alienation.  He also has some good you tube videos.  

Sorry you have been experiencing this.  Yes my darkest moments have been when I have been kept away from my 7 children.  I totally understand that feeling...

[isilme]

I can't really suggest much help, but I lived through this slightly as the child.  I was a teenager, though, and know now that my dad used me as a tool to hurt my mother.

Both my parents have BPD, mom is on the more needy, constant victim side of the spectrum, dad is a sociopath.  I am 40 now, and still sorting through how wacky they were to live with. 

Their marriage degenerated the older I got, and by the time I was 14-15, there had been suicide attempts on mom's part, threats of a murder-suicide on dad's part, and dad tried to strangle her the last day we lived under the same roof as a family.  I intervened, and had to drag him off her, convinced I was going to be attacked next.

He surprised me by telling me to grab some clothes and my cat and get in the car.  I was terrified and did so.  I know it was crazy to get in the car with the person threatening murder, but Mom was goading him into killing her ("you're not a man!  you can't do it!", and I was mad at her for provoking him, if that makes any sense.  He was higher functioning, and I wanted to get away from that apartment.  We drove 18 hours south to my grandparents (who mad Dad all he is today) who I'd not met but once in my 15 years. 

Our state allows no-contest divorce, and Dad was able to prove that Mom was a substance abuser, and he enforced NC between us rigidly.  I was told she hated me for leaving her and never wanted to see me again.  She was told the same.  To give her a little credit, she followed us to our state, and lived often homeless while trying to reach me.  She found a sugar daddy (she is good at finding caretakers to replace me - that was and always will be my purpose as far as she is concerned) and got off the streets.  After Dad no longer had a use for me as a tool to hurt her, and a new wife#3 to placate, I got kicked out.  I was 19.  Mom found me a year later,  and I had to discover all over how much better I was without her in my life and had to painfully go NC on my own few time before I got where I am, NC for many years now.

Anyone using a child as a tool to manipulate others, to hurt, for sympathy, for money, is a sociopath in my opinion, with limited if any empathy for the child as a human being.  They are property.  They are a toy.  They are not individuals but enmeshed parts of the pwBPD who see them as an appendage.  And to the child, this is NORMAL.  I still don't fully know how weird things were living with them.  I see my friends having kids (I am childfree by choice because I am terrified of how bad a mother I would be) and only watching them can I see how weird it is to give your 5 years old an alarm clock to get herself up for kinder.  How strange it is to tell them their job is to take care of Mommy.  For Mommy to treat the kid like a stuffed toy or a blankie, just there for HER comfort, but incapable of offering the same to the child. 

All I can say is that while these proceedings are in progress they hurt, they are scary for those involved... .if you can ever get your kids even into a one-parent home with the non-pw-BPD... .it will help them greatly.  Even just living with Dad and being neglected was better than having both of them under the same roof. 

I agree to not disclose pot use or other things unless directed by your lawyer and to have your lawyer help draft appropriate responses as needed.  And I have to agree that tears may move some people but to not count on that as a big decider in court.  Please, be careful - this is the kind of "Scarlett Letter" that can follow you forever.

[Sluggo]

Ilseme

Anyone using a child as a tool to manipulate others, to hurt, for sympathy, for money, is a sociopath in my opinion, with limited if any empathy for the child as a human being.  They are property.  They are a toy.  They are not individuals but enmeshed parts of the pwBPD who see them as an appendage.  And to the child, this is NORMAL.  I still don't fully know how weird things were living with them.  I see my friends having kids (I am childfree by choice because I am terrified of how bad a mother I would be) and only watching them can I see how weird it is to give your 5 years old an alarm clock to get herself up for kinder.  How strange it is to tell them their job is to take care of Mommy.  For Mommy to treat the kid like a stuffed toy or a blankie, just there for HER comfort, but incapable of offering the same to the child. 

All I can say is that while these proceedings are in progress they hurt, they are scary for those involved... .if you can ever get your kids even into a one-parent home with the non-pw-BPD... .it will help them greatly.  Even just living with Dad and being neglected was better than having both of them under the same roof. 

Thank you for sharing.  I hope my kids will see the unhealthy dynamic they are living in.  When did you feel that your mother was using you for that purpose ... .  as a tool?  Was it over time or was it a water shed moment.   I don't think my kids see it yet... .or I haven't see them 'get it' yet.  Their ages range from 17 -3

[takingandsending]

Really frightening, Iilseme, that I once wrote of my wife after S11  was born, what did you think when you wanted to have a baby - that it would be a doll, a toy to play with, something you need to complete you, not a child that would need you?

Those were some of the darkest times of my life, when she raged at a newborn for needing her.

