She doesn't know whether wants her to stay here or move home

[Pedro]

Hello folks.

The ex gf BPD has returned home from her 4 day working trip with her employer, a repeat of what she did last month.
  
I come in from work after her & immediately start cooking dinner offer to make her some as I have to use up food that's gonna go out date so enough for 2. She's started smoking AGAIN for the 2nd-3rd time this year, which I know she does when she becomes stressed.  Asks me to stand in the garden & have one with her 4 times as I kept refusing, & my excuse was I was making dinner which I was. She wanted to "catch up on our week" as we haven't spoke in 4 days.

She will send a routine text now as an ex which we used to do all the time as a couple when either 1 of us had a particularly long drive somewhere, just to let each other know we arrived safe in 1 piece. I just given give a token response of okay now. No kisses or x's anymore either 1 of us now in texting etiquette

We got onto talking about politics as in the UK today I am voting on the new Prime Minister national vote.  :)epending on your point of view the 3 main candidates in the UK are not inspirational or easy to decide on. We then speak about USA politics which I probably know 0.000% about? She talks about how things would be economically if she returns home to TX whenever she goes home. Would she be better off here or in the US financially? I tell her you're asking the wrong person.  She has a good job here that pays well.

Then she gets on about saying 'she doesn't know whether god wants her to stay here or move home'? I tell her only you & god know that.  Now she starts talking about moving to another part of the country with her job that she said last time she went to work away last month.  She keeps chopping/changing her mind.

After dinner she gives me a massive hug & thanks me for cooking, but I do not reciprocate it. Whens she talks to me, I to a lesser degree am sort of not giving her my full attention anymore, & I know she's aware of that.

Not reciprocating her gestures, words, hugs & full attention, am I making things worse for me if I thought she would be reaching out to me? Doe she see this as a knockback to her?

Am I doing the right thing here with my behaviour?  She does have a boyfriend now, and in my last few posts I have stated that I am moving on with my life.  it's hard walking this fine line that Skip has mentioned & guide me with the last 6-7 weeks?

Any comments would be gratefully appreciated.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Skip]

Then she gets on about saying 'she doesn't know whether god wants her to stay here or move home'? I tell her only you & god know that.  Now she starts talking about moving to another part of the country with her job that she said last time she went to work away last month.  She keeps chopping/changing her mind.

After dinner she gives me a massive hug & thanks me for cooking, but I do not reciprocate it. Whens she talks to me, I to a lesser degree am sort of not giving her my full attention anymore, & I know she's aware of that.

Not reciprocating her gestures, words, hugs & full attention, am I making things worse for me if I thought she would be reaching out to me? Doe she see this as a knockback to her?

Am I doing the right thing here with my behaviour?  She does have a boyfriend now, and in my last few posts I have stated that I am moving on with my life.  it's hard walking this fine line that Skip has mentioned & guide me with the last 6-7 weeks?

It's a fine line. Pedro.

You are doing the right thing and not advising her about her relationship and move. And you did it graciously. You don't want to catch every time she trips and falls.

You are doing the right thing not to over react like a puppy to a dog treat every time she shows you some self doubt and leans a little in your directions.

You are engaging in things that are for the two of you - like going places - and making that the most fun it can be.

I think the most important thing is not so much getting it exactly right - its more important not to make things worse. You are doing that.

When you try to assess, look at the bigger picture. She knows you care. You haven't kicked her out, you are being warm when you two have quality time. Your casual and getting on with life in the day to day.

Hard to do... .but you're doing it.

[Pedro]

Sorry everybody if I am getting on your nerves with may what many of you would think are minor issues in comparison to people who are in a worse place than myself.
Ex gf BPD also says she's staying here till next year so she can complete in a full marathon within the first 4 months of the year.  Not that it's any of my business but someone who has been adamant that for the last 6-7 weeks that they are moving home before the end of this year lock stock & barrel, you wouldn't stay back for months for that. 
It's none of my business now & I try hard not to read into things that she will or will not be doing. Just gotta try getting on with my life alone Not easy everybody.

[Skip]

Is she still doing marathon calls to the unmet "boyfriend"?

[onelittleladybug]

Ex gf BPD also says she's staying here till next year so she can complete in a full marathon within the first 4 months of the year.

Hmmmm... .Putting aside trying to decipher what she is thinking, what are the practical implications? Will she still be living with you?

[Pedro]

Hi Skip,

Yes last night & all last week up to her travelling away for work on Monday morning just gone, yes the marathon Skype phone calls.

One littleladybug,

I made the decision when she ended the relationship that she could live here still & my reasons are as follows:

Financially she could not afford to move out as she had invested £ thousands into renovating our home.

Wrongly or rightly I felt it was her home too & she could live here until our separation legal/financial issues are finalised.

I know I have the right as the property owner asking her to leave giving her notice to leave.

Things are a bit easier in terms of cohabiting compared to 7 weeks ago.  I will just take one week at at a time.  She is in TX US for most of July visiting her family & HIM, so maybe time away she can reflect if BPD's can do that. I feel that next month will be the decisive time for her, but painful as it is I keep going one day at a time preparing to go forward alone unfortunately.

