, I know how you feel, I know a lot of people on this site do. Funny how this works, after you read on here how many people go through cheating, it takes some of the sting out. Don't get me wrong, I was devastated when I opened up my husbands phone and found 2nd lines, apps that had women pictures. He was on a site where you can only call the number if your on the site. I was so shocked, because he hide this from me. I became obsessed on finding out what he was doing. I tracked his car and phone. I could not believe I had been so stupid. After I started therapy, I was able to process the relationship, not just what I "caught him at". I did not check the tracking as much ect. This site has started to bring relief, I am STARTING to realize this is just another behavior, it's not much different from the lies, or spending... .I feel like it took finding the phone stuff to clue in how toxic the relationship had become. Truth be told all the other bad behavior I tolerated, I keep thinking at least he did not cheat. I did not know that  every part of this toxic mess was eroding at me equally. I felt like cheating was the very last thing I would do to a partner. He did not, it was just another way he got his needs met. Rage, lie, cheat.  Hammer, screwdriver, rake. He saw no difference, it was just what tool he needed to get the job done. Hope you can find some peace your in the right spot

Frankee, I am so sorry about this.  I think people without BPD partners or NPD partners cannot relate, but I know your pain.

The volatile nature of the pwBPD is hard to grasp unless someone has experience it. We have no control over their behaviour.  What we do have control over, though, is accepting what we cannot change and then dealing with that.

I am glad you understand this is not anything you did.  It's about him and him alone.

The hardest thing for me was waking up to the fact that there were things my husband was not capable of.

I wish you the best.

Frankee, the awareness of the pwBPD is a start of managing our own feelings.

Several years ago, when I began to suspect my H uBPD/uNPD, he had the ability to utterly reduce me to tears with his accusations, defenses, projection and rages.  I would be crushed and cry for hours.  Sometimes I could not work the next day.  I now take a more detached approach which is disengagement.  I step back from the feeling of being a wife.

It is still painful, but less so for me.

I really appreciate the insight.  It makes a lot of sense thinking about what you said and it actually gives me a sense of relief.  Part of the nagging me says that he's just looking for attention and as you said the encounter with his persona.  I can read him.  His job, people at his job, people that stop by to say hi or hang out, even his brother and wife from out of town, new people he meets... I observe him quietly.  It's kind of like catching a glimpse at some rare creature out in the wild.  They amaze you at their beauty, how hard they are to find, and don't see very often.  .  Now as you say, short end of the stick.  He has spent so many years playing that part that is the false persona, that he can turn it on with a flip of the switch if absolutely necessary. 

It's a catch-22 I feel.  I get it, the whole put on the false self and wearing a mask to hide his true self.  Then the flip side of it that, he has gotten so comfortable and intimate with me... that it's like, all the masks, the false persona's, the "faking" it... goes right out the window.  As messed up as it sounds, part of me loves the fact that he trusts me enough to let down his guard, show me his dark side, and secretly begging me not to leave.  Don't get me wrong, he's not this mean person all the time.  He does try to be nicer to me, less short tempered, pay me compliments, be aware of when I'm hurt.  It's just... the kind of rage I have seen from him, heard the kind of cruel horrible things, when he gets in a certain way, the man standing before me is a stranger.  It's almost as if the mild form of himself has checked out and replaced with his other side that has a very disturbing look in his eye.

I'm also glad you pointed something out.  Missing all the sweetness in the beginning and wanting it back is like shoving him the mask and saying put it back on.  I really didn't think of it from that angle.  He was at a stage where he was trying to hide his true self.  Honestly, I kind of saw his other self come out when we use to drink.  He would get wild when he drank.  I mean, I do too, but there were times where I was really worried he was going to do something really dangerous, seriously hurt himself or end up in jail.

It's be nagging me.  I've been tempted sneak his phone when he's asleep to check, trying to hack into his email to monitor his activity, spy on him... I'm not going to though.  I told a friend a few days ago that I think finding those messages flipped a switch in me.  I'm hoping it as said that it's stopped at flirting online.  Even though the messages basically asked them for a hook up.  It's hurts, I would think I would be driving myself crazy with trying to figure out what he's up to, that's not how I feel though.  Even starting to feel like myself that's more playful, relaxed, affectionate.  It's almost like finding those messages had the opposite affect.  I still have insidious temptations to check his phone or wondering what he's doing, but I can dismiss them pretty easy.  It's like a weight has been lifted. 