[isilme]

No to hijack Lost's OP, (just wanted him to see that there CAN be a positive outcome from all this pain if he can get custody), but no, it was not an epiphany moment, but a slow light coming on.

I understood we had unusual circumstances in our house, but I believed the lie that "Mommy is just sick".  Mommy was/is addicted to barbiturates and likes to lie to Dr.s to get as many as possible and spend her days tanq-ed off her gourd while the child got herself up, fed, and to school, back, and started dinner, and hid bills from Daddy that would show Mommy was not paying them.

As I got older, I think I felt pangs of anger at how unfair things seemed at times, but I immediately felt guilty for those feelings, told myself they were wrong and not to have them or express them.  At most, I wrote them in a diary, which later, Dad photocopied and mailed out to the whole family to prove what a horrible child I was, and that I was a whore for writing about making out with my then BF at the age of 19. 

In about 2010 I think I realized I felt anger about things - I was just over 30 at that time.  It was not just a feeling of  "Yeah, I grew up with crazy ppl," but ANGER at them for subjecting me to not just overt abuse, but neglect.  The neglect is what really hurts.  I have had factual accounts of life in my head, but I disassociated from all emotions.  I could recite events pretty well as if they were in a movie about someone else.  Then, feelings started coming back, and I found myself crying about things like the picture day in 3rd grade when my arm was in a cast and mom remembered picture day (she was awake somehow as I left that day) and grabbed a random dress out of my closet and shoved it in my bag, with instructions to change before photos.  I tried to put on the dress in the girls' room, but my cast would not fit through the sleeve of the dress.  I was terrified to disobey but did not know what to do - how many 8-year-olds can figure out what to do?  Mom gave me instructions.  She is not here to see I can't get the dress on, and I don't want to go home and tell her and her have Dad whip me with his belt for disobedience.  So I was a mess when a teacher came looking for me.  I babbled something to her while keeping to the family taboo of never mentioning belts and hours of standing at attention while being yelled at, and she told me the photo won't even show below my chest and my blouse was pretty enough, and she combed my hair and got me cleaned up and got my photo taken.  And to this day I think I like that photo best because it shows ME, a kinda sad, confused kid, more accustomed to neglect or anger than a nice teacher helping me out.  I still cry when someone is nice to me just to be nice - it does not compute.       

I come to posts like these sometimes so people in these r/s that don't seem in a place o be repaired and saved with some validation or even DBT, so they can know that there are worse things for the kids than being in a single parent home.  Lost just needs to be careful about how he presents himself, and the comments about smoking weed could be alarming to an outsider and sued against him. 

[Turkish]

Lost,

What's been going on the last two days?

The Dr. Childress recommendation is good.  He just posted this on his Facebook page.  It's a good summary of what you may be dealing with.


This Sunday I will be on Kristi Beck's show, Mommy Interrupted to answer all your questions.

https://www.facebook.com/mommyinterruptedradioshow/

If you haven't already sent your questions to Kristi, send them along.

The attachment-related pathology of "parental alienation" is created in the personality pathology of your ex-spouse.  Their personality pathology was created in their own childhood attachment trauma that led to their overwhelming feelings of core self-inadequacy.

The core beliefs of the narcissistic and borderline personality are that, "I am fundamentally inadequate as a person, and I will be rejected (abandoned) because of my inadequacy."

The narcissistic personality tries to ward off their deep and primal feelings of profound inner emptiness caused by their fundamental inadequacy-of-being by adopting a narcissistic veneer of grandiose superiority.  They devalue others to minimize the threat posed by rejection and to elevate themselves relative to the devalued other... ."I'm not inadequate; YOU are."

At their core, they are a fragile and inadequate little child.  They expand and roar to terrorize us because they are a frightened little child, a hurt and abused child who is terrified and alone and inadequate.

Puncture the narcissistic defense with criticism or rejection, and they collapse into the dark abyss of their core-self inadequacy, triggering a narcissistic rage in which they seek to restore their narcissistic defense against their profound inner emptiness, by making YOU the inadequate person who is being rejected.

Narcissistic personality: "I'm not the inadequate one, you are.  I'm not the rejected one, you are."

The borderline personality, on the other hand, is more psychologically exposed. The borderline personality does not have the narcissistic defense of grandiosity to ward off the inner emptiness of their core-self inadequacy.  The borderline personality feels the pain of their fundamental inadequacy constantly.  So they need constant - constant - reassurances of love from the attachment figure in order to ward off a collapse into the abyss of their inner emptiness and psychological fragmentation.

The borderline personality creates constant drama to acquire the continual attention and involvement of the attachment figure that's needed to ward off the collapse into the abyss of inner emptiness and psychological fragmentation.  Even minor failures by the attachment figure to provide the attention and involvement needed to ward off the collapse into the immensely painful abyss of inner emptiness and psychological fragmentation are met with a borderline rage; tantrums of venomous anger and depressive collapses into despair.

