My BPD rant:

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

We must not forget that BPD is a mental illness. People who are afflicted by it don't have the same brain chemistry as we do. They don't feel empathy. They initially alternate between over-the-top idolization and pretense of love, followed by complete dissociation with total lack of empathy. I fell for it, hook, line and sinker. So excited and thrilled that I was "The best lover she had ever had" in her entire life. That she had never felt so strongly about any man in her entire life. That I was the most amazing person she had ever met.  And this idolization stage lasts just long enough to be able to suck you into their emotional tornado. Because once you fall for it, and you reciprocate, that's when they pull away, and leave you wondering What the heck just happened. And then it goes back and forth, and back and forth, because when you feel you should pull away, that's when they come on the strongest. And they keep doing that, until they know that you are so into them, that you would never leave them. And THAT'S when they say they've had enough and discard you for the next one. But they start this whole cycle with the next one BEFORE they have discarded you. It is scary to think that such erratic behavior can be so predictable and repetitive (but you can only realize that once you know about the disease). People with BPD leave a trail of broken hearts and broken people. And either they have no idea about it, or they just don't care.

The ability to inflict emotional pain on others, without any guilt, is part of their disorder, and what makes this a sociopathic illness. I keep forgetting about that, often wondering why she never tried to contact me after the discard (still early, now at 1 month). Not even to check in on me. But then I tell myself that her brain chemistry is different from mine, and different from 95% of the population. I'm putting myself in her shoes and saying "That's what I would do... .Why isn't she checking in to see how I feel, after she discarded me with a total lack of affection or any empathy, just a few weeks after she told me she loved me and was in love with me?"  But then I realize that her brain does not feel empathy. I realize that she never did, in the entire 14 months long distance relationship we had.

Should I have seen the red flag when she forgot my birthday, twice, during our 14 months of dating? (she knew my birthday date, just did not remember it to wish me happy birthday on that day, I ended up telling her matter-of-factly).  It was another red flag that she never took ME out for dinner, not even for my birthday, even though she told me she would many times. It was a red flag that she never once bought me anything at all. I have absolutely nothing to hold on to, that I could say she got for me.  I would get many gifts and mementos for her, that said "You're on my mind. You're special. I am crazy about you". She never did. Not even once. It was always the other way around. She would say it verbally, but never do anything concrete to back it up. I do realize at this point that it's probably better this way, that I really would not want to have anything laying around to remind me of her heartless ways.

At the end of the relationship, when going through the discard, the BPD's sociopathic dissociation simply comes across as a blank-staring, heartless person sitting across from us. Making us wonder how we ever got involved with them.

The potential to feel empathy towards others, and to be able to develop lasting love, is a characteristic that most people possess, but that is markedly absent in the BPD brain. That logic helps me to deal better with the emotional turmoil that she inflicted on me. I'm improving. Significantly. I am getting my confidence back. But some days, like today, I get hit with this heavy feeling of hurt, sadness and anxiety. My eyes water and my chest hurts, and I get a mild feeling of nausea. It hits me out of the blue. I know I'll be better tomorrow.

I'm still not over her. But I'm getting there. Slowly but surely.

[NotOverHer]

We must not forget that BPD is a mental illness. People who are afflicted by it don't have the same brain chemistry as we do. They don't feel empathy. They initially alternate between over-the-top idolization and pretense of love, followed by complete dissociation with total lack of empathy. I fell for it, hook, line and sinker. So excited and thrilled that I was "The best lover she had ever had" in her entire life. That she had never felt so strongly about any man in her entire life. That I was the most amazing person she had ever met.  And this idolization stage lasts just long enough to be able to suck you into their emotional tornado. Because once you fall for it, and you reciprocate, that's when they pull away, and leave you wondering What the heck just happened. And then it goes back and forth, and back and forth, because when you feel you should pull away, that's when they come on the strongest. And they keep doing that, until they know that you are so into them, that you would never leave them. And THAT'S when they say they've had enough and discard you for the next one. But they start this whole cycle with the next one BEFORE they have discarded you. It is scary to think that such erratic behavior can be so predictable and repetitive (but you can only realize that once you know about the disease). People with BPD leave a trail of broken hearts and broken people. And either they have no idea about it, or they just don't care.

