cell phones for kids

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

do any of you share the cell phone bill for the children with you BPDx? Do you have an agreement that if you share the bill both parents have access to the phone and have the right to monitor and receive phone records and pin codes?

Our L is suggesting that we share the phone bill for the kids. I have my doubts that this will actually work. I am seeing us paying money but then the phones magically never working when we are trying to reach the kids.

I would be happy to hear any reports on how you are doing it.

[soundofmusicgirl]

do any of you share the cell phone bill for the children with you BPDx? Do you have an agreement that if you share the bill both parents have access to the phone and have the right to monitor and receive phone records and pin codes?

Our L is suggesting that we share the phone bill for the kids. I have my doubts that this will actually work. I am seeing us paying money but then the phones magically never working when we are trying to reach the kids.

I would be happy to hear any reports on how you are doing it.

[takingandsending]

Thanks for raising this topic, soundofmusicgirl. My S11 is getting old enough to need a simple cell phone (no internet function). My xw is dead set against it.

Having one phone and splitting the costs of it makes a lot of sense in a normal situation, but with BPD, having pin codes and monitoring records would be quickly abused.

How old are your kids that would have a phone? Are you talking about smart phones? Are there presets for the phone that would limit what your kids can do on them (obviously not for texting)?

[soundofmusicgirl]

takingandsending... these are smart phones that the kids have (11 yrs old). They are not tech savvy (are not your typical preteens as they are developmentally a little behind). They don't know how to use a phone, let alone a smart phone. BPDxw has sent them to us with those phones and has instructed the kids that we are not to touch the phones or give us their pin codes. Which basically totally undermines my DH's ability to parent his kids. She has instructed them to carry the phones with them at all time and that they should have them with them even during the night (in case of emergency) These are expensive iPhones that she has given them. My stepsons have not reached the level of maturity yet to not let them drop or forget them at the playground. They don't even know how to charge them.
We have also seen that they get calls from scammers and that the kids (not knowing what to do) called those numbers back.
We live overseas and BPDxw has equipped the phones with an international calling plan that will expire as soon as they will return home. I am fairly confident that the phones will also quickly disappear and if we offer to pay for half those phones will constantly hear that the phones are not working or the kids don't know where they are.

[takingandsending]

Sounds like this is BPDm's deal then so that she can keep in touch with the kids. If you have no say in any of it, I would draw a firm boundary and let her pay for the phones. You aren't getting any benefit from them having them.

[DoxieLover]

Hi there!

Fortunately, we have two kids so each parent pays for one kid's cell phone.  So there's no arguing about cost.  However, my DH's ex decided my older stepdaughter needed her first phone when she turned 7.  Basically, it was a way for her mom to keep tabs on her (and us) all the time.  At the time, we mostly just didn't encourage stepdaughter to use it (Ie - "forgot to tell stepdaughter to charge it, bring it with her, etc.). 
As stepdaughter got older and got a smart phone, we insisted that she tell us the passcode.  Fortunately, biomom didn't push back on that.  So I used to periodically check texts, usage, etc on the phone after stepdaughter was in bed.  (We told her she was not allowed to have it in bed as she needed to sleep and not play on her phone all night.  The benefit of biomom giving her a phone at such a young age was that stepdaughter didn't give us too hard of a time about our rules for it at our house.). All of that said, did we have issues and concerns about biomom checking in with stepdaughter ALL the time?  Yes.  And yes, there were some challenging incidents because of it... .but the bright side is that biomom texted/called/pestered  stepdaughter so much in the first 3-4 years that stepdaughter got to a point where she would roll her eyes and say "what does she want now?" whenever her mom would call.  And stepdaughter stopped responding to mom's texts right away and all the time after awhile.  Now that stepdaughter is 14.  We just went on a 12 day vacation and stepdaughter mentioned (can't remember how it came up in conversation) that she only texted her mom twice while we were on our trip.

