I'm considering going NC with my ex again

[RomanticFool]

Now that the whole suicide thing has been taken off the table and my wife and I are making good progress towards rekindling our sex life (There was a very positive development today which has made me feel very optimistic), I am now thinking that perhaps it is time for me to break contact with my ex again. I won't say for my wife's sake because that seems a little late in the day to make that gesture, but really for my own. I think I have been kidding myself that I can be friends with her. She mentioned she was coming to my home town today with her husband and it triggered a terrible resentment in me.

I haven't told me ex of my feelings nor has she contacted me for the last two days, which serves to underline she will do whatever is right for her. Therefore I feel I should do likewise. I don't want to feel like this any longer. I am seriously considering going full NC like I tried to do earlier this year with the provisio that if she starts talking about suicide again I would have to stay NC. At the risk of attracting some tough feedback I may find difficult to hear, I need to know if this is a good idea for the future of my marriage and my sanity.

[isilme]

YES!   

[Skip]

I haven't told me ex of my feelings nor has she contacted me for the last two days, which serves to underline she will do whatever is right for her. Therefore I feel I should do likewise. I don't want to feel like this any longer. I am seriously considering going full NC like I tried to do earlier this year with the provisio that if she starts talking about suicide again I would have to stay NC. At the risk of attracting some tough feedback I may find difficult to hear, I need to know if this is a good idea for the future of my marriage and my sanity.

Going away is a good idea.

Starting at NC / abandonment drama is not. You'll get juiced. She'll get juiced. There's no win in this.

I would just wait for her to contact you (via text) and give her polite but minimal responses. Wait before responding. Vacate the conversation before she does.

This won't go on long. Things will wind down and end.

[pearlsw]

I think I have been kidding myself that I can be friends with her. She mentioned she was coming to my home town today with her husband and it triggered a terrible resentment in me.

I haven't told me ex of my feelings nor has she contacted me for the last two days, which serves to underline she will do whatever is right for her. Therefore I feel I should do likewise. I don't want to feel like this any longer. I am seriously considering going full NC like I tried to do earlier this year with the provisio that if she starts talking about suicide again I would have to stay NC. At the risk of attracting some tough feedback I may find difficult to hear, I need to know if this is a good idea for the future of my marriage and my sanity.

Huh. But it sounds like you are trying to reengage her a bit with this proviso thing? You want NC, but if she starts talking about suicide it would stay NC. That is a bit unclear. Hmmm.

I would echo the idea, painful as it is to face, that for the sake of your sanity NC is best. It is the best way to take the sting out of this. I feel for ya. It is a loss, but with time you will likely find it makes you feel much better and you will become more clear about it. You will one day wonder how you let yourself suffer for so long over it. It just takes time... .and there is no way to say how much. There are no shortcuts.

Keep focusing on your wife and EVERYTHING you can possibly do to make that better. Good luck man!

[RomanticFool]

Going away is a good idea.

Starting at NC / abandonment drama is not. You'll get juiced. She'll get juiced. There's no win in this.

This is why I posted on here, because I know this is really the answer. I don't want to hurt her and I don't want to be hurt either. She is so good at keeping her distance when she feels she needs to (is that BPD or just a stoic woman?) and I have been rubbish at it.

There has always been an imbalance and every time I have tried to address it in the past I have been outmanoeuvred by her madness. It's like playing chess with a despot. What I know now is that she doesn't mean to be, she is just being true to her pathology. I want to let this go with love but I have to let it go because if I don't we are going to keep doing this Groundhog Day thing. It cannot go on.

I would just wait for her to contact you (via text) and give her polite but minimal responses. Wait before responding. Vacate the conversation before she does.

Yes, I think this is correct. She may never stop though. For some reason she wants me in her life. She hanging on so tightly even though we are never going to see each other. This is what I can never understand with BPD. How is that connection enough? I suppose if it keeps her happy from a safe distance then I shouldn't quibble. It's just that I need to look after my own head.

This won't go on long. Things will wind down and end.

I really hope you are right.

