I think it just ended

[Tired_Dad]

So tonight my wife became triggered from my son and I waiting outside the bathroom so that he could brush his teeth and go to bed. Not sure why it was triggering to her since she had stated that she would be out soon when he knocked on the door, but it was and everything snowballed from there. So here I am, I just finished cleaning up the broken pieces of the glass she smashed on the floor and I am oddly calm. She drove off with her last words to me being that "you lost me and so did everyone else" I notified her sister since even though I don't want her anymore she is the mother of my child and I do actually care about her physical welfare.

A large part of the argument was from her being set off that i was recording our fight. It is inadmissible as evidence for a divorce, but it is useful as a record that I didn't abuse her though it's full legal usefulness is debatable at least psychologically it may keep her from making any false claims.

I will be contacting a lawyer on Monday, and I am wondering if any of you know if there is any way that I can legally keep her temporarily out the house and away from me and away from our son? She has been recently fluctuating between rage and suicidal due to using controlled substances and not taking her prescribed medication among other things. One day she is shouting at me to keep my son the next she is saying that she won't leave without him. I feel often that he is little more than a trophy to her, she tried to make some threats about it and I offered to call the police which she declined.

Ok, don't know if I really am looking for an answer or if I just needed to get some of this out and I'm not ready to blast this on Facebook or to family or friends.   

[flourdust]

I will be contacting a lawyer on Monday, and I am wondering if any of you know if there is any way that I can legally keep her temporarily out the house and away from me and away from our son? She has been recently fluctuating between rage and suicidal due to using controlled substances and not taking her prescribed medication among other things. One day she is shouting at me to keep my son the next she is saying that she won't leave without him. I feel often that he is little more than a trophy to her, she tried to make some threats about it and I offered to call the police which she declined.

It may be possible -- a good question for the lawyer(s) you interview. Your recordings and logs of physical violence and raging are good to have as documentation.

A temporary restraining order and/or an order declaring the house is your sole residence can be ordered by a judge, but probably not until a divorce case is filed. (Sequencing gets tricky here and can slow things down.) In the immediate short term, an option would be to change the locks on the house and provide her with a paid furnished apartment or long-term hotel. It's not an airtight legal remedy, but it might provide enough of a barrier to keep her away, if that's what you think is best.

[Tired_Dad]

Thank you for the input flourdust.

Changing the locks would be physically very easy for me, but ultimately I feel that it would go against me very catastrophically as her name is on the deed even though it is not on the mortgage. Also I don't want any issues to come up from any perception that I may be trying to deny her parental contact.

A restraining order is a bit of a stretch as I do not feel that I am in physical danger from her, I am more concerned of her damaging property that I have sentimental attachment to out of spite or doing other intentionally harmful actions against our property.

On the plus side she went to her sister's for the night and having the whole house to my son and I has been a pleasant respite.

[ForeverDad]

You do not always need a threat you fear to get a restraining order, at least in some states a temp order specifying which parent has 'possession' of the home is virtually standard.  Ask your lawyer what your state and your court allows.  It may be as simple as asking the court, when you file, for possession during the divorce listing practical reasons why it is needed.

Also, if you're successful in getting possession of the home, you're more likely to become the primary parent in the court's eyes.  (This does not block you child's mother from contact, the court will also issue a temporary parenting schedule.  You need to make sure the more stable parent - you - gets a favorable schedule and hopefully recognition as the primary parent.)

Most here are Nice People and we often are too fair and too timid when approaching the legal issues.  You may have to adjust your perspectives.  Not that you become mean or unfeeling, but you ensure you aren't reduced to a less involved parent.  Hesitating to determine whether you can get possession of the home is one example of a risk of being self-sabotaging.  By holding back regarding something you may, in effect, be enabling her to grab it.

Is your lawyer experienced in court, including trials, more than just filing forms and holding hands?

[Waddams]

Well, she just broke a bunch of stuff in the house, that's physical violence.  I'd say you go ahead and file for a TRO to remove her from the home on the grounds of she's gotten physically violent and threatening to you and the kids, it's just such a small step to jump from breaking things to attacking people, as well as you and the kids have a material interest in the physical assets of the house - her opportunity to cause more property damage needs to cut off.

The worst that can happen is it can be denied, and then you're still on official record with an immediately recent event, and it's documented to the authorities.  I'd recommend maybe having a cop come by and do a police report about hte property damage as well.  Show him the broken property, give a statement, etc.  If the kids were there and are of sufficient maturity to handle it, they can give statements as well.  The report can then be attached to the TRO as supporting evidence.  A cop seeing the damage and documenting it, as well as hearing recordings, etc. - that's powerful 3rd party corrobation, it takes your claims beyond "he said, she said".