The ability to inflict emotional pain on others, without any guilt, is part of their disorder, and what makes this a sociopathic illness. I keep forgetting about that, often wondering why she never tried to contact me after the discard (still early, now at 1 month). Not even to check in on me. But then I tell myself that her brain chemistry is different from mine, and different from 95% of the population. I'm putting myself in her shoes and saying "That's what I would do... .Why isn't she checking in to see how I feel, after she discarded me with a total lack of affection or any empathy, just a few weeks after she told me she loved me and was in love with me?"  But then I realize that her brain does not feel empathy. I realize that she never did, in the entire 14 months long distance relationship we had.

Should I have seen the red flag when she forgot my birthday, twice, during our 14 months of dating? (she knew my birthday date, just did not remember it to wish me happy birthday on that day, I ended up telling her matter-of-factly).  It was another red flag that she never took ME out for dinner, not even for my birthday, even though she told me she would many times. It was a red flag that she never once bought me anything at all. I have absolutely nothing to hold on to, that I could say she got for me.  I would get many gifts and mementos for her, that said "You're on my mind. You're special. I am crazy about you". She never did. Not even once. It was always the other way around. She would say it verbally, but never do anything concrete to back it up. I do realize at this point that it's probably better this way, that I really would not want to have anything laying around to remind me of her heartless ways.

At the end of the relationship, when going through the discard, the BPD's sociopathic dissociation simply comes across as a blank-staring, heartless person sitting across from us. Making us wonder how we ever got involved with them.

The potential to feel empathy towards others, and to be able to develop lasting love, is a characteristic that most people possess, but that is markedly absent in the BPD brain. That logic helps me to deal better with the emotional turmoil that she inflicted on me. I'm improving. Significantly. I am getting my confidence back. But some days, like today, I get hit with this heavy feeling of hurt, sadness and anxiety. My eyes water and my chest hurts, and I get a mild feeling of nausea. It hits me out of the blue. I know I'll be better tomorrow.

I'm still not over her. But I'm getting there. Slowly but surely.

[Bushes]

Nicely put. Bravo. I could have written the same word for word based upon my experience which is also just under one month past. I have come to the same insights. The similarities in the experience you describe are almost scary. Which so very often the more I read and share is the case. Which only supports everything you have said around the disordered BPD mind. So erratic yet predictable in so very many instances of this behaviour. There are times after reminding myself of all the things you have pointed out that I can almost look at her behaviour past and yet to come with a sense of almost scientific curiosity. The discard and complete detachment and silence is possibly the worst form of abuse. It is an abnormal and lacking mind that moves the actions of the extreme BPD and I know as I know you do we are better off without being a part of their existence. It would be easier to move on without the hurt if they weren't so very convincing leading up to the inevetible. Again you have described the very same thing as i and many many others have witnessed and experienced and every time I hear of the same experience it helps me that much more. And I thank you for taking the time to share and helping me by doing so.

[hopealways]

I wish it was a brain chemistry issue, or a mental illness because that would mean a prescription would fix it like with bipolars. Unfortunately it is an emotional disorder not a mental illness. So there is no chemical imbalance in the brain. The BPD acts the way they do because of severe emotional trauma from childhood which can take years of therapy to address.

[NotOverHer]

Bushes: Thank you for your reply. The more we can see others with mirror image of our devastating relationships, the easier it is to find an explanation, and eventually get closure.

Moving4ward: You're right, it is an emotional disorder, but I believe that there is also a component of mental illness (so at least partly due to a brain chemistry issue). The brain is a very poorly understood organ. Lithium is thought to help bipolar illness by stabilizing the cell membrane (at least that's what I remember from med school 30 years ago). Antidepressants help mood by adjusting certain brain hormones. Serotonin, cortisol, norepinephrine, dopamine, ... .are all known to have an impact on mood, and too little - or too much - can have a significant effect on mood and behavior. We don't understand why people with BPD behave the way they do. Most professionals believe it is a combination of both environmental (such as a traumatic childhood) and brain biochemistry.

[stimpy]

I am sorry you're going through this NotOverHer, though from your post you have a good handle on what has happened. I could have written pretty much all of what you have already, the lack of empathy, the lack of concern for the relationship, the idealisation at the beginning, then the discard and dissociation at the end are all very familiar to me and so many others.