[RomanticFool]

Huh. But it sounds like you are trying to reengage her a bit with this proviso thing? You want NC, but if she starts talking about suicide it would stay NC. That is a bit unclear. Hmmm.

It's just the way I phrased it. Earlier this year I tried to go NC and she came back into my life with the news that she had tried to kill herself, so I chose to support her. My feeling was now that she is past that crisis, I could try to go NC again but this time if she threatened suicide then stay away. The problem with that is I care too much.

I would echo the idea, painful as it is to face, that for the sake of your sanity NC is best. It is the best way to take the sting out of this. I feel for ya. It is a loss, but with time you will likely find it makes you feel much better and you will become more clear about it. You will one day wonder how you let yourself suffer for so long over it. It just takes time... .and there is no way to say how much. There are no shortcuts.

I think Skip's suggestion of not throwing fuel on the fire by abandoning her with all the ensuing drama is the only real choice I have. I need radical acceptance about her not letting go. I still need to let go myself. Therein is the dilemma. She is the weak and mentally ill person, I am the strong one (in theory). I have reluctantly come to the conclusion since writing this post that it is best for my r/s with my wife not to create further drama with the ex.

You are right about one day I will wonder how I got myself into this mess. I got over her once before when I was head over heels with her. Somehow age and the permanent nature of being married has meant that the only outlet to get over the ex is to focus on my marriage, which I should have been doing all along. It would have made my life much easier that's for sure.

Keep focusing on your wife and EVERYTHING you can possibly do to make that better. Good luck man!

Thanks. It's hopefully heading in the right direction now. My wife told me how much she loves me tonight. That's what I need to hold onto.

[pearlsw]

Hi Romantic Fool,

That's nice to hear! That your wife told you how much she loves you, that's great. I know how hard it can be to let go of someone... .all kinds of things remind you of them and they are somehow there in all the gaps, holes, edges. But just keep moving forward in time.

I was sorry to hear about your health/sexual issues. I know that piece is hard to talk about. There are so many ways to have intimacy and connection. I hope you can find some. Have you had a direct discussion about sex with your wife, about rekindling that or just starting that up? Is that something you are hoping for?

Wishing you peace in your heart!

[formflier]

If I can be so bold to rephrase Skips idea (which I agree with). 

I think removing the contact or NC thing would be good for your thinking. 

1.  You obviously are going to have contact with her
2.  Going NC seems to trigger lots of stuff
3.  She is going to keep reaching out


So, let's change the question.  "What kind of contact should I be having with her?"  Perhaps some examples are in order.  Perhaps you are deliberate about reducing content over the next few weeks to the point where  yes you respond "in a day or two" to her texts, but there is really nothing there "for her".

Eventually the relationship will fade away...

Thoughts?

FF

[Skip]

So, let's change the question.  "What kind of contact should I be having with her?"  Perhaps some examples are in order. 

This is good, FF. 

[RomanticFool]

I think removing the contact or NC thing would be good for your thinking.  

1.  You obviously are going to have contact with her
2.  Going NC seems to trigger lots of stuff
3.  She is going to keep reaching out

I read this today and I thought that this woman is simply holding me emotional hostage. She has always done exactly what she wants to and when we were in the throes of what I thought was an intense emotional r/s she was still constantly running away from me. Now I know about BPD and I understand and respect her pathology, I actually think that I was on the right lines earlier this year. The only possible solution for me in my current predicament is to let her go, otherwise we will continue this dance for years to come and I will never be fully free of this r/s.

So, let's change the question.  "What kind of contact should I be having with her?"  Perhaps some examples are in order.  Perhaps you are deliberate about reducing content over the next few weeks to the point where  yes you respond "in a day or two" to her texts, but there is really nothing there "for her".

Eventually the relationship will fade away...

I no longer want any kind of r/s with her. It has been disastrous for my emotional life (and hers) and I cannot be in contact with a woman I still have feelings for. It just doesn't work. So today I decided to put my r/s with my wife first for once. After all, my ex has constantly put her family and her husband first in terms of not making a commitment to me and it is time I did the same. There has been no rancour and no argument but she told me on Tuesday that she was coming to my home town with her husband without a thought for how that might affect me. I didn't need to know that. So to protect my own feelings and to put my r/s with my wife first,  I have reluctantly decided to take steps towards NC.

