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Poll
Question: Did You Subscribe to the Belief that love can prevail?
Very much so - 19 (32.8%)
For the most part - 15 (25.9%)
Not sure - 4 (6.9%)
Possibly, but not likely - 10 (17.2%)
No, not at all - 10 (17.2%)
Total Voters: 57

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Author Topic: POLL Belief 4: Love can prevail  (Read 8252 times)
Lucky Jim
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« on: September 20, 2017, 10:19:00 AM »

Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with BPD

This article has helped many start the healing process and accept our partners dysfunction more than any other article on the site. I often read on the Crises board, how do we move past this?. Well, let's all take a look at the false thinking that holds us back and share our own thoughts and experiences in this regard.
 
                Belief that love can prevail
"Once these relationships seriously rupture, they are harder to repair than most – many wounds that existed before the relationship have been opened. Of course you have a lot invested in this relationship and your partner has been an integral part of your dreams and hopes - but there are greater forces at play now.

For you, significant emotional wounds have been inflicted upon an already wounded soul. To revitalize your end of the relationship, you would need to recover from your wounds and emerge as an informed and loving caretaker – it’s not a simple journey. You need compassion and validation to heal - something your partner most likely won’t understand – and you can’t provide for yourself right now

For your partner, there are longstanding and painful fears, trust issues, and resentments that have been triggered. Your partner is coping by blaming much of it on you. For your partner to revitalize their end of the relationship, they would need to understand and face their wounds and emerge very self-aware and mindful. This is likely an even greater challenge than you face."

I clung to the belief that our love would enable us to reach a plateau of relative emotional stability. For example, we moved out of state in an effort to find our own path apart from our families, which were each dysfunctional and overbearing in different ways. We went to marital counseling repeatedly, in an attempt to deal with our persistent conflicts. Unfortunately, the pattern was always the same: after several visits with a therapist, my Ex would find a reason to drop out. Nevertheless, I thought that love would prevail and that the tide would turn for the better, but things only got worse until we finally decided to separate.

Did you believe that love would prevail, too?
 

More information:

Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder (full article)
1) Belief that this person holds the key to your happiness
2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel
3) Belief that the relationship problems are caused by you or some circumstance
4) Belief that love can prevail
5) Belief that things will return to "the way they used to be"
6) Clinging to the words that were said
7) Belief that if you say it louder you will be heard
8) Belief that absence makes the heart grow fonder
9) Belief that you need to stay to help them.
10) Belief that they have seen the light
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« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2017, 12:52:28 PM »

For me, by the time I realized the how bad things had gotten in our marriage, any love or affection I had previously felt for him was completely gone. Even looking back to when we first had problems, I don't remember ever thinking or feeling that love would prevail. The notion that "love would prevail" seems like magical thinking to me. I felt more resigned than anything, especially after the first big red flag right after we married. I was emotionally shut down most of my life which is probably a good part of this.
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« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2017, 01:00:02 PM »

Ooo yes of course I did   Smiling (click to insert in post)

I think for me it coincided with feeling : this *cannot* be the real him he's showing me ! Where is he underneath this layer of cruel nastiness ?  This can't be true !

Of course it was true. I think I felt like that because subconsciously I was trying to have the impaired relationship with my parents 'repaired' through my relationship with him. If only this would work out, then it all would be ok. Of course now I see it doesn't work like that, you cannot change people, and generally the way people behave really reflects the way the are.
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« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2017, 01:19:49 PM »

Excerpt
The notion that "love would prevail" seems like magical thinking to me.

I kept trying the same thing over and over expecting that it will eventually sort itself out with love prevailing as my motivator. Einstein said that the definition of crazy is doing the same thing expecting different results. It was crazy making behaviour.

