My wife asked for divorce for Nth time...I'm tired and confused

[i8000b]

I cannot even count the amount or emotional roller coaster is there. Until yesterday, I was totally baffled as how can she act so irrationally.
I always thought what is wrong with her?

Today by mere accident, it hit me when I read all the symptoms of BPD, most matches her.
I read experience of others, and it exactly describes my wife (highly functional, invisible category).

The thing is, I do love her. She is a good woman. But I cannot take it anymore... .the amount of patience and sheer will I have to exercise as to not get angry or upset and to stay positive all the time around her to avoid any emotional outburst or mishap is something I cannot handle anymore.
Mind you, before her flight took off, she called me to tell me that she loves me, and asked: How are you?
I was speechless... .

From what I read and gather around, it is very difficult to treat, assuming the client themselves wishes to be treated (I haven't told her yet, she is on a trip and will be back on Monday). And it is a matter of YEARS, if it ever changes or happen.

I'm not sure what to do anymore. Big part of me says: run away! Another part thinks: maybe give her one last chance, to see if she is willing to go see a therapist?
I'm not sure if I should tell her or not. The biggest part of me says yes, because I am very honest person (strong value) + I love her (maybe one day even when we are not together, she'll give it a shot, and that may reflect positively on her life) + I decided to live life truthfully, so not telling her would be against my values.

Please help.

[i8000b]

I'm feeling really terrible. The more I read, the more I realize how true she is a BPD, which actually makes me feel worse.

Am I abandoning her? Am I being selfish for not waiting for years to see IF and only IF we can make it work?

After reading https://bpdfamily.com/content/borderline-personality-disorder, it is like I'm recalling all the situations I had with my wife.

In a way I feel she is an adult, and it is not my fault and I should not put up with this abuse. In a way also, I feel like this is an abandonment.  I'm crying.

EDIT: What is even worse, in my country... .psychology and therapy clinics are very rare, restricted only to major hospitals... and overall, they suck.

[Turkish]

What kinds of things happen which trigger her to ask for divorce?

Given the level of conflict in the marriage,  would telling her she has a mental illness help or hurt? This is a common question.  Take a look at this discussion:

1.05 | Telling Someone You Think They Have BPD

Here is a top level over view: https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-to-get-borderline-into-therapy

I told my ex once.  She told me later it scared the crap out of her.  After a lot of googling, she came to me and said that she thought she had some kind of "attachment disorder." By then,  I had read the material here and didn't offer my opinion.  I didn't want to make things worse. She had already accused me of shaming her so many times.   

pwBPD not only struggle with often uncontrollable emotions, but also a core sense of shame,  i.e., "I'm a bad person,  unworthy of love." Focusing upon the symptoms may be more fruitful. Learning ways to reduce conflict on your side can certainly be so (as frustrating and hurtful as things can be,  we can control our reactions).

You said that resources are limited where you are.  Even so,  has she ever been in therapy for anything else like depression or anxiety? How available are therapy recources for you on order to get support?

To start, take a look at the resources in the right margin.  I know it's a lot of material. I sense that you are anxious,  and certainly struggling,  but we are here for you. You have a few days before she gets back to talk and perhaps digest a few of the communication tools.  

Turkish

[i8000b]

Thanks for responding. Yes I'm reading as much as I can from the site. It is really an amazing resource.

From what I understand of the trigger, because I "got on with my life" and didn't spend time with her, that triggered the abandonment, as I am not giving her attention.
No, she has not been into therapy before.

I am still thinking of how to approach the whole thing... like to divorce or not, am I willing to deal with this for years?
Also, telling her... I am not sure this is the best thing to do (from your experience as well, sorry about that... .seems saying directly is not the best way).

Yes I am trying to absorb as much as I can. For communication tools, well... I'm a life coach, so much of what the tools are about are things I already do. At the same time, I see room for improvement (naturally, as a coach, I always want to improve)... yet I am not sure I want to even go through it.
I will learn these tools, for myself... because I think it is good to grow as a person. I am not sure these tools will solve the problem.