The first step of that has been to unfriend her from FB, which I did today. If and when she contacts me I intend to explain why and I will also tell her that I no longer want to talk on WhatsApp. This may cause a reaction but I now believe that anything less than this is holding out hope of a r/s and constantly rekindling a love I have tried to let die.

I will also say this. If she comes back with a suicide threat (which I sincerely hope she does not) then I am going to have to stick to my guns. I make no judgement about whether that suicide threat would be manipulative or not, but I will simply tell her that she needs to talk to her husband, family and her doctor.

I know this seems like an inadvisable thing to do and I have asked myself if I am doing it in retaliation regarding her coming to my home town. The answer is that I am doing it to give myself the best possible chance to have a r/s with my wife. While the third leg of the chair is in my life, it is never going to be possible. I know that now. She is never going to let me to go completely, but will continue to cast me away and reel me back in emotionally whenever it suits her - if I allow it. I can no longer allow it. I know this is the right thing for me to do now for the sake of my r/s with my wife. I know it is fraught with risk but I now need to devote myself to my wife completely with no distractions on the side. I will try to do it with empathy and understanding but it has got to be done. I cannot be friends with a woman I still care for in the wrong way.

[formflier]

How does "explaining" something to another person (another relationship) give a separate relationship a better chance.
 
Especially when you say you want NC... especially when you would have to break NC to "explain".

If you no longer want the relationship with the ex... stop "doing" the relationship.

Stop the dance

My guess is... and yes... it is a guess.  That you have unfriended her before and that it likely "got a reaction".

My guess is that you have "explained" things to her before... .and it got a reaction.

I think you should stop "making relationship moves"... .take a break for a couple weeks, see how you feel.

Trust that she has a husband she can travel with... .to your hometown, to the doctor, to the store ... .to... .wherever.

I would also assume she will notice facebook and will "react".    No need for you to respond.

FF

[Skip]

The first step of that has been to unfriend her from FB, which I did today. If and when she contacts me... .

You know, and I know you know, you do this to get her to react. She's not being responsive to you, so you push her buttons. You have cycled through this many times. How many times have you "unfriended" her? This year? It's drama making.

If and when she contacts me I intend to explain why and I will also tell her that I no longer want to talk on WhatsApp. This may cause a reaction but I now believe that anything less than this is holding out hope of a r/s and constantly rekindling a love I have tried to let die.

If you need to pull the plug and sever contact, then just do it wit character.

Dear RFGF, This affair has really been detrimental to my marriage and I am making a commitment to my wife to cease communications with you. This is about her - not a response to anything you have done. I know you understand the dilemma I face. You face much the same in your own life. I greatly appreciate the time we had together and I want you to know I will always have a fond memories of you. With my best wishes, RF.

She will likely respond and let it go without an answer.

The real question, RF, is your intent here. Are you wanting to let go (which is good)? Or are you wanting to push her emotional abandonment button so that she suffers and reacts and you will get a response and attention you feel you need from her (which is manipulative and mean)?

[RomanticFool]

in the nicest possible way, I'm not much concerned with what anybody else thinks to be frank. In the past I have done it for a reaction, but now I am doing it for my own sanity. Writing her a letter would probably have a worse effect than unfriending her on FB and would guarantee a reply. I don't want her to reply. I have not been in contact with her since Tuesday and there has been no argument. I am not annoyed or upset with her - she is just on my mind constantly and I want it to stop.

So ridicule away but I did the decent thing and supported her through her difficulties at a time when I was determined to end this r/s. I think that showed compassion. The only reason why we have had this FB unfriending and refriending is because I have been trying to move away from her and she doesn't want to let me go. Any right thinking person would have let this go years ago and understood that it is not a r/s. As much as I cared for her I have tried my best to walk away and it hasn't happened. Now I am taking a more radical approach.

