Really Struggling..

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I would still push for a yes or no answer.  I do realize that "yes, but... ." or "no, but... "... .that there is lots of stuff that matters in the "but" part.

I would be supportive of a continued relationship of some sort if the answer was "no"... .however I would push hard for you to take deliberate steps to "keep yourself healthy" and open to other relationships.

Proud of you for holding your boundary... .

FF

Here are “simple” yes/no answers... .

Q1: Yes
Q2: no
Q3: no

That is based on current circumstances.  I appreciate you recognizing that I’m holding my boundary.  It’s not easy.  I want to talk to her.  My grandfather is close to passing away and I know she would want to know and not sure what to do there.  If I do it I would want to do it for the right reasons.  She’s been there for all of my grandparents passing away in the last year.  I’m going to pray about it.

[MaroonLiquid]

I would still push for a yes or no answer.  I do realize that "yes, but... ." or "no, but... "... .that there is lots of stuff that matters in the "but" part.

I would be supportive of a continued relationship of some sort if the answer was "no"... .however I would push hard for you to take deliberate steps to "keep yourself healthy" and open to other relationships.

Proud of you for holding your boundary... .

FF

Here are “simple” yes/no answers... .

Q1: Yes
Q2: no
Q3: no

That is based on current circumstances.  I appreciate you recognizing that I’m holding my boundary.  It’s not easy.  I want to talk to her.  My grandfather is close to passing away and I know she would want to know and not sure what to do there.  If I do it I would want to do it for the right reasons.  She’s been there for all of my grandparents passing away in the last year.  I’m going to pray about it.

[Grey Kitty]

Anyway, my boundary isn’t really about her.  It is to protect me.  I told her I was taking a big step back because there was “someone else” according to her. 

Soo... .it sounds like you are waiting for her to reach out to you first as a way to protect yourself.

I'm with you on protecting yourself from her, but don't think that this (by itself) is going to be very effective.

If she does reach out to you again (eventually she will), get friendly, and then get flirty/sexy, will you reject her advances?

our r/s had gotten to the point where she pulls me back in to “get something from me” and then discards me.  It was also to the point where we would have sex and then a day or two after she would discard me.  It was to the point where I was feeling used.

I'd suggest that you consider refusing emotional intimacy too--at least not being vulnerable and sharing your thoughts/feelings with her; you might listen if she opens up to you.

Does this feel 'right' for you now? Have you thought about exactly what your limits are? (Perhaps a friendly hug is acceptable?)

My grandfather is close to passing away and I know she would want to know and not sure what to do there.  If I do it I would want to do it for the right reasons.  She’s been there for all of my grandparents passing away in the last year.  I’m going to pray about it.

My suggestion: Tell her about it, either now, or after, as you think she would appreciate based on her r/s with your grandfather. Not to ask her to support you emotionally as you deal with it. Pick somebody safer than her for that. 

[MaroonLiquid]

Soo... .it sounds like you are waiting for her to reach out to you first as a way to protect yourself.

I'm with you on protecting yourself from her, but don't think that this (by itself) is going to be very effective.

If she does reach out to you again (eventually she will), get friendly, and then get flirty/sexy, will you reject her advances?
I'd suggest that you consider refusing emotional intimacy too--at least not being vulnerable and sharing your thoughts/feelings with her; you might listen if she opens up to you.

Does this feel 'right' for you now? Have you thought about exactly what your limits are? (Perhaps a friendly hug is acceptable?)

I have thought about these things.  It will be difficult to reject her advances.  Not going to lie as I love intimacy with her.  But as long as she’s seeing other people I refuse to open myself up that way to her for several obvious reasons.  A hug is acceptable.  Question though.  Isn’t this a “grey rock” way of handling her and basically pushing her away for good?  I don’t want that.

My suggestion: Tell her about it, either now, or after, as you think she would appreciate based on her r/s with your grandfather. Not to ask her to support you emotionally as you deal with it. Pick somebody safer than her for that. 

I will tell her about it before as she was close to my grandparents.  She is actually very good at support and comfort when both my grandmothers died this year.  Why would I not open up to her about them?

[MaroonLiquid]

Thinking more about “rejecting her advances”.  Wouldn’t I validate her advances and let her know that I want to be intimate with her as well, but I won’t as long as she’s seeing other people and not in a r/s with me?  That’s using SET as well.