So long story short, I completely understand your concerns.  Hopefully, at some point, your kiddos will also get tired of being pestered by their mom all the time too.  And as far as them not being developmentally ready for phones, I would be very inclined to do what we did (Ie - don't remind them to charge them or take them to bed.). If biomom complains, I'd tell her to discuss it with the kids themselves.

Anyway, I'm sure your situation is different than ours so take my suggestions with a grain of salt if you don't think they will apply. 
Good luck to you!

[DoxieLover]

Sorry had another thought.  My DH's ex tried to get hubby to split the phone cost and bill with us when she got my older stepdaughter a phone when she turned 7.  My hubby told her that he wasn't consulted about it and didn't agree that a 7 year old needed a phone so he wouldn't split the cost with her.  She didn't like it but couldn't do much about it other than get rid of the phone which she didn't want to do as it was her lifeline to older stepdaughter.  So that settled that. My younger stepdaughter inherited a phone from a family member who upgraded theirs. So we put her on our plan and it evened out in the wash at that point.  Anyway, just thought I better add this clarification in case it helps.

[soundofmusicgirl]

so, just a short update. My stepsons have returned to their BPDmom after a wonderful summer visit with us. As expected BPDmom took their phones away the minute they got home and discontinued their service. My husband tried to call and sent text messages and when we ask the kids today wether they got them, they told us that "the trip is over and therefore mom switched the phones off". She was so keen and taught them how to take a million pictures a day on the phones 3 days before their summer visit with us. She encouraged them daily on their phone calls with her to send her a lot of pictures. Well, now of course the kids can't sent my DH any pictures because they do not have "their" phones anymore.
Of course the are the phones the judge said both parents should have access to. Yep... .so much for that.
Needless to say this will be brought up in court and a few weeks and that my husband will not pay a dime towards any phone plan here.

[Thunderstruck]

I don't remember how old your Skids are, but here is my experience... .

We got my SD a phone when she was ~9 since DH had trouble getting his nightly phone calls (uBPDbm refused to answer his calls, return his calls, wouldn't play his messages for SD, and wouldn't respond to his OFW requests for calls). uBPDbm caused a ton of trouble, violated some rules we had in place for the phone (including encouraging to use it during school hours) and claimed she was being blocked from it. Then uBPDbm went out and bought SD a phone on her own plan (because she wanted the control and to gatekeep). DH still didn't receive his nightly calls. After a few months she stopped paying on it and SD was using an ipod to access facebook messenger to talk to DH (maybe one time a week). Oh, and I was not able to call or become facebook friends with SD, forget about that! uBPDbm had me blocked for sure.

Last year when SD started in middle school (11 yo) we revisited the phone situation. We pay for it and have the ability to monitor it if we need or want to. SD is much more mature and able to comply with the rules/boundaries set up for her (including making a nightly call to BOTH parents depending on whose house she's at). We tell her that any of her parents have the right to access her phone if needed (so we're not making it an us vs mom thing). However, after uBPDbm using SD's phone to purchase some games we've had to place more restrictions on her account.

Anyway... .communication with SD has gotten easier but it really doesn't have to do with the phone, it's more like SD maturing and being more responsible and independent (uBPDbm is less and less able to restrict our access to her).

[soundofmusicgirl]

thunderstruck ... i agree. It is about how mature the children are. My stepsons just turned 11. But they are not mature enough to deal with a phone. Maybe in a year or so they are mature enough. Their BPDmom however is so desperate to have control over them that she tried to train them on the phones she sent with them 3 days before they came to us. They got frustrated when they could not get things to work in our home and since BPDmom had trained them that Dad and I are not allowed to touch their phones, it led to a lot of anxiety and frustration for them. Of course  when we told her that, her reply was that the kids know absolutely perfectly how to use the phones. But yet she claims that they are incapable of even doing little things like brushing their own teeth or showering themselves.