Life with the narcissist is hard. Their vacancy of inner substance creates an empty intimacy in the marriage, and their devaluing of others to support their narcissistic defense leads to the continual emotional and psychological abuse of their spouse as being inadequate.  Eventually, the normal-range spouse has had enough.  The normal-range spouse can no longer endure the profound emptiness of the relationship and the constant emotional and psychological abuse from the narcissistic spouse.

The narcissist thereby creates the very thing they most fear - rejection by the attachment figure ("I am fundamentally inadequate as a person, and I'm going to be rejected because of my inadequacy".

The rejection of the divorce triggers the collapse of the narcissistic personality into the abyss of their core-self inadequacy, and they then seek to restore their narcissistic defense (and get revenge on the "inadequate" attachment figure) by using the child as a weapon and a tool to make it the normal-range targeted parent who is the rejected and inadequate parent (person/(spouse)... ."I'm not the inadequate one, you are.  I'm not the rejected one, you are."

Similarly, the spouse of the borderline personality eventually becomes exhausted by the intense emotional neediness and constant drama created by the borderline spouse.  The borderline personality thereby also creates the very thing they fear - abandonment by the attachment figure because of the fundamental inadequacy of the borderline personality.

The borderline personality responds by taking sole possession of the coveted children, both as a symbol that the borderline parent is not inadequate but is instead the ideal, all-wonderful, adored and never-to-be-abandoned parent (person/(spouse), and also to engage the continual attention and involvement of the (abandoning) ex-spouse who can never fully divorce (abandon) the borderline spouse as long as the borderline parent has full possession of the children, and because of all the drama created surrounding custody and visitation with the children.  The continual drama created surrounding custody and visitation forever requires the constant focus of the ex-spouse on the borderline personality parent-spouse.

The borderline personality is a master at manipulation.  And the quickest way to achieve sole possession of the children - irrespective of court orders for child custody - it through an allegation of child abuse to CPS.  The mere allegation results in an investigation that immediately terminates the targeted parent's involvement with the children.  The borderline personality parent manipulates CPS to achieve immediate sole possession of the children. 

During the three to six months of CPS investigation, the borderline parent works their manipulative psychological control on the children, so that by the end of the CPS investigation the post-divorce "parental alienation" process is well under way.

In some (many) cases, the borderline parent will use the children to interfere with the new remarriage of the ex-spouse by having the children reject the new spouse (often with the allegation that the targeted parent isn't spending enough one-on-one time with the children, and that's why the children are rejecting the targeted parent).  This is designed to make the targeted parent choose between the new marriage and the children, thereby disrupting the bonding in the new marriage.

The narcissistic and borderline personalities (they are variants of the same core) are the products of childhood emotional and psychological abuse that created the core beliefs:  I am fundamentally inadequate as a person, and I will be rejected (abandoned) because of my inadequacy.  They are psychologically and emotionally abused children who are all grown up. 

Their love and bonding system - the attachment system - is damaged by the psychological trauma of their childhood. They are incapable of navigating the complexity of adult intimacy, because they are abused children all grown up.  They fail at intimacy, they are rejected and abandoned, and they collapse into the trauma of their abuse histories - their core self inadequacy and their defense against the abyss of their inner emptiness and despair.

They use the child and create the conflict as a cry for help;  ":)on't abandon me to the abyss of my profound inner emptiness."

The pathology of "parental alienation" represents the trans-generational transmission of attachment trauma from the childhood of the narcissistic/(borderline) parent to the current family relationships, mediated by the personalty pathology of the allied narcissistic/(borderline) parent that is itself a product of this parent's childhood attachment trauma.

This is an attachment-related pathology, requiring professional expertise in the attachment system.  This is a personality disorder related pathology, requiring professional expertise in the development and manifestation of personality disorder pathology in family relationships. This is a family relationship pathology, requiring professional expertise in family systems dynamics.  This is a trauma pathology, requiring professional expertise in the trans-generational transmission of developmental trauma.

Children and families experiencing "parental alienation" (AB-PA) represent a special population (a professional designation) who require specialized professional knowledge and expertise to competently assess, diagnose, and treat.

Failure to possess the necessary professional knowledge and expertise in the attachment system, personality disorder pathology, family systems therapy, and developmental trauma that is needed to competently assess, diagnose, and treat this special population of children and families would represent practice beyond the boundaries of professional competence in violation of Standard 2.01a of the APA ethics code.

Mental health professionals are not allowed to be incompetent.  Every ethics code for all mental health professionals, both in the U.S. and internationally, REQUIRES professional competence.