[MaroonLiquid]

Update:

So my ex contacted me this evening after 17 days because a mutual friend of ours past away.  I saw it on Facebook and she immediately texted me to let me know.  I responded and said, “I literally just saw that! I feel so bad for him!”  She responded, “Yeah me too.”  I then texted back and said, “I just found out last night that my grandfather is in hospice care.  He has deteriorated rapidly and it isn’t good.  Thankful that I got to spend that time with him recently!  How are you?”  She responded, “I’m sorry to hear that.  He is a great man.”  I said, “Thank you!  Yes he is.”  I left it at that.  She never mentioned how she was.    she always acts that way when she hasn’t talked to me in a while.  Like a punishment or something.  Funny how they do that repeatedly.  Thoughts?

[formflier]

 
Sorry for the loss you are experiencing... .times like that lead you to examine the other relationships and places in your life that you feel loss.     

I think you did "fine" in your interaction with her.  My one bit of advice would be to skip the "how are you".  Let her be the first to make that move... .perhaps you stay silent on it for an exchange or two.

Do you see how from a certain point of view that is you "pushing" for intimacy and it may "scare" her back a bit.

She lives in the push pull world.  My wife does to a much less extent.  Yep... it's manipulative as can be to use that to our advantage... .but honestly... .we have to be pragmatic about this.

So... .for me it looks like (ffw) "Boy I'm tired... .part of me says we should go to sleep, but part of me wants sex... "

FF says... .I'm tired too babe.  Let's snuggle and drift off to sleep.  in years past... .I would usually be pushing or jump at any chance for sex and closeness.  I've kinda flipped it where "most of the time" she is pursuing.

That being said... realize this is all "reading tea leaves"... .and we could be way off base.

FF

[MaroonLiquid]

Sorry for the loss you are experiencing... .times like that lead you to examine the other relationships and places in your life that you feel loss.     

I think you did "fine" in your interaction with her.  My one bit of advice would be to skip the "how are you".  Let her be the first to make that move... .perhaps you stay silent on it for an exchange or two.

Do you see how from a certain point of view that is you "pushing" for intimacy and it may "scare" her back a bit.

She lives in the push pull world.  My wife does to a much less extent.  Yep... it's manipulative as can be to use that to our advantage... .but honestly... .we have to be pragmatic about this.

So... .for me it looks like (ffw) "Boy I'm tired... .part of me says we should go to sleep, but part of me wants sex... "

FF says... .I'm tired too babe.  Let's snuggle and drift off to sleep.  in years past... .I would usually be pushing or jump at any chance for sex and closeness.  I've kinda flipped it where "most of the time" she is pursuing.

That being said... realize this is all "reading tea leaves"... .and we could be way off base.

FF

Thanks FF.  I will have lost all my grandparents within the last year.  Been tough, but I’m blessed to have them till I was 40 years old. 

Anyway, I had a feeling that I should have kept that out. Oh well. You’re right though about “reading tea leaves”.  This holding back and not contacting her is new territory and will continue that.  Still can’t believe it was 17 days.  Again, giving myself a pat on the back as I’m really trying to work on my self-confidence.

[Grey Kitty]

Thinking more about “rejecting her advances”.  Wouldn’t I validate her advances and let her know that I want to be intimate with her as well, but I won’t as long as she’s seeing other people and not in a r/s with me?  That’s using SET as well.

First, you don't validate advances. You accept them or you reject them. If you reject them, you can do it with no unneeded harshness--perhaps directly with words, perhaps just by not responding, perhaps with a "little white lie" on your reason... .depending on the situation. (Aside: Have you ever rejected her advances before, and if so, did she blow up/dysregulate when you did?)

As for why to reject her physical advances? I understand your reason that she's seeing other people (and if she's lying about it/inventing it, that's an even better reason than if it is merely true... .)

But that's not why *I* would do it in your shoes. I would reject it because I'd given up on being able to have a *stable* (sexual) relationship with her--because I know that after a day, a week, a month tops, she would be freezing me out again, rejecting me emotionally, physically, and in every way. If it was a one-time tinder date/one night stand, I'd have no expectations beyond a night of fun sex, and I'd accept the likelihood of never seeing her again, and wouldn't be hurt. But that's not the situation with her.

If I was in your shoes, no matter how good the sex was, it isn't worth it for another recycle-ish-whatever-it-is-cycle... .and even if she was willing to say she wasn't involved with anybody else, or even if she was willing to say she would commit to me again, I wouldn't believe that it could last well enough to do it again.

Note: I'm not saying that my choice *IS* right for you... .I'm explaining what I would do and why if it were me. I encourage you to make your own choices.

And similarly for reaching out to her for emotional support--I wouldn't do it because I would rather do that with somebody who I trusted to be there for me consistently.

[formflier]

GK brings up some things for you to think deeply about.

I would also bring up "protecting your heart" (reference Proverbs). 

I totally get it that it's "not just sex".  Sex is an important part of it and I'm sure... .ahem... .that you feel much better about life and things in general after a day or two of intimacy and sex with her.  That's normal... .that's healthy.