We have been thinking of getting them phones. But since we live overseas the cheapest way to communicate is through FaceTime, skype or whatsapp. All things the phone needs internet for. Which means we would have to help them learn boundaries for internet usage. I am also very skeptical of giving them something expensive since all the gifts we send home with them tend to "disappear" as soon as BPDmom gets her hands on it. EVERY SINGLE GIFT. So, with that track record i am not confident that if we would get them phones they would also not magically disappear or "get lost" or "not work". And there would be little we could do about it from overseas. Dealing with a BPD just sucks! Things that should be and could be so easy are turning into huge problems. Sigh... .

[david]

My ex gave our youngest a cell phone. He was 5 at the time. I thought it was not a good idea but didn't want to make an issue of it so I let it go. She had S9 painted black at the time so he wasn't allowed to have a phone according to his mom.
The first one got lost so she got him another one. I went down the shore with the boys that summer. I was making something to eat for them and when I came out of the kitchen I saw that S5 decided to fix the phone. He had it in pieces. I gave him a zip lock bag and told him to put all the pieces in the bag and give it to his mom. The third one he lost too. A few years later I found one of them hidden in my house. Of course, she blamed me for it all and I let that go too. I never touched any of them.
I believe S9 would have been able to take care of a phone back then but I didn't see the need for it so I never got him one back then.

[flourdust]

My D11 has a smartphone. It's on my family plan and I pay the bills. I won't give BPDxw access to the account, but she's able to look at messages, etc. on D11's phone when she is over there.

When BPDxw and I were still together, we agreed to get D11 (who was D9 at the time) an iPod Touch -- it has all the capacities of a smartphone while connected to wi-fi. We also bought a prepaid dumb phone to keep in the house for emergencies, as we had no land line.

[Turkish]

I'm more than a few years away from this (5 and 7), but I'm thinking no,  not until they are teens. By then it will probably be Dick Tracey watch-phones 

So far their mom has respected my boundaries,  only checking in when she feels anxiety.  I in no way believe that the lack of object constancy would be different of the kids had phones: constant texts to soothe mommy. 

The kids are with me,  at school (or summer "camps" which thus far are local,  so no different than being at school). I'm going to resist this as long as possible.

I remember her buying her youngest brother the fanciest smart phone (anD paying the bill). I questioned this and she said that his peers had them and she didn't want to have him feel left out or poor,  which was really about her feelings,  even though I could see some validity to her argument.  That she was paying rather than their parents was another story (remnants of she being proxy mother to her youngest siblings).

[Stolen]

xW insisted my daughters needed iPhones by the time they were 10.  This became just one more way that they became totally dependent on her, and she would "reward" them with every new model that came out (I am still perfectly happy with my 5S... .). 

The phones became their "private network".  Whenever I was with the kids, their phones would be buzzing like bumblebees - who's that?  Oh - its just Mom... .   I felt like I was under KGB surveillance!

Facebook, instagram, the constant texting - this became their communication medium.  Back when we all still lived together, the four of us sitting in front of the TV - the three of them texting and giggling - this was an important way for xW to "split" them off from me and perfect her alienation.

In my case - the phones were extremely destructive. Beware.

[soundofmusicgirl]

Stolen... i agree 100%. The cell phones that my stepsons had with them this summer were only for BPDxmoms private network with them. She uses the "find my phone" app to constantly check on their location. She also taught them that they need to send pictures to her of everything they see (so basically they wanted to carry their phones around all day). "Luckily" the text messages to her did not go through from the kids phones. They told us that since "we never send mom any pictures of our visit with them, they will have to share everything with mom". That of course is BS.
Whenever we tried to show them something or help them fix something on their phones they would grip it with an iron fist and would not let us touch it because she had taught them that "dad is not allowed to touch your phone". And then of course the phones disappeared as soon as my stepsons returned to their mom. They told us that the phones are now switched off because the trip is over.

We are in court next week. I think the judge will not look on that very kindly after he said that if the kids have phones, both parents need to be able to reach the children and have access to those phones.

[Stolen]

And then of course the phones disappeared as soon as my stepsons returned to their mom. They told us that the phones are now switched off because the trip is over. 

Just my experience - my daughters have never answered a call from me in over 5 years now.  Never.

The phone is so much more than just a phone.