I won't be coming back on here. As far as I am concerned you are seeing it all from a pwBPD's point of view, perhaps because a number of you suffer from it also, I don't know. I am doing what is good for my wife and my r/ s now and it is not open for discussion or ridicule any longer. On a personal note they way you deal with me is upsetting when I am struggling and doing my best to find my own reasons for carrying on. This r/s devastated me and I am doing my best to pick up the pieces and I do not appreciate being condescended to and compared with a 14 year old girl. I am trying to do my best and now I will do what's best for me and not for my ex. The time has come to be selfish.

So thank you all for your support during an unbearably difficult time. Romantic Fool out.

[Skip]

The only reason why we have had this FB unfriending and refriending is because I have been trying to move away from her and she doesn't want to let me go. Any right thinking person would have let this go years ago and understood that it is not a r/s.

Isn't this recreating the emotional drama that brought you here?

No one is questioning that you end this relationship - I think everyone thinks that is the best thing for your family and for hers, and for you.

The only thing being brought to your attention is the "method".  There is a long history of push/pull and you doing things that will push her buttons to get her to react.  That said, no one is giving her a free pass.  She is also cheating on her husband and she sends a lot of mixed signals and does frustrating things like abandon text conversations before they are over. She is taker - not a giver.

If you are committed to the NC / ghosting thing, then do it. Block her on Facebook - she wont even see your public page and you won't see her. Block her on your phone. Block her on whatapp. Throw her contact information away.

If you want to do this the way a psychologist would advise you, send a respectable note (your in a LDR, so face to face is not practical).

The only thing I are suggesting is to not push her buttons to drive her to respond so you can then tell her why you are unhappy with the hope that she will apologize and be more responsive to your needs. This is dysfunctional.

Why?

Because it will create a lot of emotional turmoil for you and drive her to react which will enact  a FOG reaction in you (fear, obligation, or guilt)

But if you want that, then you are on the right track. Just be self-aware enough to see it what it is.

[RomanticFool]

Because this will create a lot of emotional turmoil for both of you (as it has before).

But if you want that, then you are on the right track. Just be self-aware enough to see it what it is.

You think I want emotional turmoil? I've had enough of it. I've been in it constantly for years around her. She has behaved like a psychopath at times, absolutely no regard for my well-being or feelings whatsoever. The issue is not just cheating on her husband but the emotional devastation she has caused in my life. I was free of her for years and she came back pretending to be something important in my life and did the same damn thing she always did and I let her in because I loved her. I should have just told her to f@ck off and leave me alone. I am always aghast at my ex's capacity to switch on and off like a tap when it suits her. I do not respect anybody that treats a person in this manner. Whatever the rights and wrongs of my situation, I loved her with a whole heart and all I ever wanted was a loving r/s with her. I feel awful that my wife has been collateral in a now 15 year drama masquerading as love. I intend to change it now once and for all. It is not a game that a kid plays. It is real life and it is my life.

I am sick of emotional turmoil and I deserve more than that from life. So does my wife. She deserves my full attention.

[RomanticFool]

Yesterday was an emotionally difficult day for me. I intend to go on holiday and take a break from things for a while. I just want to address a couple of things before I go.

The real question, RF, is your intent here. Are you wanting to let go (which is good)? Or are you wanting to push her emotional abandonment button so that she suffers and reacts and you will get a response and attention you feel you need from her (which is manipulative and mean)?

I never want her to suffer. What I have always sought is some kind of acknowledgement of the hell I consider she has put me through. The fact is I have been confused by her for many years because what I am really trying to deal with here are feelings of unrequited love - from a woman who professed to love me.

One thing I am now certain about is that she does not love me and is very likely not capable of loving anybody. She will always do what is best for her and she will always let me down. We had a brief period of perhaps a year or so where she was professing love regularly but that has long been in the past. She tries to maintain the closeness of the r/s without giving anything to it. As you said:

There is a long history of push/pull and you doing things that will push her buttons to get her to react.  That said, no one is giving her a free pass.  She is also cheating on her husband and she sends a lot of mixed signals and does frustrating things like abandon text conversations before they are over. She is taker - not a giver.