AB-PA returns us to the path of standard and established constructs and principles of professional psychology, to which ALL mental health professionals can be held accountable.

Craig Childress, Psy.D.
Clinical Psychologist, PSY 18857

This requirement for professional competence in the attachment system, personality disorder pathology, family systems therapy, and developmental trauma applies to Gardnerian PAS experts as well.  If Gardnerian PAS experts wish to continue to diagnose unicorns, that's fine.  Up to them.  But diagnosing unicorns does not absolve them from their professional obligation to be competent in real forms of pathology when assessing, diagnosing, and treating real forms of pathology.

[Lost in Desert]

Thank you to everyone for their advice, sharing personal experiences and educating me on elements of life with a BPD.  It is really fascinating in a negative sense honestly.  I am now entering a cruise control mindset.  Meaning, building my life back up slowly.  I joke with my sister, I have seen the sun more in the past three weeks than I had in my last three years of marriage.  Sad but true, I did walk the dog a couple times a day.  Court has gone steady, BPDW has now moved onto a family lawyer instead of a Public Defender.  That was expected after she learned who my lawyer was and basically have things slowly go my way.  Top Notch and family friend.  So our last court date, we offered a No Cause order, but then their side wanted me to agree to a Year of Supervised visits, that was rejected and was not even needed to be discussed with me.  Once my alcohol and drug screening comes back, then we proceed to step 2.  Joint custody, stay overs at my parents, until divorce is finalized and I buy a home.  Plus, her lawyer mentioned Child Custody(which she has already due to this Order of Protection), DV and Divorce.  My lawyer had to basically tell them, do you really want to go that route and have to be drawn into court several times a month for three different situations.  RETHINK that strategy.  Time will tell.  So, at this stage, what the EX was so concerned about last time in court, did not even come up this time in court.  She had mentioned my brother was a drug addict, parents enablers, etc.  But she did not know, yeah my brother did go down a dark path due to a back injury years ago, but he has been sober 5 years and takes part in a program which he has shined in.  Fascinating, but in reality, she HAS likely gotten tired due to  being a single mom.  She would always complain to me as soon as I walked in, she needed a break, and I happily took over tending to our son.  Her likes in life will be difficult cause she has to tend to our son.

She did exaggerate my income, so I had to agree to emergency child support for the next thirty days.  But I have all my commission statements and my salary info.  Plus I will bring last years W2s.  She is in a shock when the figure comes down, plus I want to MAKE sure the tax return, at least 30% is saved each year in a bond for his future.

I believe she is on her last straws trying to get me to crumble. I am stubborn as a mule, I will not call her, I will not email her, I will not try to speak to her thru a third party, etc. Like I told my lawyer, I have no intentions of ending up in jail due to her, NO MATTER WHAT.  I know I have done nothing wrong and I will stay the fight as long as needed. Sad, it does hurt at times that my soon to be ex, can simply one day say BOOM, I am done and not even try to ask me anything. It has been over three weeks since we spoke, I FIND THAT SO ODD SOMEONE CAN DO THIS to someone they supposedly loved.  I doubt she ever loved me. Not how I am doing, etc.  Like I learned, there is little to NO empathy inside her.  The ME First mentality is alive and strong.  She hides being a mirror of beauty and confidence.  But it does hurt that I can not even say a word to her, how can anyone do this is beyond my comprehension.  I just want to tell her, we do not have to try and make a "hollywood divorce", lets go to a mediator, we do not have assets to divide up, I have given you everything in the apartment.  Lets get over this quick, lets move onto co-parenting in a positive manner.  But I am unable to do this. I did tell my lawyer, how in the world am I suppose to get info to her now, like get your own auto insurance, call electric company switch it in your name, etc.

Court was predictable, she is on food stamps, and getting public assistance.  This has been her plan for a while.  So I handed over a check right then and there.  The Law Custodian for our son, added some great positive things about our son, to the extent, they did something right, he is energetic, happy and intelligent.  But he joking added that he played with play doh and of course the EX could not even control her outburst, she said out loud, I PROMISE I DO FEED HIM.  I just know, if a nasty divorce comes, my lawyer said we both likely will have to testify and that could be interesting.

SO now, she has this last element of control over me, NOW I can bring our son to my parents, under the supervision of either my sister or mom.  It is a pain in the ass, but I have to manage for a month, until my Assessment comes back.  I expect to be fine, I do not drink, do not do drugs, never have and I have smoked herb in my life, just not consistent enough to warrant me in a program.  Plus, with her not in my life, I have no urge. I will appeal immediately if that is the path they take, it was an emotional assessment, in large part due to the ODD occurrence my wife and counselor share the same unique name, VERY ODD.

