Engagement called off

[DeltaBravo]

This could be a long post so thank you in advance for whoever reads it as i would like to get responses from people with such experience.

*Current situation :  ( my ex fiancé has blocked me everywhere )
*Relationsip: 3 years and was engaged for 5 months

For people who are too busy to see my post talking about the situation in 2015 i will make a short introduction of the relationship so far.

“I have been dating with a girl thats suffers from panic disorder and anxiety for the past 3 years. “

Needless to say but it has been such a rollecoaster ride.

After barely surving the first year the second and third year together were a dream come true. I have never felt more loved by someone or met someone with such a nice heart. Her condition was getting better and better till this year i realised that the reason for that was not only myself being studying hard on how to help her better herself but also Benzos.

I started seeing the effect on her life and our relationship going down the path of doom again. From drowsiness , to being spaced out when we are out together on a date and being completely emotionless when she is giving me a death from a thousand cuts every time she was upset with something.

Around May this year i lost my family member to a car accident 7 days before getting engaged with my GF. She was in ER and when i got the call at work literally went straight to the airport with almost no battery on my phone to fly back to europe. From there straight to the hospital and then back to airport to fly to Asia. Total 4 days or MIA regarding my GF.

As soon as i arrived back and in a very bad mental state i charge my battery at the arrival lobby and see a wall of text of how i am the worst person ever to make her worry and where have i been etc. No matter what i said after that she said it was over and she would never trust me again and that her mother will not allow us to be together again. Not ashamed to admit but i lost it. Too many emotions to handle in my head i sent her a kind message explaining what happened back home but she was having none of this. Eventually I lost my family member after days of battling the injury with no one to talk to and my GF seriously thinking that it was just an excuse ( lie ) and that i got cold feet before getting engaged.

GF went MIA for 15 days then she says i will meet you to break up with you face to face. So i went to meet her and she told me her family thought me missing for 4 days was interpreted as not being serious about the engagement as they did not know what happened to me. She went on dissecting me part by part and telling me that there was a guy waiting for her for 2 years to be single and she is dating with him now. I start walking away with my head down and she follows me and walks with me at the station where we said good night.

GF went MIA for 15 days again and i could not hold on our engagement ring anymore so i told her that i will be at certain place certain time to propose you. She comes , we engage. Was as romantic as it could ever be and the following few months were a bliss.

Her mother asked me for her to trust me again that i have to move in together with her daughter so we started planning. We booked a few houses for viewing and the one we liked the most would be available in 2 months so we waited. Once we went to see that house to our surprised looked nothing like the photos. The previous owned destroyed the place floors kitchen etc and i decided to not take it after discussing with my fiancé. ( we had 2 more houses to view )

When she went home that night ( 3 months after our engagement ) she messages me telling me its over and i had my chance but she cannot trust me because we did not rent that wrecked house even though she also agreed it was a bad idea. She went on saying her mother gave me a chance and she does not trust me and that if i message her again her mother will be angry.
She proceeds in saying a very cruel goodbye out of the blue again and disappears.

Next day she asks me like nothing happens if we can see other houses to which i said of course and that we can move anywhere she wants. She changes again and says good bye.

This time she goes full black mode and pretty much called me deceptive, liar , useless etc. Anything that would make a guy never go back to a woman pretty much.

Blocks me everywhere and leaves me with our dream in my hands and her last message being that i should never contact her again.

I went to see a therapist to see what was truly going on.

He told me that only by listening half the story there is high possibility that she is either BPD or an adjacent personality disorder. ( suffers from Panic Attacks and is being medicated for it ).

I learned so much from him.

I was 35 days in NC  and she contacted for the first time after receiving a letter from me that was sent the day she left me.

First I got an email and message on all my known addresses saying a few negative comments. Then after that she called 3 times and the third time i picked up. In a span of 1 hour and 25 minutes on the phone she switched from  marginaly white to black 9 times without any provocation on my side. Knowing a only a little about BPD by now I realised a bit  what she was doing.

At the end of the call she split me to black because i did not give in on any of her insults and she hanged up saying yet again good bye.

I would like advice from people who either suffer from such condition or experienced break up reconciliation with such type of person.

My feeling and determination are not coming from a place of desperation but i want to have the life we dreamt with my ex fiance and i need advice on what I can do?

Why the block again ( now day 14 )

How do you think she is dealing with this?

