Not Experiencing Alienation, But Mother's Anxiety Is Ever-Present

[Turkish]

I was reading this on Dr. Craig Childress's site:

In healthy parent-child relationships, the child uses the parent as a “regulatory other” for the child’s emotional and psychological experience.

In a role-reversal relationship, the parent uses the child as a “regulatory other” for the parent’s emotional and psychological experience.

https://drcraigchildressblog.com/2015/03/06/understanding-the-childs-experience/

Months after the kids' mom left in 2014, we stopped the nightly calls because I saw it as upsetting then S4. This is atypical. Phone contact wasn't written into the custody order.  Their mom took my lead.  I'm beginning to think this may have been a wrong decision but it is what it is now.  

I've told her so many times that it's ok to call once per day when they are with me,  even saying that this was typical,  and that we'd all moved beyond how things were 3 years ago.  I got tired of reminding her.  She only calls when she needs to hear from the kids like last week:

"I was feeling that something wasn't right with D5, and I wanted to call to talk to her to see if everything was all right. I know it's your time,  but can I talk to her?" I wasn't going to remind her of what I'd previously said so many times.  Of course I let her talk to D5, and also S7. The call was short.  Kids this age have short attention spans.

Tonight,  :)5 wanted to call mommy.  Other than a small tantrum in the morning,  when she didn't ask to call her mom,  we had a good day.  Went to voice mail.  I got a text,  "what's going on,  it's everything ok?" Their mom was triggered. I replied that they just wanted to wish her goodnight.  

She called 15 mins later.  :)5 had fallen asleep.  Our son was still awake.  He was happy to talk to her.  She started in,  "why did you call,  what happened,  it's everything ok?" She was on speaker phone.  A few feet away,  I told our son,  "nothing happened,  we just wanted to call you." He repeated it verbatim. At first,  I felt like I was alienating, but what I was saying was true.  S7 didn't miss a beat.  I was telling him the truth, not telling him how to feel.  Then he cut the call short, surprisingly to me,  "ok mommy,  I love you,  goodbye," and I heard "Thanks Turkish."

While I'm always cognizant of not engaging in alienation myself (as the angry and betrayed partner), I'm also aware of how much their mom can lapse into the role reversal.  She used to tell the kids,  "take care of Daddy." I replied that it wasn't their job to take care of me,  but the reverse.  She didn't get it,  even if on the surface such comments weren't meant to be harmful. I'm aware of my past with my BPD mother.  My ex is also aware of hers with her mother,  though I am always careful not to use the term "emotional incest," even though my ex vented to me plenty about such things after she left.  

I'm actually proud of our son to say that to his mom,  even if I coached him.  He knew the truth of the situation.  His natural characteristics are to soothe and comfort. I've been trying to work with him on boundaries with his little sister (The Princess) without destroying his character.  I hope to continue to do so with his mother without engaging in alienation. Her clinical anxiety and depression may come up later,  but those are subjects which aren't age appropriate at this point.  

She asked to come back the end of May. I said no.  She stated wearing her wedding ring again and told me she was going to try and make it work with her H. For over a week now,  she's stopped wearing the ring.  I haven't asked.  Without her H, she's alone,  her worst fear. She'll turn back to the kids for emotional support,  which isn't their job.  I'm taking them to the airport Monday morning as they go on vacation.  I wanted to ask "why not H?" Even if they are still living apart. I didn't ask,  and I won't. 

[takingandsending]

Hi Turkish.

It's a mine field for our kids, isn't it? I try not to be around the phone when my sons talk to their uBPDm. I guess I figure that it's her responsibility to have the relationship she is going to have with them. Even if I don't want them trying to please, placate or otherwise parent her, I can't really control any of that. All I can do is have as healthy a relationship with them as I can, and hope that it helps them in their relationship with their mom.