People with BPD leave a trail of broken hearts and broken people. And either they have no idea about it, or they just don't care.

The ability to inflict emotional pain on others, without any guilt, is part of their disorder, and what makes this a sociopathic illness.

The only comment I'd develop on and perhaps was different in my experience was that my exes trail of disasterous relationships was something she cared about very deeply and was very aware of. My ex told me about her sequence of poor relationships she had been in at the beginning of our relationship.  But, in her mind the bad relationships were converted into it being all her exes fault and that she was the very unfortunate victim of this catalogue of catastrophes. She also identified herself as a victim of her parents when she was a child, and especially hated her mother. A huge red flag in itself.

Being a victim of all these terrible things was a strong part of her identity. It also brought out the rescuer/white knight in me, and formed the foundation stone for a dysfunctional relationship right from the get go.

But looking back with considerable hindsight now, the biggest red flag was that she was merrily punishing her mother - by giving the silent treatment, or not helping her mother out or whatever. And she thought nothing of it. This behaviour pattern is, when I think about it, quite scary, and feeds into your assertion about the sociopathic nature that some people with BPD display.

And I missed all this, as a red flag I mean, I just didn't know what this meant for her, deep down, psychologically, and worse still what it meant for me and what was in store for me later down the road as it all went wrong. And yes, then I was in for the painting black, the silent treatment, the cruelty and the stalking and so on.

The reason I bring this up, is that the lack of empathy, in my view means that the casual cruelty shown during the relationship is something that my ex didn't really understand as being poor behaviour. So, then when I reacted to her poor behaviour, and got upset and called her out on it,  she couldn't see that she had done something wrong, so my reaction, my getting upset  was converted in her mind into me being faulty... .of over reacting, of being wait for it... .just like all of her other exes.

We should consider ourselves lucky that we do have empathy, it stops us from treating people poorly and gives us the ability to build strong relationships. We will recover, we will get better. Our exes will only get better with an enormous amount of therapy and a strong desire to do so.

The birthday incident you mentioned rang bells with me, mine didn't acknowledge my birthday either, and that hurt. Really, I should have ended it then there, but I didn't, and that is where I've had to look at myself, to look at why I allowed myself to get involved with such a person, and what dynamic in me made me vulnerable to charms of someone with BPD, I think I've pretty much worked it out now, and now I'm rebuilding myself, and building better boundaries, and building a refusal to accept bad behaviour from  anyone, no matter how charming or attractive they may be.

[Fishmedic]

Scary the similarities we've all experienced. Yet while it was happening to us, we were trying to justify and stick up for their short comings. I'm almost 2 months out now, we were together, on and off for 6yrs, and I can think of only 2 Birthdays in those 6 years where i even saw her. Never recieved a gift or any type of gesture. Even this year, i got a text from her at 430 in the afternoon while i was at work asking "is it your Birthday today"? 6yrs... .Yet 2 months ago, on her Birthday, gifts, dinner, drinks, stayed the night, then discarded 2 weeks later for the final time... .These people are damaged, beyond repair in most cases. It's sad, truly heart breaking to know they'll never experience life or love the way the rest of us do. I mean, thats what kept us in it right? She was a "project" we thought we could fix. Now here we are, half of who we are when we met her, while she's the EXACT same as the day we met her, idealizing the next love of her life like we never existed. 
Hard to process, but such is life. This forum and being able to relate with others is nothing short of a miracle. Keep posting, and take care of yourselves, all of you. Unlike our exes, we still have the potential for love and happiness in our lives.

[Stolen]

The complete lack of empathy or any consideration for our well being after we were the greatest thing to ever happen to them feels not even human to me. It was disturbing and disgusting that a human being could even be this way. It is incomprehensible to me

I can echo this 100%.  And to see the similar lack of empathy or ambivalence reflected in my children  has devastated me.

What a terrible disorder... .

[Pulka]

No amount of medication can help someone with BPD;
From experience it merely masks the symptoms and creates a zombie in their place. It actually enables them to be even more cut off from society as their emotions are numbed even further.

Best form of treatment is talking therapies and reprogramming of their thought processes and behaviour. You must remember in their mind these are actual feelings and what they adamantly believe is the truth in their eyes.