[Pedro]

Thursday evening whilst talking politics amongst other things she suggested watching a film at home this Saturday evening. I take some things with a pinch of salt that she says as she can change her mind or 'forget' what she has said.  I don't know if that's a trait with BPD's or as we say in England 'a woman's prerogative'.  Without sounding sexist women the world over 'move the goalposts' to serve their own needs & wants.
Went into the city for myself today, had coffee, bit food shopping & bought a dvd that I thought we would both like. Being thoughtful not faithful dog or mothering her, bought her a small amount of her favourite American candy & salted popcorn.
I arrive back home unpack shopping & remind her about watching a dvd tonight. She says 'no it doesn't matter'.  I didn't react or give her the pleasure of seeing my displeasure.  I said 'I'm going to watch it & enjoy my evening'.  She was the one that suggested this & I didn't make other plans so we would do this.
I don't actively suggest or propose doing things together this was her idea. I will keep that mentality going for my own sanity.

[Pedro]

Hi.

Just come back from a running exercise this morning. Just driving outside the house & she says "when I get back from America we need to get the house finished in terms of minor decorating & bits & pieces, then get it on the market to be sold later in the year".

I'm absolutely gutted & devastated, not that I did expect to reconcile I had hoped with all the learning, self educating, guidance & advice given from yourselves as well as doing things for myself, putting me first being selfish would be beneficial not just in terms of myself & self esteem & sanity, but helpful in reconciling.  On the way home from our run we drove to an old scenic route miles away near to where she used to live in the countryside, she's calling me by my pet names, baby, hun, honey etc, being all touchy feely holding my hand affectionately.

I would like to place on record her my sincere thanks to in particular Skip, heartandwhole, livednlearned, & other site staff who at this moment in time who's name's I cannot recall thank you so much.

My heart is truly broken, my ex gf with BPD didn't show her symptoms initially because when we first met & for a few months after dating they weren't present, I would say 4-5 months was when I first noticed.  I know from reading here & looking at behaviours & reflecting back now I fell in love with someone who was symptom free, because we took our time to get to know each other.

My ex & I are quite spiritually minded & aware of certain things around us, (sorry not meaning to offend non-believers), qualified mediums & Spiritualist Church speaker on numerous times told us both that we would be a forever couple growing old together, we would be joined at the hip for life. Yes I know what hard work it takes to maintain a happy fulfilling relationship, more so with someone with BPD.

I know this will be taken to a new thread on ':)etaching From The Wounds Of A Failed Relationship', but un fortunately I will not be participating in it. To site staff here please do not take that as an insult please, I just need to deal with things in my own way like I've always done.

I love my ex partner so much.

[Skip]

Nothing has really changed.

She wants to go, she wants to stay, she want to relocate with her job, she wants to... .

It's like a child in a candy store and she can have anything she wants so she is blinded with opportunity.

Plus, subconsciously or consciously, she can test where you are emotionally by hugging you, pulling back and saying lets sell the house, etc.  This is really selfish of her, but it is where she is at the moment. Just be aware and don't get played.

[Pedro]

Thanks Skip,

hard not to be played.  Head & practicalities will now have to be started on solicitor, finances, looking for another property to buy, so at least i can move on and be ready, thanks.

[Pedro]

Well the ex gf BPD does her first of 4 days of mini marathons today. She hugs me affectionately last night & thanks me for agreeing to go & support her at her request. She's says she wouldn't have been able to do this this week without me.
No change otherwise, she's loved up more than ever with new boyfriend via Skype.
Guess I've unwantedly help smooth the transition between leaving me & moving on to him, well 3 weeks today till she's arrived home in TX and cementing the relationship in the real.

[Pedro]

The routine repeats itself. Is routine learned behaviour or is it genuine love & affection?
To those of you who have read some of my posts over the last couple of months there is more of the same behaviour yesterday.
Ex partner does her 1st of 4 days of half marathons & runs. Like running weekend a few weeks ago this week's running event was booked last year when we were a couple. She asked me to support her this week for her 4 runs Which I agreed to do. She's all insecure & unconfident at the starting line, begging & wishing I was running with her. Still giving me an affectionate loving hug/embrace & kiss, then telling me she loves me. Does her race all good. We get home & I go straight to bed its evening races, plus I get up at 5.30 am for work. Getting into bed in 'my bedroom now' she interrupts me stood there naked hugging me thanking me for supporting her just before she has a soak in the bath.
Then I'm I. Bed she's in the other bedroom after that talking to her boyfriend as normal.

[Pedro]

Am detaching as much as possible with ex gBPD.  Have done everything that predominantly Skip and  heartandwhole advised or asked me to consider to try & save/reconcile the relationship. I wont be participating should you move this to the Detaching From The Wounds Of  A Failed Relationship.

I've tried as humanly as possible given how a I feel about my ex gf BPD in terms of finding out how used to be before her illness swallowed me up & spat me out as if 6 years as a couple, & 5.5 years living together have been wiped clean from her memory bank.  I've worked on being this attractive, fun happy caring adventurous I used to be. I've started looking after me, getting out of the house, going out, losing weight, getting fitter & healthier, not letting her dictating what, where, how & when we do are (rather not do anything together when a couple for the last 12 months).

