Tonight is the night. My first date since

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Tonight is the night. My first date since the exBPD introduced me to all the nuances of PD.
I met her online and we talked on the phone for over an hour. She is a widow and raised her daughter for the last 6 years after his death. Daughter is off to college.
All your comments scare me about moving too quickly.
I can't take another emotional equity drain after the breakup in June. 8 solid weeks of depression abyss and constant ruminating.
Only a new job and support of friends I didn't realize I even had, made the difference in my life to lift me up.
I'll keep you posted tonight or Tomorrow.
I have the tools learned here and elsewhere.
 

[Lost-love-mind]

Tonight is the night. My first date since the exBPD introduced me to all the nuances of PD.
I met her online and we talked on the phone for over an hour. She is a widow and raised her daughter for the last 6 years after his death. Daughter is off to college.
All your comments scare me about moving too quickly.
I can't take another emotional equity drain after the breakup in June. 8 solid weeks of depression abyss and constant ruminating.
Only a new job and support of friends I didn't realize I even had, made the difference in my life to lift me up.
I'll keep you posted tonight or Tomorrow.
I have the tools learned here and elsewhere.
 

[Dontknow88]

 Have fun and take things slowly! Keep us updated!

[Lost-love-mind]

No connection. We both mutually agreed that we had very little in common.
Next week is another coffee date.

[SuperJew82]

FYI my TalkSpace ( online (legit) therapist ) Said dating and getting yourself out there was a good idea. I think ANYTHING besides sitting and thinking about your ex is GREAT!

Basket Weaving? Do it!

Online Dating? Do it!

Church/Temple ? Sure!

Drinking alone and crying yourself into the fetal position in the corner of your room? Negative... .

Hang with Friends? YES!

That's my take on it anyways.

[spacecadet]

No connection. We both mutually agreed that we had very little in common.
Next week is another coffee date.

Hey that sounds healthy to me... .you both recognized stuff was missing and moved on.

Skip, I like what you say about dating as a way to systematically weed out the not-ready's etc. and look for what you really want.

I would like to know your advice as to how we can rapidly identify those who are not over their ex's? Because I've definitely ID'd some people like that quickly, but the more socially adroit can better hide these issues. I definitely do not spill all in the first date (or 2-3) about the men I've loved the most, nor the sharpest hurts in past r/s that failed.

Most of us self-reveal one layer at a time, like an onion. Which may or may not be an apt metaphor depending.  

To add about dating soon after break-up... .there's some room for latitude here, and I'm fine with casual dating. It does help to rebuild our wounded pride. It provides pleasant lunches or evenings and I enjoy conversing with new people in general. What I think is important is to know yourself and how ready you are to become "involved". Also one of my values is integrity so I'm not going to mis-lead someone into thinking I'm more serious or ready to become serious quickly when I know that's not the case. If they leave, so be it.

I am leaving the door open for the ex, I reached out to him this week... .in case there may be friendship potential or possibly more. Yet I have no idea what his interest level is, or his readiness for friendship. So at the same time, I'm meeting men who can take things slowly and let friendships develop.

If someone drops me because they need instant commitment or sex within 2-3 dates, well... .may they find what they want... .but I can't help them.

[Lost-love-mind]

Now today is my next online date. Last week was a bust. No connection.
 She texted me the same the next day.

Today, a woman that has never been married and has no children. Red flags?

My exBPD was previously married twice (both musicians) but had no children, plus 10 yrs younger (she was 45) and a factory laborer with only HS education. Her most bizarre feature were her multiple macabre tattoos, and wore pigtails when we went to conservative functions.

I've noticed that women I met with since the breakup that have children show a level of maturity that I did not see in my exBPD.

I don't want to prejudge this woman I'm meeting.  On a quick phone call we discovered were both in the same 12 step program for alcohol. While she has no children , she gives piano lessons to children. She is my age and has a college degree. I don't like to sound judgemental, but advanced education makes for easier conversation.

Wish me luck and I have plenty of education to ferret out any PD red flags.

[Insom]

Good luck with this one!  Let us know how it turns out. 

[SuperJew82]

You can't really judge people from what they look on the outside ( for the most part ), I have learned.

My exDBPDGF had multiple degrees and was a medical professional. She looked stunning. It was when I was getting to know her that the red flags came out ( but I was recently out of a crappy divorce and had blinders on )

FWIW - My ex's red flags

1.She messages me online. It took nearly 2 months to meet. ( she was prob seeing someone at the time )
2. She started talking about serious stuff pretty soon on in the relationship ( credit scores, possibility of blending families, etc ... .I chalked it up to quirkiness and just made jokes of it )
3. Odd comments that I didn't know how to respond to. e.g. 2nd date... .we are at a speakeasy late at night and she tells me that " I make her feel so safe "
4. Finding out her mom was married 4 times.
5. The intensity from her in general. The idealization was glaring, but I was head over heels with all that just coming from a distant and avoidant ex-wife. Guess I was just soaking it in?

