Can you check my thinking please?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I told my T yesterday that I felt it was time to tell my wife I'm not happy, the marriage just isn't working, and it's time to look at divorce.  I've been plotting and studying for a while. The fact I said that to my T is shocking by itself. I've done a lot of work on myself and it shows.  I have held off doing anything that might be regrettable by bringing up divorce too soon.  

I'm offering my thought process here to open it up for comments and experience.  I started writing down what I know.  

• my wife is undiagnosed, but displays BPD traits.
  Not happy in marriage.  
  I've always been stoic and dealt with discomfort, even in marriage.
  Kids are affected (and will be affected stay married or divorce).
  I'm most often suppressing feelings that I have to get free of my wife. (this is the line of thought I can't support with facts or rational thought, but it's a visceral reaction that seems absolutely resolved to be there)
  The BPD-type problems won't go away, though I avoid the big triggers pretty well.  
  I got married for emotional and physical intimacy, companionship, and to build something bigger and better in life with someone.  None of that is going to happen normally, nor will it in any foreseeable future.
  Divorce is costly and damaging (but so is marriage at this rate).
  I've backed off of a lot from normal marriage behavior, and that's been hurtful to my wife, but a great deal of that is because of my boundaries to keep me from being a caretaker / apologist / the blamed guy.
  I can stay married for a while more, but, it feels like the road to forfeiting my life the longer I stay married.  

A problem is that my wife is 50% of the time fine, or even great, with others.  40% of the time she's just a touch borderline-ish and I can tell that her core personality is just misfiring.  And 10% of the time (though nothing recently) she's hit black-eyed-pits of abyssal-psychotic-irrational rages, including the quiet-hostility, frigidity, and complete distortion and projection.  

So, my math is this:  I shouldn't base my decision to stay married based on the "good or tolerable" 90% of the relationship.  Although economically it makes sense to take those odds.  Heck, if we could get 90% satisfactory performance out of most things, we'd be in a very happy world.  

However, my life isn't math, or business.  I'm hyper-afraid of doing something selfish or incorrect and regret it later. But, I seem to have arrived at this point where doing anything else is dishonest and more hurtful to stay married.
I also am getting a flicker of possibility that separation and divorce might be beneficial for the kids.

I'm sure I'll add more to my ideas here as I think about it, but, I wanted to air out my thoughts so far.  :)oes it appear to be correct for those who have either stayed or divorce, but (unlike me) decided?  

Thanks in advance.

[SamwizeGamgee]

I told my T yesterday that I felt it was time to tell my wife I'm not happy, the marriage just isn't working, and it's time to look at divorce.  I've been plotting and studying for a while. The fact I said that to my T is shocking by itself. I've done a lot of work on myself and it shows.  I have held off doing anything that might be regrettable by bringing up divorce too soon.  

I'm offering my thought process here to open it up for comments and experience.  I started writing down what I know.  

• my wife is undiagnosed, but displays BPD traits.
  Not happy in marriage.  
  I've always been stoic and dealt with discomfort, even in marriage.
  Kids are affected (and will be affected stay married or divorce).
  I'm most often suppressing feelings that I have to get free of my wife. (this is the line of thought I can't support with facts or rational thought, but it's a visceral reaction that seems absolutely resolved to be there)
  The BPD-type problems won't go away, though I avoid the big triggers pretty well.  
  I got married for emotional and physical intimacy, companionship, and to build something bigger and better in life with someone.  None of that is going to happen normally, nor will it in any foreseeable future.
  Divorce is costly and damaging (but so is marriage at this rate).
  I've backed off of a lot from normal marriage behavior, and that's been hurtful to my wife, but a great deal of that is because of my boundaries to keep me from being a caretaker / apologist / the blamed guy.
  I can stay married for a while more, but, it feels like the road to forfeiting my life the longer I stay married.  