Many thanks but i am in need of Major Help with this.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Tattered Heart]

Hi DeltaBravo,

I"m sorry that you are going through such a difficult time. It's hard to say what is going on with your GF. She may be feeling overwhelmed with all of the changes going on, she may be harboring a bitterness about things, or her mom may be too involved in things. No matter what the reason, I"m sorry that it's been so hard for you.

ALthough you can't force her to begin contacting you again, I know many have found that just giving things some time to settle down helps. Let her have her cooling off period. Just from the history that you described it sounds like once she is no longer mad, she begins contact again.

Until then, we have a lot of great resources that can help you begin learning more about BPD and how to communicate with your pwBPD. This might help you talk with her better so that when/if she gets in contact again, you can understand her better. All of our workshops are on the right side of the page. Take a look through and I hope you can find the stability that you are looking for in your relationship

[DeltaBravo]

Hello tattered heart,

Thank you very much for kindly reading this long post and taking the time to reply.

How much i wish i knew about this board much earlier.

One kind lady from LS community pointed out when she saw my story that my fiance could be having BPD on top of her panic disorder. The more i started reading about it the more i saw what was happening in our relationship.

Actually to be honest she never came back to me in 2 previous break ups and she never says sorry for anything. I had to push very skillfully for her to come back and keep in mind I still had no idea she might be having BPD back then.

The scary part this time is that she blocked me for 1 month then unblocked when she saw the letter and called me for almost 2 hours basically berating me over the phone. Luckily by that time i was already reading on a daily basis on how to not react and most of the insults did not hurt anymore. I would like if possible to describe the phone conversation here and get some ideas from other members.

I guess my biggest question where there is no answer is whether i have been split black permanently now. I have definitely been the white knight for the past 3 years as i had no idea she might have BPD. All i knew was that she has panic disorder and I did my best to study and visit by myself therapists after work to learn how to make her life better.

The materials have been very useful so far and i am steadily reading on communication skills now.

Thank you for reaching out and i hope other members with experience can support me in this if possible as she is a great person and though i have the choice to walk out any time i want to have a good relationship with her.

I know it will be hard , very hard but i want to give it my best shot.

[DeltaBravo]

Hello Everyone would love to see some more ideas and insights on the situation.
Many thanks

[DeltaBravo]

Hello Everyone would love to see some more ideas and insights on the situation.
Many thanks

Hello everyone.
I really need your support if possible.

Two things I realised after joining the forum.

1) out of sight out of mind ?

2 months since I last saw her and 2 weeks since she called me after 1 month of having me blocked.

2) silent treatment ?

I am blocked again now but from what I read here that means permanent split black?

I am so much pain in waves. I moved in the house we were supposed to be moving in together and can't bear the feeling.

Any help to rekindle advice would be very welcome. Please help

[DeltaBravo]

Hello everyone.
I really need your support if possible.
 
Two things I realised after joining the forum.

1) out of sight out of mind ?

2 months since I last saw her and 2 weeks since she called me after 1 month of having me blocked.

Hi everyone.

Anyone who can advise please ?
2) silent treatment ?

I am blocked again now but from what I read here that means permanent split black?

I am so much pain in waves. I moved in the house we were supposed to be moving in together and can't bear the feeling.

Any help to rekindle advice would be very welcome. Please help

[Tattered Heart]

There are no hard fast rules with BPD. My H says that a lot of time for him "out of sight out of mind" is the way he thinks. He has a hard time with object permanence. Not all people with BPD are like that though. Same with being painted black. For some people with BPD painting black lasts for hours or days and for others it can be years.

As for the silent treatment we have a couple workshops that might help you come up with some ideas on how to handle ST:

Silent Treatment
Fear of Engulfment

[Meili]

Being blocked does not mean a permanent split. As TH said, there are no hard and fast rules to any of this. BPD is a spectrum disorder. This means that each person falls on a different place on the spectrum and each situation is unique.

You said that you are reading about the communication tools and trying to put them into practice. That is good.

Why did she berate you about the letter?

[DeltaBravo]

There are no hard fast rules with BPD. My H says that a lot of time for him "out of sight out of mind" is the way he thinks. He has a hard time with object permanence. Not all people with BPD are like that though. Same with being painted black. For some people with BPD painting black lasts for hours or days and for others it can be years.