We have had the most fun, laughter, happiness I think in the last 2 months than we did in the previous 12 months which has made me feel how I felt when she was stable & not going through episodes of BPD . I don't get still despite people telling me so here how she can still be affectionate with hugs, tenderness, affection, constantly telling me she loves me, holding my hand as if we were a couple but we are not because she has Mr Wonderful, & their relationship seems as strong as ever if not stronger from the amount of time they spend on Skype tele video calls every day.

In terms od detaching from ex I am polite saying good morning & or goodnight every day or so as we still cohabit. She still insists on hugging me but I don't reciprocate now.

I don't let her come running with me this week, I wouldn't attend our local Spiritualist church Monday last week with her. I don't need to hear from a Medium at the alter in the real how she & Mr Wonderful in Houston are going to be a permanent fixture. She was not happy I wouldn't go.

After doing her 4 continuous days of competition running last week/week-end, she kept telling me how she "couldn't have done all 4 days of running without me motivating" her to do it or without my support. How after she is one of the slower runners, I stayed at the finishing line to cheer her on after most people had gone home.  When we got home from last race on Sunday I was cleaning dishes in the kitchen, after her shower she walks up behind me, gives me a long affectionate loving prolonged hug like she used to do as a couple, kissed my neck, said I love you.  She won't discuss us reconciling or her BPD, so frustrating but I've tried my best.

I can't cope with this. She's having my pet name for her tattooed on her neck before she goes home 2 weeks tomorrow. It's not fair. Thanks Skip & heartandwhole mostly for all your support & advice here, it's been invaluable.

[heartandwhole]

Hi Pedro,

You've been handling this well, and I really admire your ability to stay balanced (for the most part) while going through this. I think many of us on this site would not be able to deal with what you've been dealing with. Well, I'll speak for myself: I wouldn't, and couldn't. I got a little taste of what you are describing—the affection, the plan-making, etc., then suddenly talking about moving to another country (alone), or deciding to rekindle a previous relationship, as if it was perfectly normal and had no effect on me.

I'm afraid this is what you've got at the moment. I can imagine the heartbreak of potentially losing this home that you are living in. Does that prospect feel very difficult for you, or do you think it would help you detach, i.e., in a new place, you wouldn't have shared memories?

Hang in there, Pedro. Just because she says you need to sell the house today, doesn't mean that when she gets back from TX, she might be saying something totally different. It's a very tough position to be in. That's why our members have been advising you to look after yourself, not just because it helps with the possibility of keeping the relationship intact, but also because if things don't work out, you will have gained self-awareness and confidence and strength, which are qualities nothing and no one can take away from you going forward.  

heartandwhole

[Pedro]

Hi heartandwhole hope you are keeping well?
As I've said we have genuinely & sincerely had the best time together in the last 2 months doings things having fun laughter & happiness (not looking through rose tinted glasses), really have. That's so frustrating. She's talking less now bout moving home. Experiencing push pull cycle conflicted at close quarters.
Not thinking bout house till I know for definite but will speak to my mortgage lender whilst she is in TX next month as precaution. Wouldn't be able to stay there too painful for my little ole heart .
She was saying doesn't want to go home next month but stay here & support me when I do my official race runs then. She's having my pet name tattoo for her done today, I've. Begged her not to do it but she's doing it.
Thanks heartandwhole

[heartandwhole]

 It IS frustrating. And I'm glad that you have been comfortable with and kind toward each other. At least you understand now, that the changing plans likely stem from her reactions to her feelings. Sometimes anxious about losing you, sometimes discomfort with getting too close.

I think you are doing the right thing by looking into options while she is gone. I also wouldn't be surprised if she reached out to YOU while she is in TX. Keep doing what you are doing, if your heart can take it. There are no guarantees, but you are also helping yourself in the process.

heartandwhole

[Pedro]

Thanks again heartandwhole.

I love & miss her family including her parents, her younger brother & his 3 children. I have become close to them over the last 6 years & vice versa. Her parents are like parents to me, it's breaking my heart losing them also.

Whilst supporting her 4 days of running races last week there were some lovely areas of countryside & public parks/places that she now wants us both to visit when she returns from TX vacation August onwards.  She's trying to make plans to visit a zoo in August given our passion for love of animals, wanting me to take her on a 200 mile same day journey to a tattoo convention, wants to sign us both up for official races in either August, September & or October. I've knocked her back as I am not letting her carrying on doing things as normal as if we were still a couple. I'm sure her boyfriend would not be impressed if he knew this, I know I wouldn't be.

I don't think she will reach out to me in fairness whilst she's home, as she will have reassurance & non abandonment fears whilst with Wonderful.

[Skip]

I'm sure her boyfriend would not be impressed if he knew this, I know I wouldn't be.

You don't need to worry about him. 

She's trying to make plans to visit a zoo in August given our passion for love of animals, wanting me to take her on a 200 mile same day journey to a tattoo convention, wants to sign us both up for official races in either August, September & or October. I've knocked her back... .

This is better than the Silent Treatment - but does it suggest a reuniting - who knows?  I think you are right to say "we'll cross that bridge when we get there".

This is a really hard journey that you have been on. You have given her good times, and she has expressed reservations about going away - and she is prone to change her mind.