A problem is that my wife is 50% of the time fine, or even great, with others.  40% of the time she's just a touch borderline-ish and I can tell that her core personality is just misfiring.  And 10% of the time (though nothing recently) she's hit black-eyed-pits of abyssal-psychotic-irrational rages, including the quiet-hostility, frigidity, and complete distortion and projection.  

So, my math is this:  I shouldn't base my decision to stay married based on the "good or tolerable" 90% of the relationship.  Although economically it makes sense to take those odds.  Heck, if we could get 90% satisfactory performance out of most things, we'd be in a very happy world.  

However, my life isn't math, or business.  I'm hyper-afraid of doing something selfish or incorrect and regret it later. But, I seem to have arrived at this point where doing anything else is dishonest and more hurtful to stay married.
I also am getting a flicker of possibility that separation and divorce might be beneficial for the kids.

I'm sure I'll add more to my ideas here as I think about it, but, I wanted to air out my thoughts so far.  :)oes it appear to be correct for those who have either stayed or divorce, but (unlike me) decided?  

Thanks in advance.

[flourdust]

I don't see anything in your thinking that looks to be obviously distorted. There's not much else I can say -- it's not really a math formula where we can check your work. If you want a divorce and your reasons are sensible, then it's your choice.

Have you figured out how you are going to tell her -- and, more importantly, what will happen after that? For example, will you be ready to move out? From what I've seen, what happens after the declaration of intention is harder than making the declaration itself.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Salient point.  Thanks.  Thanks also for not finding any evidence that I'm a sociopath or something.  My driving reason at this point is my gut feeling - which is hard to argue with - however, it also can be contained and redirected.  I think.

She is well aware that things are not okay.  I've been sleeping separately in the basement for 2.5 years, for example.  I think if I mention the word divorce again, she won't be surprised.  Perhaps even we'll both feel relieved that the main topic is finally out in the open.  We had a conversation in the Spring in which we said the word divorce, but, she was asking me if I was thinking about it (I'm not recalling all the details and exact words used, but the topic came up).  That type of conversation is much less scary than if she hears me say that I want a divorce. 

My plan is to express understanding that things have been hard, and that it's been tough for both of us.  I'll then say that I know I have not been a very good husband recently and that I've been trying to work on me and decide where I am heading.  I'll try to turn up the empathy.  I have decided to avoid too much of the blame-accepting if it comes up.  I'll not volunteer too many of my wrong-doings just in an effort to soften the blow or deflect blame from her.  I plan to be brief and not too detailed, and tell her that I know our marriage has not been good.  I will tell her that I feel it does not, and will not likely meet my needs.  I will tell her that I feel that I have done all I can, and it's not enough to make it what a marriage should be (intimacy, trust, equality, safety).  I think I'll approach it with minimal details or elaboration.  It's a hard pill to swallow and she might need several small sessions and time to cope.  If all goes well. 

I'll have to fight the temptation to add my grievances, or criticize her.  I could go on about it, but there is no purpose or benefit. 

She has a pattern of shutting down and sometimes disappearing when she gets overwhelmed, so it could be a little scary for a bit.  I am not entirely sure she won't attempt to harm herself and possibly the kids in retaliation.  As you point out, it's one thing to get the nerve up to say divorce - it will require all kinds of greater strength to follow through. 

With much legal advice, and conversation with dads in divorce, in my state, essentially the only way I'll have a good shot at fair (meaning nearly equal) parenting time / custody is to approach that first - and that means remain in the house until custody is decided in court.  If I move out, that sets precedent that she's the primary caregiver, and I am leaving.  I am of quite the contrary mindset.  I have a separate bank account as a divorce war chest with enough for legal fees at the outset and emergency money to keep afloat.  Further, the house is our primary equity and it will have to be sold to make a fair distribution, unless one of us takes a buy-out using retirement funds or other bribes.  But, the main point and the only way to make the kids winners is to get a reasonable amount of custody - some time out from the toxic environment to be kids.