Marriages into complicated. I already have to deal with her emotional states that she cannot have kids. I accept her for that. I never faulted her, and been supportive as we approached alternatives. To have to deal also with a disorder that takes years, which may or may not be resolved. I do not know... I really do not know.

I already have been trying for a year, a lot of what is in the tools of listening, empathizing, listening to hear fears are things I already do.
Can I continue doing this for life? walking on eggshells or mines? No. I am a very vocal/expression person, and it is part of my core values.

I don't know... I do not know. I'm also tired.
And no, there are very limited resources in my country for this kind of thing. I know first hand also as I know few people who have depression, and clinical support is pretty crap.

EDIT: no matter what, I'll read all the resources, especially on the right "choosing a path", I'm doing that and will try to absorb as much of the site tools as possible.
It'll help "stop the bleeding" and minimize the damage at least. Thanks for pointing that out.

I am still torn mentally... like is sticking with her is just the rescuer in me trying to "fix" things... or should I move on.

[Turkish]

Anyone who's known me over the years has said on an easy going and validating person. I have no doubt that you know the tools,  in general,  yet in a relationship, we can be blind sided.  We have members here who are therapists, still struggling. In a r/s, the professional boundaries aren't there.  I'm glad that you mentioned core values.  This is one of my favorite discussions on the site: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=36.0

Her departing message is certainly confusing.  Hard to know what she wants.

[i8000b]

Thank you Turkish, I'll check the thread.
You are right, and this is why I concurred by saying I have a lot to learn and grow. I'm using this as an opprotunity to learn new tools and grow as a person... it helps lessen the pain, to be honest too.

I don't see her message to be confusing. Isn't this part of BPD? Extreme mood swings, she is angry because I ignored her and lived my day, she feels frustrated, enable to get her anger out. The fact I deal with her calmly is retaliated by saying things like: I'm cold, I do not love her, etc. And she goes into serious rage when it turns physical (nothing extreme, just scratching, biting, light hitting).
I'm used to her telling me one thing, and next day says the complete opposite, and to deny she even did, or even if she did she says she changed her mind. Her feelings changed.
I can go on and on, really... .

So I do not think her behavior is confusing, it is BPD.

EDIT: the link you gave me refers to a board, not to an actual thread like you said.

[Turkish]

I apologize. This should work: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368.0;all

Regarding her violence, are there recources locally which can help?

[i8000b]

Thank you... I'm still thinking about it.

Part of me loves her, and also I realize that I need to be a different person, and get rid of the "rescuer/fixer" side of me totally.
Part of me dread the journey, I already have to put up with the fact she is infertile... this is yet one more baggage to carry.
I also realize that not everything I want in a woman I can get from here.


Can anyone share their experience on how they decided, maybe it'll give me insight on the process I should go about.

[BeagleGirl]

I already have to put up with the fact she is infertile... this is yet one more baggage to carry.

i8000b,
Your posts indicate to me that you are the type of person who wants to learn and grow, so I hope that you won't be offended by my giving some insight into the quote above.

I am a woman who has struggled with infertility.  It is a very painful experience for both men and women to be unable to create a child. It can have a unique impact on the person who is identified as the infertile one. It is very difficult to not internalize and feel broken, defective, less than, responsible, bad... .  I know you have a LOT to deal with from your pwBPD that is (arguably) within her control. I hope that you will consider focusing on those things and seek understanding/a forgiving attitude in the area of her infertility, which is outside of her control.

BG

[BeagleGirl]

Editing to say that I don't think it's a topic you should avoid discussing, especially here where you can get more informed support. Just wanted to make you aware of how that statement came across. I, for one, would be happy to provide any emotional support or insight into what you are going through when facing the pain of infertility. I know how underestimated a man's experience of that kind of pain can be.

[i8000b]

Hello BeagleGirl,

Thank you for your insight, and yes, I love to learn and grow. Don't hold back, truthfulness is part of my core values.

It sounds me like you have been through a lot. I can relate to your pain as I and my wife have tried all sort of things to no avail.

