Are false memories part of BPD?

[atmywitsendtoo]

Hi everyone,

The latest trauma/drama is that tonight my daughter got very upset with me and cursed me out because I told her she was having a false memory. This is not the first time I have disagreed with her about things that have happened in the past but this time I called it for what it was and she blew up. We were talking about her childhood and she made a remark about me always blaming her for a kitchen fire that I started when she was about 7 years old. I was trying to make french fries and was heating some oil. The oil caught on fire and stupidly I threw water on the fire which made it kind of explode. The house filled with smoke and I called 911. A big fire truck came and the firemen entered the house letting all three dogs out. Nothing caught on fire. There was just a bunch of smoke but no fire or smoke damage. It could have been bad but I was lucky and to me it turned into a funny self depreciating story about what an idiot I can be. I called my husband and told him what had happened and he teased me about my bone headed move of throwing water on an oil fire for years. Tonight my daughter said that I had always blamed her for that fire. I said that I had never blamed her for that fire. I asked her how I could have blamed her for that fire when I started it by throwing water on burning oil and she said that I just always blamed her. I kept saying that I had never once blamed her and I said if I blamed you how did I say the fire started? How did I say you started the fire? She just kept saying that I blamed her for it but I gave no specifics. I told her she was having a false memory and then she flew off the handle and cussed me out telling me that I was suffering from dementia. We were in the car when this happened. Just to be sure when we got home I asked my husband if he remembers me ever blaming her for that fire and he said no, of course not, but I did not confront her with this corroboration. Just keeping a mental note to tell her doctor that she has false memories. In my daughter's mind I am the villain and so this false memory just fits in with that.

Is having false memories common with BPD?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[MomMae]

Hi atmywitsendtoo,

I'm not sure if officially false memories are part of the characteristics of BPD, but my daughter, 20, certainly can have a totally different recall of events than what really happened.  I think that most of the time this has happened with her it has been more recent events, not from her childhood as you described with your daughter, but still her version of what happened does not match the reality.

It is very frustrating, and like you, I have tried to debate it with her and asked others to recall what happened too, just to ensure that I am not the one remembering wrong.  One that comes to mind is the last time my daughter moved/stormed out of our home, New Year's Day.  I was so blindsided by what happened, the entire event is burned into my memory.  She had moved back home for a month, all was going exceptionally well, she was working her first nursing job, happy, making plans for the future.  Literally overnight, it changed.  December 30, she left home happy, planned on spending the night at her BF's place and was to return the next morning to get ready for her afternoon shift.  Instead, she tried to pull some bogus thing about going to work from his place even though she didn't have her scrubs, etc.  I knew instinctively something was up and told her to come home as she promised.  She came home looking stoned, grabbed her stuff and said she was going to work (turns out she didn't) and would be home after her shift at 1am.  She never came home, would not answer texts, phone calls, etc - yet another night of escalating worry for us.  The next day I am getting texts from her boyfriend telling me what a horrible mother I am, give her all her stuff or they are calling the cops on us.

A few months later when she was home for a weekend, she told us her version of events.  That we had told her she could not see her boyfriend so she had to leave because she wanted to see him.  When I tried to tell her what really happened she just kept saying "NO, NO, NO".  The thing is, she seemed to truly believe her version.  Then, she said BF told her that I had said "such and such" (can't remember now exactly what it was) and that was the crux.  This was the turning point, when I told her there was no way for BF to know what I said as he WASN'T THERE.  Then I gave her a run down on what had transpired when she had happily left our home after chatting with her sister and I, even what we were talking about. It was like watching a balloon deflate, as she realized that I must be right, there was no way BF was there so he did not know anything that had been said.  She looked so confused, her dad and I actually felt very sorry for her.  All the fight drained out of her and she just wanted to sleep.  So not only was she confused herself, her nasty BF was/is busy putting false thoughts in her head. 

