Contacting the other man...

[dadistrying]

Hello All,

I just need help. This morning I discovered the other man who had been contacting wife prior to hospitalization in December tried calling her again.

It's a complicated back story but here is the abridged, my wife was in contact with this person prior to her hospitalization. The night of her hospitalization, she had been drinking heavily and asked him for nude pictures. A full manic blowout ensued. As I drove her to the hospital she tried to jump out on the highway and when I locked the doors she called him in front of me and proceeded to tell him that she loves him, etc. During this hospitalization, she received her BPD dx. Upon release she had continued contact with him that has according to her ceased. However, at least once per month, she receives a phone call from him. From what I can tell, she has not answered or returned the call.

For months I have held such deep hurt, such rage, such a feeling of disrespect. For months, I have had my doubts and insecurities swirling in my head. For months I have been cleaning up a mess that wasn't created by me, clinging onto my marriage by my teeth. I had enough and texted the guy and told him to back off, show some respect - if someone doesn't want to be contacted by you leave them alone. My wife seemed very bothered that I got involved and I communicated to her that I love you, I have proven to you that I'm not going anywhere, but I am beyond tired. I'm tired of feeling disrespected, I'm tired of walking around with such a burning rage inside of me, I'm tired of not mattering. I asked her to imagine how she would feel if the tables were turned, the pain, the rage, the emotions that have been bottled up inside me for months; I couldn't keep quiet anymore.

She grew silent and stared off into space. She didn't want me fighting with him. He lives in another state, in the middle of the country (so realistically speaking, it's not as if though they can physically meet). However, I just unloaded onto him (previously he had been stalking my online presence (liking my work's Facebook page, etc.). I felt like the time had come to remind him that I'm still here, to ask him to respect my wife's wishes and to stop keeping everything inside.

I can tell my wife was upset, maybe it was more with herself than me. I'm not really sure (this hasn't been our first rodeo with infidelity issues). I have not heard from here since I left for work this morning. I'm not sure if just stirred the pot for no reason, but I did communicate with my wife that I'm tired of everyone else coming before me, not just our kids (I'd expect our kids to come first, as they should) but other people - people who meddle in our relationship, our family, our life. I'm tired of being hurt, angry. She started to get defensive and I said I'm just tired of cleaning up and dealing with a mess I didn't create. I reminded her again that I love her but none of this is fair to me. How can I move on if the problem isn't going away.

I'm just so lost. I have forgiven my wife but the hurt is there. I try to be romantic, I try to be intimate, but none of it feels requited. I'm lucky if we have sex once a month and it's not because I don't try to show interest. But all this compounds into exacerbating my trust issues that she created. I never had trust issues until I was with her and had to deal with the cheating, the lies, etc. I'm trying so hard to let go, but the pain I feel is raw. I forgive her, I don't hate her but I'm still hurting and coping.

Any advice would be appreciated. I'm at a loss.

[formflier]

Bad idea for you to call him.

BAD... .

It "cements" a triangle... .triangles are bad.

If you feel the need or believe it healthy to "communicate" to him, hire a lawyer to write him a letter.  

This is not something you personally should be involved in.

Focus your energy on your wife.  If you become convinced that your wife is using this other relationship to mess with your relationship, it's her choice.  At some point you may have to respect her choice.

"Fixing it" for her is rarely... .rarely a good idea.

FF

[dadistrying]

Bad idea for you to call him.

BAD... .

It "cements" a triangle... .triangles are bad.

If you feel the need or believe it healthy to "communicate" to him, hire a lawyer to write him a letter.  

This is not something you personally should be involved in.

Focus your energy on your wife.  If you become convinced that your wife is using this other relationship to mess with your relationship, it's her choice.  At some point you may have to respect her choice.

"Fixing it" for her is rarely... .rarely a good idea.

FF

Hi there FF thank you for the feedback. I feel like I'm at a crossroads. I have found myself developing anxiety and sleep issues and matters have only become more difficult as our oldest son (age 3) was recently diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. This has only added to the anxiety and inability to sleep. I love her, I feel I have proven myself time and time again, but I feel like I don't matter. I feel disrespected and the hurt still lingers on. Today I reached a breaking point and acted out of emotion. I feel like I'm trying my hardest to keep everyone together, but I am becoming more and more unhappy. I now have severe trust issues (with her) that stem from a long cycle of cheating incidences, numerous lies, etc. that have formed a huge cloud of doubt over myself and what I truly mean to her. How does someone cheat on the person they claim to be their everything? How do you tell another person that you love them?

I'm not sure what to do, I know that ultimately she does love our children. In the grand scheme of things - considering our son's diagnosis it would be in the best interest of our boys that we could make this work, but I've grown increasingly unhappy. The intimacy we once had isn't what it used to be. Many times I feel unwanted and have had thoughts of leaving my marriage or entertaining the idea of talking to someone else.

Our previous issues were what I would have considered "settled" after the birth of our boys ages 2 & 3, but everything came roaring back with a vengeance when her grandfather (who raised her and was father, and the closest person in her life) was diagnosed with cancer and died about a year ago via a legal euthanasia. After his diagnosis, she also reconnected with her biological father, which ended in a disaster. Many hurtful things were said to her, painful things that even a person without BPD would be difficult to handle.

Around the time of these events, we once again began to experience our issues. I'm completely at a loss. Sometimes I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle. I truly do love her, but I wonder how much am I supposed to take? I'm hoping it will get better - obviously, it is very complex and today I finally had a breaking point and acted with emotion, but I don't know what else to do to finally be heard, to finally feel like there is mutual respect. I'm incredibly tired, I can no longer get a decent's night sleep, I become anxious often and I am the one managing care for both her and our son. I don't mind managing their care, because that is what love is - but dealing with other people interfering in our relationship, feeling like I don't matter, lack of intimacy between us; it is all starting to take its toll on me. I don't feel at peace anymore. I keep waiting for the bricks to come tumbling down again and for my life to once again implode. I'm not sure there's much advice anyone can offer, logically I know this is unhealthy. I just wish we went back to the time when she was pregnant and up until her grandfather's diagnosis. During this time-frame there were absolutely no issues between.