I doubt there is a perfect way to do this, but, is there a better way?  I'd like it if she had support around her, so long as they aren't all man-hating negative advocates.  If I could pull off humor, I'd suggest we look at our options to be really great co-parents, but that might not go as well as I hope.

[flourdust]

With much legal advice, and conversation with dads in divorce, in my state, essentially the only way I'll have a good shot at fair (meaning nearly equal) parenting time / custody is to approach that first - and that means remain in the house until custody is decided in court.  If I move out, that sets precedent that she's the primary caregiver, and I am leaving. 

OK, here is where you need to lean harder on your advisors and generate some other options. Cohabiting while divorcing is really, really hard... .I'll even be declarative and say it can't work with a high-conflict spouse. (I can't think of a counter-example from these forums of it ever working.)

Why not present a temporary separation plan that includes a division of parenting time? Get your own place, with room for kids, and give the wife your written proposal for how custody is divided up. If she disagrees, when you file for divorce, you also file for your plan to go into effect as temporary custody orders. Get the timing right, and it will all happen quickly -- you move out and give your wife the temporary custody plan, she either agrees or you are ready to immediately take it to court and get an emergency ruling.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Thank you again for the objective comment.
I see a practical problem with your recommendation, in that there's not a way I can think of to afford two households.  I may get another place, but, the bank will expect to get paid on the current house regardless.  That would sink the financial ship before leaving port, so to speak.

So, you are saying to propose a parenting time schedule as an enforceable offer when or as the declaration of intent to divorce?  Not talk divorce until I have an agreement ready? (and a second place to live?)  

That's a lot of ducks to line up - and I thought I was preparing more than most!

I'm trying to understand the presentation and preparation that would require.  I'm not saying I don't like it - because I do, it starts with my priority - and seems like it could head off six months of wrangling.



Footnote / aside - I'm curious if my wife is a high conflict personality.  I have done a great job eradicating arguments and hostility.  My wife is more the passive / waif / hermit type with a potential for anger and rage, but, I wonder if she would just fold if I approached divorce decisively.  Does that change your recommendation?

[SamwizeGamgee]

The lawyer I am inclined to retain mentioned a strategy to separate under the same roof, essentially declare that you are separated, get witnesses, and substantial actions (which I can already just about articulate) - and at that point file for custody orders through Juvenile Court. So the custody runs quicker and cleaner than if through family court. 

[flourdust]

I see a practical problem with your recommendation, in that there's not a way I can think of to afford two households.  I may get another place, but, the bank will expect to get paid on the current house regardless.  That would sink the financial ship before leaving port, so to speak.

A little tough love here: you ARE going to have two separate households. They aren't going to be at the same standard of living you are used to. You will have to find a way to pay for them. Maybe you put the house on the market immediately, maybe you draw down savings or pull from investments to cover the gap, maybe you sell your car, you almost certainly cut every other expense to the bone -- but whether it's immediately or in a year, you will be in two separate households. This is not negotiable.

It's likely you're going to need that separate household sooner rather than later, because living under the same roof with kids while divorcing a high-conflict person is a recipe for escalating disaster. I think you're fixating a bit on the declaration of divorce. It's understandable; I did the same thing. But the declaration:divorce as the wedding:marriage. You will have MONTHS ahead of you of increasing problems -- as you fight over custody and financial issues, as you have contentious meetings in court or mediation with your attorneys, and then have to come back to the same home ... .as the kids start acting out as the news sinks in and the stress gets to them. The day you tell your wife you want a divorce is going to be a picnic compared to some of the days that are coming. 

So, you are saying to propose a parenting time schedule as an enforceable offer when or as the declaration of intent to divorce?  Not talk divorce until I have an agreement ready? (and a second place to live?)