Looking back I have no idea how I was able to justify the plethora of red flags. I think we come out of this more educated and have our radar systems patched up so I think we are good.

I'm back in the dating scene and you kind of have to think of it as a numbers game. There are plenty of good people out there that are just not on your same wavelength and that's okay! You just have to go on more dates to you find someone you match up with! It's fun meeting new people and learning about them. Everyone has an interesting story!

One thing I am noticing is that regular healthy dating seems to move a bit slower of course. I'm perfectly fine with that and it makes all the sense in the world, but in the back of my mind, I'm thinking " this is a bit on the slower side " just because I'm comparing it to what I had in my last venture.

Fantastic Job getting yourself out there! That is absolutely wonderful! Don't get discouraged or give up! All it takes is just one great date to hit things off!

[Lost-love-mind]

This date was a disaster. Woman shows up and needs to clarify who I am and from which dating site she met me.
Aykm?
She has never been married and had no children. Proved my theory about lack of maturity when you have never had responsibility for another human being.
Without going into details, we had nothing in common.
It was so bad, I woke this morning and wanted to contact my exBPD. Thinking only of the good times. DA me. I went to the library before the date to take one last look in the mirror (e.g. narcissism). I realized I was next to the picnic spot overlooking the scenic lake where my exBPD and I bonded to the max (so I thought). Ugh!
No, I'm no going to do anything stupid. My recovery sponsor sent me an email reminding me of BPD and the dangers like a drug addiction.

[SuperJew82]

Seems like most of the time you end up being totally right on the gut feelings. Never married/no kids at a certain age can be a flag. I'm pretty good at spotting them, but I've been surprised a couple of times.

Online dating isn't for the faint of heart and I know exactly how you are feeling. Just keep in mind it's just a numbers game. You might be 5 dates away from finding someone you click with. For every bad date, you are that much closer to finding someone on your wavelength.

Another tip: Stay away from the "Free" sites. Having someone shell out a couple of dollars a month weeds out a lot of the time-wasters. They are more likely to be serious. Good ones are Match and eharmoney. There are good people on the free sites, don't get me wrong, but it takes a lot more "weeding out".

Hang in there!

[once removed]

Today, a woman that has never been married and has no children. Red flags?

... .

Wish me luck and I have plenty of education to ferret out any PD red flags.

Never married/no kids at a certain age can be a flag. I'm pretty good at spotting them, but I've been surprised a couple of times.

guys, are we dating or "red flag hunting" 

but seriously, if youre walking into a date counting red flags and on the alert for them it suggests youre hypervigilant. it suggests fear and avoidance are guiding your approach to dating. a healthy, emotionally available prospect will sense this and screen you out.

is never being married and having no kids a red flag? no. "i like to punch babies" is a red flag.

never being married and having no kids might be worth scratching off your list if you cant relate, if you find out the person isnt looking to get married or have kids, etc.

the trick to overcoming fear and avoidance in dating involves experience, putting some new tools in your tool belt, knowing what to look for in a partner, and learning to be a better partner yourself. these things replace fear and avoidance with confidence and certainty.

beezleconduit, the fact that you had a bad date and that was a catalyst for wanting to contact your ex suggests you might want to spend a bit more time detaching.

you mentioned in another thread that you have three months of self examination behind you. what have you learned about you? what have you gained to take into a healthy relationship and guide you in the dating process apart from what you want to avoid?

[SuperJew82]

once, I'd like to say that I don't think of it as a "red" flag " but a "flashing yellow light ( in the states ) Caution is advised but go ahead and keep on moving.

Most of the time if they are 30s,40+ , and have never had a serious longer relationship - something is going on.

Most of the time I will go on a date with someone like this, but I do later find that after I'll find a ... ."oh yea... .you like to club baby seals, do ya? ... .that's interesting... ."

[once removed]

once, I'd like to say that I don't think of it as a "red" flag " but a "flashing yellow light ( in the states ) Caution is advised but go ahead and keep on moving.

Most of the time if they are 30s,40+ , and have never had a serious longer relationship - something is going on.

i dont think theres anything about this description to be cautious (on alert) about. those circumstances dont threaten anyone.

the point im trying to make and should have been clearer about is that those sorts of things might (in theory) speak to incompatibility or conflicting values. weed out people youre not compatible with, yes. seek partners with whom your values align. but these things arent a sign that we should be on alert for anything sinister.
if we are governed by fear and avoidance, the dating world will look like a shark tank, and who wants any part of that?

my point is if you approach dating from a values standpoint of what you want in a partner (age, relationship experience can be part of that), that will do most of your screening for you.

This date was a disaster. Woman shows up and needs to clarify who I am and from which dating site she met me. She has never been married and had no children. Proved my theory about lack of maturity when you have never had responsibility for another human being.

in this case, beezleconduit is strongly connecting the fact that she has never been married or had children to what sounds like just a bad date.