It seems I sent the wrong message in my desperation and confusion (having had anything to eat for 2 days, sleeping in bed most of the time).
I totally accept my wife's condition, and I never used it in ANY discussion or argument. In fact, I do not take that against her nor I harbor any ill feelings toward her because of it. If anything, I helped her (maybe I didn't... .) to move on around this subject, and the only evidence I have that it has worked is that she cries much less, far more confident than before.

Having said that, it is not really easy on me, given that I'm in my 30's, and want to start a family and cannot. (where I live, adoption is not a legal option, and I do not want to go into details around that). It took a great deal for me to deal with it on my own (I never got my wife into it or complained about it or seek her emotional support, I simply dealt with it by myself as I don't want to burden her and make her feel guilty)


So BeagleGirl, I may need emotional support about the infertility, because it is something I have always suppressed, but I guess this is not the forum to discuss it, so if you are OK with it, maybe we can take it to PM as it is a lot of private details too I do not want to publish on the web. If not, I completely understand.

So, why did I mention it?

Now I have extra things to have to carry the burden, lead in charge. To be completely honest, even the attempts to get pregnant and IVF cycles we tried, has been lead by me. I read the medications, I dealt with the doctors, I read about the condition, and I have been the one educating her about her condition all along. (you think she'd be grateful? rarely, but mostly that I'm a nagging freak)(#2 I learnt now through this amazing site that I should step back, let her fail and learn to be independent, which is easier said than done... how do you sit back and watch your loved one struggle and make tons of mistakes in almost every facet of life and just not help? something I have to internalize and figure out somehow)

So, now that I know she is uBPD, I have to be the emotional caretaker.
More responsibility.
I'm a freelancer, so I have enough burden as it stands, while I enjoy "being responsible" and "being in charge", it has turned that I have to take care of almost everything. I'm like a follow-up machine.
I can't handle that, and I have always wondered: "why doesn't she learn? After going through the same discussions/arguments, or doing the same thing many many times, why doesn't stick?". Now I sort of have the answer, or some form of answer.

So, in the last 2 days, I have been thinking non-stop on what should I do?
I still can't find an answer. I do not feel I'm ready to go through divorce. Part of me is resisting.
is it because:
* fear of leaving comfort zone?
* fear or being alone (as a rescuer/fixer)?
* love? but how much of that love is true love and not just addiction/chemistry to the "highs" of the relationship?
* life logistics and complication? (I had to move across the country for my wife's job and left my home for that)

So, should I move on, should I stay? I know that no one can answer this question to me, but I was hoping to hear the experience of those who stuck through with BPD, and how is it for them, and maybe those who moved on? I may pick up cues on how to internalize my own answer.

[formflier]

Perhaps instead of considering a decision to divorce or not... .can be break it into smaller... .more manageable decisions.

Perhaps more practical and immediate decisions.

Do I respond to a divorce threat or not?

Do I listen to a divorce threat or not?


things like that.  Expect there to be some trial and error here.

Look at the big picture.  If she wanted a divorce... .she would already have one. 

Big breath... .think about it.  Think about it until you have it firmly in your head that it is true.

So... .is a divorce threat about divorce? 

Important to not rush the thinking on this... .make sure you have it firmly in your head, however you want to approach it. 

Thoughts?

FF

[i8000b]

Perhaps instead of considering a decision to divorce or not... .can be break it into smaller... .more manageable decisions.

Perhaps more practical and immediate decisions.

Do I respond to a divorce threat or not?

Thoughts?

FF

I like this approach, yes.

I think the biggest question is more or line the first one you asked: do I respond to divorce threat or not?
My answer is: No.

I seem to be more inclined to want to try for a bit all the tools in this site and a bit more, and give it a shot for the next month or two. I'll focus on myself, and take care of myself. I'll learn to be a better communicator for myself, because that is a great life skill to have and use.

What comes after of that is big fuzzy area... .I'll try to use your approach of breaking it down to smaller pieces; maybe write down all the questions that are bugging me, then take it from there.

Thanks for the tip.