Thing is - if you file against her, immediately file for divorce as well.  It's going to trigger her even more, she'll experience a very powerful abandonment/rejection trigger.  You'll be starting WWIII, so especially if the TRO is granted, don't EVER let up and let her back in.  Don't deviate from any terms of the orders, etc.  And for Gawd's sake, don't ever give in to any impulses to reconcile or let yourself be charmed.  If you do, I guarantee that once she's back in the position to do it, she will exact a very harsh revenge. 

[Tired_Dad]

Waddams... .It would be an exaggeration for me to say that she broke a bunch of stuff. She smashed one glass on the floor and though it is destructive and unwarranted I had it mostly cleaned up before she even left as I don't want broken glass on the floors my family walks on.

As an update though she was supposed to return from her sister's today but is apparently stuck there. Seems that while driving there her sister thought it would be a good idea if she didn't drive all the way and that they would meet and her sister would drive the rest of the way while she parked her vehicle overnight at a rest area (which is allowed in that state). Unfortunately she got off the highway and parked at a gas station and they are going to tow her vehicle if it's not moved by 5am tomorrow. So though she has had all day to figure this out it is now an emergency and she blew up at me as I was asking her questions about where her car was (I was trying to determine if the service station was on the highway or off of the highway and she couldn't answer that... .seriously, couldn't answer that she got off the highway) and flipped out out and blamed me that she "wouldn't have had to leave if I didn't record her."

So once again nothing is her fault, I am to blame for her parking her car on private property, and not having a plan to get home. So in the morning I will either have to be late for work or find a way for my son to get to school in the morning if she doesn't get back in time (He's old enough to walk, I just don't know that I am ready for him to be old enough to leave the house on time and walk yet).

And to top it off I was not able to call the lawyer today because the day just got away from me.

[ForeverDad]

Periodically you'll need to take a personal day off work to get the important things done.  It's not like you're going to have fun vacations with your vacation days right now.  While work is important, some days you have to make a call on what needs to come first.  For example, if you were sick, you'd probably take the day off.  Same with this, this is a family crisis and you need to do something productive about it.  Productive is more than fetching her car, it's visits to lawyers, etc.

If her sister met her halfway then her sister ought to know where the car is.

You can't fix everything, none of us could.  Sometimes she will just have to face the consequences of her actions, despite her blame shifting attempts.

[Waddams]

Regarding the car - let them tow it.  Let her figure out getting it out of impound.  She created the problem.  Let her stay stuck at her sister's.  Let her solve her own mess. 

Regarding her blame shifting - remember that even if you did something that she had a legit reason to be mad about, that does not give her a free pass to act like this, it doesn't give her a free pass to do stupid sh*t.  She's responsible for being an adult and maintaining self control of her reactions.

And I agree with FD - go talk to a lawyer ASAP.

[Tired_Dad]

Thank you for the continued input - Hopefully today I will be able to call during my lunch and set up an appointment with the lawyer. I do have the ability to take personal days, however I am being a slight bit cautious with them as I have only been with my new company for just shy of a month now and don't feel like gaining the reputation of being the guy who can't take care of his personal life on his personal time. (I know that is crap, but it's the reality of the industry that I am in). However, since the meeting will be scheduled getting the actual day off will not be an issue since I will have advance notice.

On the plus side I didn't rescue her, maintained my boundaries, and went to bed. She arrived home at some time during the night and laid down on the couch. This morning was calm, and it might be that she was just too exhausted to be angry.

Today is another day and it feels like a resolution is coming on. 

[livednlearned]

She arrived home at some time during the night and laid down on the couch. This morning was calm, and it might be that she was just too exhausted to be angry.

Sometimes, during a big dysregulation, people with BPD may not remember the full episode. Emotional arousal can come on so quickly and be so intense it blocks out other cognitive processes. But when it's over the damage is there to see, which elicits shame, which can lead to poor coping skills to manage that shame.

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

What was going on that you felt it was best to record?

[Tired_Dad]

I have been toying with the idea for some time and was mostly against it, but recently her behavior has become erratic enough that I felt it best that I record it so that I have at least something to go by when / if she accuses me of abuse.