I know it's not about me.  He's torn.  Through the foster homes, abandonment, physical/emotional/sexual abuse by people that were suppose to be caregivers, electroshock therapy, mental hospitals, prison... .the list seems like something out of a heart wrenching fictional story.  He's having serious identity issues.  That might be one of the reasons that what's going on hasn't affected me as devastating as I thought would. 

He's a man who has suffered greatly.  I know his stories, I've seen the scars, I've felt his pain as he talked about how he remembered being a happy child before the system got a hold of him, his dad also leaving him by going to prison, I'm the one that held him when he would have break downs and cry so hard about how broken he was, I'm the one that has seen a side to him that would scare even my father, I picked him up when he would try to harm himself, I was there stopping him when he tried to kill himself, I was there to help him through his drug relapse and would stay up for days, I caught him when he fell back down, I was there when his entire MC club left him because of drugs and he gave it up.

As much as it hurts, it's not like we haven't slept with other women.  Our first time together was even with another woman.  I guess maybe that's another reason it doesn't sting as much.  I've seen first hand that he hasn't gotten emotionally attached, it's always about the thrill and the adventure.  It seems like what it's boiled down to is that we have been through so much.  Looking back at a time where he really did have a collapse in self identity... that was probably the scariest time of our relationship.  There were times where he was so checked out of reality, he would lock down the house... he knew he wasn't in his right mind and was terrified they would come take him away.  As much as it doesn't seem by my posts, he actually has gotten better.  It's a long and hard road, but we've already overcome so much, I'm going to hang in for the long ride.

2 strong- It seems that your relationship is somewhat "open" then.

I think that when two people are in a monogamous relationship- the boundary is clear. No other people for either one of them. People can choose to have a different type of relationship, but from what i have observed from reading and hearing other stories, it still involves boundaries, spoken or unspoken about them. For instance, there may still be one main couple, with the mutual understanding about how to deal with another partner in the relationship. The difference seems to be that instead of adopting the traditional boundaries that go with monogamy- the couple has their own boundaries.

I think people have the right to choose their relationship boundaries, but monogamy has them built in- and non-monogamy requires two people communicating together to establish their own, as well as be able to manage the feelings that can go along with it such as jealousy. Pw BPD have difficulty with these skills- managing boundaries, communication, and their uncomfortable feelings.

Maybe it would help to assess your own feelings. What are you OK with, and what are you not in a long term relationship. What may have been OK for you in the beginning of your relationship may not feel OK to you now.

I think you are correct about the difficulty with self soothing. When people have this difficulty, they can choose emotionally and or physically unhealthy ways to deal with that. High intensity situations can be a form of relief. I think what you have done is to find a way to work these high intensity activities into your sex life together. It isn't my cup of tea, but that doesn't matter. This is between you and him and if it works for two consenting adults- then this looks like a solution.

One thing to look out for is where you are with this. If you are doing this for mutual enjoyment and you like it too- then you won't feel resentful. If you feel it is all on you to plan and keep high intensity situations or you are doing it to control his looking around, you may start to feel resentful.

It may help to discuss your boundaries. If it is OK to bring someone else into the relationship for the two of you, but not for him, then this is something to discuss. However boundaries are for us- not a way to control someone else. He has to choose to control what he does- if he chooses that. If he thinks it is OK to look, flirt, but not do more- then that is his boundary.

Having a baby has changed a lot.  I can't say for sure how things work in the long run.  I do know that I have been feeling better last few days.  Not nearly as many "blue" feelings.  Also the last couple of bills that were due went smooth and he didn't get any calls saying there was a problem. 

It's hard to know truth from spouting out nonsense at times.  He's left his phone out unsupervised where it's in plain sight, so he's not even trying to hide it like he was.  Sometimes I wonder if he says things as a way of trying to get my attention.  As for the resentment part, I actually feel less resentment towards him last few days that I had previously.  Thinking on it, it's actually a feeling of mutual enjoyment.  I initialed thought it was to redirect his wandering eye, but I found that it was more fun than anything.  It was an outlet though.  It helped me release stress, pent up emotions, and produced oxytocin (as the doctors say).