As for the silent treatment we have a couple workshops that might help you come up with some ideas on how to handle ST:


Silent Treatment
Fear of Engulfment

Thank you so much mate for replying it means so much to me. I will do the workshops today.

One question for you. A lot of the members say that BPD people will try reconnect from their side.  In my case that has never happened yet. It was always me that had to reapproach. We had one more break up from her side 4 months ago because I could not call or text her for 4 days. My mother was in ER and had to fly back to Europe suddenly. She seems to be high functioning BPD but when we started dating she said only she has panic disorder. Could it mean she does not have BPD if she never tried to rekindle from her side?

[DeltaBravo]

Why did she berate you about the letter?

Hello friend and thank you for joining the conversation.

I will try to be as descriptive as possible.

The letter was addressed to her mother.

Very respectful letter. Why the mother you might say.
According to my Fiance the mother said I cannot be trusted as things were not moving as quickly as they wanted. Moving new house etc.

Basically in the letter I apologised deeply in case I created any frustration on my part and I stated clearly how serious I am about the daughter. The three main points are below:

1) I found great apartment for us to live. Now moved on my own.
2) I am ready to marry any time she feels she is ready. We were both ready before breakup
3) I will take care of her financially as she cannot work anymore due to the panic attacks becoming more frequent at work.

The letter was found 3 weeks ago but the fiance found it instead of the mother. Immediately she unblocked me everywhere and sent the same message in all my addresses that read " I found the letter, my mother has not read it , please do not involve my mother "

Then a few minutes later called me:

fiance: I am just calling to see if you have seen my message .

Me: of course I have.

Fiance: ok then goodbye ( but she stays silent and does not hang up )

Me: how have you been ? I missed you. It was so tough when you blocked me suddenly.

Fiance: it's your fault that I blocked you. You know it.

Me: I am sorry you feel this way but I understand you were upset maybe. How have you been?

Fiance: I have been ok. My life has been peaceful since I left you. One month when I was blocking you i realised that you were the reason that my mental state was bad. I want my 3 years with you back. How many times have I stayed awake all night and not being able to eat because of the stress from you

Me: I am glad to hear you have been fine. All I wanted to know is that you are safe ( while we were together she was saying the opposite. Because of me her panic attacks became less and I was her most loved person in the world )

Fiance: You took me for granted didn't you ? Even now you have not changed.

Me: I am sorry you felt this way. People get engaged and married to be together in good times and bad times. I thought that you would talk openly and give things a chance.

Fiance: I am not coming back to you so goodbye. ( Then silence again )

Me: I believe my feelings are well written in the letter, you know how important you are for me. Everything we have been dreaming about is happening now. Can you at least think about it?

Fiance: there is nothing to think about. About the housing you still have not found a place right ?

Me: I have found shortly after you blocked me. You know the area we wanted to move did not have many places open but something became available so I rented it for us and I live there.

Fiance: you are a liar goodbye. ( Silence again )

Me: I can send you a photo of the contract if you want.

Fiance : no way I don't need that because I am not coming back. It's over. Goodbye and hanged up.

Me: ( next morning I was still unblocked ) sent her the contract by email.

Fiance: I told you on the phone yesterday it's over don't contact me again.

I was getting notifications that she was reading my last email once a day for 4 days till she blocked me everywhere again. The phone conversation was 1 hour 30 minutes but that's the main parts of it.

Help me understand guys. Thank you for your time.

[Meili]

It is terrible when we try to show love and are met with rejection. I bet all of that was painful and confusing.

While no one can know what another thinks, it is possible that she could, as TH pointed out, be reacting out of a fear of enmeshment.

It will probably be helpful to you if you get to talk to her again, not to bring up anything romantic or relationship oriented. If she does, then to follow her lead.

Until then, however, it will serve you well to learn all that you can about BPD and how a person with BPD traits can be guided by their emotions.

[DeltaBravo]

It is terrible when we try to show love and are met with rejection. I bet all of that was painful and confusing.

While no one can know what another thinks, it is possible that she could, as TH pointed out, be reacting out of a fear of enmeshment.

It will probably be helpful to you if you get to talk to her again, not to bring up anything romantic or relationship oriented. If she does, then to follow her lead.

Until then, however, it will serve you well to learn all that you can about BPD and how a person with BPD traits can be guided by their emotions.

Thank you for your response Meili.
This community is great.certainly i am learning a lot.