In the long run, it probably doesn't matter much if it all meshes together like clockwork, but be ready for these things to happen in pretty tight sequence. All of this introduces a lot of uncertainty into the relationship -- and that's premium fuel for driving BPD anxieties. The faster you can go from "I want a divorce" to "here's my plan" to "I am now taking action to enforce a plan", the better off everyone will be.

I wonder if she would just fold if I approached divorce decisively.  Does that change your recommendation?

What's the saying? Hope for the best, plan for the worst? Your wife might be very passive when you ask for a divorce. Will she stay passive as ongoing stressors mount up -- uncertainty about living conditions and finances, stress from the kids, legal rulings that take things away from her, and so on. To use another metaphor for what I said above, divorce is not ripping off a bandaid. It's more like slowly peeling back layers of flesh to get to the bone.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Ouch.  Thanks again.   And to think my agony for the last two, almost three, years was deciding what to do.  Now I'm getting scared back into submission

I remember 2015, my conclusion was that any lawyer or accountant would just tell me to stay unhappily married - like they were.  Cheaper to keep her as they say.

Your comments do raise issues that must be taken care of sooner or later, and one way or another.  Maybe I'll feel better doing more of the leg work and less of the pondering and wondering.  As a matter of fact, I'm sure I will.  I need to do something for my future, more than lament or hope.

[flourdust]

That's a good way to move forward. It's better to have solid answers on the numbers, so you can be realistic about what will happen. You won't like the numbers ... .it's a hit ... .but you'll find you can adapt to them, and the sting fades over time.

I'm a year+ into the divorce process. Money is tight. Sometimes, that frustrates me. But most of the time, I'm pretty happy with what I've gained. You can't buy being lord of your own domain.

[SamwizeGamgee]

And that goes back to my original existential crisis - whether to get divorce or not.  After that, and I think I'm reaching the conclusion on that issue, the rest is just details.  I had a start in life with relative poverty.  I know wealth and poverty come and go - and is survivable.  Most of all I want to check my decision about divorce.  And I believe that staying in this marriage is far more damaging than beneficial. 
The best quote I coined in this realm is that "no man would be a slave, if the price of freedom was poverty."

[SamwizeGamgee]

Additional thinking after the drive home. 
As I see from comments led by Flourdust, I've got some logistical work to do.  Which is deflating to me, since I so rarely make a decision and take action based on my heart.  Instead my thoughts tonight turned to the practical and pragmatic issues, that leave me figuring out how to stay married and cope.  I do see some ways that are possible to move on the custody and divorce fronts simultaneously.  And maybe I can rig a way to afford it, or grind it out trying.  Rather than discussing it with my wife soon, I'll spend time in legal consultation. 

While I do that, I return to the original concern of whether I'm using good judgement about the source problem - getting divorced or not.  Deciding when to move out is a bit of putting the cart before the horse if I still have to solidify the commitment to divorce. 

One thing becomes clear - it is exceedingly hard to free oneself. 

[ForeverDad]

You have children, right?  The youngest is 7 years old.  Ponder what example staying in a dysfunctional relationship would be for them.  When they grow up, what example would they have known, would they have experienced normalcy, stability, consistent parenting?  Would you be happy for them to have two inclinations, either to be playing catch-up or perhaps appeaser like dad, or to be like inconsistent and unstable mom?  Many children will tend to drift toward and choose what they've experienced.  Even considering your efforts in the last couple years, will it have been enough to help them make informed and confident choices in their adult relationships?

Living in a calm and stable home, even if only for part of their lives, will give the children a better example of normalcy for their own future relationships.  Staying together would mean that's the only example of home life they would have known — discord, conflict, invalidation, alienation attempts, overall craziness, etc.  Over 30 years ago the book Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce had an interesting observation on page 195 by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.  Taking action will enable your lives, or at least a part of your lives going forward, to be spent be in a calm, stable environment — your home, wherever that is — away from the blaming, emotional distortions, pressuring demands and manipulations, unpredictable ever-looming rages and outright chaos.  And some of the flying monkeys too.