I’ve said this often on the board that our love is not above the disorder. I was thinking that if I believed this I that would think of myself as God or Superman if I think that I can magically cure BPD. I’m just a person, no more no less, it was really magical thinking if I look back on those times.
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« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2017, 03:23:56 PM »

During the bulk of the relationship I really thought that our love was so strong that nothing could hold us back.  We were unstoppable, a team and no matter what we went through together we would come out sparkling.  The bond that we had felt so real, so unbreakable that nothing could surely separate us.  We presented a united force when it came to the rest of the world, both of us fighting to get him the treatment he so badly wanted in order to be better, healthier and more able to be the man he wanted to be - the man I saw inside of him and believed he was capable of fully becoming with the right help.  It was like our joint mission.  Surely we must succeed.  I didn't see how we could fail.  The motivation was there, the commitment, our passion for one another. 

He told me that if he could cut the BPD out of himself, he would do in a heartbeat because all he wanted was me.  I felt the same way about him.  Anything that life threw at us we could get through together.  I remember saying "If we can get through this, we can get through anything" and "People who make it are those who go through hardship and come out stronger together".  This was real and was forever.  We would be the ones who made it through this stuff.  I hadn't just leaped - I'd thrown myself over that edge without hesitation.  I believed in him and more than that I believed in US.

When the violence began, my world came shattering down and the dream turned into a nightmare.  Just once though, I had wanted to believe that something I'd previously seen as unattainable was possible, and I had believed.  Never before had I actually seen a future with someone.  In some ways I'm grateful for the time that I spent in that place.  It showed me that I am capable of opening myself up to the possibility of something real and lasting.  I just did so with the wrong guy.  I chalk it up to a practise run for the real deal if it comes in time and more than that, a very valuable learning experience.

Love and light x
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« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2017, 04:01:12 PM »

Yes I did... .but then several months after the relationship ended I realized that nothing - and I mean nothing - can conquer the devaluation stage, the process of being painted black.

I have now learned a lesson... .love definitely does not conquer all.  Perhaps that was a lesson that was long overdue for love only conquers all in the movies... .it's an unrealistic way of thinking.  My love for her was unconditional and I'm sure there was some part of her that loved me in a way only she can understand... .but that made absolutely no difference in the end.
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« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2017, 04:06:59 PM »

Excerpt
I have now learned a lesson... .love definitely does not conquer all.  Perhaps that was a lesson that was long overdue for love only conquers all in the movies... .it's an unrealistic way of thinking. 

Perhaps love can conquer all, just not in the way we perceive this to mean.  If we can turn that love towards ourselves we really can overcome some huge obstacles in life.  Maybe this is where we need to focus more and then 'real' love will align itself with us from others.  What we focus on, becomes.

Love and light x
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« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2017, 04:28:51 PM »

Excerpt
Perhaps love can conquer all, just not in the way we perceive this to mean.  If we can turn that love towards ourselves we really can overcome some huge obstacles in life.  Maybe this is where we need to focus more and then 'real' love will align itself with us from others.  What we focus on, becomes.

I agree with that perspective, HQ.  One thing that I found confusing in my marriage to a pwBPD was how someone I loved could be so abusive and hurtful towards me.  Of course, I allowed it to happen in part because I had poor boundaries due to a lack of self-love and self-acceptance.  Now that I've turned that love towards myself, it has made a huge difference, as you describe.  Indeed, it's the cornerstone of my recovery.

LuckyJim
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« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2017, 08:03:50 PM »

This is a problem to get past, I was always led to believe, from TV, Movies music etc. that the true bond of love can overcome anything (besides abuse). This particular one was a big factor in why i think that even tho i further adapted who I was to fit what she said I lacked since the last break-up, I didn't fully feel invested or convinced the marriage was repaired. When we would reconcile, it was never a big passionate return, I would basically be told I deserved to be left and I needed to fix me for this too work, never an acknowledgement that she put me through hell and back before returning.

There will never be an acknowledgement that she had any faults, I have never heard a story of an injustice or bad situation that she contributed too... .I reflect on how shes held a grudge against family members for losing her 16th birthday party after pushing her 3 year old cousin... .the narrative was "Well his mom shoulda kept him away from me and they took my party away"... .zero recognition that she was out of place or contributed to the punishment she received.