From my story am i going mad or she really has BPD?

The only way i can contact now is either letter again or wait for her after work or just wait in hope that she will initiate contact which she has never done before.

Also its almost impossible to not talk about relationship as we were so close to marrying and she will bring it up for sure.

I am spending 2 hours after work everyday studying as much as i come.

Thank you once again

[Meili]

Unfortunately, we are not doctors, so we cannot diagnose. Whether or not you think that she is borderline is something that you will have to decide on your own. I think it's Borderline Personality Disorder, but how can I know? is a good place to start with that.

She's asked you not to contact her, so it's a good idea not to do so. Waiting for her after work and sending a bunch of letters is a good way to start legal problems. Besides, chasing like that just makes people look needy and clingy; neither of which are attractive.

So, what do you do while she's sorting herself out? You sort yourself out. Use the time to focus on yourself and doing what you need to do for you. Learn all that you can about BPD and ways to communicate with her in a healthier manner. You cannot control her or her choices, only your own so put your energy there.

Take up a new hobby, try something new; these types of things will give you interesting things to talk about if she does contact and make you more attractive. Even if she doesn't, with the way that social media is these days, she'll likely see or hear about what is going on.

[DeltaBravo]

Unfortunately, we are not doctors, so we cannot diagnose. Whether or not you think that she is borderline is something that you will have to decide on your own. I think it's Borderline Personality Disorder, but how can I know? is a good place to start with that.

She's asked you not to contact her, so it's a good idea not to do so. Waiting for her after work and sending a bunch of letters is a good way to start legal problems. Besides, chasing like that just makes people look needy and clingy; neither of which are attractive.

So, what do you do while she's sorting herself out? You sort yourself out. Use the time to focus on yourself and doing what you need to do for you. Learn all that you can about BPD and ways to communicate with her in a healthier manner. You cannot control her or her choices, only your own so put your energy there.

Take up a new hobby, try something new; these types of things will give you interesting things to talk about if she does contact and make you more attractive. Even if she doesn't, with the way that social media is these days, she'll likely see or hear about what is going on.

Thanks,
All this is so new to me.
You make a lot of valid points.

Unfortunately we have no common friends as she has none and social media both we dont do. It’s trully a fact that she will not hear or i want hear about her unless both of us communicate which can only be done by her side i guess now.

I have read the part you mentioned. She has a lot of the symptoms apart from self harm. She also never says sorry.
Very sad

[Meili]

That does make it harder for her to see what is going on in your world, but it doesn't change my advice about focusing on you and the things that are in your control.

[DeltaBravo]

That does make it harder for her to see what is going on in your world, but it doesn't change my advice about focusing on you and the things that are in your control.

Thank You Meili,

I will work on that.

I wonder if she does not contact for months if i should make a move from my side once i learned much more about the disorder? Again sorry for the silly question but its been 2 months since this started and literally i am living day by day.

[Meili]

No need to say thank you, we are all here to help one another. But, I do appreciate it.

Whether or not to try to re-establish contact is a difficult choice to make. It is advisable to make sure that you are strong enough to handle any rejection that might happen. That isn't to say to predict rejection, just be strong enough in your sense of self that if there is rejection that it won't be damaging to you even if it does hurt.

Even then, it's recommended that the communication be short, friendly, and bright. The relationship should not be brought up unless she brings it up and then just to follow her lead. Don't push anything. Don't chase her.

Have you figured out why she said that she feels that you took her for granted?

[DeltaBravo]

Have you figured out why she said that she feels that you took her for granted?

Basically the problem came down to 2 things.

1) we were planning to move in together first as she leaves at home with parents and her brother who had a failed marriage. The father according to her has never talked to her since she was born. Mother has a relationship with someone else who is married and the daughter sees that guy as her father. Regarding housing after our first rift in May of this year she said when we got back that her mother will only trust me if we move together by September. We wanted a house in a popular area and the units were limited. The one we reserved for seeing was completely trashed and needed repairs when we moved in. She said we dont have to take it if i am not comfortable with it so decided to decline and keep looking. When she went back that day all hell broke loose. She said her mother told her to leave me and that she does not trust me anymore. Then 4 days following were hot and cold.