Even if the discord and insanity is of lesser nature, it is important to ponder whether establishing a separate and stable home would make a significant positive difference for the children, not just you.  They could still have time with their mother, perhaps a lot of time, but the point is that they will almost surely notice your better example over time in your own stable home and that example could make a real difference in their futures.

I am a huge fan of marriage but if it is dysfunctional and unhealthy then there is more to consider than the financial aspects.  In my divorce decree, amid repeated child abuse allegations, I paid off to my ex her half of the home equity.  Nine years later my mortgage is slowly being paid off but still about $15K higher than it was before we divorced. And that's not counting the times I used my home equity to borrow to pay for major repairs.  I wasn't happy with the financial setback but my marriage had become unhealthy (had imploded) and there was no other option.  Remember the last of the 5 stages of grieving a relationship loss, Acceptance?  If you have gotten to Acceptance then making the next decisions shouldn't be so hard.  Have you gotten there yet?

[SamwizeGamgee]

Your comments prompted me to think about this:
[stream of thought here]
I have reached acceptance.  That has been sort of the gentle slope down, and away from the chaos.  I have grieved the end of something that never really was in reality.  I can cope with that.  

I look inside and see that I don't love my wife - that hasn't been a safe feeling for a long time.  I used to want her, but no longer.  I used to like her, but my feelings now are "business casual" for her.
  
I think that she is acting much better now because I am so good at being nice, and good.  It would be easy to leave her now - and with prejudice - if she was acting up and being overtly abusive or psychotic.  I feel that I would divorce if there were no kids involved - almost certainly.  

I am considering if divorce is inevitable -- as I make it a last-stand, to claim my sanity and independence.  Now, if it's just a divorce because I don't like her anymore, I would probably tend to delay that until the kids are gone.  It's a gamble to assume I know what life will be like in 10 years when the youngest is 17 and concerns with custody and child support are well past.  Then it would be just a division of property divorce.  We'd both still be parents and the kids free to go as they choose.  I don't know what I'd be at that point - perhaps happy and healthy due to my outside interests, or a skeleton of a man decayed by isolation and being the target and victim of insidious BPD behaviors.

A motivation to take the painful choice now and get divorce would be seeing some benefit for the kids.  I am considering that a fully-capable dad - who doesn't also have to navigate a live-in BPD wife might be that much better and worth it in the long run.  Or, is that a selfish-me looking for an excuse to dump a loveless marriage?

[Panda39]

To jump back a little bit, I just wanted to comment on living with your stbx while you are divorcing.

I did that with my alcoholic husband we had to sell our home in order for each of us to get our own place.  There was no money in it for us we were upside down during the housing bubble. I made the decision to divorce in February, planned, told my stbx in April, put the house on the market in May, was officially divorced in August, house went under contract for a short sale in September and finally closed in March of the next year.  I had to live with my ex for a year.  He worked nights, I worked days we saw each other minimally mostly coming and going and on the weekends. It was absolutely miserable! I only had to endure binge drinking rages a couple times a week (he was a functional alcoholic), I can't imagine living a year with a dysregulated BPD spouse. Everyone's situation is different but I would not suggest living with your stbx during divorce... .High conflict or not it's a very highly emotionally charged time for everyone involved.

Or, is that a selfish-me looking for an excuse to dump a loveless marriage?

There is nothing selfish about leaving a failed marriage, to me selfishness has nothing to do with it.  Is the fear of appearing selfish a reason to stay?  Leaving a failed marriage is about a relationship that doesn't work anymore for anyone.

At the end of my marriage I was depressed and withdrawn, when I left my marriage I was happy, open, had a social life, was displaying good healthy behaviors.

My ex lost his wife, time with his son, his house, had his 3rd DUI, lost his retirement (to pay for attorney fees), then went to work smelling of alcohol and lost his job.  He hit rock bottom and finally faced the alcoholism.  He's been sober for the last 5 years, has a 28 year old girlfriend (he's 50), has a new job and by all accounts is very happy.