I think the question is, what to do once she is gone? I think I would end the living together if she is still hot on the new guy - doing up to this point is gracious - but you don't want to be a meal ticket or a doormat.

[Pedro]

Thanks for your insight Skip.

As I have said previously neither of us can afford to leave the house/home due to the debts we have both incurred renovating it. So I spend more time for me now is still strange getting used to. I know it's not ideal but I'm dealing with the circumstances as best as possible.  I don't cook for her anymore, I clean for myself only, I'm still spending a couple of nights per week at my Mother's house until her recent illness, tests, treatment/outcome has been resolved. So I will stay in my home until it's sold if that is to be the outcome. I have learned over the last 2 months not to rely on or maybe believe anything she says.
Am finding it slightly easier day by day to let go off things, her letting her succeed or fail or fall on her own.

[Pedro]

Well the ex gf BPD had the tattoo of my pet/love name that I have called her for the last 6 years done on her neck yesterday .

She showed me when I came home from work today. I was revved up & angry & deliberately said to her "I hope your boyfriend likes it, good luck explaining that to him"? She said "what are you being like that for, I did it for you"?  I said "that is a very personal heartfelt name that is not commonly known which has a special & unique meaning to me about her".

She got upset & cried & I left her deliberately & let her cry alone, I didn't do the comforting thing like I always did.

After a short time I asked her not to have any more tattoos done for a while, just to step back & reflect & take time away from the tattoo parlour. I say this because since we separated she has had over 20 tattoos done or her arm, leg, hip, neck since we separated. She had little ones done in the past to cover self harm scars on her wrists, arms & ankles. I feel like I have contributed to this & am genuinely concerned. 

Her Mum & Dad will be furious with her when she visits them in a couple of weeks time. I will be blamed because it's my fault for cheating via email that we separated, & this has triggered her tattoo frenzy.  I can deal with that, I just think she's going over the top at the moment. Every time I have asked her not to have more done in the last 6 weeks or so she reply's "I like them & I'm having them done"?

She has a responsible job in financial management & has worked for 2 major US financial corporations before she moved to England. She works from home most days now but still has face to face meetings with senior staff with her employers where image, grooming & professionalism are key traits.

[Pedro]

Only one thing I will believe now what my ex gf BPD says.  She told me this evening "I am moving home".  Despite her BPD I know in my heart of hearts this is what she will do. I know mostly Skip & heartandwhole that this may play out as part of her condition which may not be the truth or eventual outcome. I have to accept this.

I have just arrived home from visiting a critically ill aunt. She comes downstairs from her bedroom (our old bedroom), & tells me "I'm moving home". I stop eating my meal lose my appetite as it physically hurts me inside & then she says " I cannot saying anything without upsetting you can I"?  I reply "I cannot help how I feel about you, it's called unconditional love". It cuts my heart in two even though I'm trying to move on. She tells me she's having panic attacks about her parents being ill & her being here in another country. She's "depressed about living here in this house as we are now".

I stupidly tell her "I love you & wish I could have changed what I did reaching out to an ex that caused us to separate. How I feel about you hasn't changed, I still want the same things that we had planned for our life together".  I am not looking through rose tinted glasses here everybody, I cannot help how I feel about this person.

[heartandwhole]

Hi Pedro,

I'm sorry, I know hearing what your ex said is painful.    It's okay to express your feelings to her.

How did she react when you told her that you wanted things to be different?

heartandwhole

[Pedro]

Hi heartandwhole, thanks for relying.

When I told her everything that you have read on my very last post here she said "I know I know". She acknowledged everything that I said by saying "yes yes I know" but wouldn't  engage in the conversation any further.  She says "I need to be near my parents, I had a panic attack last night that something is going to happen to one of my parents & I need to go home". She tells me "I've been depressed for the last couple of days over this"

I offer to relocate to TX USA to carry on our relationship make a new commitment to each other & my life there with her but she says "I've moved on now".

Next month is the first time she goes to visit her parents without me in the whole time we've been together. We have been together 3 times as a couple staying with her family. I tell her I miss her family, I'm never going to see them again, & ask her to give them a massive hug, kiss & goodbye from me. They  are my unofficial parents-in-law who I love them like my own parents. She says "I will".


I ask her to reconsider reconciling but she wouldn't engage in this conversation heartandwhole.  She wants to go running exercising with me tomorrow but I tell her "no I'm going on my own. She wants to go into the city with me tomorrow morning also but I tell her "no I'm going on my own"

[Pedro]

After the conversation ended she asks do you like my tattoos. Well 2 days ago you will see my thoughts on what I think on her excessive overdosing on tattoos the last few months. I said "why are you asking me"? She said "because i want your opinion" I said "what does your boyfriend think, isn't that all that matters"? She laughs. I say "I miss kissing your body & your skin where your tattoos are" This is in context to where I used to kiss her old tattoos where she had covered her areas with self harm scars, "to make her pain go away" I used to say. Doing the old supportive unconditional love partner crap thinking I was helping, but it wasn't.

[Skip]

I said "what does your boyfriend think, isn't that all that matters"? She laughs. I say "I miss kissing your body & your skin where your tattoos are"

We talked about walking that fine line and you have done a really good job. This (above) however, is over the line.