I understand your frustration, atmywitsendtoo, because I feel it too when my daughter has a totally different recall of events than I.  Because my daughter also lies a lot, it is sometimes difficult for me to tell when she is lying/embellishing or when she is experiencing false/confused memories.  It really scares me that a nasty person like her boyfriend can change her memories to suit his own purpose.  She says that she has stopped smoking pot, and it seems she has, (he's a total pot head), so hopefully she will not be as susceptible to his influence.

I'm glad that your husband was able to reassure you.  I was so glad my other non BPD daughter was able to corroborate what had happened on New Years.  Sometimes my BPD daughter is so adamant in her recall of events (or denial of events), my head begins to spin and I begin to doubt myself!

I think telling your daughter's doctor is a very wise idea.

[atmywitsendtoo]

Hi MomMae,

Thanks for your reply! When the false memory blow-up happened my daughter spoke to me in a very disrespectful manner cursing at me and telling me I had dementia. I am soo tired of being treated like you know what by her in my own home. It seems the only recourse I have to try to get her to stop cursing me out whenever the mood strikes her is to either  ask her to move out (which I have done in moments of anger) or to cut her off from the support I give her. She needs rides while her car is out of commission, she needs money for this and that, and she also needs me to persuade her father to do this or that for her such as fixing her car etc. So when she cursed me out about the false memory I told her I would not help her anymore. After these blow-ups she acts like nothing happened and assumes our relationship is in tact, but as far as I am concerned it is not in tact so I start refusing to help her with anything. The only problem is that this seems to have little to no effect on her behavior.

A couple of weeks ago things got so bad that as I was driving her to her appointment with her therapist she cursed me out about I cannot remember what and I told her that I wanted her to get out. She said fine and then demanded that I give her money that started as a small fund my mother started for her years ago which I invested and grew. She has demanded this money on and off over the years and now I remember another false memory or exaggeration she came up with. When I told her I was not going to give her that money she said that I forced her to allow me to put the money in my name. What really happened was that she wanted to try to get financial aid for college so we both decided to transfer the money from a joint account to an account that is in my name only. I told her that I in no way forced her to sign papers to put the money i my name and that we had both agreed to do that so that she might have a better chance of qualifying for financial aid. Another twisted memory in her head once again putting me in the role of villain. So as I was driving her to her therapist she was going on and on saying that she would be happy to move out if I gave her that money to do it with. I pointed out to her that if I gave her that money she would no longer qualify for the health insurance she has and needs since she is pregnant, but she said she didn't care about that she just wanted her money.

When we got to the therapists office I asked if I could participate in their session because we were having a bit of a crisis. After talking to my daughter alone for a while the therapist invited me in and I tried to get her to understand the situation at hand. The therapist dissuaded my daughter from continuing to demand her money and she got me to say that I had asked her to move out in a moment of anger. The therapist said that she would make arrangements for my daughter and I to continue therapy together and she gave us the homework assignment of reading a book about relationships. I went home and ordered a copy of the book for each of us. When the books arrived I tried to give a copy to my daughter and she would not take it saying that she was not going to read it because she had way too much other reading to do. My daughter has no idea how insulting that was and and how telling it was about how little she values and prioritized our relationship. She takes me for granted period. I cannot wait until our joint therapy sessions begin so I can tell my daughter's therapist how seriously she took that assignment.

I was a French major and there is a famous French play that reminds me of all of this. It is called No Exit and it tells the story of a handful of people locked in a room or an apartment together for eternity and as time goes by they get on each others nerves and they start to develop negative patterns with one another and these negative patterns keep repeating themselves in their behavior  and get more intense. They all drive each other increasingly crazy and they cannot get away from each other. The deeper meaning of the play is that they were actually in hell, and hell is other people. That is what it feels like with my daughter. We drive each other increasingly crazy and we cannot get away from one another. It is called Huis Clos by Jean Paul Sartre. Sorry I digress... .

Thanks for reading and for your reply!