Lately for me, I am hearing regularly how dysregulated, throwing tantrums and fighting with each other the boys at her house after my custody time. uBPDxw alternately claims I am not feeding them, getting them enough sleep or overdoing them so that it sucks for her when they get to her house. She also claims that S11's T has told her that the kids will always "fall apart" with one parent after a divorce and choose to do so where it's safest. As when we were married, her claims and repeated statements trouble me, make me question myself and make me uncomfortable. But then, I recollect how she is fitting the facts to how she feels, and I really can know very little in the end of how much if any of her statements is valid.

I just try to validate my kids' feelings and experiences when they are with me, hold consistent boundaries and meet them where they are at without judgment. Your situation always seemed to me like a tough one to maintain boundaries with your xw. How do you think you are doing in that regard?

[soundofmusicgirl]

takingandsending... your post could have been written by me. We have the same experience with my 11 yr old ss's. I feel your pain. The screwed up thing is that everyone thinks that when the kids get dysregulated in the other parents home it is because they had a horrible time with the other parent.
My DH once had mediation and within an hour of the mediator sitting with my DHs BPDxw the mediator said: of course the kids are not happy going back the controlling environment they experience with their BPDmom.
So there are people that recognise the behaviour for what it is.

[Turkish]

I spent 3 days out of town on the mountains. We live near the ocean,  so it's a vastly different climate.  There was more smoke there due to fires,  though I noticed it before we left and my eyes started bothering me.  :)5 is more sensitive like me.  

She was a bit congested. Possibly from different allergens there.  Within half an hour of dropping them off I got a call.  I saw them go into her apartment and took off,  not seeing her.  She had also wanted to talk to me in person about some school matters and the ABA therapy for S7. That story? I saw the emails going back and forth by phone and didn't comment.  I took care of things by phone and email when I got back,  resolving the situation,  which she could have but didn't.  Good thing she has me around... .

Later that night,  I started getting the texts.  :)5 wanted mommy to take her to the doctor.  Funny, D never asked me.  Their mom also said that D5 was itchy on her privates. Her mom asked her if I helped wipe her.  :)5 said yes.  That's not true.  I haven't done that in like two years or more.  I said that she never told me she was itchy down there.  My ex replied that she never told her dad stuff like that.  She's 5, not 15. Also,  her dad was in the USA working until my ex was 12 and brought them to America,  so he was absentee.

 D still has no modesty with me and her brother,  though I'm trying to teach her. My ex replied again.  By this time I was mad.  It was a low blow, but I replied that our daughter tells me the things that matter most.  No reply. I don't know if she got it,  but I was referring to our daughter telling me that she was being molested three years ago,  rather than her mom.  

I'm a bit ashamed of saying that to her (whether or not she picked up on it), but I'm sick of the recurring accusations.

Tonight,  I got a call checking about D5. That is perfectly fine.  We were at the drug store getting OTC allergy medicine.  :)5 was coughing and mommy forgot to send it with her.  No problem.  She offered to come over to help take care of D, as if I haven't been taking care of them by myself since they were 1 and just turned 4 when she left.  Anything to come back over... .I'm not responsible for alleviating her anxiety.  She being here would trigger it in me!

Swimming in the morning should help clear her out,  and we'll go for Vietnamese chicken soup (Pho) afterwards,  which my otherwise picky kids love. 

[takingandsending]

How's D5's allergies doing?

I absolutely understand the BPDm anxiety issue. My S11 got invited to a classmates 12th birthday camp out overnight. When I asked if he wanted to go, he said "mayyybe". So I inquired about his reservation, at which point he swung to thinking Dad must want me to go so he said "yes, I want to go. I'm just not certain." I asked if he split himself into 10 parts, how many parts wanted to go? "eight". Eight out of 10 sounds like you want to go, but we will listen to those other 2, too, because what they feel is important. Then it came out - he was worried about not getting enough sleep and it maybe being too close to a school day (it's a Saturday overnight) - sleep has been an issue that his mom has been on the warpath about for the last 2 weeks. It's sad what our kids go through.