She has taken every last drop of love I have to give and then run away. That is the best way I can describe the experience of being in love with her. It has left me feeling angry and empty. Bereft of love I thought I had, but with a little knowledge and understanding, I now realise that love was an impossibility. This is not just about a married woman who fell in love and then ended a r/s with a man for the sake of her family. It is about a woman who has behaved as if she was in a love r/s, turned her back constantly on that love and then continuously returned for more when it suited her. An emotional user.

This has been my experience of being in love with a woman I believe has BPD. The lack of empathy towards me, the lack of care and consideration for my feelings has turned me hostile and in turn made the r/s toxic. I recognised this once in my life and walked away. However, trying to walk away from and then being constantly dragged back by a woman I have adored makes this a terrible emotional agony.  I have never behaved in this manner with a girlfriend before. This is a rare and special case. It feels like the love of my life turned out to be hurtful and self centred in the extreme. In reaction I have behaved in kind.

I am explaining this emotional complexity in detail because I don't want it simplified as I'm simply trying to get a reaction or I'm mean. First and foremost I have been in pain. I have been to a considerable emotional depth and felt a kind of hopelessness I have never experienced. It has been life changing and profound. Hence my presence here.

She has not responded to my FB deletion and it is my sincere hope that she is finally as fed up with the whole thing as I am. Whatever is going on with her is not my concern. I am going NC and intend to stick with it until I have recovered from what is a devastating and painful affliction.

Time to move forward and live the life I should have been living.

[babyducks]

Hi RF,

What I have always sought is some kind of acknowledgement of the hell I consider she has put me through.

I am sorry you are hurting.   I sincerely am.   When I came staggering out of the tail end of my relationship I was broken in ways I can't begin to describe to you.   In ways I am only now beginning to unravel.   Somewhere on this site is says 'it takes a lot to be in relationship with a person with BPD and not be damaged by it'.   Looking back I was (slightly) damaged going in and literally on my butt coming out.

The fact is I have been confused by her for many years because what I am really trying to deal with here are feelings of unrequited love - from a woman who professed to love me.

One thing I am now certain about is that she does not love me and is very likely not capable of loving anybody.

It took me a long time to ~get~  that the relationship I thought I was having,  the one I wanted to have, was not actually what was going on.   That multiple mental illnesses were at play.   When I say ~get~ I mean truly accepting the distortions that are part and parcel of being in a mentally disturbed relationship.   Accepting the distortions meant letting go of hope, hope for a better relationship,   letting go of hurt,  the hurt of dreams broken and a future dashed, letting go of deeply held convictions,  the deeply held convictions of 'if only XYZ'.   Now I think that if XYZ than something else would have gone wrong in the relationship because that's how a relationship built on distortions fail.

It's quite an effort to recover from a failed relationship like these.   It's quite an effort to fix the damage I brought to the relationship and the damage I obtained in the relationship.    It take quite a lot of time.    Turning off contact doesn't stop the hurt or repair the wounds.   

I will tell you that for me there was a time where I avoided contact with my EX.   it was emotionally safer for me.   I couldn't recover from the wounds I had while I continued to injure myself.   

I will also tell you that my Ex never stopped pushing on my boundaries.   She is still, often, in the parking lot across street.   I occasionally get 'accidental' emails,  where she will then tell me 'oh I didn't mean to send that to you."

I am going NC and intend to stick with it until I have recovered from what is a devastating and painful affliction.

No Contact can buy you some time, and some breathing space to let feelings settle.   It will provide some immediate relief.   It won't, in my experience, generate recovery, in and by itself.  There has to be a plan B.    From what you describe it's like she will attempt to contact you, that's typically how the relationship worked between you.   If you are vigorous in blocking you can make that more difficult.    For me, I never blocked.  I am often in public places as part of my community service work and my ex is often there in the audience.  Clearly I can't block that.

What I have learned is I can't control this person or dictate how they behave or what they say, but I can control my response and how I feel about it.

That involves taking the space and quiet provided by no contact and looking deeper.  Deeper into myself.    And yes part of that looking deeper meant getting the recognition of and the validation for the wounds this relationship left me with.   Not easy.   Not quick.   Not simple.   