My son who lived with the depressed mom and alcoholic dad, now knows that people can change, and he has a happy mom and dad.

Leaving a failed marriage could be viewed as selfish but it can also be a gift to all involved.

My SO with the uBPDxw left his marriage (it was a really rough 2 year process... .not gonna sugarcoat it), but once separated his life lifted and he was able to bring his daughters with him. His ex is living with the natural consequences of her actions.  So not a complete happy ending here but I would say 3 out of 4 ain't bad.

Panda39

[Jami]

Hi Samwize,

I was married to a toxic, abusive man (progressively from 2% "off" during courtship to 90% horror toward the end). When our son was 6 months old i understood that i could either stay and die psychologically, emotionally and perhaps physically, or leave. The doubt about handling in the best interest of our son tortured me most, but i concluded that he would have no benefit from a broken mom, combined with an abusive dad. I spoke to my husband, left and filed for divorce. Today, 9 years later, our divorce proceedings are still not fully settled. Ex invested all he could to make me pay a high price for leaving him.

Flourdust is probably right: coming up with the discussion about divorce is going to be like a pic nic compared to what follows. I think it's best to not nourish any illusions, but mentally prepare for all possible outcomes.

In my case it has been hell, but if you would ask me whether i would do it again i'd say YES! I would rather pay the same high price once more than keep living in a cage. I am free. I've built a new life for my son and for me, a good life, we're happy and fulfilled. I'm so grateful for having him at my side, and proud of how we managed to survive the ordeal. When i think back at how i felt 10 years ago, a cold shiver runs across my spine. I would be a shadow of who i am today had i stayed. The lack of material resources after the separation meant nothing compared to the lack of warmth, love, respect and care in our marital home.

This is just my story and one never fits all. I believe that you will find the answers you are looking for and, whatever direction you decide to take, wish you a safe and rewarding journey.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Thank you Jami. Hearing your story is sad that people can be so bad to others, and yet hopeful seeing your strength in overcoming.  It's also a good cautionary tale that the legal abuse is continuing after all these years.  Given your case, I agree the only solution is to leave, even flee, when faced with your situation including threats to your safety.  I believe you have done well, and it sounds like you have made the right choice out of some difficult options. 

I have a much more gray area of a case.  I'm not at physical risk, nor is she actively raging and tantruming.  I do have to decide to not react to her underhandedness, subtle programming of the kids, the fairly constant frigidity and blame.   I think it's still hard for me to articulate what I experience.  If things were worse, or something I could explain and verify, the decision would be much more clear-cut to leave.

@Panda -  I think I am still working on being sensitive enough to me and loving myself enough to accept that I need to leave a toxic marriage.  It's hard to get me to that point of saying that it's been enough and time to go.  I often think that it's not _that_ bad.  And yet, I see no hope of improvement, so I'm not really hanging on for anything else. 

[Turkish]

I do have to decide to not react to her underhandedness, subtle programming of the kids, the fairly constant frigidity and blame.

These things could get worse.  What are your feelings here if you look into the future?

[teapay]

From all your posts you sound like your want to leave because you are just unhappy in your marriage, not due to significant disruption at home.  That is something you do need to face good or bad to make your decision.  Is that unhappiness/anxeity deeper than just your W past and current behavior, or are there other desires and anxieties involved.

Also, if you do decide to divorce, it would be in your interest financially and for custody to get your W back to work full time for awhile.  This could delay you implementation, but your kids are getting older so time is on yourside.

[SamwizeGamgee]

I believe there is not major discord and disruption at home because in two years I have learned to become the superhuman cork in the bottle.  Two and a half years ago was when the psychotic rages of my wife drove me to the edge.  It's a question of how long I can last, what changes are permanent, and how long the genie  stays in the bottle. 