I'm worried our son's type 1 diagnosis in late April might be triggering the next domino effect. I'm just at loss. Thank you for letting me vent. It's super appreciated!

[formflier]

  How does someone cheat on the person they claim to be their everything? How do you tell another person that you love them?

Clarity:  We will never know for sure EXACTLY why your wife does things.  I can give a general explanation for these types of disorders.  If that rings true for what you have seen, perhaps it will help you to empathize with your wife.

BPDish type disorders lead people to have "feelings" that change so rapidly... .it causes most people's heads to spin. 

It is likely when she felt she loved you, it was genuine and she felt it with all her heart.

Then... .poof... .

Another feeling came along and she felt that very very strongly and really didn't remember the old feeling.  Let's assume she "felt bad about you"... .then she acted on that.  In reality, she likely felt bad about herself and "projected" that onto you.

Then... .poof... .

She loves you again... .doesn't remember when she hated you and is "perplexed" that you are hurt by her previous actions, she honestly doesn't "feel" she did them or is responsible for him, since she doesn't have those feelings.

Poof... .

Wash rinse repeat... .

Please don't share this with your wife... .or heaven forbid try to convince her of these things.

If this rings true with the pattern you have seen... .perhaps you can have a better understanding of her and her wildly fluctuating feelings.

What do you think?

FF

[dadistrying]

Hi FF, thank you for continuing to share your thoughts. What you describe does sound very familiar. I think the part I gravel with is that she has also told those that she has cheated with that she loved them. This includes the person I make mention of in the OP. What swirls in my head is - does she love that person in the same way she loves me? is love just words to her? am I just a pawn in a bigger game? does she even love me at all or does she use that word just to get what she wants? All of these doubts now swirl around in my head and I can't quite figure out where the truth lies. I'd like to believe she truly does love me, but maybe she also feels that way about others... .I feel like she's constantly preparing a back-up plan just in case I leave. I have communicated to her how that makes me feel, how it diminishes the value of our relationship and how hurtful that is. I have told her she makes me feel like I can be easily replaced and do not matter with that behavior.

Post hospitalization I indicated and explained to her exactly what love means and entails to me and why her saying she loves another person is so hurtful to me. I also explained that when it comes to this person, I would never be comfortable with her continuing to talk to them. I didn't care if she wasn't in her right state of mind at the time or not. She had inappropriate contact and should the roles be reversed I know she would be adamant that I cease contact with that person too.

All of this led to my hasty reaction this morning. I have no proof she has been reciprocating contact but she tends to act secretive with her phone, messages (deleting calls and messages), etc. and has been reluctant in changing her phone number too (excuses range from: our son's doctors have that number, etc.). I feel like I am trapped in a mess I didn't create and ultimately other than herself, I'm the one who deals with the brunt of their actions followed by our children (to a lesser extent).

[formflier]

she has cheated with that she loved them.

It is likely that at the moment she spoke those words... .she genuinely felt that way and genuinely did not remember feeling any other way.

When she spoke the same or similar words to you, it is likely she genuinely... .with all her heart felt she loved you. 

For each of those statements... .add "at that moment".  The feelings of BPDish people come and go so quickly... .especially when their emotions are stirred up. 

For contrast... .it is unlikely that a BPDish person "plotted" to confuse you or change her feelings.  She was likely "reacting"... .vice acting.

Note:  I'm not saying that because of this... .you should stay with her... .or leave her.   I DO want you to understand what it's like to be her... .which is VERY DIFFERENT than what it is like to be you.

Does that make sense?  You remember and experience things in a very different way than she does. 

You can use that knowledge to help calm (somewhat) the relationship.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

I'm a bit confused with the situation you are in, but let me summarize what I understand about it, and suggest some actions/directions for your action.

1. Your wife seems to have a long-distance relationship / emotional affair with another guy. (You do not mention physical time together/sex.)

2. She sounds unwilling to stop communicating with him, and is evasive/secretive about her communications.

3. It has gone on for at least months on and off, perhaps longer.

4. She's done things like this before with others.

5. You have already told him that you do not appreciate his involvement with your wife/your marriage.

Is all this correct?

So... .here are two fundamental (and hard) truths.

1. You cannot control his actions--it is his choice to contact your wife (or not)

You've told him once... .drop it from here--you aren't in a r/s with him, you don't even have influence with him, and he has no reason to honor your requests. Cease contact with him and be done with him.

More importantly, no matter how badly he's behaving, he's not the one who made any sort of marriage vow to you!

Put your focus on the person you do care about, who did make a vow to you--your wife... .and the other hard truth:

2. You cannot control your wife's actions. It is her choice to contact him (or not)

If she wants to cheat... .or if she just wants/needs to keep another guy on a hook, she will do that. If not with him, with somebody else.

You can ask her not to, for your marriage... .I'm sure you have... .and you will have to decide what you are willing to do if she cannot honor that request.

[A Different Me]

Sounds like you might in a cycle of abuse where she is feeding off the other guy-
in a healthy relationship these behaviors don't exist, you may believe her and have forgiven her - but if it is still cyclic it's not healthy.
Protect yourself from any future event of being discarded.

Very sorry for the pain you are enduring on and up and down basis, I was there and it's not pleasant at all- especially when sleep deprivation sets in.