2) she was having panic attacks and related to trains. Eventually she was bullied at work and panic attacks started happening there. We have agreed that she can quit her job forever. We agreed to do so once we move in together. She said I am telling you my mental stay is in breakdown i need to quit now. I said i will not ask you to do so because i respect women and that has to be your choice but will support you if you decide to do so.

Somehow she thought i was lying and was not serious about being with her and that i was taking my sweet time moving forward. This is the part she mentioned on the phone as you took me for granted. No matter what i said made no difference after that.

I am very good with communication with people and never had an argument with her or became angry, though she always said to me i know you are angry but I would not react.

What really sucks is she on benzodiazepines for the panic disorder and i am not sure how that can affect people with BPD reactions ( even though i studied about it no conclusion on my side ).

She is a great woman and i really respect her but it is terrible to not be able to help her. I wish i found this forum much earlier.

Your continuous help is appreciated. I hope i can return the love to the community one day as i am in for the long haul.

Thank you once again.

[Meili]

I'm not quite sure how those two things translate into you taking her for granted. Is it possible that she meant something else?

Being good at communication is one thing, getting another person to listen is something different. That often takes us actively listening to that person. We have to hear what they are trying to convey and not just the words used.

Her telling you that you that she knew you were angry probably wasn't really as much about you being angry as her worrying about how you felt or might react. It is the underlying feelings that need to be addressed.

When my x would tell me things like that, and I would tell her that she was wrong, I was not addressing the real issue. I was only addressing the words. Her emotions are what I should have addressed. Those were valid even if her words were not.

Make sense?

[DeltaBravo]

I'm not quite sure how those two things translate into you taking her for granted. Is it possible that she meant something else?

Being good at communication is one thing, getting another person to listen is something different. That often takes us actively listening to that person. We have to hear what they are trying to convey and not just the words used.

Her telling you that you that she knew you were angry probably wasn't really as much about you being angry as her worrying about how you felt or might react. It is the underlying feelings that need to be addressed.

When my x would tell me things like that, and I would tell her that she was wrong, I was not addressing the real issue. I was only addressing the words. Her emotions are what I should have addressed. Those were valid even if her words were not.

Make sense?

Hello Meili.
Thanks for your answer.

You are right.
I was reading about active listening.

Basically she meant I think that I was taking more time to move forward than she wanted.

I was always thinking why this why that. I realise logic place no game in this case. Reading emotions should be where i should be focusing. Context instead of content.

How many of wish they knew these skills before hand.
Maybe is not too late and i get my chance.
I will study even harder.

The interesting thing she said on last phonecall was even though i blocked you you have not changed you are so selfish thinking about your self. ( I always put her needs above mine ). Makes me think:

Did she mean she blocked me as a way for her to change me? Lesson , punishment ?

Thanks Meili you have helped me enormously and the other members

[DeltaBravo]

Hello Everyone once again.

This forum has opened my eyes about everything related to BPD.

I wanted to update you with my thoughts and possible receive some advice.

My fiancé who has shut me down still holds our engagement ring.

I feel there is a meaning for this so I was wondering how can I word an email to her ( even though I am blocked / Maybe make a new address ) to say it to her the following.

I will not accept the break up unless she meets to give the ring back. To any guy out there who has proposed a woman you very well know is not about the value of the ring but the promise and words we had attached to it. I need to say it in a way that she won't feel offended but understand my boundary that I cannot simply let a 3 year relationship close to marriage end with texts from her side saying it over and then blocking me everywhere.

For any woman out there BPD or not I am pretty sure they know if they return the ring to the fiancé the guy is gone forever? In my case I would do so.

I am not trying to manipulate her into seeing me but I want to set a boundary that if she is truly done as she says then she needs to do the right thing for both of us.

Can I please get some ideas. Timing is very critical I am very thankful in advance to whoever contributes.

[Jack_50]

Man, you have a piece of work on your hands.

Here is my personal opinion about your situation.

She is on the edge in life.  She does not have a real father who guides her in life, and has all these bad examples of marriage at home : Mother seeing another married man, brother with a failed marriage.  No wonder she sees marriage as a huge risk, and possibly even regards it as a trap.

Hence her extreme negative stance towards you : She feels you are trying to push her into marriage.

From her reaction to your letter to her mother, I read the following :
She desperately wants you to leave her mother out of this, because it was a lie that her mother did not approve of you.  It was just a manufactured obstacle for you to get discouraged in pursuing her.  Same for the apartment : She wanted to make it impossible for you to succeed, hence the condition.  Also, her turnaround about the damaged place is just her using any possible option to find something to put the blame on you for this not working out, to absolve herself of any guilt in this matter.