I do realize that I am unhappy in marriage, and may be regardless of uBPD behavior.   Thought I have learned to be internally happy.  Sometimes I question myself if I'm looking at BPD as a justification.  However I don't think it is that simple.  There is genuine pathological parenting going on. 

Which leads to the answer to Turkish's question.  The future looks abysmal if I slip up, or she gets worse, or menopausal, maybe. 

[BeagleGirl]

SamWise,
I seem to be asking myself the same fundamental question you are asking - Can I justify divorce?  I haven't come to an answer for myself, but I have addressed some of the other questions you are asking or have yet to ask. 

Like you, my dBPDh is not physically violent and I have learned to manage the worst of the behavior.  I have asked myself a million times if I could just live this way, managing my response to the BPD behavior, even just for another 4 years until S14 is out of the house.  It's really hard to put into words how bleak that kind of life sounds.  Many people won't ever understand the concept of a marriage devoid of the trust and safety that it takes to have any kind of intimacy.  Most people will assume it's something that can either be fixed or tolerated, especially when coming from a religious background that sees marriage as the earthly representation of God's relationship with mankind.  Most days I believe that, which is why I am still asking myself if I can justify divorce.

While I haven't been able to reconcile myself to divorce, I did decide that I couldn't remain under the same roof as my dBPDh.  His hurtful behavior was escalating and more frequent and my emotional state was deteriorating very rapidly.  I physically separated from him 8 months ago and started the legal separation process about 5 months ago.  Some things I've learned:

-You do have to know what it will take to maintain two households, and it's better to have short, mid, and long term options researched well before you make a move.  I feel I had a bit more leeway in my options because I'm a mom, my son is older, and my dBPDh was not going to fight for anything more than 50/50 custody.  I was able to make moving out my short term plan and that gave me the mental/emotional space to make better mid/long term plans without worrying about impacting custody. 

If you do move out, I would follow the advice of others and get a place that will accommodate 50/50 custody or work out a "nesting" plan where the kids stay in the family home and you and BPDw take turns in an apartment when not living with the kids.  I considered the nesting, but couldn't bring myself to share space with BPDh, even if we weren't in the same space at the same time.  You may find it a more workable compromise than I did, at least in the short term.

-Behavior during separation/divorce will not be pretty.  You can (and should) manage your behavior but even your best behavior is likely to be seen as selfish and hurtful and BPDw may show a version of herself that makes you wonder how you ever loved her.

In my situation, the behavior dBPDh has exhibited has been a bit of a blessing.  I believe it has kept me from reconciling too quickly (if reconciliation is an option) when the pain of the separation would have probably driven me to do so.  Which brings me to... .

-This process will hurt more than you could ever imagine.  Hopefully you will have more support than I've had, but this separation has caused rifts in every major relationship I have because most don't feel it is justified.  Some of that is because I choose not to share details that might "convince" them but a lot of it is because they have no frame of reference for the pain that can be inflicted when there is no physical abuse or infidelity. 

This process will hurt because of what it is doing to your children, even if you feel it is the best for them in the long term. 
This process will hurt because it's different to be "alone" in your home with a distant spouse and preoccupied children than to actually be ALONE in a house.
This process will hurt because there is no guarantee that leaving this relationship will open up the possibility of a better one.
This process will hurt because your world will be torn down to the foundation and you won't always know or like what that foundation is.

-Divorce/separation only reduces the power your (ex)spouse has to hurt you.  Sharing children means they will always have some role in your life.  Besides that, you will start to realize how much a part of your thoughts and view of yourself and the world they are even when they are no longer a physical presence.

-Everyone will have an opinion, but nobody will share the burden.  Even the most faithful friends can't be with you 24/7 which means that there will be (a lot of) really lonely times when you are struggling to hold on/make decisions/breath.  And there will be plenty of people who will second guess/criticize every choice you make (as if you aren't doing enough of that yourself).

-It will get better.