As something to consider I would invite you to think about what plan B is.    Not plan B of what to do when she makes contact.   More the Plan B of how you recover, how do you change your response, how do you accept your feelings?

my two cents.

'ducks

[RomanticFool]

Thanks Ducks,

Can't tell you how much I need a soft voice at the moment. I'm all for tough love and I accept that for the growth it can bring, but I have also realised that I have been hurt deeply by the wounds of this r/s. The thing is my ex is always going to be hurting. Her depression and personality are such that the inner void will always be there for her, the existential yearning, the sense that the world is against her and betrayal is in every corner. I've never been like that. Having to tap into a world view like that has been damaging. On top of all of that I've had to accept for the last 6 months that she was dangerously ill and I put my true feelings on hold to be supportive for her. I thought I had heeled enough to be friends with her but when she felt the need to tell me on Tuesday that she was coming to my home town with her husband, it felt like a mockery (a feeling I have often had with her) of all my previous good intentions. I don't think she means any of it. I think she was like an excited child having a day out. She just didn't think that it would possibly have any effect on me. In fact when I stopped contacting her on Tuesday she just said 'I can tell you're pissed off.' That was the last of several last straws. I cannot deal with my own grief while she is still in my life. That is what has brought me to this current position. It came on me all of a sudden and it is now overwhelming and is probably the healthiest thing I have done since we started up again. There is no malice in it (which I could never honestly say in the past) but just a desire to be free from pain.

Somewhere on this site is says 'it takes a lot to be in relationship with a person with BPD and not be damaged by it'.   Looking back I was (slightly) damaged going in and literally on my butt coming out.

I don't understand the true nature of my co-dependency towards her. I know what it is but I don't know why. I have thought myself to be NPD or BPD but I am not sure either of those is really the case. I just think I fell in love with the wrong woman. However, I do have a history to going after women who reject me. It was pointed out to me on here that this is also a fear of intimacy.

As something to consider I would invite you to think about what plan B is.    Not plan B of what to do when she makes contact.   More the Plan B of how you recover, how do you change your response, how do you accept your feelings?

If I ever get the time and financial stability I will try therapy as my plan B. The worst part of this whole scenario has been having to keep it all to myself. I haven't exactly done that as I am in AA and I do have friends who have listened to my woes about this woman. I'm all tapped out with all of them. Nobody can help a man who keeps sticking his fingers in the socket. I need to learn what is really at the root of this whole set of behaviours and why I think a woman who has treated me like her worst enemy at times is actually the love of my life. It's masochistic and damaging. My instinct is always to push her away. Coming on here made me take a different approach for a while but ultimately here I am again back at square one. I have effectively told her to go forth and multiply. It may have taken 9 months to do it but I have done exactly the thing I have always thought I should do. And yet, I say I love her. In my defence it is hard to keep letting a person into your life when you know they are going to kick you in the same place time and again. I just feel enough is enough.

It must be hard for you having to see your ex. I am bad enough knowing she exists and her having access to my WhatsApp. I am deciding whether to block her on there. While there is no reaction to FB then I will let sleeping dogs lie and do nothing.

My deep suspicion is actually that she has discovered another victim. I have been encouraged not to think along those lines, however, it is not unheard of among pwBPD. If that is the case then I may never hear from her again - or until that goes wrong.

All I want is my peace of mind back.

[babyducks]

I'm all for tough love and I accept that for the growth it can bring,

Hi RF,   

I can't say tough love works for me.   My ears work better when I am comfortable and relaxed.   I hear things better then.

... .but when she felt the need to tell me on Tuesday that she was coming to my home town with her husband, it felt like a mockery (a feeling I have often had with her) of all my previous good intentions. I don't think she means any of it. I think she was like an excited child having a day out. She just didn't think that it would possibly have any effect on me. In fact when I stopped contacting her on Tuesday she just said 'I can tell you're pissed off.' That was the last of several last straws. I cannot deal with my own grief while she is still in my life. That is what has brought me to this current position.

I absolutely see your point.    She did something.   You felt mocked and like your feelings have been disregarded.   You reacted.      Feelings are neither right or wrong, feelings just are.   You feel what you feel.    I see the connection between her action and your reaction.  I think others in this thread see the connection between her action and your reaction.    Hence part of the concern.    Your reaction means you are still connected to her.   Emotionally connected.   And that's concerning, don't you think?