Our relationship is far from perfect.  As for things that were said, I still haven't decided if some or any of it was true or he's just living in a fantasy world.  I know his reality is skewed at times.  It also had me thinking though.  Part of me still thinks about the more taboo side of our relationship.  I remember the anticipation of getting all "dolled" up, wearing nice clothes, dressing in a killer sexy outfit, and experiencing the heightened senses of the nightlife of the exclusive clubs, the "beautiful" people who enjoy the same type of encounters we do.  Before any of that though, my kids well being come first.

If any one has kids, maybe they understand the feeling of split sides.  I know I don't have any disorder, but there's the side that isn't the mom or "normal" person at work... it's the part of me that still wants to ride the motorcycles, go back to the tough Ol' lady that was carefree and a bit wild, go out after dark and see what's hiding in the shadows, be able to get rowdy behind closed doors, meet new people that aren't all about PTA, carpooling, grocery shopping, kids schedules, the side that my kids or parents or the school or work don't see.  Then the family part that is a good mom, does all the responsibilities of an attentive parent, wife, employee, spends time with the kids.  Just because I'm a mom, doesn't mean the part of me separate from being a mom has died. 

My personal feeling on certain things is that, I don't mind him watching adult movies, spending "alone" time in the shower, even noticing an attractive woman in public.  I didn't even mind sharing him with other women in the past.  It always went back to, he never cheated, he was always honest when it came to other women that talked to him, he always let me be the initiator when it came to bringing other women into the picture, I never felt like he was trying to cut me out.  It doesn't excuse the messages or pictures I saw.  It seems like he's back to how he was before the last big blowout... Don't get me wrong, I know with these situations it may only be a temporary fix.  That's why I'm here.  I'm just not going to let my waiting for another blow out to ruin the little bit of peace I have right now.

Children change everything.  Let me ask though, why can't a "mature" parent spend time, resources, love, care, give the child whatever they can without spoiling them... but still be separate from that?  Don't get me wrong, people that can't do both and end up neglecting the children shouldn't be allowed to have kids.  We had a really down time when I was pregnant.  Intimacy was non existent, I didn't feel attractive at all, sick, nauseous, huge.  But I loved the connection and the bond that grew with my baby.  Even after he was born, the recovery, trying to feel back to some sort of normal.  We had a dry spell.  My kids though, if I had to choose between my SO or my kids, it would be my kids hand down.  I can not imagine being able to move forward in life if they weren't in my life.

My SO was also initially upset about the shift in attention.  He had a hard time that the baby was getting all the attention.  He still wants attention now, but he sees how much I do.  He still asks for little things which I have no problem providing.  I still do the "co-dependency" traits as mentioned.  I understand that are deep seeded emotional issues and scars that I can't fix.  I use to get accused of always sleeping and such.  I have made some adjustments that honestly didn't really affect my daily routine.  I don't go out of my way to run out to get him things or drop everything to do something he asks right then and there.  If I'm out though at the store, I will pick up things he likes.   Even the looking nice part, I do it for myself majority of the time.  It puts a little spring in my step when I do my make up just right or my hair cooperates.  Stuff like that, my SO doesn't really notice. 

I try to not do the JADE thing also.  It's gotten to the point where it's almost automatic to not do it... most of the time.  It's too much trying to deal with the anger or rant that comes from him if he feels I'm doing it.  I just avoid it and try to keep things to the point, which isn't always easy for me.

Even in "normal" relationships, I read that couples should make time for each other, do a date night, schedule alone time, give thanks, praise, acknowledge the things they do for you.  I may rant and get mad about things my SO does or says.  What I realize is that I'm not paying enough attention to the things he does get right or the little things he does for me or says to me.  He still has outburst and yells.  Even the last few days he hasn't really had a full blown explosion.  Sure he's yelled a couple times, but the turn around time where he sees the affect it's having on the kids and his well being has gotten better. 

I love my kids and my SO very much.  It's not always easy and sometimes I have to remind myself that I need more self love and compassion.  I can't hold anything together if I'm not happy.  Things I say may seem selfish or immature.  If I can provide, take care of, spend time, and make sure that my kids and family come first and still have time to do the things I enjoy... no matter how odd or strange they may seem, then I think I'm doing okay.