-You will grow stronger and more empathetic.

Please let me know if you have any questions.  I'm still very much in the middle of my "story" and I have no idea what the ending will be, but I may have been down a few roads you are considering.

BeagleGirl

[livednlearned]

Do you feel you have some room to try things out?

I believe there is not major discord and disruption at home because in two years I have learned to become the superhuman cork in the bottle. 

What would happen if you said you wanted to go on a trip by yourself, or do something with just the kids?

Could you uncork the bottle a bit as part of the decision-making process?

[Jami]

Hi Samwize,

i've been thinking about you and hope you're well. I'm afraid my last post came out kind of clumsy (suffering a bit of insomnia lately, my brain isn't always working as it should). I had no intent to compare my story to yours and understand the difference between the threats of a "grey zone" vs those of an obvious DV situation. I also understand how complicated and delicate it might be for you to take a decision because of that.

What i wished to focus upon is the material aspect of separation, as referred to in many previous posts. As much as the financial troubles of an eventual separation might seem unsurmountable, i believe that they should never be a primary hinderance to us following our heart. Regardless the gravity of our situation, if we're unhappy and investing all our energies just to avoid conflict (cork), without gaining any respect, love, warmth and truly intimate exchange in return, it is questionable how much we'll be able to evolve and grow on our path. It may be idealistic, but i believe in the importance of doing our best to forge a life we can be happy and serene with. Not just for ourselves, but for our children as well.

In this perspective, material issues are just material issues. Matter comes and goes. Periods of draught will be followed by periods of plentitude. At the end, what counts is that we can grow old and look back and see that we've made the right choices to live a plentiful life.

Wishing you all the best,

Jami

[SamwizeGamgee]

Jami, your comments were fine, and I welcome them.  If I keep with the idea of "obvious" reasons (and I know that's different to different people, and no less painful of a decision) I find myself a little wishing that my wife would hit me, or pick up a vice or two, or do _something_ to be a tangible and reasonable cause for divorce.  Alas, I writhe away in the unhappy and less clear area.  I remember and have noted my suffering from past abusive behaviors, but, I keep minimizing it in hind-sight.  I also see many ways in which I self-sabotaged, and was equally abusive or unkind.  I have differentiated my behavioral past from that of my wife as in my behavior was a result of my environment, and unskilled responses to the mountain of FOG I was under.  However, it appears that my wife's persecutions are as core to her behavior as anything can get.  She can put a pleasant wrapping on it when un-stressed, but at heart, I believe that she cannot become non-BPD in behavior. 

That said, I do take an interest in gender differences facing divorce.  In my keyhole perspective on this, I think most dad victims have an excruciatingly difficult time deciding to divorce, since they may face new burdens in kid care, or the fear that they will loose established time with the kids.  Meanwhile, I think most mom victims face fears of financial stress and fears of worsening abuse, since moms are usually more assured of time with kids if it came down to a court battle.  What's true in all cases is that I feel sorry for them.  The "winners" in an adversarial court system are usually the abusers. 

There's no doubt material things and finances are important aspects.  I can foresee surviving a brief separation, supporting two households.  But I know that some contested divorces can drag on for years and affording that is inconceivable as of right now.  I've tried to be wise and prepare financially, but, I'll never have "enough" money to afford it. 

I like your comment about forging ahead with a life built on happiness.  Having learned what life is without it, I can agree. 

Thanks again for your comments.

LnL - sadly / not sadly I run most of my life as though my wife wasn't there.  I went on a week-long road trip family vacation with with all the kids and it was great.  I'm usually planning and going on dad / kid activities without my wife.  I travel alone for work every so often, and again, the inner peace is notable.

I think what I need to do to "un-cork" the bottle is become less nice, less flexible, less absent from my wife's "space," less of an overachiever.  That would let me try out life as a normal guy with normal emotions and then feel the pressure build up.  If it's going to blow due to me living normally, then let's get on with it.