Best,

atmywitsendtoo

[MomMae]

Hi Atmywitsendtoo,

I can hear your frustration and I so understand.  I am so sorry for all that you are dealing with.  It is very hard to be validating when you are being treated with disrespect, particularly when the facts are all skewed.  Been there and done that time and time again.  I have been working on not getting angry in these situations because then I just feel guilty and that I am part of the problem.  But, on the other hand, if I don't speak up and let her version of events stand, I end up being the one feeling invalidated and like a doormat.  Sometimes it feels like all my daughter wants to do is argue and, as you say, she turns it around and makes me the never-ending villain.  That feels awful.  I have had a over a month's break from being placed in that role as she was basically ignoring me, which is a whole other form of pain...

She came for a visit a few days ago and it went really well.  She was planning on moving back to town,(she lives in deplorable conditions with a rotten bf in the middle of nowhere), but she apparently just learned yesterday her benefits have been revoked because she has been living with BF for over 3 months, so therefore they are considered a couple and he must support her.  If it is not one thing, it is another... .so exhausting.

It is great that you have a therapist that you really like and that you can participate together with your daughter.  Since your daughter did respond to the therapist dissuading her from asking you for the money, it seems she can listen to reason from others, even when it involves you.  So maybe that is something that can be built on as you continue therapy together.  I would love to have therapy with my daughter to help us better understand each other.  There are so little resources available to us because of where we live and we have no private insurance coverage.

She takes me for granted period.

I am sure you are right... .she very likely does take you for granted because you are an awesome mother who is there for her time and again.  I have felt the exact same way many, many  times, not only with BPD daughter, but also with my other children.  I have found that sometimes when I purposely prioritize myself or my relationship with my husband, it helps.  Though difficult, it feels good to say, "Sorry, I can't do that for you right now" because I am doing such and such.  Then I give some suggestions on how they can handle it themselves, or when it would be convenient for me to help. (and I try  not to feel guilty for doing this   )

I hope today is a good day. 

MM

[Rosey87]

In my experience I feel that there is some type of correlation with BPD and false memories.

My girlfriend/ex accused me of beating her one night horrendously. Claims I punched her in the face fifty times and made her count. This was before I thought she had BPD and blew up and asked her, where the hell were the marks? She replied, "I had a giant welt under my skin by my eye."

Rolls eyes.

It's some type of defense/coping mechanism for them I feel. What's worse is they actually believe what they say, at least she does. They want so hard to punish others in some type of way. It hurts me and I know she is hurting too.

All my best.

[atmywitsendtoo]

Yes, in all of her false memories I am cast as the villain when in reality there is nobody who has done more for her than I have. I have always asked her why she treats me so poorly when I am the one who treats her so very well. I am the big push over in the family saying yes more often than no, always thinking of her and what is good for her, always willing to help her, always going out of my way for her, always giving her plenty of latitude & cutting her slack because she has a disability. It is her father who always tells her no and who is harsh with her, but it is me she punishes and curses at and accuses of doing horrible things that I never did.

Her doctor explained that people with BPD do not always perceive reality as it is and that is why they believe their false memories so strongly because even though what the accuse someone of may have never happened that is what they perceived happened. It is hard to understand and hard to stomach, but I know that she believes awful things about me when she should know that I am her biggest advocate.

Thanks for your reply!

[jones54]