Where I am going to encourage YOU to do some "cost benefit analysis" is if the rejection cycle/devalue cycle is worth it.   It may be for you... .or it may not be... for you. 

Also, is the "benefit" (yeah... .I went there... .) of this worth you being "stuck" where you are at in life.  (perhaps use a different word for stuck).

I ask that because of the reaction/non-reaction to suggestions of dates... .going for coffee... etc etc. 

As things stand right now.  Assume you meet someone and they ask you to meet for coffee and conversation.  What do you do? 

Assume the coffee goes well and this person invites you over for "no strings attached sex"... .what do you do?

Or just invites you for another coffee?

No right or wrong answers here.  My concern is that YOU think these things through and "choose" a pathway for your life based on what you are "pretty sure" the "pathways" will provide... .vice what you "hope" they will provide.

Make sense?

FF

[flourdust]

Shorter version of Grey Kitty... .

Being dumped once by someone sucks. Who wants to let someone dump you ten times?

[MaroonLiquid]

Update:

So my ex and I have gone 21 days no contact when she sort of triggered me two days after my grandfather passed away.  She was very supportive and compassionate toward me.  We were communicating and saw each other a couple of times during that week.  We held hands and hugged but no kissing or anything.  Then two days after he passed away, I texted her that morning and told her I was thinking of her.  In the past, that meant we were thinking of each other physically when we would text that to each other.  This time I just wanted a friend.  She responded and said, “I’m seeing someone and don’t want to receive texts like this from you.  If you can’t stay within those boundaries then we won’t talk.”  It pissed me off.  It triggered me as I was looking for a friend and comfort.  I responded and told her that I didn’t mean anything by it and I was seeing someone also.  She responded, “What the heck?  At least try to be true to her.”  I responded that I wasn’t seeing anyone, that I was hurt, I was wrong for saying that and that I was tired of being treated like sh!t when I was inconvenient or she didn’t need me for anything.  She obviously didn’t respond and two days later of course I apologized for not being truthful and wasn’t dealing with my circumstances very well.  I left it at that but it’s been 21 days and I refuse to chase her any longer or allow her to lead the situation.  The last time was 17 days and she eventually texted me. I am tired of being mistreated or discarded at her convenience.  I’m not upset about it, but I’m setting a boundary for me.  I have noticed the last 4 days she is stalking some of my social media (Snapchat, twitter as she still has me blocked on Facebook).  She would rather do that than communicate?  What the heck is that?  Tired of that crap too!  I want healthy and want to lead the relationship, not do her dance.  I’m actually in a good place and really concentrating on me. The FOG is going away slowly but surely and the last few days I have wanted to text her knowing she is looking at my social media but have refrained.  Thoughts?

[formflier]

I'm not a big social medial guy... .I didn't finally get a FB account... .but only have 1 friend... by choice.

So... I don't understand how you can tell she is "stalking" you on social media.  My thought is that you choose to interact with social media in a way that you don't see or become aware of her "stalking".

   

FF

[Notwendy]

I don't have other social media accounts, so I can't say how it works on them, but I do have  a FB account. There is no way to tell who is looking at your profile or posts. I also have mine on highest privacy settings. You can do that so someone doesn't see a lot of what you have on your profile, but I keep in mind that nothing on social media is private.

I'm not sure it is stalking- it may be just curiosity or nosiness but whatever it is, I think it's common behavior. I wouldn't put any meaning to it.

Your focus now is on you- take care of you. Whatever she is doing on social media may not be about you at all.

[flourdust]

Then two days after he passed away, I texted her that morning and told her I was thinking of her.  In the paser tt, that meant we were thinking of each other physically when we would text that to each other.  This time I just wanted a friend.

So, you sent her a text that in the history of your relationship meant something sexual, and you got upset that she didn't read your mind? And then you reacted really badly, including lying to her. It took you two more days to apologize. And now you're angry at her again because you she didn't respond the way you wanted to your apology.

Based on that summary ... .what do you think?

[Cat Familiar]

Yikes, flourdust! You're really tough, but very clear summation.

ML, she does seem like she's holding her boundaries well. And if she's seeing someone else, you don't have a "relationship" that you can "lead". Though she's moved on to someone else, she probably still cares about you and that's why she's following your social media accounts.

Though I broke up with him almost 14 years ago, and I've been married for 12 years, I still Google my ex-boyfriend, and am curious what he's doing. Not that I'd want to ever get back together with him, but he was a really nice guy and I hope he's having a wonderful life.

I am very sorry about your grandfather and I think you need to consider how much grief you feel toward his loss as a separate issue, not blend it with the grief you feel about her.