It doesn't help to discuss her boyfriend in any capacity with her - it hurts - both of you.

It starts to get in the "doormat" area if you are professing unconditional love when she is professing "hey, I'm worried about my parents, I think I'm moving". Again, it hurts you both. She feels you are not connecting with her anxiety about mom and dad. You are pouring your heart out to someone who is not really listening.

It's hard, I know.

In the big picture, you dialed it way back from where you were when you started here (being antagonistic), to being fun and a great guy. You have been a friend and emotionally available and you haven't tried to guilt her or manipulate her. You have taken the high road. 

In the same big picture, she has opened up to you and asked you to be her friend + and be a part of her life. She has been all over the map on what she wants to do - stay, go, move with job... .

Its been quit a while now. Its time to move to the next stage - which is not living your life dependent on her. Right now, everything depends on her. This is cool for her. It's not good or you.

For example, you can't really date with her in the house. You don't want to sell the house until she is definitely leaving - that date could be months away.

The is a psychological aspect of this too. She can experiment and exercise all her options, and always come back to you because she knows you are captive until she makes a decision.

My suggestion is to go through the exercise of saying "what actions will I take to start my life over" if she leaves. Sell the house? Lose weight? Get involved with friends and socialize?

Whatever it is - start doing it now. There is no reason to wait to sell the house, for example. If you tell her you are putting it up for sale, suddenly, her decisions have consequences and she will be more inclined to make a decision. At the same time. you start getting on with your life.

You can always turn back if she wants to reconnect the relationship. It's important not to just wait on her - for many different reasons.

[Pedro]

Sorry Skip.

Let my guard down. Was frustrated because I wanted her to know how I feel. Also for nearly 6 years she wouldn't discuss her issues, or us in the relationship, but now she wants to talk about her & her future I just retaliated which I know wasn't the right thing to do but my frustration & JADE kicked in I'm afraid.

[Pedro]

Told her today I was working in the garden.  She never let me do it when we were a couple as it was her baby & she is passionate about gardens, plants, shrubs, decorations etc. She's not feeling well coming out of her 2 day depression mini implosion & worrying bout her parents hence 'going home' comment yesterday.

I come inside the house to get showered & changed into clean clothes. She's says "how did you get on with my garden"? I said "fine won't look as nice as you do it because you're a perfectionist".  Added to that I said "plus we need to get the house finished & presentable before it goes on the market for sale".  She replies "not too soon I hope"? I said "not straight away but hopefully by October".  She says "yes that will be okay"

For your attention Skip & heartandwhole financially I will not be in a position till the end of September or early October till I clear my remaining debts etc. to move.

So there you are Skip & heartandwhole it's done, said, moved on, that's it, I've officially said it & it's done with now.

[heartandwhole]

So there you are Skip & heartandwhole it's done, said, moved on, that's it, I've officially said it & it's done with now.

I think it was the right thing to let her know, Pedro. Time for her to see that you will not wait around and be her support system indefinitely, and that you will take action to move forward with your life. That was difficult, I'm sure.    How do you feel?

heartandwhole

[Pedro]

Hi heartandwhole,
I feel like crap I never actually thought I would have to say or actually do what has to be done in so sad. I screwed up Friday evening as you can tell from Skip's reply, wasn't trying to invalidate what she was saying about her parents. I leave the house this morning to take my mum grocery shopping, but before I leave she gives me a prolonged hug & tells me that she loves me, not in a mate buddy friend way, as you know from previous posts I always document her affections physically because I know the difference. So bloody frustrating heartandwhole.

[heartandwhole]

I know, Pedro, I'd feel like crap, too, in this situation. It's very understandable.  

It takes time to get used to validating. If we slip-up, we just get back on the horse and try again.

It's especially challenging when it seems like no one is thinking about what you are feeling. That's why I feel it's important that the communication go both ways.

This is a really tough situation to be in, and you are doing well.

heartandwhole

[Pedro]

Thanks heartandwhole,

Hope your are okay also?  
I wanted to have one last day out together either yesterday or today that we could do with fun joy & happiness as she goes home week on Wednesday. So it could have been the zoo, cinema, show, the beach/coast etc. Just wanted her to see experience one last time before her home TX vacation, what a good caring attractive fun loving person & see that as I know things will have profoundly changed once she comes back from that vacation.
Just things will be different them having met Wonderful in the real  I know her mind set will be different, & mind made up not in a saving the relationship for us way that I had hoped for.
I was the eternal optimist in this lifetime commitment I was making to this woman, & with insight of BPD family hoping to reconcile but hey ho tht's life isn't it?
Thanks again.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[heartandwhole]

I am doing very well, Pedro. Thank you for asking.

I fully understand your preparing for her to come back flush with new plans with a new guy. It may happen, and I know it hurts to think about.

On the other hand, I have my own experience to tell me that the long game may not be over at all. It's a very tricky situation to be in, as you want to make your own plans going by what she is, and will be, telling you. Takes a lot of strength.

What plans do you have for you while she is in TX? Have you thought about it?

heartandwhole

[Pedro]

In terms of the house I have some decorating to do combined with minor other DIY work on it.

