I am separated from my ex wife - we're talking

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Im looking for some honest advice, so please does judge me. This is very difficult for me. I am separated from my ex wife (12 years)  since August. When we broke up, because she cheated on me with her co worker, and still dating him today. She immediately wanted to be friends. For weeks, my emotions went back and forth, and one day it was yes, the next it was no. Finally I went no contact with her. After only 10 days, I broke contact and asked her to be friends.

We had some back and forth arguing but she agreed. I told her (and I mean this from my heart) that I can accept she no longer loves me and wants a new relationship. I told her she deserves to be happy, and we can remain friends. She asked if the next day we could go for a coffee, and we did. We talked and walked around for a bit, and in awkward times I said, "I can let you go and talk to you later", and every time I did, she said "No its fine. I want to stay and talk."

It was cordial, and explained to her that I have made peace with our failed marriage, and wish to talk to each other without all the emotional baggage. She told me certain things she said she was still upset at me for and I explained, "I could say sorry, but here we. We can't change the past, nor can I change we said or have done. We have to move on and accept its over."

The conversations were all mature and civil. But then, she brought up her boyfriend. She mentioned, "I know you don't want to hear this, but at times I think he just wants a piece of a_ _ from me". I laughed and said "that is for you to figure out. I don't care to hear about that."

Later on in the evening we were texting and I tell her that I just want to see her happy, and im glad that she is happy with her new boyfriend. And YES I do mean that! She then tells me "Im not so sure I am. I don"t think he feels the same way about me that I do for him".

Again, I was taken back, and said "Why are you telling me this? That is for you to figure out. I don't care to know about this"

Soo... .my question is... .is she testing me to see my reaction? Or is she hinting that things are not going so well will the new guy and she wants to give me another shot? Im not saying i want to go back. I just want to decipher what this means is all. I do accept our marriage is over and accept that she has moved on, but I do still have obvious feelings for her.

[Making sense]

Im looking for some honest advice, so please does judge me. This is very difficult for me. I am separated from my ex wife (12 years)  since August. When we broke up, because she cheated on me with her co worker, and still dating him today. She immediately wanted to be friends. For weeks, my emotions went back and forth, and one day it was yes, the next it was no. Finally I went no contact with her. After only 10 days, I broke contact and asked her to be friends.

We had some back and forth arguing but she agreed. I told her (and I mean this from my heart) that I can accept she no longer loves me and wants a new relationship. I told her she deserves to be happy, and we can remain friends. She asked if the next day we could go for a coffee, and we did. We talked and walked around for a bit, and in awkward times I said, "I can let you go and talk to you later", and every time I did, she said "No its fine. I want to stay and talk."

It was cordial, and explained to her that I have made peace with our failed marriage, and wish to talk to each other without all the emotional baggage. She told me certain things she said she was still upset at me for and I explained, "I could say sorry, but here we. We can't change the past, nor can I change we said or have done. We have to move on and accept its over."

The conversations were all mature and civil. But then, she brought up her boyfriend. She mentioned, "I know you don't want to hear this, but at times I think he just wants a piece of a_ _ from me". I laughed and said "that is for you to figure out. I don't care to hear about that."

Later on in the evening we were texting and I tell her that I just want to see her happy, and im glad that she is happy with her new boyfriend. And YES I do mean that! She then tells me "Im not so sure I am. I don"t think he feels the same way about me that I do for him".

Again, I was taken back, and said "Why are you telling me this? That is for you to figure out. I don't care to know about this"

Soo... .my question is... .is she testing me to see my reaction? Or is she hinting that things are not going so well will the new guy and she wants to give me another shot? Im not saying i want to go back. I just want to decipher what this means is all. I do accept our marriage is over and accept that she has moved on, but I do still have obvious feelings for her.

[Sargeras]

It's an awkward situation. I'm dealing with something similar.

This goes without saying, but she still has feelings for you. 12 years of marriage doesn't evaporate over the course of a month or two. She'll most likely always have feelings for you to some degree.

The fact that she's seeking you out for coffee, letting you in on details about her relationship you didn't ask for, etc, is worth certain considerations. I'd say there's a good possibility she has discovered/is in the process of discovering that the grass is not greener on the other side. She definitely doesn't want you to go. You reacted very well to her comments about her boyfriend. Don't let her use you as her emotional dumping ground. She's always going to have a story to tell about this guy and it does you no good to listen to it. She needs to understand you're BROKEN UP.

She may be testing how receptive you are to speaking with her/what she can get out of you. I don't have a crystal ball, but she may very well be hinting she regrets having done what she did and wants you.

I really don't think she's moved on in the capacity you may think she has... .She cheated on you, and no doubt feels bad about it. The fact that you're still talking to her and have wished her good things speaks volumes about what kind of guy you are. Some people don't want anything to do with someone who's cheated on them, but your willingness to talk to her while keeping the boundaries you have I think makes you look very mature and stable.