Apparently if she takes a swing at me and I block it and she gets a bruise that is abuse. I in her rage I hold her wrists to keep her from hitting me that is abuse. If I take a kitchen knife out of her hand that she is swinging around while talking and dis-regulated that is abuse. any time that she gets a bruise she attributes it to abuse, even when I'm not there. So pretty much I would rather take the punishment for illegally recording a conversation that to be in a he said she said abuse allegation.

[Waddams]

Apparently if she takes a swing at me and I block it and she gets a bruise that is abuse. I in her rage I hold her wrists to keep her from hitting me that is abuse. If I take a kitchen knife out of her hand that she is swinging around while talking and dis-regulated that is abuse. any time that she gets a bruise she attributes it to abuse, even when I'm not there. So pretty much I would rather take the punishment for illegally recording a conversation that to be in a he said she said abuse allegation.

Here's how it works - the one that escalates the most use of force is the one that is deemed the primary aggressor.  In a he said/she said situation, the cops go by what they see.  If you leave bruises on her in self defense, and you aren't marked at all, then what happens is the cops see marks on her and none on you.  So they arrest you because it appears you used force that bruised and marked her, and whatever she did, it wasn't force that was escalated as bad because it didn't mark you.

So - you're literally better off letting her hit you and mark/bruise you, and making sure you don't mark/bruise her.  It means you have to take a few lumps, and that's not right to my way of thinking, but that's the best way to defend yourself legally after an incident when the cops are involved.  It's also the best way to get her arrested or justify a TRO, document how you got your marks and go file for the TRO.

To defend yourself against false allegations, yes recording yourself is a good idea.  Also, if you have a smart phone, there are apps that will track and record everywhere you go, every minute, every day.  If she accuses you of something when you aren't there, then you can show your record showing where you were to refute her.

Remember, cops are trained to confuse and trip you up.  The more you keep your mouth shut to them, the better off you are.  I suggest talking to a DV lawyer, getting some advice on how to defend yourself, maybe even a few cops that might be friendly.

[livednlearned]

Here's how it works - the one that escalates the most use of force is the one that is deemed the primary aggressor.  In a he said/she said situation, the cops go by what they see.  

Waddams has a good idea to talk to a DV lawyer, and ask how things work where you live when it comes to a DV call. In some states, depending on whether they are dual-mandate (both parties get hauled off), the person who appears capable of inflicting the most harm is the one they arrest. In other states, it's both parties that get picked up, and they let the judicial system sort it out.

I believe there are also states that mandate charges if a DV call is made. Meaning, if she called DV and then changed her mind, some states mandate that she has to go forward with the charge. And vice versa, if you were to call.

There are degrees of severity, too, about the charges. I don't know how it works where you live, but here, a neighbor or third-party calling is a worse offense. If drugs/alcohol are involved, if there are weapons, or anything that looks like it could be used as one, those escalate the seriousness of the charges. I saw what I think might be the state training manual for DV incidents for cops and it reminded me of how to approach an animal. Like, are the fangs bared, hackles raised, growling, etc. The more aggressive the stance, the more likely the cops would act first, sort it out later.

I would definitely ask the DV lawyer what might happen if you showed a cop the recording, whether you're in a one-party or two-party consent state, if you haven't already. Depending on what you are told, you might have a workaround like the one david (who posts here regularly) uses, where he records himself, and calls it a journal. Hopefully he will weigh in here.

If she were to call, and god forbid your worst fears comes true and she makes a false allegation, the more calm your demeanor, the better, it sounds like.

About the police -- this isn't your situation exactly, but I left abruptly while my ex was at work, after he began freezing credit cards and trying to lock me out of accounts. Officers came to the house with me to be on the safe side because my ex had guns, what they call domestic assistance in my state.

They hung around while I gathered up necessities for me and my son, and told me I couldn't take our dog because she was considered marital property. Both officers loved dogs, it was clear, and they saw how broken up I was to leave her behind. When they were getting in their cars, one of them said to me, "You can't take your dog while we're here. What you do on your own time ... ." As if to say, take her when we go. They know the laws, and they also recognize that people get away with things, sometimes for good reason. I was worried ex would destroy our dog  and the cops had empathy, and let me see a loophole.

I see that cop around, he's like a walking souvenir of that day.  

There are rules to all of this, and ways around those rules if you do your homework. And it sounds like you are being proactive, which will help you get a small advantage. Being 10 steps ahead of my ex is the only reason things turned out relatively ok, compared to what the alternatives would've been.