Whilst there are elements of 'nature' in the disorder; anxiety/depression and other mental health illnesses in there, it seems BPD is maladaptive strategy to life and all that surrounds them.

Just my two cents on the disorder.

[flourdust]

Having a good rant (as the title of this thread says) every now and then can be healthy. If you're stuck in the doldrums, a bit of anger can can get the adrenaline flowing.

So... .what's next? Once you've ranted about your ex, you're still right where you were before. What are you going to do to move forward with something more positive for yourself?

[Skip]

Should I have seen the red flag when she forgot my birthday, twice, during our 14 months of dating? (she knew my birthday date, just did not remember it to wish me happy birthday on that day, I ended up telling her matter-of-factly).  It was another red flag that she never took ME out for dinner, not even for my birthday, even though she told me she would many times. It was a red flag that she never once bought me anything at all. I have absolutely nothing to hold on to, that I could say she got for me.  I would get many gifts and mementos for her, that said "You're on my mind. You're special. I am crazy about you". She never did. Not even once. It was always the other way around. She would say it verbally, but never do anything concrete to back it up. I do realize at this point that it's probably better this way, that I really would not want to have anything laying around to remind me of her heartless ways.

Personally, I might think the first red flag   was when you first met - she snuck out on her husband during their vacation to met up with another married man (you) for dinner.  

I know it's early (you are only a month out), but I do want to plant some seeds for future thought.

1. Before you dig into the esoterics of personality disorders, it might help to examine what this relationship was about? Hard question, I know. Dual affair, long distance, 20 years your junior, you had no intention of leaving your wife... .

If this was a "primary" relationship and she fell madly in love with you and wanted to be your one-and-only, would that have worked out for her? How would it have worked out for you if she was pushing hard for you to buy a home for the two of you, wanted a baby, and wanted proof that you confronted your wife and children and filed for divorce?

If it wasn't a primary relationship, then was a situational fling, a temporary fantasy. You, the dashing successful career man a path to a successful life, and she the love struck, young, atomically perfect women who really saw you for the incredibly awesome and youthful man that you are - expressed sexually on occasion - to be followed by a return to both your respective lives/marriages.

We often talk here of affairs being the third leg of an imbalanced marriage. In this construct, remove any of the legs and the status quo falls. In this case, she left her husband.



2. What is empathy? We often confuse it with compassion, but empathy is the ability to understand how another person sees things. The more different another person's situation or perspective (from ours), the greater the requisite skills needed to be empathetic. The more emotionally flooded we are, the lower our empathy skills.  In affairs, there is usually a pretty significant breakdown in empathy on all fronts... .affairs are inherently flooded with strong, often compartmentalized emotions and they are marked by varying degrees of selfishness.

3. What is a sociopath? Sociopathy is commonly associated with disregard for and violation of the rights of others, deceitfulness or conning others for personal pleasure, lack of remorse - rationalizing having hurt, or mistreatment of others. Does it apply here? And to whom? Or is it really too strong a term for what has happened?
https://bpdfamily.com/content/antisocial-personality-disorder

4. Why does this hurt so much and cause you to feel so violated?  Is this because your partner was so special? Sure she was special and this is a very significant loss for you - but the depth of your struggles may have a lot more to do with the complexity of the relationship bond than the person. This relationship rejuvenated you, filled an empty void deep inside of you. That's why you were willing to risk so much to "play".

Most likely, your partner was also on a complex journey that started long before the relationship began. You were their “knight in shining armor”, you were her hope and the answer to the disappointments that she has struggled with most of their life.

Together, this made for an incredibly “loaded” relationship bond between the two of you - and at the same time, not a lot of deep of understanding of each other.

Something to ponder... .and certainly not an easy post-mortem by any means.

Getting back to your rant... . 

[RomanticFool]

My understanding isn't that a pwBPD dosn't feel empathy but they have such strong emotions that their empathy becomes impaired. My ex was capable of empathy but at the end of the r/s was unable to take any interest in my emotions whatsoever due to her own emotional dysfunction.

I just wanted to add that your r/s sounds so similar to my own (which has only just finished again). When we meet somebody who we love so profoundly that we cannot bear our lives without them, it is so incredibly painful. I too was the third leg in the stool in the analogy Skip gave you. 

