Setting limits around marijuana use for BPDs

[Pureheart]

This is my first post and I'm grateful to have the support of this community.  My BPD son is 18, and I would appreciate input about the limits we've set and if I need a more creative problem solve. He began using weed last year as a coping skill from a bad breakup, but it quickly took over his life (the results were school failure, no motivation, loss of jobs, etc, even kicked out of a substance abuse program because he couldn't stay clean).   We have always had a clear limit: no car privilege unless a clean drug test.   We have even incentivized him, offering to match his paycheck (when he had a job, thinking the greater payoff would directly link responsibility to rewards and show him the benefits of keeping the car privilege).    He also attended a boarding school voluntarily in the fall because he knew his life needed a change.  Fast forward to January when he got  home, maintained for 1 month and then right back to using.     On a VERY positive note, he is enrolled in a DBT program (became suicidal/self harm in March/April) and goes twice a week, and I go to parent group as well.  My question is this:  I recently communicated that it's time to drug test soon (as I know he started using again) and He became very upset.  He says he's doing everything right and has proven that he can be responsible when using.  He is currently going to 2 classes and 2 therapy sessions per week= 5 hours of responsibility/week which he has done successfully for 2weeks.  I have validated that this is a huge step and how proud I am of him.  But I also maintain that re: driving, his safety, our liability, and not enabling irresponsibility are MY values that need to be considered, not just his desire to use.  He would like me to stay out of his weed use and just let him "learn on his own", all the while using our car and our $ to pay for gas, insurance, fast food, etc.  In the meantime, other than his two classes and two therapy sessions, nothing is required of him, he goes out with friends almost every night, wakes up when he wants, no chores or contributions to family etc.  As long as he's getting what he wants he's loving and easier to be around, but set a limit and I am verbally attacked and vilified.  He has flat out told me he's not losing the car, that his self esteem is finally improving because he's been independent, and has threatened cutting, giving up, or to move out(which won't happen because he expects us to pay for him!).   He says I expect perfection and he "thought I'd be happy for him since he's become responsible (after two weeks!).  I obviously want To encourage going to school, DBT, independence, etc., but am I just supposed to turn a blind eye to his drug use and basically zero-demands lifestyle, and fund it to boot?  To me it just feels like I would be totally enabling him, and he will have no motivation to stop using, get a job, graduate etc. Conversely, the havoc on our family when he gets depressed is so awful, and I have a 12 year old daughter I'm trying to give a "normal" life... .so if anyone can see a problem solve from a different angle please let me know. Thank you! 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Lollypop]

Hi there pureheart

Welcome to the forum. I'm very pleased you've found us but sorry what brought you here. Trying to cope with our kids and their behaviours is just exhausting and at times very confusing.

I have an adult son 26 who is a long term MJ smoker. That's what he'd say, but the fact is he smokes skunk, a far stronger version that is seriously affecting his mental health. I also have a younger son16 so we are similar in trying to protect the younger one. It's certainly not easy!

I completely understand where you're at.

am I just supposed to turn a blind eye to his drug use and basically zero-demands lifestyle, and fund it to boot?  To me it just feels like I would be totally enabling him, and he will have no motivation to stop using, get a job, graduate etc

Each of us is unique and our own situation is different. What you may find acceptable I may not and vice versa. This is about you finding what is acceptable for yourself and what sits comfortably with your life and your home.

The fact if the matter for me is that my DS26 has resisted growing up, he's been reluctant to accept the responsibility to take care of himself. I kept saving him and not allowing him to suffer the consequences of his actions.

Finally at 24, I stopped giving him money and placed the responsibility for his well being onto him where it belongs. But my DS is 26 and not 18 and I found it particularly confusing at that age because of this "part boy part man" stage. I let him alone to go his merry old way because it was easier and then I ended up deeply resenting the situation.

Like many here, I've a long sad story but things have dramatically improved since I joined the forum. I've learnt a lot of new skills that help me interact and have given me the confidence to set boundaries for myself and limits in my home. My DS26 is currently living with us. I've found a more effective way of parenting and to cope with his moods.

Is your son taking any prescribed medication?

Is he driving his own car or yours?

LP

[Pureheart]

Hi Lollypop and thanks for responding!  My son has a long history of med trials with varying results, but to sum it up nothing really worked well, and the side effects usually outweighed any benefit.  He recently got off all medication,  and he is determined not to go back on anything. In his mind weed is "natural", far better for hm than any chemical pharmaceutical, so he wonders why we were ok with him taking chemicals and not a natural plant (maybe bc we were seeing one of the best psychiatrists in the country, hoping to rewire the maladaptive firings in his brain/neuroplasticity). i believe there were some benefits to the medication, but it was never THE answer, and he's 18 now so I can't force it and wouldn't want to anyway.  Regarding the car:  yes it is a car we've (husband and I) owned for years and just kept when we got new cars, so our name is on the title, we pay insurance, gas etc.  We don't mind supporting him in this way if he is on the road to responsible living.  But now with weed back in the picture, I have several issues.  1) SAFETY.  He says he doesn't drive high, but as you know we can't trust that. 2) LIABILITY.  What happens if he does serious harm to someone while driving, high or not, and is tested for mj.  Because our name is on title and we pay insurance couldn't we be sued for large sums of money?   3) ENABLING IRRESPONSIBILITY  (no job, only 2 classes but out every night) 4) INTERFERES WITH DBT SKILLs. We are investing time and resources into DBT, but if he's using weed to cope, he won't need to use the skills he's learning. 