You've explained a long history between the two of you that can be boiled down to  someone acted and the other reacted.    It's a reasonable question to ask what is different this time.   I am happy to hear there is no malice in your action.   That good.   

Here is the thing that I've observed.   Some of us share children with our pwBPD,  other's job locations, some of us have pwBPD in our immediate family.  Removing contact is not as simple then.   Breaking the enmeshment goes beyond physical proximity.    Does that makes sense?

It's a pretty complicated question,  how does one end an enmeshment.    Finding a way to take a step backward, compassionately and carefully, can help.     Taking a step backward can also be what FormFlier described as another step in the dance.  She pushes, you push, you pull, she pushes.    Then it's just dancing.   

All I want is my peace of mind back.

I can understand this.   that makes sense to me.    here are my suggestions:

first take all the thinking about her, her depression, her personality,  her ability to give and put it in a big bucket.   take your toe and nudge that bucket under your desk.   trust me, it will still be there when you are ready to take it out and look at it.

the road to peace of mind doesn't go through her or understanding her stuff.   

second, recognize when you are being driven by emotional reactivity.    there are times and places where I am particularly reactive to my Ex.    Usually that's an expression of my emotion more than her behavior.    In other words, it's about me, not her.    My emotions are mine to take care of.    If you need to grieve, that's a good thing to recognize.    How do you grieve?    How do you express that?

third, resist the urge to catastrophize.   Yes bad things happened during this r/s.   they did during mine too.    I've never been as devastated by a relationship.    But I am not dead yet and I don't know what I may be like in 3 months time,   3 years time... .whatever.   fight back against the obsessive thinking.    find thought stopping techniques.   find a way to disconnect from your feelings and being a curious but casual observer too them.   

and last, start small.   we have our own version of black and white thinking, those of us who land here.   success will be in finding small shades of gray.   

'ducks

[RomanticFool]

Hi ducks,

I can't say tough love works for me.   My ears work better when I am comfortable and relaxed.   I hear things better then.

Same for me I think. When people talk to me in such a way as to provoke me, I feel humiliated, undermined and angry. I need to be emotionally calm to be receptive also.

I see the connection between her action and your reaction.  I think others in this thread see the connection between her action and your reaction.

It has been suggested to me on here that my emotional reaction towards my ex is toxic when I am aroused. The problem is I feel such a sense of indignation at her behaviour. It has been further clouded by the moral debate around having an affair and this takes me further away from the central issue of trying to come to terms with my ex's behaviour and now, once again, loss.

If I could take my own emotions out of the equation the answer to the problem is simple. Move on and don't engage. I have talked on here until I am blue in the face about my intentions and desire to reengage with my wife. The problem is my emotional life pertaining to my ex is a powerful and destructive force. Every time she does something that I consider unreasonable, hurtful or lacking in empathy, the old volatility rises in me again and I am right back to square one.

I know the answer is to have NC. I tried it earlier on this year and then her mental state deteriorated and the whole suicide question came up. It's like we say in AA, I am powerless over people, places and things and she is the number one on the list of things I am powerless over. I believe that for me, the only way to heal is to stay away from her.

Here is the thing that I've observed.   Some of us share children with our pwBPD,  other's job locations, some of us have pwBPD in our immediate family.  Removing contact is not as simple then.   Breaking the enmeshment goes beyond physical proximity.    :)oes that makes sense?

It's a pretty complicated question,  how does one end an enmeshment.    Finding a way to take a step backward, compassionately and carefully, can help.     Taking a step backward can also be what FormFlier described as another step in the dance.  She pushes, you push, you pull, she pushes.    Then it's just dancing.    

I know NC is not an option for everybody but for me in this situation it is not only an option, but a necessity.

resist the urge to catastrophize.   Yes bad things happened during this r/s.   they did during mine too.    I've never been as devastated by a relationship.    But I am not dead yet and I don't know what I may be like in 3 months time,   3 years time... .whatever.   fight back against the obsessive thinking.    find thought stopping techniques.   find a way to disconnect from your feelings and being a curious but casual observer too them.