I want to say to you that the pain does ease in time and that self care is the way forward. I spent so much time worrying about the pain, that I forgot to look at what the underlying causes were. In my case the r/s was a very strong sexual attraction. It provided an outlet from my sexless marriage and she is a very beautiful woman - like Blondie in her prime. However, I made a terrible mistake in assuming she was as committed to the r/s as I was. She never was and her depression dictated how often she was able to speak to me without feeling the effects of the pressure I applied on her to see me. Her husband and family commitments dictated how often she was able to see me. To me she was my entire world. What was actually going on was sex and love addiction.

More of that later. Look after yourself. It is very hard to let somebody go when there was once a sense of perfection in the r/s. In my case, the only peace I get in my life is no contact whatsoever. It is the only way I can detach and begin to heal and delve into the reasons why I placed my entire happiness in the hands of a woman who was unavailable and incapable of having the kind of r/s I craved.

It has been a very sobering thing coming on here and discovering what is going on in my head and looking at my co-dependency issues. Keep coming back to these boards and sharing your experience with us. You will get the help and wisdom you need here. I look forward to reading more of your story on here.

RF

[enlighten me]

I wish it was a brain chemistry issue, or a mental illness because that would mean a prescription would fix it like with bipolars. Unfortunately it is an emotional disorder not a mental illness. So there is no chemical imbalance in the brain. The BPD acts the way they do because of severe emotional trauma from childhood which can take years of therapy to address.

This might be the party line but there is no evidence that pwBPD are the way they are due to emotional trauma. There is however physical evidence showing differences in the brain structure of pwBPD.

Not everything can be fixed by a prescription. Something as complicated as BPD which fluctuates would be almost impossible to medicate. DBT however does seem to show improvement This could be due to brain plasticity where a different part of the brain could be trained to take over the role of a maladaptive part of the brain. This has been seen with stroke victims who learn to speak or walk again by training a different part of the brain.

[heartandwhole]

A discussion on biological, psychological, and environmental causes of Personality Disorders  belongs on THE PSYCHOLOGY OF PERSONALITY DISORDERS board:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=45.0;sort=views;desc

There are a number of statements about the disorder in this thread that do not align with the accepted "state of the art" and it is helpful to stay close to the accepted conventions and their evolution, rather than speculate from a place of emotional trauma.

2.1 Collegium, Not Debate: bpdfamily.com is set up as a collegium. We follow a Collegial Discussion format which is characterized as having "authority" vested equally among colleagues/peers. As such, members present their ideas in "collegial harmony" and the credibility of their positions are based solely on the quality of the points they advance in writing. Diversity is to be embraced - there is often much to be learned from others views and perspectives. Collegial Discussion is the exchange of ideas, not a debate or an argument to be won. Our common interests and goals are what brings us together - let it not be what comes between us. Please be mindful that one of the important roles we all have is to help “center” others, not pile on or inflame emotional unrest. Member should not "hijack" the threads of others by changing the subject. All posts should be targeted to the subject matter introduced by the host of the thread. Our individual thoughts and ideas are important to each of us. Members shall be patient and understanding of other members that are in different stages of the learning or healing process or have different opinions than their own.

Please note that collegial discussion is different than debate. Debate is an argument or a discussion generally ending with a vote or agreement on the best decision. In debate, unity is the objective. Members are discouraged from debating and arguing against others' positions, or questioning the wisdom of others, or restating of their position repeatedly.
https://bpdfamily.com/guidelines#collegium

[NotOverHer]

Hi Skip: Thanks for a very well worded response. I have tried to introspectively analyze what brought me into that situation, as well as tried to understand how it evolved. I do realize that I was co-dependent in this relationship. A term that I did not know until I figured out she had BPD, and started reading more on the subject. The relationship evolved to where I needed her for validation. When she would pull away, it would leave me distraught, and feeling desperate. But I am usually not a co-dependent person. My previous relationships were not co-dependent. I think it may have been the euphoric highs that came from her idolizing me. These are addictive. And when they are suddenly removed, even for a few hours (when you are used to texting every 30 minutes), it leaves you in withdrawal. I do not have an addictive personality. I have never abused alcohol or drugs. But I definitely was addicted to her. This is part of the pain of the separation.