Thanks for listening.  I'm just wondering if there's something I'm not thinking of that would respect my issues AND allow him some perceived freedom around this issue. 

[Lollypop]

Hi Pureheart

he wonders why we were ok with him taking chemicals and not a natural plant

I am used to this line of thinking. There's a lot of information out there that condones and promotes MJ as being a wonder drug and your son provides you his own view of a reasoned argument just as my DS26 did. There's a huge movement against the large pharmaceutical industry by the young. Just because it is natural it doesn't mean that it doesn't harm you. You've said yourself that you saw a deterioration in him when he started using.

These are some of the pro-MJ comments I've heard over the years:
"I can stop when I want to"
"It's a natural herb"
"Everybody smokes pot"
"I'm different than others, I'm immune to the negative effects"
"I will always smoke it and I will allow my kids to - there's nothing wrong with it."

After 12 years of smoking he's finally started to understand that it is in fact doing him a LOT of harm; most of his behaviours can be attributed to the weed. His psychiatrist was firm and clear "it is the elephant in the room".

I encourage you to read up on MJ and do your own research so you have the knowledge.  I also encourage you to read and learn about BPD, as much as you can.  Knowledge is power.  This will help you decide on what you think you should do.

I'm like you. I'm happy to provide some emotional support while my DS is moving forwards. There's a problem though, they may not always be moving forwards towards responsible living - progress isn't always linear. There are no quick fixes and it's extremely difficult to not feel resentful about the situation that I've actually created. I'm currently enabling and this does not sit comfortably with me at all. I'm letting you know this so you can see there may be troubles ahead that you may want to be aware about.

This is where my long term plan comes into place to help keep me stay focussed on my goal - to get my adult son to move out and prepared as best as we can for him to live independently successfully (he's had three attempts and failed each time because of addiction and finances at 18, 21 and 24).

1. Safety.  My son is not safe to drive (it isn't like alcohol and weed stays in the system for a few days and regardless, he smokes every day anyway).  I live with this fear each day but he has to work. Any repairs/maintenance he pays for them himself.
2. Liability. The car is in his name, he paid for it with money he earned including the car insurance.
3. Enabling responsibility.  Respectfully, if your son is able to go out each night then he is able to work and pay for a car.
4. Interferes with DBT skills. Yes it does.

My DS was refused treatment because he smokes weed. We were outraged at first - now I can see that this is absolutely correct. He lives his entire life experiencing a different reality, he's had to increase his intake to achieve his view of "normality" until such a point that he needs more and more.  He's passive and he finds it very difficult to problem solve, his memory is poor.

I'm sorry if I come over a bit curt but after 18 months of ignoring the weed issue to focus on greater priorities, the weed has reared it's ugly head.  I have achieved my goals 1 (better relationship) and 2 (finance skills) and am working on 3 (get him independent).  His drug use IS the elephant my room and I cannot ignore it any longer as the addiction is having such a negative impact on his life. I can't continue to validate the invalid any longer and so, because we have a good relationship now, I can safely challenge him on this (particularly as he's very much struggling coping with life). I'm very hopeful he's close to seeking treatment and drug counselling (we will pay for the treatment, it won't be indefinitely and it will stop if he isn't putting as much effort in as we are).

I wish somebody had told me what I'm telling you now.  Enabling responsibility is achieved by treating them like an adult. I always came up with an excuse as to why I couldn't do that, I just didn't have faith in his abilities and I was always so very frightened of him making mistakes. I see now that making mistakes is how we ALL learn.

Your son is 18 and much younger than mine. My story isn't your story but I hope that you can learn from my experiences and my mistakes. I don't regret my approach over the last 18 months, I'd never won over the drugs issue and couldn't make him stop but I do have hope now.

If you turn a blind eye (and i make no judgement on this) to your son smoking weed will you stop the drug testing?

LP

[Yepanotherone]

Hi there , I'll just throw in my two cents given that my BPD DD 17 year old driving is a huge issue for us to and has been for many months since we discovered her drug abuse .( she had been driving frequently under the influence , as high as anything , and we had no idea ).  We simply do not allow it now, it's an absolute hard fast rule. The car that she has is in our name , our insurance , our liability . She screws up , it's ultimately on us as we knowingly let her continue to drive despite the risks .So we just don't . The car has sat in the drive for months , doing nothing . The keys are stashed away . I had a friend in Florida who's son was involved in a horrific car accident and he almost died . One year on they are caring for him at home now but he's in a permanent vegetative state , his head injury was so severe . He had been driving under the influence of marijuana . So driving and substance abuse is an absolute no go for me and my DD knows this . She can throw tantrums , manipulate , bully and try to blackmail me all she likes . The car stays in the drive until we know she is consistently responsible and safe . And that might not ever happen ! The sheer inconvenience for me having to taxi her around everywhere is rough , but I'd rather have that than be feeling terrified every time she's out in the car .