It's easier to leave a relationship when someone is pulling you out. She didn't really give herself time to properly grieve the relationship. Now that things may be unraveling with this new guy, and she sees you can handle yourself, you're looking good. While her feelings for you may not be "obvious", they are just beneath the surface.

Should you stay or should you go? Youre gonna have to figure that out for yourself. Do you want to re-engage in a relationship with her and think about the possibility of her cheating on you again? If you don't want to try to salvage the relationship and work thru things with her, perhaps it would be best you set her free. So long as you talk to her, moving on will be much harder.

Ask yourself what YOU want. You have rights too.

[Turkish]

Would you take her back?

[Making sense]

Would you take her back?

Not sure, but major development happened tonight. We were texting innocently about wrestling and suddenly I shifted gears on her and asked where things went so wrong with us. We talked about her not communicating and us fighting. I then asked, "Why  do you REALLY want to be friends with me. What could I possibly offer you as a friend?"

Then tells me what I had assumed all along, "I just want to be friends but maybe I do still have feelings for you"

To which I replied, "If you have feelings for me, then why just stay friends?"

She told me she needs to figure things out. And finally I get it. Her relationship with the new guy is not going so well and she is doubting it will work so she wants to internalize who she would rather be with.

Guys, I love my wife. Even through the lies and cheating. Cant explain why, but i do. Like everyone you love, you choose to love them, not for what they can do for you. Anyway I told her something I never thought Id have the strength to do. I told her if she does have feelings she must choose between him or me. She was upset and her last text was "ttyl" (Talk to ya later). I hurt her, but I believe what i did was right. She wants us both and does not want to lose either one. I had a feeling. Im not sure what i will do. So hard to say. She works with this guy, so whats the probability of her dating me and him anyway in the future? Im not sure. I guess she has to get to the point where she tells me she now wants a relationship, then we can finally talk and figure out if that could work. Now what I know about BPD since the  break up? I don't know.

All I can say is, do I still love her? Yes i do.

[Turkish]

My ex asked to come back over 3 years after she left me for her affair partner,  now husband.  I was under no illusion it was for me as such,  but to be with our kids. 

This is a good time to inventory your core values.  The break is fresh,  so are your feelings on both sides.  She's hurting and reaching out.  You're soothing her.  You're getting something out of this as well.  It's hard to know what to do of your gut is sending you conflicting signals. 

[Making sense]

I've never been one to have had a ton of girlfriends over the years, but what makes this hard is that she is conflicted with who she loves more:  a guy she cheated on me with, and her husband of 12 years! To me, the answer is easy, but if to her the answer is hard, that is an insult to both guys. I have NEVER been in a situation where a woman is in love with me  AND another guy.  I should be happy that I know she has feelings for me, but knowing my own Wife cannot make up her mind between me and him makes me mad, and wants to tell her to forget me. She can choose him since she is already with him.

[Hisaccount]

You realize as long as you will always be there to fall back on then she will never have to make a decision or deal with what she has done.

Sounds to me like you are torturing yourself and need to detach some. (just 3rd party outside looking in)

I am sorry you are going through this, we all have been there. I tried to be friends but found it just kept me attached to her. Or her attached to me and I could never heal.

You probably feel like getting back together with her will solve everything including your pain, but I can tell you it will never be the same. Even if she was truly sorry and wanted to make it work, you will have feelings of resentment.

Just be sure you have thought it through before you jump back in. Make sure you have had some time to heal and developed some new and firm boundaries to protect your own health. 

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Making sense, Talk is cheap, as they say.  What has she done that indicates growth or change?  Worth thinking about before you go too far down this road.  LJ

[Making sense]

She called me this morning to tell me "Really appreciate the ultimatum you gave me last night". I explained to her again what I wanted, then left my feelings on the table in a text. This is what I sent her:

"S_____. Im no longer going to be afraid to tell you how i feel. Yes, I do love you.  Not like. Im 40 years old. I deserve someone to love me in return. If you love him, then you have your answer. This is not about a punishment for you. This is about what I want for me.  You now know how I feel. So the ball is in your court."

I have my doubts I will ever hear from her again, but I guess it had to be said. This hurt, and took a lot of courage. I will miss her, and I hope she does realize that.

[Making sense]

We have talked since and I think I finally have closure, but there is a problem. I asked my ex if there was anyway we could try again, and start dating again, to which she said no and she had stronger feelings for the new guy. She just wanted to be friends, and that is it. I then told her we could be just friends but I may need to step back for awhile I get over her. To grieve and the let her go completely. I started to cry explaining that I never accepted that the Marriage was over, and I still loved her, but if I did need that time to grieve her, I would come back to be her friend without any romantic feelings.
 
This actually upset her! I guess fear of abandonment? I mean she still has her boyfriend to talk to and see, so why is she so worried if I go away for a bit? I kinda expected her to say "No problem, take time you need, and I will be around when you want to talk again." Nope! She is mad at me! I even explained I would come back, but this would be so I could get over her, and not cry like a 5 year old every time I see her. I was CRYING on the phone to her... .yet she is mad that I need some grieving time away from her, and she has her new boyfriend to keep her company. I don't understand!