[Tired_Dad]

Thank you for the suggestions about DV. I will first be going over that with my attorney when we meet to see if he is versed in the nuances of DV in my state. I expect that he is from his bio, but I like to look people in the eye when I ask them these things.

Strategic thinking has been by advantage and my curse. I am an Army officer and I am always thinking 3 to 4 steps ahead of any action I take, weighing the pros and cons, coming up with contingency, branch and sequel planning yet in all of my experience I think that there are fewer variable in dealing with combat than dealing with a BPD.

I am particularly sensitive to any threat of DV as a Lautenberg violation would essentially end my career.

On a note we have had the police come to our home before as she called them when she was dis-regulated and triggered and wanted to leave and drive with our son. I was not having any of that as I did not feel it was safe, so she called the police, who came and saw me calmly holding our son and her flipping right out and though not siding with me directly as they couldn't they did help to convince her that she may not be in the best position to drive with our son. The local police are professional and I do know a few officers in the department.

She has also through her statements in therapy caused DCF to visit us and evaluate us for potential abuse / neglect of our son. She loves to say things like "we never have food in the house", "all he eats is junk", and when I pick him up off the floor or move him (he's almost 10 and shouldn't fall to the floor at this age when upset) he makes a point to say ouch or that I'm hurting him when she is home and than she get's triggered. As a note to that I never yank or pull on him and always pick him up from under the arm or around the torso. And yes, we do use corporal punishment in the home, and no, I have never left a bruise on our son, nor have I used a belt, spoon or other device than my hand. I do believe in limiting it, but as this is how I was raised I think that it is part of my I am respectful to authority and a functioning adult.

[livednlearned]

we do use corporal punishment in the home, and no, I have never left a bruise on our son, nor have I used a belt, spoon or other device than my hand. I do believe in limiting it, but as this is how I was raised I think that it is part of my I am respectful to authority and a functioning adult.

This can get tricky if your son inherits his mom's predisposition. If he does, you could start to see pronounced sensitivity sometime around 18 months. I think of as a sensitive genotype, which is what my son seems to have, falling short of a full-blown BPD diagnosis.

My ex used corporal punishment with both of his sons (half brother, older) and S16.

Older brother is resilient and it seems to have not phased him. Whereas S16 is definitely a sensitive kid and the punishments devastated him. He was suicidal at 8. The combination of genetics and having a severely invalidating BPD parent pushed him close to the edge.

I hope this doesn't come across as meddling. Parenting a sensitive child is not very intuitive, if your son ends up being wired that way. I had to completely rethink how I parent my sensitive kid.

[Tired_Dad]

I do not perceive it as meddling. I am open to feedback as the ultimate goal of a punishment is to never have to use it but to have it known that it could be used. Discourse on any topic when respectful is welcome.

So far my son is by all appearances very resilient and very adaptive. He has begun to be acutely aware of his mother's anger and of her absence when she is away or hiding in the bedroom. He appears to me to be rolling with it, but he seems to voice more worries to my wife than to me. I am not sure if it's because that shuts her down as she is always trying to find a blame somewhere and it may be a defense for him to just come up with one, or he may realize that to me I just want to solve issues and not perpetuate them, and the last of course is that she may be projecting herself onto him and distorting what he says in the worst possible way.

My son is quite independent and responsible outside of school. In school we are struggling with his ADHD and are doing what we can to avoid medication but he is smart and even though he lacks focus his grades do not seem to be impacted. He is very close to me and it is also a source of conflict that he often goes to me or wants to spend time with me as opposed to his mother.

[Tired_Dad]

Update: Had an interaction go from 0-100 amazingly fast the other day. Went from me asking how her day was going to her accusing me of remotely hacking her cell phone while I was off camping with our son. I attempted to close doors, walk away, get out of the house, get to my car and she kept blocking me saying that "it's not fair to our son" for us to be going on like this. In my head I am screaming that she needs to stop and I am doing my best to stay calm until I snap and answer her as to why I was recording her is "because you are bat ___ crazy and have repeatedly threatened to claim abuse." I am not proud of that as I do not like resorting to insults and I was trying to get away from the situation without escalating it anymore. She had already pushed through 2 doors (no locks) and I had to push her away from me and then hold her off of me as though she is small and doesn't pose a true physical threat I am under no obligation to let her hit me.

I have contacted my lawyer and we are meeting on Monday. I need to get a separation and I think even a protective order as if I defend myself it will only be claimed as abuse from her. I do not like being stuck in a corner like this and in a situation where gender is going to determine more of the outcome than mental illness.