[Yepanotherone]

LP I've realised I'm still treating my DD like a child by micromanaging everything for her ( I do this only because she won't do a thing for herself ). I really need to take your advice and allow her to fail and make these mistakes . I know this . It's just that as a mum , it's so hard to know that the consequences for her are potentially mind blowing . If she gets into any more trouble legally , especially with drugs , then that will create immigration / potential deportation issues for her . We are only on green cards , we aren't yet citizens . I know this is a real concern , it's not just scare tactics. My DD however just does not grasp the reality of what she might be doing to her whole future . She has yet to see that she has far more to lose than her friends " just getting busted for weed , it's no big deal mum Jeez ".

[Lollypop]

Hi Yep

The thing is we are all different and our circumstances unique. What works for one just may not be appropriate for another. All we can do is share our experiences and hope it helps somebody along.

There's a huge difference between somebody in their 20s to somebody in their late teens. Hand on heart my DS didn't start maturing until 24 and now at 26 we can talk adult to adult. I like to think of it as late development so I don't get discouraged.

I once asked him "did I ever have any chance of controlling you at all?".  He said "no, mum, you didn't".  At 18 i still had some influence, by 20 none. My own micro managing and obsession in trying to "fix" had the opposite effect and he ended up lying most of the time thus fueling the situation. I was just so reactive to this tortured young man trying to be "cool". Our main problem was that I allowed our relationship to break down. Without a good relationship not much can be achieved and you both feel isolated from one another. I just kept on providing him with possessions, opportunities that were not deserved. I was in FOG all the time. This is not effective parenting.

I understand that getting the balance for late teenagers is extremely difficult. Some of us have tight reins, some of us try loosening them so they get the feel of what it's like to be a bit free. I totally understand about the potential consequences with your daughter and your green cards. That must be a big worry for you.

Do you think that being in the green card does offer her some protection if she did get into some serious trouble? As a citizen she'll then have to face the laws that come with that privilege. That may not be helpful but I thought I'd point it out just in case there was a real problem.

Parenting teenagers is not easy. Parenting adults isn't easy. BPD and traits thrown in makes our kids reluctant to take the responsibility for themselves, my experience is that they resist. We do the best we can with what we know at any time.

I stick by my mantra. We all learn by our mistakes. You can try and prevent them happening but eventually our kids have to fly the nest and it's scary if they haven't got the resilience.

It's just ssssoo complicated at times my head hurts trying to work out what to do for the best.

Hugs

LP

[Gorges]

Not driving was a limit that we also set with our daughter.  She basically chose MJ over driving and we stopped giving her rides unless it was to something we wanted to see her go to.  She went to college, left during her second semester (withdrew and didn't fail out) and worked and lived in an apartment she paid for.  She screwed up a couple more times with very poor choices including quitting the job that supported her.  She is now going to a therapist on her own and SAYS that she no longer smokes.  At least she no longer talks about all the natural benefits of MJ.   She knows that something is wrong in her life and that she needs to change.  She says that drugs contribute to her lack of coping skills.  At this point her therapist is asking that she not communicate with me (or at least she says this) but she does get a ride to community college with my husband so I am not sure what is going on with her in this area.  Also, I imagine us moving to a relationship where I don't hear about it anymore.  I think we both want a very different relationship. I really do not want to hear about all her problems anymore.  Her choices created her problems so she is responsible for fixing them. 

As far as driving now, she does want to get a drivers license just to have it.  She just failed a drivers test and will try again in a month.  We are not sure if she will drive her car or get one from another relative or pay for one herself.   Since she doesn't live with us we don't want to do the drug tests or room searches.  I would say if she is living a highly functional life (college full-time) then we might consider her using our car if we think it is something she needs.  If she works full time she can pay for a car and insurance herself.

[Yepanotherone]

LP , being green card holders ( permanent residents )does not offer any protection at all , my DD is still treated under the same laws etc than citizens have to abide by . In fact only being permanent residents ( greencard holders ) means that we can still be deported if we aren't abiding by the laws . Now myself , my hubby and my older daughter are obviously law abiding , but if my BPD DD gets into any more trouble particularly with drugs then she will be unlikely to qualify for citizenship and she'll be deported . Immigration has absolutely no tolerance for drug abuse of any kind . She's been told that because she's a minor right now and because her crime is fairly minor ( possession of marijuana), then if she abides by the terms and conditions agreed with her probation officer ,then this episode  this will be wiped off her record . Marijuana is legal here in the state of Colorado so again , it's treated as a very minor offense ( the crime she commited was being under the age of 21 and using it in a public place ) But regardless , if she gets into any more trouble then it's comprising her immigration status here  it's a real worry for us and not one she seems to have really truely grasped . We can apply for citizenship in one year 's time . Once we are citizens the immigration and deportation risks no longer apply . But she's got to keep her nose squeaky clean .
Gorges , did your DD self harm at all when she was 17 ?