[SuperJew82]

I'm sorry - I do not wish to make my fear of dating contagious.  I don't want to be hurt again like that ever again. I actually have met a few girls that are really into me ( just a couple of dates ) and I find reasons to dismiss them. I don't know if they are "real" reasons or just manifested reasons in my head. Weird huh.

Don't take any dating advice from me, for the love of God.

[Lost-love-mind]

Thanks for the insights and I really appreciate everyone's feedback but I think I'm pretty much done trying to find a functional woman to have a relationship based on honesty.
Unfortunately, my pessimism is based on reading some more on PD and women. I think our new Society based on social media has led two a plethora of PDs including BPD and narcissism.
With the holiday season upon us I've decided that it's the worst time to be on dating sites and if I am to meet somebody it will be at a community or church function.

[once removed]

Unfortunately, my pessimism is based on reading some more on PD and women.

beezle, knowledge of PDs can be a tool to inform your recovery and fill in some gaps/answer questions in your relationship postmortem.

two issues here though:

1. unfortunately the internet is not only rife with urban legends, but it has a tendency to paint a picture of a world where personality disordered people are all around you, and basic everyday human nature is pathologized into "red flags" and cunning predators that will hurt you. i am getting the sense that you might be picking up on some of that material. you called looking in the mirror a sign of narcissism.

2. knowledge of PDs isnt a dating guide. i know that your breakup is recent and things are raw - further down the road, it can be a good idea to transition the knowledge youre seeking to learning not about PDs specifically, but human nature, as it applies to all of us. it will give you a more balanced outlook and perspective on how your relationship broke down, it will make you more mindful and self aware about yourself, and it will help hone what you want to find in a partner. youll better understand people, how to read them, and how to get along with or without them.

I don't want to be hurt again like that ever again.

i think all of us have felt that way. it is why i emphasize being governed by certainty and confidence as opposed to fear and avoidance.

to both of you, the world is not full of personality disordered individuals. BPD effects about 2% of the population (5% in some studies). for the most part, they are low functioning and visible. this is a bit different than most of our exes, most of whom are lower on the spectrum (though nonetheless extraordinarily difficult), and have traits.

having said that, upwards of 30% of the population, at any given time may suffer from some form of mental illness. that can mean anything from depression, anxiety, to traits of a personality disorder, to just being a difficult and challenging person, even toxic person.

what all this means to us, is that we have two options. we can spend our lives trying to spot difficult people, and hide from them and avoid them. thats a life governed by fear and avoidance, and unfortunately, that doesnt have a high success rate when it comes to finding a healthy long term relationship, because it renders us emotionally unavailable. the other option is to arm ourselves with knowledge and tools to navigate in a world full of difficult people. to build ourselves into powerhouses who thrive in that world. to learn more about ourselves, our shortcomings, our tendencies and bad habits, and become not just stronger and better adjusted people, but better and more attractive partners to romantic prospects. to learn more about what we want in a partner, to develop the confidence to believe and know we deserve it, and the certainty and fortitude to walk away otherwise.

when the latter happens, you wont ever be hurt like that ever again. it just wont happen, because you wont get caught up in relationship turmoil or dead ends, even if you get involved with a "difficult" person.

thats not to say you wont be hurt again. ive been hurt a few times since my ex. its part of dating, its part of bonding and trusting another person, its part of life. someone who thrives has the tools to nurse their wounds, grieve in a healthy way, and bounce right back. as tom petty says, "dont be a afraid anymore. its only a broken heart."

if I am to meet somebody it will be at a community or church function.

this is not a bad idea. good way to meet folks with aligning values  

[Hisaccount]

two issues here though:

1. unfortunately the internet is not only rife with urban legends,

2. knowledge of PDs isnt a dating guide.

Yes and Yes.

We often run to the internet to get reviews and information on a TV or a car we are looking to buy. Health conditions are no different.
Not every relationship involving a someone with a PD is bad, will fail, or be abusive.

Successful people in a difficult relationship are not on the internet looking for help and writing about their sorrows, they are out enjoying life.

Pick a new car for example. Say a Ford F350 pickup. They have sold millions upon millions of them. Go on the internet and look for the people complaining about them. You will find what? a couple thousand. Say you even found 10,000 people complaining and saying it is the worst truck ever.
That sounds like a lot, but it is still less than 1% of total pickups.
The other 99% are doing the required maintenance and out pulling their camper or boat and enjoying life.

I would love to find someone with a PD, but traits must include
Workaholic (make lots of money)
Antisocial (doesn't want to spend that money)
Sex addict (self explanatory)
Addiction issues (addicted to me)
of course I only want the good ones and none of that bad.
Yes that was meant as a joke.

Even healthy relationships have highs and lows, but they should never become abusive.