[BeagleGirl]

i8000b,
    Please feel free to PM me, but I will give the disclaimer that there are much better resources that will be able to speak to you as a man vs. me as a woman.  The main thing I can offer is some understanding of what is unique about going through this with a person with BPD.

    A little about my journey - I conceived my two sons (S18 and S14) when I was 21 and 26 with no trouble (felt like I just thought about conceiving and peed on a stick, and there they were).  I wanted a third and possibly fourth, but it had taken quite a while for me to talk BPDh into child #2 and it took until I was 35 before BPDh was willing to consider #3.  I once again conceived pretty much immediately, but then miscarried at 6 weeks.  I then went through about 10 months of "conception obsession".  I did not want to undergo medical intervention (other than progesterone to try to correct shortened luteal phase) but it seemed like my every waking moment revolved around tracking my cycle and ensuring I did everything I could to conceive.  I wore myself out and suffered deep disappointment every month.  I finally decided that I would just not prevent pregnancy and leave it at that.  That went on for another 3 years where I either was not conceiving or was miscarrying early enough to not realize I was pregnant (I couldn't bring myself to take pregnancy tests during those years). Then 2 years ago I conceived again and thought all my prayers had been answered, only to miscarry at 7 weeks.  I conceived and miscarried two more times that year.  I think you may understand better than most how absolutely crushing that was.

It's taken a very long time, and I still don't "own" this feeling all the time, but I have finally made some semblance of peace with the pain of those 4 miscarriages and the infertility between them in knowing that I probably wouldn't have found the strength to separate from BPDh if I had a 6 or 2 year old around.  I would have been carrying an even greater financial and emotional burden than I do now, and I don't know if I could have stepped out of the abusive pattern.

I understand that deep longing for a child, even when ambivalent or outright concerned about your spouse as a partner and parent.  I prayed for years that the longing would go away and repeated to myself what many people told me "At least you have your two boys" (BTW, that is NOT a comforting thing to say to someone who is dealing with infertility and/or the loss of a child).  I can only imagine that it would be even more difficult for you to not have any children.

Here's what my experience (going through infertility/parenting with pwBPD) has taught me -
pwBPD are unlikely to be partners in addressing infertility.  You have indicated that you are already taking on the role of researching, and managing your wife's fertility.
pwBPD are likely to both "become" their infertility and blame it all on you.  They are likely to experience tremendous guilt that they can't handle and then lash out and assign all the guilt to you.
pwBPD are unlikely to be partners in parenting.  This isn't to say that they won't love their children or that they will be "bad" parents, but there are plenty of posts on this board that illustrate that the spouse w/BPD often neglects their responsiblity and/or operates like another child that you need to "parent".


As/If you walk this journey of trying to conceive with your wife, these are things that you will probably need help coming to terms with.  I have seen plenty of posts where men in relationships with pwBPD are advised to be careful not to conceive a child with them since that would escalate conflict exponentially.  I won't tell you it's unwise to have a child with pwBPD, but I will tell you that it's very complicated.  If you are going to do so, it is a good idea to go in with eyes wide open and "tool belt" firmly secured.

Best Wishes,
BG

[AfterTheRainComesSun]

Hi 18000b,

I totally feel for you since my gf (diagnosed BPD, completed a therapy but still having outbursts, just the actions are not so agressive anymore... .) wanted to end our relationship xyz times... .we are togethre for more than 8 years and have 'fights' apr. once per month, some more severe than other. I'm also very tired and somehow I feel that the relationship has sucked me in. It really doesn't do me good! Also all the good moments can not outweight the bad ones. I thought a lot about these fights, analyzed them inside out but still I feel I kind of 'got rid' of the negativity by storing it into my subconsciousness. Of course there has also been a lot of challenging milestones and positive outcomes, such as changing the country, suceeding in getting more diplomas, getting proper jobs, the birth of a child... .all that kept us going on the positive mode. But the bitterness stays under the layers of happiness and success. I feel that I'm trapped somehow - however more and more I realize that the decision to break up is the most sane decision on a long run. Ha, it's almost like her 'broken record' of repetedly quit this relationship haunted me... .  And then I get thoughts like, Am I just a quiter? Is this really the solution? Am I just running away from the pain? YEah, though questions and I think noone could decide for us... .every story is unique, no matter how we understand and empathize... .