I believed, and in some ways believe love conquers all, but I learned she doesn't love the same, Ive told her she didnt love me the same. It cannot conquer all when it is conditional.
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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2017, 05:28:35 AM »

I chose Somewhat but I think the term "it depends" would have been my best answer. BPD relationships are so complicated with different variables in every situation.
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« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2017, 09:41:13 AM »

Excerpt
There will never be an acknowledgement that she had any faults, I have never heard a story of an injustice or bad situation that she contributed too

Hey Ironman, Due to their black and white thinking in which something is either all good or all bad, it is rare for a pwBPD to acknowledge their faults because it would mean painting themselves black, which is unlikely to happen.

Excerpt
I believed, and in some ways believe love conquers all, but I learned she doesn't love the same, Ive told her she didnt love me the same. It cannot conquer all when it is conditional.

I agree; those w/BPD don't do "love" in the same way, which undermines the ability of love to conquer all.

LJ

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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2017, 12:06:08 PM »

This is a problem to get past, I was always led to believe, from TV, Movies music etc. that the true bond of love can overcome anything (besides abuse).

movies, music and TV shaped my view of relationships and love more than i like to admit, too.

i voted "definitely". this belief played a role in so many ways. i couldnt accept the state of our relationship, but i believed we were meant to be, and that ultimately, eventually, love would prevail.
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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2017, 07:48:21 PM »

I absolutely subscribed (PAST TENSE) quite completely.  I think that the "drama" of our relationship was underscored by the "taboo" nature of our age difference (I'm 28 years older) and also by the fact that he freely admitted to having been diagnosed with a serious mental illness (which was ultimately diagnosed and re-classified by several other psychiatrists as BPD/NPD).  I see now that there was more than a touch of the Savior Complex in my whole "love can heal him" attitude, which I persisted in maintaining for quite some time.  The "you and me against the world" ideology is quite intoxicating, especially to someone like myself who was at the time insecure and starving for any scrap of attention after having been in a completely loveless marriage for a very long time.  The 9 mostly incredibly difficult years with him certainly demolished my notions of love conquering all, but honestly going forward I'm glad I no longer have delusional romantic ideas about relationships and can focus my attention on (hopefully) meeting a healthy partner and forging a strong and equal bond.
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« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2017, 10:38:06 AM »

My relationship was pretty short lived, and I had a lot of confusion and doubt as to her feelings about me. She wrote me a letter saying how she loved me, but why would she push my hand away when I tried to hold hers? Why would she lose her temper at me when I was seeking her support.
When she left me though, even though I knew she wouldn't come back, I prayed she would, because I did feel I loved her and we had a special bond. I guess I also thought if I could be loving enough she would stay with me, but she just saw me as weak and perhaps pathetic.
I guess you could say my ideas about love have become more practical. Self-respect and in turn respect of each other seems more important. I want a life partner. If I can really love my own self, maybe that could help me find a good fit. Love is plenty, but not in every situation.
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« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2017, 10:54:38 AM »

Excerpt
Self-respect and in turn respect of each other seems more important. I want a life partner. If I can really love my own self, maybe that could help me find a good fit. Love is plenty, but not in every situation.

Agree, vanx.  For me, it all starts with self-love, which is something that I lacked during my marriage to a pwBPD.  I lost my self-respect for a while there as the object of my Ex's abuse.  No more.  I care too much about myself these days to allow myself to be in an abusive r/s again.  Now I doubt that love can prevail and flourish in a BPD r/s.

LuckyJim
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« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2017, 03:38:54 AM »

During the bulk of the relationship I really thought that our love was so strong that nothing could hold us back.  We were unstoppable, a team and no matter what we went through together we would come out sparkling.  The bond that we had felt so real, so unbreakable that nothing could surely separate us.  We presented a united force when it came to the rest of the world, both of us fighting to get him the treatment he so badly wanted in order to be better, healthier and more able to be the man he wanted to be - the man I saw inside of him and believed he was capable of fully becoming with the right help.  It was like our joint mission.  Surely we must succeed.  I didn't see how we could fail.  The motivation was there, the commitment, our passion for one another.  