I will be taking legal advice through my employer's union that I a am a member of (it is discounted for staff members). I will speak to my mortgage lender after the legal advice to consider options, re mortgage, sell the house, there is a possibility if I sell the home I may never be able to buy a property again, so for the remainder of my life I may live in rented property which is a scenario I never envisaged. By the way that is not a reason why I'm trying to salvage the relationship, I love my ex partner sincerely. But that is a possible nightmare scenario. I may have to consider moving & working abroad/overseas to recoup losses which I may consider.

I've got my official race going on 2nd week July which ex gf said she wanted not to go to TX for & support me for my race. My brother his wife & children are visiting from the middle east whilst she's in TX. My partner was never comfortable with visitors to the house due to her condition, very insecure & not good at socializing with my family (it wasn't personal she just isn't capable of doing this). Until I understood her condition better we had numerous rows over this which I accept now, but didn't in the relationship, because my brothers, sister, mum, nieces & nephews love her to bit when they have seen her elsewhere.

Thanks heartandwhole

[Pedro]

Hi all.  Given most of you a break from my usual ramblings last 4-5 days. Here's an update.

Ex gf with BPD has decided she doesn't want to go to the gym for the foreseeable future. For 12 months up to January 2107 she had being going 3 x weekly incorporating a personal trainer into getting fit, doing jogging/running where we live. It saw her lose 3 stone in weight over a year, her self esteem improved, healthier eating she looked great.

Had foot surgery in January this year, couldn't fully weight bear or train for 3 months, we separated at her demand, she put 1 stone in weight on. 

So yesterday morning she tells me she isn't going to the gym for the time being. I ask why? She tells me she wants to concentrate on running instead. I acknowledge what she says. I ask "Is it because we have separated & I have affected your motivation/mind set because I reached out to an ex"?  She says "no", but I know that I have.  I explain that I feel guilty that I have contributed to her "falling off the wagon", losing her mental motivation, good healthy mind set that she had developed.

She says "no I just want concentrate on running for now".  I acknowledge what she says.  She now asks "can I go running with you when you run at weekends"? I say "that's fine".

Her Mum particularly commented on her daughter's weight loss, appearance & good well being last September when we were on vacation at her parent's house last year.  I am going to feel like crap when she sees them next week when she goes home. She doesn't look as slim, happy, healthy as she did last year, & it's mostly my fault.  I will be so ashamed of my email behaviour when she explains to her Mum what I did reaching out to an ex because I couldn't cope with her BPD.  They will hate me having once held me in very high regard.  I am dreading it.

I told my ex gf BPD that things will be profoundly different here between us when she returns from TX vacation.  I explain that "you will tell your family what happened with us, you will have cemented your relationship in the real with your boyfriend confirming how you feel about him, & you will know that God is guiding you home to be nearer your parents as you're worried about them".  I say that "your mind set will have changed, we are moving on, we haven't reconciled, I need to sell the house, & things will be different between us as I can't be this supportive friend that you perceive me to be". She asks "In what way will things be different"? I repeated again what I've just wrote.  I said I will be polite, civil, courteous, mature, & professional about things until we move on with our lives separately until then.

I hope Skip is happy about what I have said here?

She said last weekend which I may/may have not written already that she wants to arrange/book us both to do official races when she returns from TX. I said "ask me nearer the time & I'll see how I feel, (not playing mind games with her, I need to know how I'll feel about things August onwards).

As this is her last weekend before her vacation, I ask her can we have 1 last  final day out somewhere where we can incorporate going to the coast with going to the zoo in the same area & perhaps have a meal also? She agreed. I probably won't be able to do things like this when she returns back to the UK.

[heartandwhole]

As this is her last weekend before her vacation, I ask her can we have 1 last  final day out somewhere where we can incorporate going to the coast with going to the zoo in the same area & perhaps have a meal also? She agreed. I probably won't be able to do things like this when she returns back to the UK.

Let us know how this goes, Pedro. 

You've made quite a few predictions in this post, and I think I understand why. I'm sure I'd be going the same thing. It's very difficult to feel one's future "on hold" until someone else decides what it will be. In my view, you are doing the right thing making plans to move forward with your life, even if things don't go the way you are assuming they will.

I can understand wanting to tell her how things will be different when she gets back. I might hold off on telling her how she will feel, though. I think sharing your plans in a friendly way is enough to let her know that you are looking out for yourself and your future, even though you care for her very much.

You have really been handling this situation with a lot of good will and caring, Pedro. That is very admirable. 

heartandwhole

[Pedro]

Good evening heartandwhole,

I have to predict the things that I don't want to happen, and have to plan for them anyway.  She didn't like some of things I have said, but hopefully the reality of what is slowly unfurling is starting to hit home. Unfortunately for me it won't have the desired effect. It is real life painful heart breaking reality.

I was walking my Mum's dog this evening & reflecting on the last few months, & I still have this physical pain to my body & the loss I am still feeling of grieving for a deceased person who is still alive. It is absolutely bizarre.

It was my birthday today & my ex wanted to take me out for a meal or have a home delivery of a well known USA pizza but I politely refused. She was upset & asked me 3 times to stay for pizza. I've been staying at my Mum's house for the last 3 days as she is in Eire with my youngest brother visiting her daughter & attending a wedding.  So I am house sitting and pet minding for 5 days at the mo. I have booked holiday leave from my job to be here whilst renovation work is done on my Mum's house, plus it does me good to be away from our home.