I agree with Cat. It is possible to go too far in either direction. My BPD mother was overwhelmed by her own emotions. She didn't take care of her children in the emotional sense. I became another emotional caretaker to her by the time I was an adolescent. I wanted something different for my children but not to go so far as have them be enmeshed. It's a balance though.

When kids are small, they do need more in terms of care- they need attention at all ages. However, a hungry or wet diaper  infant has to be attended to and can interrupt parental time together. I think parents need some emotional maturity to navigate this change in their partner's availability.

I want my kids to make better choices than me, not make the same mistakes I did, be more responsible in certain aspects.  I want them to have a better, easier life than me.

I think being a parent is an incredibly tough job. You want to protect them, but not to wrap them up in cotton so they don't experience any bumps or falls. Letting them make their own mistakes while you stand by has got to be tough, but such a necessary part of growing up and learning.

A friend who has been overly helpful in her son's life is now dealing with the consequences of that. At age 20, he has no ambition, no desire for any kind of future, except he thinks he can be a professional video game player. He dropped out of college after his mother got him involved in a special arts program for acting/directing. Because her sister has connections in Hollywood, he had some small parts in movies and was somewhat interested in acting.

But due to the lack of motivation and initiative, he seemed to think that things would just land on his doorstep without any effort on his part.

I don't know if it's possible to get him to see that he has to take steps to make things happen in his life and currently his mother is agonizing about how she can get that message through to him. She did nag him to get a job and I think that might help motivate him to make some choices for himself. Otherwise he was happy staying home and playing video games all day long.

I'm glad I didn't choose to have children. I figured that my upbringing with a BPD mom would have either caused me to parent the same way she did, or do a 180 turn and do the opposite. Either way would have been disastrous, I thought. I think parenting is hard enough when you've had good parental role models!

Not to throw labels around but sometimes opposites are different sides of the same dysfunctional coin. Dysfunction also doesn't necessarily have to include BPD. I've been attending ACA meetings and learned that several issues can create a similar pattern in families and between couples- not necessarily around alcohol, but a larger "addiction " model. Addiction used in the larger sense would include using something- or people/relationships - to escape uncomfortable feelings rather than feel them and process them.

If we have children, our task as parents is to help them acquire the skills to manage their own feelings and it is a learning process. Toddlers don't know how to do this- and they have temper tantrums. It is normal for a toddler but not for an adult. If a toddler wants a cookie and we say no, the toddler will pitch a fit. If we give him the cookie, we stop the tantrum but we take away the opportunity to learn to deal with his emotions. So why is it we know to do this with a toddler but are afraid to do this with our adult partners?

One way children learn to self soothe is through self talking. Parents can help older children do this when children express their feelings to them. They will inevitably encounter a bully at school, a dispute with a friend, and so on. We encourage them to talk to us about it- and without invalidating or solving the problem for them- we help them to process and then suggest what they can do. Eventually they learn to do this on their own, and seek advice from others if they need to.

If I look at both my FOO and my H's- the steps to gaining these skills were missing but in different ways. We WOE to manage my mother's rages. My H's family seems like yours. Nobody talked and they acted as if there were no issues in the family, but all families have disagreements - they just didn't talk about them. Kids didn't dare bring up feelings or incidences they were concerned about. This is invalidating too- acting like feelings don't exist , and reacting to them with angry rages are both invalidating.

This is not to blame our parents but to self examine our own self soothing skills and how we deal with feelings. Feelings exist for a reason- often to tell us about ourselves. If we feel angry or resentful- it is a sign to self examine. If we feel positive feelings it also informs us. Feeling our feelings doesn't mean becoming impulsive or overly emotional but ignoring/denying them is the other extreme.

Parents who respond to their child's distress by fixing and solving for them take this emotional growth away, but to not acknowledge the child's feelings feels invalidating.

I think my H and I matched emotionally in the sense that neither of us had role models for dealing with feelings. Considering this- not in the blame sense- but in the what can I do to gain better skills for managing feelings sense- is helpful. I can't work on his part, but by being less reactive emotionally- it decreased the adding emotional fuel to conflicts.