He told me that if he could cut the BPD out of himself, he would do in a heartbeat because all he wanted was me.  I felt the same way about him.  Anything that life threw at us we could get through together.  I remember saying "If we can get through this, we can get through anything" and "People who make it are those who go through hardship and come out stronger together".  This was real and was forever.  We would be the ones who made it through this stuff.  I hadn't just leaped - I'd thrown myself over that edge without hesitation.  I believed in him and more than that I believed in US.

When the violence began, my world came shattering down and the dream turned into a nightmare.  Just once though, I had wanted to believe that something I'd previously seen as unattainable was possible, and I had believed.  Never before had I actually seen a future with someone.  In some ways I'm grateful for the time that I spent in that place.  It showed me that I am capable of opening myself up to the possibility of something real and lasting.  I just did so with the wrong guy.  I chalk it up to a practise run for the real deal if it comes in time and more than that, a very valuable learning experience.

Love and light x
Hi hq
Whatever you have posted I can feel it really from bottom of my heart... is it like my whole experience... what I wanted to write n what I am thinking is what you said... only my mind is not accepting he is wrong guy... he is doing wrong... he is moving so easily n now happy n I am crying n trying at least stable day.a try not contact with him
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« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2017, 08:54:32 AM »

Hi vent,

Letting go of these beliefs is a process.  As you can see, many of us get stuck by these so it's not an overnight thing, however having awareness of the reality of the situation does help a great deal.  I hope that seeing some similarities can give you the hope and inspiration to care for yourself enough to want to move forwards.  I'd really encourage anyone still struggling with these beliefs to read the FULL ARTICLE and begin to take a look at the lessons to the right of the board to check in with where they are in the detaching process.  This takes time and we're here to help on the journey.

Love and light x
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« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2017, 05:02:44 PM »

I did, but now I don't. For those of us dealing with long-term mental health issues, you have to let go of the hope that your love will change things. That was a hard lesson for me. I still love my husband, but my love didn't fix things.

After mine's suicide attempt after we separated in February, he seemed humble and willing to work on the problems. I was hopeful that this time was different. Ironically I later found out that our two young adults had far less hope than I did and decided in the first month that he wasn't sincere. Medication stopped after a week, and counselling some weeks after that.

In time I was accused of not being committed to him because I wasn't as focused on the relationship because of my other responsibilities (he's retired). And God forbid that I was ever tired or needed a break when he wanted my attention. He became extremely controlling and started scapegoating. His accusations centered on me not meeting his needs. At that point I realized that love wasn't going to prevail. I was giving all that I could reasonably be expected to give, and it wasn't near enough. My decision to allow him back didn't change anything, and actually made it worse.

He left again in August and is living in another state. My counsellor has helped me see that this was a long time coming and that I actually perpetuated it by allowing him to treat me so poorly with the hope that I could turn it around. Mentally, I made excuses for him that I should have never made. Now I know!
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« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2017, 05:41:21 PM »

Excerpt
At that point I realized that love wasn't going to prevail. I was giving all that I could reasonably be expected to give, and it wasn't near enough.

Well said, MeandThee.  Instead of conquering all, love slowly dies out in a BPD r/s, in my experience.  The constant drama, turmoil and abuse eventually erode feelings of love.

Excerpt
I actually perpetuated it by allowing him to treat me so poorly with the hope that I could turn it around. Mentally, I made excuses for him that I should have never made. Now I know!

Haven't most of us Nons done that, MeandThee?  I suspect so.  I allowed myself to be treated poorly based on an unrealistic hope that things could improve.  I covered up with family and friends for my Ex's abusive and unkind behavior.

LuckyJim
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« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2017, 06:54:19 PM »

All these responses on this thread have made me all emotional.  I just discovered this place a few days ago and feel so lucky to have found a place with people who have similar struggles. 

My answer was possibly, but not likely. 