Again, the odd behavior is how she can basically one day go to court, embellish and lie to get an order of protection and basically not say a word to me.  Now my first visit with my parents, she had to check in throughout the day, yet when she did this order, she did not have the heart to send a message to my sister or mom about our son.  I went ten days without knowing even a peep about his whereabouts, his life, etc.  HEART BREAKING. 

So, likely in three weeks, there will be a no cause order and I hope to have him over the weekends, spend the night with me.  He is an angel honestly.  I want to get to co-parent classes so we can benefit him during this stage.

So divorce court, do both sides take the stand?  I have an always will be truthful so easy to keep my side straight.  But her unstable mind will be shown.

[Lost in Desert]

TURKISH all I can say is WOW.  That is my ex to a T.  Her abuse began almost immediately, her own mother would leave her with strangers as a toddler, only to be found by her grandparents.  Her mother NEVER wanted to give up custody, even though she could not properly love her child.  Then she married a man who took the abuse to a physical level which has NEVER been addressed, thus this constant life of unstable acts.  Her family knows she is a manipulator, that is easy to pick up on.  But she has latched onto one aunt who is helping her, going to court with her to support her. 

[Lost in Desert]

So bad news came today!  The Counselor called and said I tested positive for THC in my urine.  She said something like 120 in my urine. I said that is impossible, it has been weeks since I smoked and the fact I was under so much pressure, I was taking Aleve, Advil daily due to not being able to sleep and thus causing me a great deal of Headaches and tension, plus my stomach is an issue, I began taking Prilosec again.  Funny thing, I did not even know these can cause a THC positive test in my urine.  One of my friends is a doctor, so I spoke to him.  He said I have to go there and discuss why I tested positive and thus request a second test.  Like I said, it has been three weeks since I last smoked herb.  My wife is using this to her advantage, mind you, she brought me home some from her job.

Now my lawyer does not seem as concerned as I am.  I had my first supervised visit with my mom/sister allowed for that.  Funny thing is, living under my ex wife control, I had no escape, so I did turn to herb due to me not being able to leave the house, exercise, play basketball etc. 

The counselor was very disrespectful, talking down to me.  As if I am lying.  I told her during my assessment, that I had smoked in my life, just not on a very big level.  But I am totally shocked she came back and said my number was high.

I even bought a drink from GNC, drank a ton of water and like I said, I have no urge to do it any more since I am not under her control any more, I am living, going outside, etc.

So what is some advice here, please and thank you.

[GaGrl]

I can only speak from Human Resources experience with drug-testing for new employees -- we pretty much know that it takes no smoking or ingesting for 2-3 weeks prior to a test to get a clean THC test.

I would encourage you to press for another test.

[Lost in Desert]

I will, cause I know for a fact there is no way!  I last smoked maybe may 20th with a friend!  I was not a heavy smoker, once at night to help sleep.  But this could crush me, even though my lawyer thinks other wise.

My friend said, do not take Aleve, Advil and do not take Prilosec the day of my test, which I did the other time I was tested.  I know I am over weight, but I have lost several pounds during this ordeal.  He claims there is evidence in the medical field that could cause me to test positive.  HE also advised that I request a blood test, since I have not smoked in roughly three weeks and I have no urge to since I am not around the soon to be EX Wife.

But now I have to go and "discuss" why I tested positive, I explained to the counselor, I do not understand how my urine tested so HIGH, she said the number was 120, their cut off was a 50.  Again, I find this odd.

I am not sure what to expect, but I am requesting potentially another Counselor, the one I sat with was young and appeared smug at times during my emotional time with her, WHY, cause her name was same as my wife.

[Skip]

Like I said, it has been three weeks since I last smoked herb.  My wife is using this to her advantage, mind you, she brought me home some from her job.

THC can be detected in your system using a urine test for up to 12 weeks depending on the quantity as well as frequency of use.  It can be tested in hair, even longer.

The counselor was very disrespectful, talking down to me.  As if I am lying.  

I think it will help talking to members here before you do things... .if you knew the test could detect THC 12 weeks out it might have given you a reason to try and stall.

I have no urge to do it any more since I am not under her control any more, I am living, going outside, etc.

Your focus has been more on blaming your wife and showing that, indeed, she is the problem, rater than on learning how the system works and defending yourself. Be careful, you can get eaten up in family court. I mentioned this before.

My suggestion (you asked for tips) is to stop making excuses to the court and blaming your wife - let the attorney defend you - and you go the other direction  - improve yourself (courts like this).

1. Sign up for a single father parenting class and be a star student. You can have the teacher testify for you later. Don't broadcast this. Tell you attroney so he knows and can use it at the right time.