So, you talk about you growing in this relationship... .I have very similar opinion of myself having a chance to know myself better and grow, but then again, I start to think, wouldn't I have much better chances to grow in a more functional realtionship? And how to avoid being a sponge and absorb the disfunctionality and become disfunctional by myself? Are these relationships (with BPDs) only bringing up discfunctionality from ourselves? Coz, to be hones, no matter how I try to stay sane and think logically when she rages, I still respond emotionally and sometimes my emotions become sticky and are all sucked into the dysfunctional dance wave... .and I feel sorry for myslef, being a victim... .linging to this emotions like a hurt child... .

Sorry for my kind of negative post... .I'm just in the fight mode, the second one this month already  

[Minspain]

Hi, I just posted to Rose re therapy. I think you have to do it, every marriage deserves full effort at being saved, but my experience of therapy was simply that it failed to save anything (see my post to Rose). On a positive note I am previously divorced having been with a non BPD but difficult partner once for 14 years. It was a long time, with lots of love (from me atleast) and she had two affairs, but I don't give it a second thought now and wouldn't get back with her if she begged.

Hey, can we set up a non BPD but BPD experienced dating section on this site? at least we all understand each other 

[i8000b]

Thank you AfterTheRainComesSun, for sharing your story. I totally relate to you as I want to move out of my country... and given all that is going on, it doesn't seem to be happening.

It has been over a month now, and I could not find a proper therapist who can offer help or diagnose (in my country, there are few choices).
Today there was another episode, which reduced any hope I ever had.

I worked on myself, learned a lot of the tools from the site (e.g. validation). So, for example, my wife always have negative feelings, and always wants to talk about them to me, and if I don't listen to her, she uses many of the weapons in her arsenal to make me do that. (Today she used 3 strategies, and threw an ultimatum of ending her life to get my attention).
Even when I validated her feelings, and told her they are important to me, and that "I" am tired now and need time to rest, and suggested we talk about this tomorrow, she still goes on with her passive aggressive behavior anyway.

I'm finding myself stuck. Biggest part of me doesn't want to continue, yet I sacrificed so much to be in this relationship, I am jobless now because we moved to another city so she can have her dream job... .divorce will mean I'm on my own, as I have to move out, find a place, find a job, support myself to pay bills and eat.

I think this is what is keeping me locked into this relationship that is just... .I don't feel I'm dealing with a rational human being, able to get progress. Yesterday we managed to "discuss" things for two hours (without emotional outbursts!) and it was a miracle.
Today, 15 minute talk about money and finances flipped everything around, and the same cycle of: I'm tired of this, I can't handle it, da da da.

The only positive thing that has happened since a month, is that I'm better at setting boundaries, but I feel I need a lot of work, and did not find many resources for that.

I lost my relationship to my family, as they are toxic. It dawned to me that my mom is most likely uBPDp... (with abusive father) thus turning me into a codependent person, A-rated rescuer/fixer type.

I'd appreciate any feedback or help.

Thank you all, this forum is the only support system I have in my life

[i8000b]

I don't know how to do edit, so had to do this.

So, few hours afterwards, she came to me all apologetic and how much she misses me.
She seem to be "aware" that her behavior is not normal... .(from wanting to die so I can get rid of her, to her missing me and snuggling against me)

is this acting? I mean both... .the "nice" and "awareness"?

[Learn each day]

I don't know how to do edit, so had to do this.

So, few hours afterwards, she came to me all apologetic and how much she misses me.
She seem to be "aware" that her behavior is not normal... .(from wanting to die so I can get rid of her, to her missing me and snuggling against me)

is this acting? I mean both... .the "nice" and "awareness"?

I think they can really be sincere in what they say in the moment. Unfortunately it doesn't necessarily mean there will be any change.

Sorry for your situation.

LED