The first months of my marriage to my pwBPD were so very intense and encouraging.  But, if I'm truly honest with myself I was scared of how fast and intense it all was but unwilling to act on my intuition.  I allowed her to guide us.  I'm not saying I wasn't involved in choosing to get married, but I was still hurting from a previous marriage and rushing into this was like a red flag holding a red flag.  But, her love was so intense!  She really gets me!

What I'm saying is I don't think love is that special or rare.  It can be found with almost anyone or anything if you love yourself. 

That is where my journey begins.  My self esteem is abysmal.  I actually believed that I could outlast her abuse and she would eventually be in remission.  She may go into remission but, I'm not helping by enabling her behavior.  Only she can change her BPD behaviors.  I'm done trying, I have so much work to do on myself.

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« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2017, 11:06:11 AM »

Hey religispill, Welcome!  Glad you can relate to this thread.  Agree, the starting point is learning to love and accept oneself, just the way one is.  I thought that I could weather the abuse, too, and calm the waters, but it didn't play out that way.  Know that you are in good company here and feel free to ask any particular questions.

LuckyJim
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« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2017, 12:47:51 AM »

This may be the most uninspiring thread yet. But I applaud you all for having the strength to find yourselves and move on from your failed relationships. 

Unfortunately for me, i am not there yet. I believe I can whether this storm and quite possibly stay in calmer seas. I believe that there is still a way to salvage the relationship. Even 10 minutes ago my uBPDw informed me that I was supposed to respect her wishes, move out, and that there was no way she was going to change her mind.  But I've danced to this tune before.

And eventually i leave, and then somewhere down the road I turn from black to white. I believe it completely validates my opinion that love can prevail. But I believe you have to be patient enough to wait It out.
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« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2017, 09:17:39 AM »

I chose "not sure". Well, I think healthy love can prevail. I think we have to make a distinction between loving a person who keeps hurting us, and loving someone we actually have a fulfilling relationship with.
My (undiagnosed, but I strongly suspect) BPD-ex said once that love can't prevail and that he had issues no love would conquer, that he'd had no relationship that worked out in the past. I should have listened him. But back then I still believed what we had was healthy and something we could build on. I was wrong, and instead what we had turned into an escalating, dysfunctional relationship. For a long while I felt as powerless as him in ending it. Because I loved him. Because I couldn't let go. But not because love prevails. Because I thought 'he would see the light', because I was clinging to the words that were said, the good times. All the while walking over my own boundaries, valuing the hope of our relationship turning into something good over my own emotional well-being. Buying into all the misconceptions of a BPD relationship.
So love under healthy promises I think can prevail. If anything prevails in a dysfunctional relationship it's more likely trauma bonding and feelings fuelled by the wrong things and futile hope. That's how it was for me at least.
I'm still coping and trying to analyse it all though and I wish I had more answers.
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« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2018, 03:16:00 AM »

I think we have to make a distinction between loving a person who keeps hurting us, and loving someone we actually have a fulfilling relationship with... .

For a long while I felt as powerless as him in ending it. Because I loved him. Because I couldn't let go. But not because love prevails. Because I thought 'he would see the light', because I was clinging to the words that were said, the good times. All the while walking over my own boundaries, valuing the hope of our relationship turning into something good over my own emotional well-being... .

If anything prevails in a dysfunctional relationship it's more likely trauma bonding and feelings fuelled by the wrong things and futile hope. That's how it was for me at least.

moscas makes some really thoughtful observations here.  Looking back I am more able to see how my version of love prevailing meant my demise, which is too much a sacrifice to have to make.  Some harsh realisations following our breakup were very painful and finally caused me to take stock and really assess what I'd been fighting to hold onto. 

For myself, learning about trauma bonding made a great deal of sense when it came to explaining the intense drive to stay and accept such behaviour towards me that would have an emotionally healthy individual running for the hills. 

I really thought that love could prevail yet I later realised upon reflection that this was mostly fuelled by my determination not to be beaten and my codependent traits more than my belief in what we had. 

Did you also believe that love would prevail?