I know refusing a meal or pizza smacks of hypocrisy given I want to have a meal out together this weekend as one last time before TX vacation, but today was my day, I wasn't cutting my nose off to spite my face. It was too painful to be with her (though I so wanted to). But I am getting stronger, still having bad days.

Her parent's, brother & niece's sent me a lovely message on FB today for my BDay, & I responded in kind with heavy heart felt thank you with another subliminal goodbye to her family.
Thanks heartandwhole.

[Pedro]

Yes heartandwhole,

I do care a lot for ex, I love her more than anyone else I have loved & it's hard to switch off those feelings for someone who I also thought I was going to spend the rest of my life with.

It's also difficult breaking that caretaking, care giving support role that  I was slowly encapsulated into with her BPD.  Living together but not as a couple is challenging me more so to break those habits.

This week she offered to come over to my parent's house to feed & walk the pets so I wouldn't to take time off work. She's so good in other ways or she trying to see how I'll react push/pull? I again politely refuse.

[Pedro]

My ex wants us to stay friends when we finalise the house selling splitting up moving on etc. She tells me this whilst we're out now. I say this isn't possible because of how I feel about her I can't do that. She says why can't we? I say because of how I feel about you I can't be friends sorry. I ask if she'll reconsider us? She says no I can't change now. I politely say I'm not asking you to change. She says are you mad with me for having a boyfriend & moving on? I say no she says why won't you talk about it? I politely say because I do not wish to thank you.

[Pedro]

Yes I know I have validated what she said. However why I invalidated her wanting to talk bout our breakup but I wasn't mentally prepared to discuss that topic inparticular

[Pedro]

Hi heartandwhole,

To give you an update on yesterday's day out. The last couple of posts were short as I was trying to post them while ex was with me, so only when she went to the ladies room in the restaurant could I put anything.

So we didn't do a full day out to the coast or the zoo as I had planned.  We went into the city near to where we live. So I parked up then headed to an shopping mall. On the way she says "we can still be friends can't we when the house has been sold & we have moved on"? I say "that will not be possible because of how I feel about you".  She asks the same question again & I give her the same answer with an assertive politeness.

So we are sat having drinks & she says "are you mad with me"? I say "about what"? She says "having a boyfriend & moving on". I say "no not mad just frustrated". She says "I want to talk about us"? I ask "do you mean us breaking up"? I say "I don't want to talk about that right now thank you".

Over the next couple of hours she going back to the topic of wanting to stay friends & in touch once the house sale is finalised & completed. Without getting angry & exasperated I say "it is not possible, because of how I feel about you, I love you but I have to move on without you".
Is she trying to keep me there if things fail with Mr Wonderful? At one time I would have allowed that but not now.

We have a lovely USA diner style meal which I picked somewhere new to eat which she loved. We walked around the city her occasionally holding my hand, telling me she loves me, (the usual behaviour I've documented before). We go to old vinyl record stores which we always threatened to do when a couple, & she bought some clothes for her vacation next week then home.

Driving home from the city I bring the topic up of myself having getting involved with counselling for my mental health. She asks "how has it been going"?  I say it's been helpful but I've also struggled at times"
I bring up the subject that I have been reading about BPD. I pause to see if she would respond, she says "I cant change". I say "I don't want you to change". Perhaps that was a good or not so good thing to say?  I feel that I've reached a monumental moment here, because for the last 6 years & since we separated she wouldn't even acknowledge it the subject.

I say "it's okay to be who you are Hun", I apologise  when over the next 5 minutes or so whilst driving (not clever), trying to validate, empathise & verify her thought processes & emotions.
I say "when you were going through your episodes of extreme emotions, self harming, severe mood swings, things that you were trying so say, your belief systems that I didn't understand or couldn't comprehend why you do it".
I apologise "that I couldn't validate your thoughts, feelings & what you were trying to communicate & say to me, & that I invalidated what you were feeling & saying". Given I'm opening a can of worms with somebody with BPD whilst I'm in a car with her whilst I'm driving was a risky strategy?

I say that I have been reading & researching about the condition & remind her of the time she told me "that she was told she has traits of BPD in her early 20's" I give examples of when she was unhappy & say that I wished having been in knowledge of all the facts like I am now how I would have reacted differently, how I would have supported her appropriately.
I finish this topic in case it escalates her mood & painful memories by saying "if we could reconcile I am better prepared for us to have a better happier healthier more fulfilling relationship"?  She says no.

Sorry for the long post everybody.

[Gumiho]

Hi pedro,

I've been following your story so far and I have to comment on how strong you are. Cheer up~ ^^
Here are some things I wanted to coin in on~~

At one time I would have allowed that but not now.

I see both though. No blame

holding my hand, telling me she loves me, (the usual behaviour I've documented before).

My (ex?)gf shows this kind of behavior too. excruciating. stay strong 

"I cant change". I say "I don't want you to change". Perhaps that was a good or not so good thing to say?

IMHO a good reply. You is you, she is she. Only she can change herself. I communicated the same to mine more roughly. Your version is so...  

whilst driving (not clever) ... .
Given I'm opening a can of worms with somebody with BPD whilst I'm in a car with her whilst I'm driving was a risky strategy?