2. Stop all drugs completely. Don't ask for a retest until you know you are clean. The best way to do that is to get a private test first. When its negative, ask for a court test.

3. Start exercising and lose some weight. THC is stored in your fat cells - you can burn it out.  Just don't exercise in the days just prior to testing. Eat on those days.

4. Write out your story here and get members to help you with the way you explain things. Your explanation of how you disciplined the child could have worded better.

5. Be strong, contrite, respectful. Breaking down in court and blaming your wife, however sincere and true, might be seen as signs of emotional instability and immaturity. Don't do it.

Does this make sense?

[Skip]

I last smoked maybe may 20th with a friend!  

I wouldn't say this.

They all trust the test results and the only thing that will help is a negative test right now. There is not a lot you can say to help yourself. You can say things to make matters worse, however. You already confessed a long history of smoking at some level in your other interview. You also said you needed it to sleep. If you blame  it on stress related to your wife, will that mean you will smoke when you have stress with your child?  See how this can be twisted against you?

But now I have to go and "discuss" why I tested positive, I explained to the counselor, I do not understand how my urine tested so HIGH, she said the number was 120, their cut off was a 50.  Again, I find this odd.

I am not sure what to expect, but I am requesting potentially another Counselor, the one I sat with was young and appeared smug at times during my emotional time with her, WHY, cause her name was same as my wife.

It could be high because you are overweight. THC stores in the fat tissue. More tissue, more THC.

It isn't going to help to lay the positive test off on the Counselor... . 

Did they order a psych evaluation? Are you going through a psych evaluation?

[Lost in Desert]

No they did not skip, my lawyer thinks her side will not request that, cause she will pounce on that idea.  The reason I may ask for another counselor is the lady shares the same name as my wife and it was very emotional.  I could not believe, my wife does not have a unique first name.

I have stopped using for sure, as I mentioned, I have no desire to ease my stress.  My stress is much lower now. 

So I have to go and discuss with her why I tested positive, she was asking me to be honest.  I told her I was, if I wasn't I would have not admitted to any use.  But I told her I did use but not that frequently, only if my wife brought it home or if a friend stop by my apartment at night. 

Yeah, I am chubby, so I am sure this is part of the issue, I used to be fit, so I been walking again to get to my comfortable weight, then I am going back full time in the gym.

I know my steps, I will ask to take some courses, show up and shine in my classes.  I have until July 10 for my next court date, so I hope to be tested again before that date and I should pee clean. 

Im getting a basketball today to start shooting hoops, I always shed weight fastest doing that, so that is my goal. I was 160 4 years ago, married, now I am 190 range now, lost 20 pounds due to divorce.

[Lost in Desert]

SO what is the advice for my visit tomorrow to discuss my reasons for failing?

I told her I did not drink, did not do other drugs, but I first tried herb at age 21.  I had many times in my twenties and thirties where I went years without doing it.  She asked how often, I told her when I saw certain friends, maybe Cookouts, Bday Parties, etc.  I do not purchase.

So my lawyer is not as concerned, she says it is often in family court.

Why the PSY Eval will not be discussed, my lawyer believes my wife knows then she can request one on her.

I am worried this is going to impact me in this DV case.  I will volunteer to enter programs tomorrow and be a good student.  As I mentioned, I have no desire to do it any more.

Just some advice on the conversation tomorrow, thank you Skip.

[Skip]

SO what is the advice for my visit tomorrow to discuss my reasons for failing?

I told her I did not drink, did not do other drugs, but I first tried herb at age 21.  I had many times in my twenties and thirties where I went years without doing it.  She asked how often, I told her when I saw certain friends, maybe Cookouts, Bday Parties, etc.  I do not purchase.

So my lawyer is not as concerned, she says it is often in family court.

Why the PSY Eval will not be discussed, my lawyer believes my wife knows then she can request one on her.

I am worried this is going to impact me in this DV case.  I will volunteer to enter programs tomorrow and be a good student.  As I mentioned, I have no desire to do it any more.

Just some advice on the conversation tomorrow, thank you Skip.

LID,

Most of this doesn't matter. Tell us, how many times did you smoke in the last 12 weeks and on what dates, where, who with, and what were the circumstances. In which of those cases was you daughter present?  Members can help you fashion a response from that information. Drill down, stay on track.

What happened when you were 21 isn't really important other that to establish long term use which doesn't help you. Don't talk about it any more. Your story that you need it to sleep (a need) and you need it for stress (a need) and you only smoke when someone else has it (recreation), won't sound consistent or true.

[Lost in Desert]

She asked when I had my first drink, age 18 I grew up in wine country, but never been a drinker.

When did I try herb first time, I said age 21 when I working on building a race car with a few friends.