To clarify, when she met me for dinner, it was because me and my girls were having dinner with her stepdaughter, and her and her husband came to join us later. Even though he was right there next to her, she was still looking at me with the most attracted look, almost drooling. She later told me she was "Feigning" me, which I did not know the meaning in that context. According to the urban dictionary screen shot she sent me later, it means ":)esperately needing or desiring something - usually in relation to drugs, alcohol, or sex.". Her coming on to me with her husband next to her should have been a red flag. But I was too flattered to notice. And I definitely did not know that it is a common thing that those with BPD will do.

To answer your questions: It definitely was not a primary relationship, but a situational fling. Your description of me as a career man, and her as the love struck young woman, is spot on. I realize that I had been going through a mid life crisis. Then here comes this young, sweet, beautiful, smart and funny blonde bombshell. Nothing happened on that trip. The only time we were alone together was when everyone was in the pool Jacuzzi together, and the kids took off to play. It was only her and I left. We had all been snorkeling in Maui, hearing the whales under the water, before we went to the Jacuzzi. And the sun set with an amazing fiery orange color, as a beautiful full-moon was rising. It was ethereal. But this was only for a about 90 minutes, and only a few hours before we all met up for dinner as I wrote above. At the time, I only thought we had a visual and emotional connection, and that was it. But she kept texting me with more and more flirtatious texts after she went home. After a few weeks, she said she wanted to come see me in my city.

She always devalued her husband, and until I realized she had BPD, believed everything she said about him. When she finally left him, she told me it was because he beat her "Because I complained to him about his morning alarm going off early on the weekend". Now that I know about BPD, she likely started raging on him before he raged on her. This was the beginning of the end for us. This was when her idolizing me disappeared. It continued to deteriorate until the discard about 7 weeks later.

The reason I was using the term sociopath was because of how she called me to tell me that she had unprotected sex with a relative stranger 3 times in one night, and that she was flying off to the East coast to be with him for the weekend. This was only a few weeks since the last time we had been together. She presented it as if she was crying on my shoulder, telling me how she was afraid she may have contracted an STD, that I was the only person in the world she could talk to about this, wanting reassurance that all would be fine for her. Seemingly having absolutely no concern that saying this to someone who was your romantic partner until the week before, shows a complete lack of concern for the other person's feelings. And the fact that I have not heard from her at all since the following day, when I had my "Closure" meeting with her, also makes me think that she has moved on, without any remorse or any further feelings for me. I was definitely not trying to use the term as a derogatory term, though I do realize it does sound derogatory. I do think that it is pathological. And would not fit the term "Psychopath" which I think is reserved for those who commit criminal actions with absolutely no remorse. To me, "Sociopath" involves the ability to hurt others emotionally with no remorse. I think that is a common issue with BPD. When she was saying things that were obviously going to be hurtful to me, they were said with a deer-in-the-headlights look, with no remorse, compassion or concern for how it would affect me. The body language spoke as loud as the words, that it was a "deal-with-it" attitude.

To me, the term empathy means being able to put yourself in the other person's shoes, to be able to show understanding for how they might feel. I do agree with everything you said about empathy, and how affairs can lead to strong, compartmentalized emotions. That was definitely the case for her here. As a matter of fact, she used that exact term "Compartmentalizing" her feelings for me. I just don't think that's something I can do. If I have strong feelings, that's what I have. I can't bundle them up and place them into a container and forget about them.

Skip, your post was very enlightening and insightful. She did treat me like her knight in shining armor, and had me convinced that I really was the best thing that ever happened to her. It was too good to be true, but why wouldn't I believe what she was telling me? And you are absolutely right that there was very little deep understanding about each other. She did not understand much about me - because she never really tried to. She rarely asked me personal questions about my life. I asked her about her personal life a lot more, but only got general superficial answers. Definitely nothing you would consider helpful to building a relationship.

Like others, this site, and the ability to post about my emotions, and to read how others have been going through very similar experiences, has been the single most helpful part of my return to normalcy. Than you all for your supportive words, open comments, and empathy (no pun intended).

[Skip]

I say this to help with piecing this together, not to defend or justify her actions or to question yours. Just trying to advance this from rant to postmortem.