[formflier]

Strong move... .good move... .to lay out your feelings and what you need and "put the ball in her court".

Good stuff to stand up for yourself and your feelings.

I would let her think about that for a while... .and reduce contact. 

If it was me... .I wouldn't want anyone make "snap judgments"... .she likely didn't get to this place quickly and she likely won't move on from it quickly either.  That's up to her... give her time.

In the meantime... .you focusing on you is a really good idea.  Build you life... .if she chooses to attempt to join you, then consider it at that point.

If she chooses to do something else... then you haven't wasted any time that could be spent building you.

Hang in there!

FF

[flourdust]

It's called projection - she sees her feelings in other people. She's content, so she believes you should be content as well, and she's annoyed that you aren't.

A disordered ex with a new boyfriend is probably not the best place to turn to for emotional comfort about your breakup. Can you make a plan to reach out instead to friends or family?

[Notwendy]

I read this thread and at first, wanted to commend you for standing by your values.

This is not to tell you what to do, but to make note that you- looked at your feelings/values and stated a boundary based on them. This is really what a boundary is about- our values- not controlling someone else's choices. Yes, you felt bad about this, and she reacted as if you did something to her. However, you didn't do anything to her. You stated what was important to you.

 Anyway I told her something I never thought Id have the strength to do. I told her if she does have feelings she must choose between him or me.

This was ( to me) authentic, coming from you- being courageous to say what you want: an exclusive relationship rather than making a decisions about what she wants. I see you wavering a bit over this- what if things aren't great with the other guy, what if she wants me back? Her feelings may waver, but the focus here is you- your feelings- and what you want and you said it. This took courage because it included the risk of her choosing him or you, but you know that if she stayed with you when she really wanted him, that wouldn't feel right for you.  You want an exclusive relationship with someone who chooses you too.

Then, I kinda wanted to shake you a bit when you wavered and thought this was being mean to her. Why is it mean to be honest about what you want. What if you didn't say this and you decided OK, I will share you with this guy just to be nice and not upset her? You know that isn't true, so basically you would be dishonest with her and yourself if you said this. How is this nice?

She's made her choice for now, but you know that dysfunction doesn't go away and that relationship will likely have it's ups and downs. She may possibly reach out to you during the down. Do you choose to wait for this, or work on recovering from the relationship? That's not a choice anyone can make for you. However, staying "friends' may also mean staying as a possible back up. If you want to recover and move on, would staying in this friend place work for you?

One way to look at this interval in your relationship is that it gives you time for self examination and deciding what is best for you to do. You may not know at the moment, but focusing on yourself now may help you decide.

[formflier]

You seem to be in a place where you are being very honest with yourself... .and communicating that to others.

Can you focus for a bit on reasons why you would want to be friends... .list that out here.

Can you focus for a bit on reasons why you would want to move on and heal from the r/s.


Many times seeing things written or typed out... .really make a difference.  You can move statements around... .prioritize... .etc etc.

At least it works for me... .   

The key point for you to continue to focus on is "self honesty"... .work that out for you... .with as much clarity as possible.  Then let clarity guide you.

FF

[Making sense]

Can you focus for a bit on reasons why you would want to be friends... .list that out here.

Well... .we are no longer friends and I decided to break ties. She texted me last night with a simple "hey, what are you up to?"

Then she asked if we are still meeting for coffee on Saturday again. I told her ":)on't you honestly think we have come to the end of our relationship... .I mean everything. The Marriage, friendship... .us?"

She said no and that I was always her best friend. I asked what kind of friends could we become now? I said "I'm the same guy that loved you, the same guy that made love to you, and the same guy that fought with you. How can you look at me without any heavy emotion anymore good or bad?"

Again she explain she could because there is no hard feelings anymore and reminded me that she does not love me.

To which I replied, "Well I do. And I cannot see us being just friends, while I still have feelings and you will still see love in my eyes when I talk to you."

She got mad and stated "So are we going to have coffee or not?" and told her basically that this seems like the end of the road for us and said

"I guess this is really goodbye. I will always love you"

Her response was the "peace" emogi and a middle finger one. That was the last thing she said to me.

Its for the best, and always knew it, but I had to come to terms with the fact that I was co dependent on her, and my self esteem was so low that I was so afraid to be alone with nobody to love me. I feel very confident this morning that I made the right choice, and did it without crying. Like many of you, I was put down, verbally abused, lied to, cheated on, yelled at, and ignored, but as pathetic as it might sound. Im going to truly miss her.

[formflier]

"I guess this is really goodbye. I will always love you"

 

I'm gong to post about a letter I wrote my wife... .basically sharing same sentiment.  Strong move... .

I like the sharing of feelings... .I like the boundaries.  I think those will guide you well.

I'm going to post the letter here in just a few.

FF