So the last twelve weeks, I have smoked usually on a Friday Night/ Saturday Night when my wife and child were asleep.  Then I would come in, then lay down on the couch and fall asleep.

She asked if I used in my twenties, I said not really, I went to school to be a Gym Teacher and I was really focused on fitness, eating right, maintaining my active life style. In my thirties she asked, I said not often, when I would go to say a BBQ and certain friends, parties, etc.  But I also played competitive basketball and I had a 5 year stint in the Middle East.  So I have never been honestly a heavy smoker, in fact I rather eat if I can, but that is not always an option.

It is my son.

[Skip]

So the last twelve weeks, I have smoked usually on a Friday Night/ Saturday Night when my wife and child were asleep.  Then I would come in, then lay down on the couch and fall asleep.

You got high 24 times in the last 12 weeks? All solo events?
That doesn't tie to your earlier comment that you "maybe smoked with a friend in May" and "only when friends bring it".

This is how the counselor is going to read these answers.

Seriously, lay down the exact facts. We can't give you good advise on changing information.

Tighten this up!

[GaGrl]

Fyi... .tests using hair show THC to six months after use.

[isilme]

I believe CVs and Walgreens sell home testing kits as well.  They will prolly not be as accurate, but you can ask the pharmacist if you need to about how well they are supposed to work, or read reviews.  

I agree with solidifying your comments to your lawyer and to the counselor.  24 times?  12 times? Only a Friday OR a Saturday?  Both Days?  

Here are my concerns on that - so with a child in the house and a mentally unstable, unreliable wife, as the only rational adult present, able to take action in an emergency, you toked a bit to help you relax.  

See how that can read? Granted, my mother liked to take too many sleeping pills and so was not able to care for me and I had to fend for myself, and it's a miracle I am alive, frankly, so it's a bit of a rough spot for me, personally.  And I know far too much about marijuana since my H works with medical research, and it's actually nowhere near as harmless as people are lead to believe.  Not getting on the anti-weed soapbox, just some things you can read about its effects on adults and nearby children are alarming.

You need to be careful.  The idea that weed is harmless is not held by everyone, and it's not a good sign in family court's eyes.  I agree with the comment to not allow yourself to sound as if you are blaming everything on your wife, and work on getting your body to read clean.

[ForeverDad]

I recall when my spouse responded to my divorce filing.  In addition to that response, the same day she filed a stalking/harassment complaint over in civil court.  (Yes, throwing as many spitballs at the chalkboard as she could to make as many stick as possible.)  Well, my lawyer said it was hard to predict what the judge there might do, my ex was a woman and mother so it could have been anywhere up to 5 years and even renewable.  So lawyer made a settlement where (1) no finding of guilt was clearly stated in the settlement, (2) preschooler son was excluded, (3) term was limited to several months (early December I guess so the holidays weren't impacted) and (4) the settlement was classified as one that could not be extended or renewed.

So if you do agree to take tests or classes, be sure that they are not a part of a 'plea deal' where you have to admit at least some level of guilt.  Pleading guilty can negatively impact you later on in your parenting goals, making parenting more of an uphill struggle.  It may be a fine point but one you need to make clear.  Also, as much as possible, try to get her to face the same requirements, to lessen the one sided advantage she has as the accuser.

[Skip]

So if you do agree to take tests or classes, be sure that they are not a part of a 'plea deal' where you have to admit at least some level of guilt... .

I wouldn't bring up taking classes.

I would just quietly do it and tell your attorney once you start. Better that you took the initiative before anyone ordered it.

[Lost in Desert]

Skip, I would not say 24 times.  Plus, I do have a friend who would meet me at my apartment, we would chat and I would walk my dog at 10pm.  Sometimes he would leave me some for the following weekend.  I have a very demanding job during the week.   

I already am going to be forth coming as I was in the first screening, I was emotional and told her i last smoked either Late April or Early May, without looking at a calendar it was hard for me to get the date to be exact.  I last smoked May 19th to be exact.   I am not a heavy user by any stretch of the imagination.  I will request to take classes at the Clinic beginning this Friday evening.  That is a given since it came back positive.  My next court date is July 10th, so I am hoping to get on the track, burn some fat it is time any how, I usually am a fitness nut in my life.  In fact I am heading there now.

I am being as proactive as I can in all of this, the court recognized that in our last date.  The court does NOT recognize her as BPD yet, we have not gone to divorce court yet.  If that is where we are heading. GaGirl they do not test hair in NY.

[Skip]

Tell us, how many times did you smoke in the last 12 weeks and on what dates, where, who with, and what were the circumstances. In which of those cases was you daughter present?  Members can help you fashion a response from that information. Drill down, stay on track.

I respect that you don't want to do this.