I feel your pain. My 32 BPD daughter frequently confabulates the past to fit her own needs. She lately has always been complaining what a terrible father I am. Her mother walked out on myself and our 2 children when they were young teens. I raised them by myself. She is a severe drug addict starting with alcohol and has progressed to heroin. I have sent her to multiple rehab clinics around the country. She has been in and out of detox multiple times. By the grace of God she is now sober for 18 months and actually is enrolled in Grad school to get an MSW with extra credits in addiction counseling. I am grateful for that but it has not stopped the berating of me. She blames all her problems in the past on me. She states I am the reason she drinks and uses drugs. I have never hurt her in any way. She recently threatened to tell "the whole world" what a terrible father I am by putting a post on facebook to her so called 535 "friends", some who know me. I told her this would be wrong and said if she did I would no longer pay for her Grad school tuition (just trying to be nice again). Well, last weekend she posted and told how her family had deserted her. At one time she was drugging, stopped and wanted to move back home. I talked with others and they said if you cannot trust her do not do it. I refused to let her back in and she actually had to stay at a homeless shelter. She now tells everyone on facebook that I left her homeless (not mentioning all the drugging she had done). One time in the past she asked to bring a friend for Thanksgiving since he had no place to go for the holiday. I said yes, that is fine. Later I find out he was a crack dealer (in my own house!). I am like everyone else, she is driving me crazy. All I can say is that I think we give them too many passes and make excuses for them. I have been the worst enabler. I fear she will die from suicide (BPD's have 10% suicide rate). Many, including a therapist, have said there is nothing you can do. You just have to have acceptance for the things you cannot control. I have insisted she post a correction to the half truths she wrote on Facebook. She took the Post down but insists that she told no lies so refuses. She is determined she is right and believes what she feels. She is seeing a new therapist who does not know all her past but I am hopeful she can help her because I no longer can. She always plays the victim and never can accept blame for her actions in the past. I think the BPD will make up stories about the past because they are afraid to admit their own short comings. They feel safer this way instead of seeing reality.  It has to be part of their mental illness. So sad.

[atmywitsendtoo]

Hi Jones54,

Yes, we are in the same boat except luckily my daughter is not a substance abuser - she is abusive with no substance to fuel her on or to blame it on. My husband and I keep saying we better get away from her before we become too old and feeble to care for ourselves because I can see how elder abuse might come into the picture if our daughter was in charge.

She has always been exceptionally angry with me. When she was about 8 or 9 (I know this is going to sound crazy) she was so constantly angry with me I told her to smack me to get it out of her system. She smacked me good, problem is it did absolutely nothing to get anything out of her system. That is how at my wits end I was and how clueless I was about what I had done to make her so angry with me so I figured a good smack might make her feel like she had gotten me back for whatever it was I had done.

When my daughter was in middle school her behavior was out of line and she started having seizures at the same time that her behavior started going off the rails at school. She would hit other kids for no reason and once she took a marker and scribbled all over another child's clothing. Teachers and administrators were aware that this behavior started with her seizures, but they did not deal with her appropriately. They isolated her, put her behind a book case, made her stand outside in the rain, and more. I kept advocating on her behalf trying to explain to teachers and other school officials how to de-escalate rather than worsen her behavior by the way they reacted to her. Advocating for her through this period of time was agonizing. I was on my own with no kind of emotional or intellectual support, also dealing with doctors who made things worse not better. Because adults in school treated my daughter like a pariah (and due to her inappropriate behavior) the children followed suit and did not want to have anything to do with her.

My daughter remembers this as her miserable childhood which she blamed me for 100% until recently. Yesterday we went for a walk and my daughter who is pregnant started saying that she was thinking of homeschooling her child because she was so miserable in school. For the first time ever she put the blame where it at least in part belonged, she blamed the way the school was run, she blamed the teachers who treated her poorly and the administrators who allowed this to go on. For the first time she did not blame me the one person who was working hard to improve things for her back then. I believe her new insight into one of the causes of her past misery is due to therapy she started a couple of month ago. Her first shot at therapy and I believe it is helping.

I feel for you Jones54! This happens in other parts of my life as well. The saying "no good deed goes unpunished" applies to me often as I stick my neck out for troubled clients in the work that I do.

I believe the therapist you spoke with is correct. There is nothing you can do for your daughter that you have not already done. You have been an exceptional father and you should know this even if your daughter is blind to it. I think BPD people have a really hard time with empathy and they have no idea of what it might feel like to be anyone but themselves. Your daughter is not capable of putting herself in your shoes so she cannot understand the position you were in that caused you to decide not to let her come home or how gut-wrenchingly difficult that decision must have been for you. In my experience my BPD daughter lacks emotional intelligence and so cannot predict or understand reactions to her behavior.

Wishing you and you daughter all the best!

atmywitendtoo