The phone conversation was another example of how she tries to paint you black at all costs.

I see a lot of manipulation on her part, and I do not think that she has the right principles to build up a happy relationship in life.

I agree fully on the boundary for getting the ring back; let us know how it goes.

My 2 cents,

Jack

[Meili]

I would venture a guess that most, if not all, of us wish that we knew this stuff before DB. It's hard though, because most of it is counter-intuitive in that it goes against what we've been told for most of our lives. The good news is that we can learn new things and have new tools at our disposal.

As far as her comment about your not changing, it's hard to know why she said it. Perhaps she was projecting (a defense mechanism, operating unconsciously, in which what is emotionally unacceptable in the self is unconsciously rejected and attributed (projected) to others) or splitting (a polarization of good feelings and bad feelings, of love and hate). You can read more about those another behaviors of a pwBPD here.

Do any of the behaviors in the link seem to fit?

[DeltaBravo]

Man, you have a piece of work on your hands.

Here is my personal opinion about your situation.

She is on the edge in life.  She does not have a real father who guides her in life, and has all these bad examples of marriage at home : Mother seeing another married man, brother with a failed marriage.  No wonder she sees marriage as a huge risk, and possibly even regards it as a trap.

Hello Jack,

Thank you for responding and sorry for replying late.
I have been in a mess lately. It comes in waves.
I really appreciate your insight and i find it quite possible to be the case.
Interestingly she was the one to push the marriage agenda. Always saying I just see her as a partner and I am not serious about her. At some point she basically said she would stop seeing me if i do not finally propose.

Call me naive but I had no idea of what was coming and how she played her cards at the end and frankly quite surprised she did not contact from her side yet.

Everyone seems to say that they have fear of abandonment and at some point they will try to recycle. I wonder why then in the 3 years she never tried to plead to come back.

The fact also that she is being medicated with benzodiazepines makes things even more complicated.

Regarding the ring I find it very hard in setting the boundary in a way that it will not be confrontational. I just want a peaceful conversation as I value her a lot as a person and would be happy to simply have her in my life even if she is not my fiance anymore.

[DeltaBravo]

I would venture a guess that most, if not all, of us wish that we knew this stuff before DB. It's hard though, because most of it is counter-intuitive in that it goes against what we've been told for most of our lives. The good news is that we can learn new things and have new tools at our disposal.

As far as her comment about your not changing, it's hard to know why she said it. Perhaps she was projecting (a defense mechanism, operating unconsciously, in which what is emotionally unacceptable in the self is unconsciously rejected and attributed (projected) to others) or splitting (a polarization of good feelings and bad feelings, of love and hate). You can read more about those another behaviors of a pwBPD here.

Do any of the behaviors in the link seem to fit?

Hello Meili,

Thanks so much for your response. I really appreciate your continued support.
Projection and splitting have been constant behaviours. Very visible in the times that she was against me.

The more I read into BPD materials the more I get to see what I was doing wrong.
I have shown her 2 times in 3 years a moment of weakness and they were both the times that lead to a break. First one was when I had to go back home for family emergency. The other one was during our search for housing.

As I read in some of the materials BPD loved ones need someone who is very strong and empathetic constantly. I failed twice on the first part. I was validating her but not in the way taught in the lessons here. She was always saying you are not listening. You are only caring about yourself. I used logic instead trying to cater for her emotions. But how could I know she is uBPD when she possibly does not know herself or knows but did not tell me?

It seems they have their own truth and we have our own truth but who are we to say our truth is better than theirs.

Feels like I was trying to battle cancer with flu medicine.

I think this forum and the knowledge acquired here is a bit like the Matrix blue pill red pill paradox.

[Meili]

That is really good insight DB.

It is really hard when doing a postmortem on the relationship to discover all that could have been done differently. For a lot of people, it is difficult to understand their role in the relationship. But, it is a necessary step in learning how to handle any relationship differently in the future.

A lot of members come here wanting to save a relationship that has failed, but don't take the time to understand their part. You are serving yourself well to look at that. The past is the past and we cannot change it, but we can act differently in the future.

Can you think of ways that you might be able to demonstrate to her, indirectly and through actions, that you are a place of safety and strength for her?