I do encourage you to sit down, decide when and where, so you know what you are talking about and you don't contradict yourself. It sounds like the counselor is questioning the credibility of your answers. Whatever yo say can and will be used against you - including inconsistencies which will suggest that yo are not being truthful.

This approach is not always fair, but it is how it works.

I can honestly say, from your answers here, there are inconsistencies that will be used against you. At one point you say you "maybe smoked" in May.  Then it was 2 days a week for the last 12 weeks. Then it was something in the middle. I'm not questioning your honesty, I'm just saying that the courts will seize on inconsistency as a way to say you are not being honest.

You want to put together an answer that is factual and consistent and makes sense in the broader scheme of things.

Good luck tomorrow.

[ForeverDad]

Would the court see her providing you with weed as setting you up to look bad?  I guess it depends how long ago that was, also expect her to deny doing that so save any documentation of such events.

If she has been previously diagnosed with BPD then that ought to be helpful, though no one can promise how much.  Most of the time the courts focus on behaviors rather than seek a diagnosis, but a psych eval may indicate it.  More members here end up focusing on the poor behaviors, especially the poor (or lack of) parenting behaviors.  Generally courts don't care much about the blaming between adults, not unless it affect parenting.

[Lost in Desert]

Well I can see what you mean, but in all honesty, I was blindsided and I am still upset.  I wake up every morning at 4am, wondering why, how or when it all went wrong.  Plus, I am heartbroken that my wife, who I love dearly could so easily toss me aside as if I never existed.  We have not spoken since May 24th and this hurts me greatly, in fact just writing this makes me tear up.  Of course I now understand the whole BPD dynamic, the early stories in our relationship should have been red flags, instead it drew me in closer, made me want to protect her, help her feel safe, etc.  Then the talons were in me.  I could not escape, then I allowed myself to fall under her control in every facet.  So bad, my life ended up being work then home, and twice a month visiting with my parents.

She said my test came back 120 and I do not know what that means.  I did tell I am very fat considered my standards in life.  I told her I had smoked with a friend last in either Late April or Early May, looking at a calendar, I was able to back track my thoughts and zero in on the day, it was May 19th. During my session initially, I was crying, very upset cause at that time, I had yet to see my son, it was heart breaking and worrisome.  I was open with the counselor, I told her I had used it in the recent past as a sleep aide, my one buddy or wife would give me a little bit and I used it on the weekends only.  As I mentioned, my job is so demanding during the week, plus at night I would be with my child until 930 usually, then I would make my dinner around 930 to 10pm daily.

My time tomorrow will be clearer minded, I am getting past the heart ache of not having my wife around.  Like my sister says, when she has interacted with my wife, she is very nonchalant about things.

It is a very stressful environment, one that I have no experience in and it can be overwhelming.  I will ask to take part in a program and I will ask to be retested in Early July, my next court date is July 10th.  My goal is to shed 15lbs in the next three weeks and get back down to a respectful 185 then I can go back in the gym to get my weight back to the normal 165 to 175 range. 

I just walked 2 miles.  I should have been doing this from Day 1 of the order, but I did not.  I have to get a better grasp of my emotions, like my sister counselor said, I have to stop feeling like I am a failure, even though part of me feels this way, had I learned the ability to communicate better, based on her BPD, maybe I could have saved this marriage.  My lawyer also says, the fact I have several emails pleading with her, begging her to recognize the issues, trying to see if we could go to a Marriage Counselor, it was rejected each time, I WILL GET THE COUNSELOR against her.

So, i have my appointment tomorrow in the morning, if they ask, I will refuse, but my goal is to schedule my retest either Late June July 3rd. 

[ForeverDad]

I have to get a better grasp of my emotions, like my sister counselor said, I have to stop feeling like I am a failure, even though part of me feels this way, had I learned the ability to communicate better, based on her BPD, maybe I could have saved this marriage.

Intellectually, you know that nothing you could have done would have fixed her or saved the relationship.  While many marriages can be improved, her disorder made the marriage ultimately dysfunctional. 

Strange word that, dysfunctional.  Makes me remember the first time I heard about PDs.  I had called the local university's psychiatric desk and the man who answered said I lived just outside their county and so they couldn't do a home visit.  But then he added, "This sounds like a personality dysfunction."  That simple statement helped me to find out about Personality Disorders/Dysfunctions.  However that knowledge couldn't help me save the marriage.  She was no longer listening to me, nor by then anyone else.  (BPD is a disorder most evident/impacting to those closest to the pwBPD.  And our efforts are sabotaged by the pwBPD's emotional baggage of that close relationship.)  Our marriage imploded later that year.  I had to accept that.  If you haven't yet, read up on the 5 stages of grieving a relationship loss.

[Turkish]

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