Need advice on maintaining boundaries I set

[PeteWitsend]

hey guys, this is one thing I've struggled with and it seems like most of our conflicts stem from this situation.  there are what I'd describe as some "hot button" topics wife will bring up and, continue to pry/needle me until before I realize it, a full blown fight has started.

they typically start - out of the blue - with her saying the words "can I ask you a question?" (a phrase I've learned to dread) before grilling me on something like whether I've ever been unfaithful (no, nor has she EVER had any reason to suspect this), whether I "like" someone else at work (No, same), whether I complain about her to other people (I learned to just say no to this one) , or why someone did or said something years/months ago (I'm expected to know other people's motivations). 

typically - regardless of my answer - the questioning persists, along with heated statements like "I AM ALLOWED TO QUESTION MY HUSBAND" or "I AM ALLOWED TO SHARE MY CONCERNS WITH MY HUSBAND" when I tell her I'm annoyed at being subject to interrogations, but of course, it quickly goes off the rails at that point and can become about any number of things, NONE of which have to do with her original question.

here's my predicament: even when I've managed to stay calm, address her concerns and get her to calm down, the questioning picks up later that day, or the next day , and wears me down to where I react to it, and everything blows up. 

I've been considering having a bright line rule "you cannot ask me about X Y or Z"

still... .how should I enforce it?  a while ago, before I suspected there was a deeper issue at work here, My dad suggested saying "I will talk about this when I'm ready" and going for a walk ... .but that seems just like kicking the can down the street.  I don't want to talk about this nonsense, period.

[formflier]

Scheduling a time is much better than "forbidding a topic".

Especially if you schedule is during MC... .or with another 3rd party.

If things have gotten heated in the past, much safer to involve others.

STAY FRIENDLY and POSITIVE, you want to help her out... .she deserves "your best" and you can't give "your best" at the moment.

If she keeps after it... ."isn't this what we are going to discuss at abc?"  listen... be friendly... ."I'll be ready to discuss it then... for now I've got to go"

She is looking for the "reaction"... .deny that...

FF

[PeteWitsend]

We - at least I - am done with MC.  we went to MC last year, though I refused to keep going to that particular T, because he didn't seem very engaged, and would sit there yawning while she raged at me for bringing up something she didn't like.  wife had also seen him 1-on-1 prior to MC, and I felt like he was not being impartial, esp. because he was dodgy when I suggested wife continue seeing him, but we do MC with another T in his office.

after we came close to divorce a couple months ago, I agreed to go back to MC, but with a different T.  this time I said I wasn't going to hold back.  if i wasn't happy with something, I wasn't going to let fear of her shouting me down and punishing me with ST after our sessions.  

first time went ok; T zeroed in on wife's obvious jealousy and trust issues; told her when she felt like grilling me on infidelity/other women to learn to control that.  wife did NOT like that.

after 3 more sessions that consisted of: 1) me describing an event that bothered me, or action my wife did that I wanted to stop, then 2) her ranting for most of the rest of the time about a jumble of perceived insults, slights, etc. out of order, from over the years that somehow justified why she acted the way she did, I told the T I wasn't coming back anymore because it tended to cause more problems for us during the week.  MC wasn't a "safe place" to talk about our issues, unless I was willing to sit there and gush about how happy I was and what a great wife I had.  so that's where we are now.

a day later, wife calmed down and said she'd "work on herself because she didn't want to lose me."  that lasted all of two days before she had another blow up, and told me that again two days later.

[PeteWitsend]

ha.  ... .I guess that long post was my way of saying things are not better in front of a third party; wife then has an "audience" or "jury" to play to, and goes off on long rambling, angry attacks on me to somehow "prove" her actions are justified. 

if it - and inevitably does - become self evident that she's lying or avoiding the issue, she gets mad and starts attacking the 3rd party.

[PeteWitsend]

but your point about "scheduling" is well taken.  I guess that helps table the discussion to a later time and could take some of the wind (the crazy wind) out of her sails.

[formflier]

Is your wife still seeing the individual T?

In my relationship... .80% of the things that I can "kick down the road"... .just die out and never return

The ones that come back have lots less "fire" in them

FF

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Pete, I have to chuckle at your predicament because those questions remind me so much of my own marriage to my BPDxW (we are now divorced).  One question I found challenging was, ":)o I look fat in this dress?"  

One strategy could be to answer the question and pose another as to why she is asking.  E.g, "Of course I've never been unfaithful, why do you ask?  :)o you feel like you can't trust me for some reason?  Let's talk about it."  That might help you to discover the real source of the question, which presumably goes back to the fear of abandonment that underlies so much BPD behavior.  It's THE central theme, I suggest.