I was just about to describe my r/s as a pair of star crossed lovers because that is how it feels. However, I take your point about toning down the language but nevertheless she has an effect on me that I find difficult to control. I certainly can seldom be rational around her.

God knows I have tried to fight back against obsessive thinking. I have been successful in getting over this woman once before and I suspect that with a healthy bit of distance in the form of NC, the switch may just flick and it will lose all the power it has over me.

recognize when you are being driven by emotional reactivity.    there are times and places where I am particularly reactive to my Ex.    Usually that's an expression of my emotion more than her behavior.    In other words, it's about me, not her.    My emotions are mine to take care of.    If you need to grieve, that's a good thing to recognize.    How do you grieve?    How do you express that?

The problem I have is that I constantly imagine her sleeping with other men. I have never had any proof one way or the other but I do know for certain that one time she went to a gig with another man during her drinking days and swore blind that she never slept with him. I simply don't believe her and everything I have read about BPD has made me even more suspicious. One of my major triggers is jealousy fuelled by distrust. The only way I am going to get over this is by not knowing what she is doing and not talking to her. Then my obsessive mind can take a rest.

You've explained a long history between the two of you that can be boiled down to  someone acted and the other reacted.    It's a reasonable question to ask what is different this time.   I am happy to hear there is no malice in your action.   That good.

What is different is that I know nothing is going to change until I am free of her. I have stopped second guessing how she feels about me or anything else because I have a lack of trust in her and I just think I am going to come up with worst case scenario every time. She has not even been diagnosed with BPD but I think trust is something easily broken and not soon mended. Ironically, she told me that she doesn't trust me regarding her feelings because I walked away from her. She has no conception or interest in the agony I have felt over this r/s. That is the biggest frustration for me.

I have read on this site about people obsessed with the idea of whether they were loved, or constantly trying to get their BPD partners to understand the agony  they have put them through. In that respect I am typical of the sufferers on this site and this unresolved conundrum is what is triggering everything for me. If she is seeing other people then I would feel vindicated in my responses, if she isn't and simply finds me impossible and constantly triggering her own abandonment issues then she is entitled to feel disillusioned with me too. That's why I don't really feel malice towards her because I no longer know what the objective truth of this situation is. I know she has been unreasonable, selfish and disinterested in the emotional life behind a r/s but I understand her because of her pathology. The trouble is she will never understand me. That is also another trigger.

and last, start small.   we have our own version of black and white thinking, those of us who land here.   success will be in finding small shades of gray.

I think I have just illustrated above that there are shades of grey in my feelings. While my emotions are volatile and my feelings deeply hurt by her actions, I cannot in all conscience blame her for my own part in this damaging r/s. That is partly because when all is said and done I still love her. What I am trying to make myself do is fall out of love. How on earth do you do that?

[RomanticFool]

ducks,

I also want to add that my previous post is negated really by the fact that the r/s is over anyway. I am now concentrating on my r/s with my wife and this week was really an emotional relapse caused by events.

In many ways it wasn't a real r/s because we are both married. I wasn't married when we first met and she walked away from any commitment to me back then and as far as I was concerned that was the end. Then she came back into my life and I let her in because I wasn't sleeping with my wife. I don't blame anybody for that except myself and the old adage 'never go back' is perhaps a lesson I should have embraced where my ex was concerned... .especially as I was married. So ultimately I am at fault but I did think that perhaps my ex had changed and was now the answer to my woes. More fool me... .

[babyducks]

that makes a lot of sense RF.    Yeah I have had a few emotional relapses of my own.   They kind of suck don't they.   

I too thought the relationship I had with my Ex Partner was going to be the one that "saved me."   Yeah I believed that she was the love of my life.  What I learned was that  inside me was an amazing amount of deep compassionate love.    and I made some mistakes about who I choose to share that with.   

I also learned why I thought I need a love to 'save me'.   I don't feel that way anymore.    which is kind of nice, and kind of sad all at once.    like letting go of a fantasy.

hang in there.