Maybe the reason she could openly chat with you about sex with the new guy is that she has always understood the relationship as polyamorous and thought you would expect her to seek a new primary partner.  Now that she is divorced, having sex with other men (just as she did before with her husband) is more of the same. She also might expect that you would understand that she will ideally seek a relationship that can stand on its own and not need an adjunct relationship (like finding a "you" who is fully available). What are the norms and rules in situations where a primary relationship dissolves and there is an adjunct relationship without the possibility of becoming primary? Who knows. From her perspective, she could reasonably think you were out of bounds to think she should limit her relationship life to seeing you one night every couple of weeks or to need to seek your approval to see others.

That said, if, once you expressed hurt, she could not at least empathize with your hurt, that would certainly be an indication of impaired empathy. The fact that she cheated on her husband for 14 months with no remorse would also be an indication of impaired empathy... .but then again, clearly there were problems and the affair could have been the early stage of her detaching from her marriage -  she did ultimately leave him.  It could also be, that if you were available all along that she would have pursued your relationship further. Surely, at some point she realized that she was in two dead-ended relationships.

Why do I bring this up? I think it will help to understand how much of this trauma was situational and how much was chronic pathology.  I'm not questioning your assessment that she had BPD traits - you obviously have done your homework and have a sense of it all. I am suggesting that this relationship may have been walking dead for quite some time for macro reasons and its not about her rejecting you, but more about the bigger issue of her failing marriage and her desire to find a new primary relationship partner. It naturally had to go to this place - there was no other place for it to go. This can all happen without pathology or malice.

We see this in rebound relationships on the site, too. Member often don't see that there was a bigger story playing out. Every time a marriage fails, there are usually a one or people who end up innocently becoming collateral damage - common for most marriage failures, not just BPD.

Now overlay the BPD traits to the extent that you think she has them, and look at how even moderate or sub-clinical traits could amplify an already convoluted situation so that it could feel like you were dealing with Deidre Hunt - a true sociopath.

This stuff hurts like hell and its really hard to piece it all together when we are involved in a subplot. I got caught in rebound relationship (twice I'm sorry to say). When it happens it is really easy to get caught looking at the trees and miss the forest. I couldn't make sense of the first one for years. It was devastating. I didn't know what hit me.  The second one I could see unfolding (because of the first) and it helped immensely in my recovery. Neither was mentally ill.

You also mentioned that you can not compartmentalize - but you did. You compartmentalized this relationship and your marriage. In your marriage (from your family's point of view) there was ongoing "deceitfulness for personal pleasure, lack of remorse - rationalizing having hurt, or mistreatment of others". Does that make you a sociopath? You had no intention to end it, right?  I think, as you say, this behavior was also situational. You haven't done this in the past. This is why I suggested that sociopath is too strong a term for either partner in this affair.

Lastly, the addiction to idealization that you mention. If this is true, your pain may be less about codependency (creating self-worth by fixing someone) and may be more about an insecure attachment style that you developed with your parents and early caretakers. This can happen in the best of homes and this type of relationship could surely trigger latent feeling of worth.

There were a number of parallel dynamics going on in this relationship - this would confuse and deeply wound anyone.

[NotOverHer]

Skip: Thank you for your post. A lot of the things you said made me stop and think, and try to analyze the hows and whys. I try to always be open minded, and evaluate all the possibilities.

In retrospect, and analyzing the r/s, I just don't remember any response from her that I could label a show of empathy. Maybe I am blinded currently because of the harshness of the way it ended. Being told about her ending it one day, then about the new guy the following week.

She occasionally would accuse me of sleeping with other women when I was out for childhood friends she didn't know. When I told her that it was not the case at all, because I loved her and was in love with her. I told her that we were "Exclusive", and asked her if she agreed, at which point she told me "Yes, 100% exclusive". She'd told me she had no intentions to even date people, as her divorce was only a month old. I told her that she needed to, but to let me know when she would start dating, so I could prepare myself. I think a non-BPD, a month after a divorce, would be slow about starting a new r/s. That was what she had convinced me she was going to do. To her credit, she did wait until after the discard to tell me about her having sex 3 times in 1 night with the new guy the previous week.