Risky. (hazards and pull out if she gets physical... I don't see any problem if not though)

"if we could reconcile I am better prepared for us to have a better happier healthier more fulfilling relationship"?  She says no.

In my case, persistence paid off the most.


And don't apologize, I feel for ya~

[Pedro]

Hi Gumiho,

Thanks for your support, I am not a strong person in my mind, I think I'm sad, desperate, & pathetic the way I've been a door mat for years just to cope with the illness. Initially during the separation I've been a doormat, & that is because I wasn't in receipt or knowledgeable of the facts or understanding of what it's like, feel or think when somebody has BPD. I didn't have coping strategies, knowing about boundaries, validation, severe mood swings (extreme highs & lows), self harming, excessive clothes shopping etc.

Not being biased she occasionally lets her guard down, or opens the gate & communicates that she still wants us, but cannot get past me reaching out to an ex via email for support because I got in such a dark & unhappy place I never wanted that I was desperate.

I've done all I can Gumiho.  Thanks for your insight, I'm sorry I've not been able to support others like they have me, because we cohabit (as neither can afford to move out) until we finally sell the house, so even in separation I'm dealing with us every day like her me.

[heartandwhole]

So tough, Pedro. Your frustration is so understandable. 

How do you feel having shared with her some of things you'd been holding on to?

heartandwhole 

[Gumiho]

I've done all I can Gumiho.

You've done far more than "all", Pedro.
If this was a real war you'd be pinned by medals from head to toe~~
rooting for you 

[Pedro]

Hi heartandwhole.

As the title of a book that the website here endorses I was walking on eggshells before I said things.  Even not being a couple & from past experiences when I've tried to broach the subject & her reactions, I still have that mind set. It felt a bit of slight relief. It felt good but I probably only said 10% of what I want to say. She's going on holiday next week so I don't want her to leave here traumatised.

Because we still cohabit I have to make things as comfortable, doable workable until we go our separate ways completely. So I am still having to work at things still for my own sanity.

She said yesterday "how will things be different when I return from TX, they will still be the same for me"?  As I commented earlier in the week when I told her "things will be profoundly different", I didn't want to get into a hypothetical conversation about "well you've met your boyfriend & you'll know how you'll feel about him now that you've met him. (not good to mention that heartandwhole and Skip). Also speaking to her Mother about us, God telling her to move home, or her relocating to another part of England for her job if she decides to stay in England.  She wouldn't understand my perspective heartandwhole?

So I will not what she wants or thinks I can be when she returns as we are now, it's not for me, she reconciles or we're through, that's how it is (it will be the latter).

When I do sell the house that's when my grieving will start properly, I don't have to deal with this anymore.

She thinks we're best mates but we're not. I've had to be polite & listen to her mutterings with Wonderful every night.  I'll reconsider medals Gumiho hahaha?

[Pedro]

I can't do this anymore, it's too hard, I'm too sad & upset. My heart can't take this. I'm home from my parents house & she has everything laid out packed for TX vacation. Roll on towards end of year, get house sold,

I'm a good person here, why can't she just bloody reconnect. I've given up on this. Sincere congratulations & well done to all members who have bee able to reconcile & success stories.

When I've left all this crap behind, I'll leave her my login details just bloody show her how much I love her how hard I tried, all the effort, compassion, learning, understanding. Then she might get a better take of how her condition affects people's lives.

She'll keep going through relationships in life if neither her or Mr Wonderfuls in future don't engage in pro active intervention. She obviously doesn't love me enough.

[Pedro]

Forgot to add just wanted to say hand on very heavy heart, sincere thanks mostly to Skip and heartandwhole on the trying to save a relationship section of this website.
     

[Skip]

Pedro, you've done a good job of being strong, being a good person, and not being a doormat. You've given her positive memories.

Try not to let down in these last few hours. It's not the time to profess love or solicit reconciliation - she has to make this trip - she promised her parents - and she is committed to meet her penpal.

Let it play out. It's hard, the odds for either relationship are long - but it's your best play. Letting down just swings the momentum in the other direction... .

Hang in there.

[Pedro]

Sorry Skip ive tried so bloody hard. I've been in my bedroom tonight like this , I've been all happy positive in front of her. Just seeing her travel bags & me not being part of that extended family that I have come to know & love her parents are like my 2nd parents we're so close & the mutual love & closeness just pulls at my heart so much.
Sorry thanks.

[Skip]

Sorry Skip I've tried so bloody hard... .

Please don't be sorry. This is your life, your heart, your call. Your situation is a very difficult and fluid one.

[Pedro]

Without mostly yourself Skip and heartandwhole, I would not have got this far in terms of trying reconnect & reconcile.

Head unfortunately is preparing for the unwanted scenario unfortunately

THANKS XXX

[Pedro]

Happy 4th July day from this unofficially adopted TX man from England. Hope most of you here from the US can a relatively stress free & peaceful day where possible?

God bless & love to you all.

Pedro XX

[Pedro]

Happy 4th July day from this unofficially adopted TX man from England. Hope most of you here from the US can have a relatively stress free & peaceful day where possible?

God bless & love to you all.

Pedro XX