Love and light x
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Jeffree
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« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2018, 09:35:31 AM »

I can't say that mine was a conscious belief that I will keep loving her and we will prevail. It was more like I did my loving and supportive stuff thinking that once I made it clear enough to her that I truly did love her as much as humanly possible that she'd stop picking apart me and everything I was about and we could get back on the right loving path.

The mistake I keep making is assuming that people naturally want love and when treated with love will suck it up like a sponge. That seems to be the case at first, but once they find a way/reason to turn off that switch it stays off and no amount of love will prevail over that.

J
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2018, 10:19:12 AM »

Excerpt
The mistake I keep making is assuming that people naturally want love and when treated with love will suck it up like a sponge. That seems to be the case at first, but once they find a way/reason to turn off that switch it stays off and no amount of love will prevail over that.

Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post) Jeffree: I think you're right that those w/BPD have a hard time receiving love, presumably because they view themselves as unloveable.  Yet that doesn't stop us Nons from trying, which often proves to be an exercise in frustration!

LuckyJim
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lighthouse9
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« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2018, 01:12:37 PM »

I'm learning that I severely underestimated the devalue and discard. I should have seen this, maybe, because her exes mostly seemed to not exist to her as people anymore. It was like her memory was almost completely erased. Now that I'm the one being erased, it's pretty clear that we had really different ideas of "love."

I do believe love can prevail, in a healthy relationship. But, that love needs precedent somewhere else, like from a parent. I don't think she ever felt a healthy love from her parents, never saw a healthy love between them, and therefore there was no real model for us to have one. When things got hard she didn't want to lean in, she wanted to run. And she did.

Also, love can't prevail when someone has never been held accountable for their actions and never had to take responsibility for injuring the love. Love does hurt and love does make mistakes, but it can prevail when people take responsibility. Without that, there is no trust, and with no trust there is no love.

I agree with the original post, that there are some really deep things going on here and that the injuries are much deeper than we might ever have imagined. I still don't know what I triggered in her, but it must have been something pretty awful.
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Mutt
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« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2018, 11:40:10 AM »

Excerpt
We went to marital counseling repeatedly, in an attempt to deal with our persistent conflicts. Unfortunately, the pattern was always the same: after several visits with a therapist, my Ex would find a reason to drop out. Nevertheless, I thought that love would prevail and that the tide would turn for the better, but things only got worse until we finally decided to separate.

Neural pathways are like roadways in your brain the more that they are travelled over the more packed down the roadway is, in the context of a r/s with my exuBPDw we had our own life patterns that we were trained to follow. I believed that everything was my fault because of my self esteem in my r/s's I don't feel the same way today because my self esteem is much better.

I used to think that if I try harder with my old belief system that she'll see how much that I love her and that it would repair the r/s, I honestly didn't know how to repair a r/s because of the role models that I had growing up. Honestly if I tried to repair the r/s it wouldn't have worked with my exUBPDw's compartment because she doesn't problem solve I didn't back then either I do today because I see the value of r/s's the good ones anyways the people that you want to keep close.

That being said trying harder, hanging in there hoping that things are going to get better isn't the solution,that's fine if the other person isn't interested, you have to look at your values and think about what you want, set boundaries and work towards your goal because thinking that love will prevail will set you up for disappointment.
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Zen606
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« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2018, 12:58:41 AM »

Hi everybody,
I believe that love can prevail if there is commitment to the relationship from both parties, and both are willing to struggle to make a success of it. However, these words -- love, commitment, struggle, relationship -- have different meanings to a bp disorder/trait person and their non partner. So while the non is willing to give it their all, accept differences, etc., the behaviors and cognitions of the bp partner can make it impossible for the relationship to unfold in a healthy manner. Instead, despite the good intentions the relationship begins with, it is a disaster in the making.

Zen606 
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Chynna
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« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2018, 10:51:46 AM »

I agree. A r/s cannot be one-sided. Both have to be pretty much on the same page and interested, for the most part with the consideration that 2 people are as unique as snowflakes, in building a life together. Wow... .That's seems to be a tall order since the statistics say that half of all marriages end in divorce.
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