There are many issues that made me confident she has BPD.

1. She started idolizing me 48 hours after we'd met, when we barely knew each other. And we never really got to know each other. She barely got to know me because she never asked me personal questions about me, about my life. And I barely got to know her because she never expanded on why she only saw her parents once a year, or why she barely talked to any of her sisters. Just stating things like "We just don't get along".
2. She has admitted to me to having chronic feelings of "Being down and feeling empty inside" without really knowing why. These were much more prominent at the end of our r/s.
3. She has a promiscuous past. Having told me that, in the year after her first divorce, she would go to singles bars, meet men, and perform oral sex on them. When I asked her how many men that would be, she told me "Over fifty". Another obvious red flag, that I ignored because I was in love.
4. The pattern of idolizing me in the first few months, and telling me I was "The best lover" she'd ever had, "The most amazing man" shed ever met", and that I was "Perfect" in every way, followed within a few months by her detaching, not answering texts for hours, and acting frustrated at my "Behavior".
5. Repeated fear of abandonment, which came out as I would back off after her first episodes of pulling away from me.
6. Severely demeaning her ex-husband, who she told me had drowned a kitten, and who apparently was more into transsexuals than into her. And maybe she was telling me the truth. But now that I know about BPD, I am skeptical.
7. The way she discarded me, a few weeks after a romantic weekend together. And the fact that she first starts a new relationship before she has ended mine.

As I looked at the DSM criteria from BPD, she had almost all of them. The only one that I did not note in my 14 month r/s with her is the self-harming. I am not aware of that being present, at least not in front of me.

As part of my trying to be introspective, and see which of my issues caused me to end up in this situation, I have learned a lot about me. I know more about my personality, my faults, and my personal issues. I thank you for your excellent analysis of me having more of an "Insecure attachment style", than co-dependency issues. That was enlightening for me.

I also have been journaling daily, as I see myself cycling between the 5 stages of grief. When I am at the Anger phase, I realize it. It does not make me less angry at her. But it does help me to accept it. I am mostly over the Angry phase, and feel that I now tend to cycle more between Depression and Acceptance, occasionally reverting back to Anger for a few hours. Overall, I do see a significant progress in my getting over her.

But again, I try to be open minded, and not think that I am progressing too fast, as I know that setbacks are common in detaching from a failed r/s with a BPD. I feel mostly good about the NC, though I occasionally feel disappointed at her for not even checking in on me. But my logical side reminds me that this is for the better.

I've gone through varying feelings of love, hate, confusion, despair, and acceptance. I still think of her most of my waking hours. But these thoughts are now rarely bringing me down. So the intensity of the emotions have decreased significantly. Now I'm looking forward to decreasing the frequency of her emotional presence in my mind during my every day life.

And as I mentioned before, the single most important thing in helping me get over her, and perhaps more importantly make me realize that there was nothing different I could've done to save the relationship, has been the ability to discuss my situation openly with others, who have been through an eerily similar one, on this site. And to be able to get understanding, excellent advice, and support from you Skip, and the others, has been a lifesaver. I appreciate your support beyond words. I understand that writing a reply in support of a fellow non-BPD can be time consuming, and selfless. And it is highly appreciated.

[jambley]

   
And as I mentioned before, the single most important thing in helping me get over her, and perhaps more importantly make me realize that there was nothing different I could've done to save the relationship

You, like many others in the site with BPD relationships did your best. You can't win with them, no matter how much effort you put in, it is not reciprocated and in my experience the goal posts keep moving.

It is very confusing trying to detach from a dysfunctional relationship and most pwBPD are oblivious they have BPD if not diagnosed.

You can't save them or fix them.Stay strong.

[Seenowayout]

Mine couldn't remember my birthday either.  Never bought me anything.  Birthday, Christmas, Easter --- nothing.  Cooked me dinner once in 2 years together.   But idealized me in the beginning -- only man she ever loved (married three times).  Tattooed my name on her side.  I was the best of everything.  Then when she had me I wasn't so great anymore.  I was shady, leaving her, looking at other women -- like all of her exes -- I wasn't of course, and now I wonder about those poor guys.   How can a person actually believe after so many relationships that its not them at all -- that the world is that bad?  And they are such a victim?  Insanity