LuckyJim

[Red5]

(Pete writes) they typically start - out of the blue - with her saying the words "can I ask you a question?" (a phrase I've learned to dread) before grilling me on something

@PeteWitsend,
WOW, I can surely relate to your post.
How many times… I marvel at the conditioning (me), It’s like some kind of PTSD reaction,all she has to say is, “I need to talk about ____”, Or “we need to talk about ____”, Which really means I am NOT allowed to speak.
And the voice pitch, Ugh, that is an immediate reaction, makes my heart jump, then sink, and then it starts… Most times, I am good at going along to get along, or else derail, disarm, but when she is on to my avoidance tactics, she fixes her bayonet, and goes for my little plastic heart (again)… Wow, I actually feel a bit triggered now (not kidding)…
Then the “circular” argument begins, which usually leads to full blown fight, resultant in days of stonewalling… And to think I was just sitting there minding my own business, and… WHAM !
Yes, I can certainly relate.
It is exhausting,

[formflier]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_fighter_maneuvers

I'm a retired Naval Aviator... .when you get in a circular fight... .I mean... .circular conversation... .you have to be careful!

Some light reading for everyone.

FF

[PeteWitsend]

Is your wife still seeing the individual T?

In my relationship... .80% of the things that I can "kick down the road"... .just die out and never return

The ones that come back have lots less "fire" in them

FF

no, she stopped seeing him.  she started doing T over the phone with our MC from our prior area (we moved across the country a couple yrs ago), but also ended that as well, because she claimed it wasn't necessary anymore, and just went in circles.

in my experience, when my wife starts in interrogation mode, it has sometimes gone on for days.  so even if day one, I can cheerfully parry her off topic, or spend an hour reassuring her I love her, only to have her start up again the next day.

eventually I lose it.  my capacity to listen to her nonsense gets exhausted, and I just want to leave.

though, yes, on occasion, getting her off the topic - whatever it is - does succeed in securing peace for a few more days.

[PeteWitsend]

Hey Pete, I have to chuckle at your predicament because those questions remind me so much of my own marriage to my BPDxW (we are now divorced).  One question I found challenging was, ":)o I look fat in this dress?"  

One strategy could be to answer the question and pose another as to why she is asking.  E.g, "Of course I've never been unfaithful, why do you ask?  :)o you feel like you can't trust me for some reason?  Let's talk about it."  That might help you to discover the real source of the question, which presumably goes back to the fear of abandonment that underlies so much BPD behavior.  It's THE central theme, I suggest.

LuckyJim

I actually tried this just last night.  she asked me to read one of her marriage self-help books (the kind of book with really sweet, lovey-dovey advice that works great if you are in a marriage where one partner is NOT BPD, and can therefore accept reasonable criticism or requests without screaming, lying, and getting defensive about it).

there was a passage about a guy who was in love with someone new, and wanted to leave his wife.  spoiler alert: he just stopped being in love with someone new, and came crawling back begging everyone to help him save his marriage, which they did by "learning to speak the same love language."  wife then asked me if I was in love with someone else.

Me: "Why are you asking me this?"

Her: "because you haven't been very loving to me lately, and in the book that guy was that way because he was in love with someone else.  Why CAN'T I ask that question?"

Me: (Unhappy but unwilling to get in a circulat argument at 10:30 pm) No I am not in love with anyone else.  okay, let's just go to bed."

[formflier]

I think your answer at 1030 at night was right on point.  Good job!


Especially if you went to bed after that.

FF

[Lucky Jim]

Looks like progress to me, Pete.  Nice Job!  LJ

[formflier]

Please correct me if I'm off base... but this is what I perceive.

Your wife took the time to walk you through what she read... and how that triggered stuff in her.  You listened.  You understood. 

You succinctly answered the question and "moved along".

Is that pretty much what happened?

FF

[Red5]

@formflier wrote "[Your wife took the time to walk you through what she read... and how that triggered stuff in her.  You listened.  You understood.  You succinctly answered the question and "moved along".]"

This a very dangerous area, process (communication skills) and unless you are experienced, and know what you are to do (reaction) if she starts to go off track (dysregulation), you can very easily trigger her (not at all meaning to), by saying the wrong thing in response... .I think that most times, it is a no win anyways, but there are those "fleeting" times to where I think she (my wife) is actually trying to have constructive, and not destructive dialog with me.

As FF says, the "moved on" part, this is the sweet spot, and if you can get to that part of the dialog, without triggering, Man, you've accomplished something, and you can now go to sleep, and you'd better take mental notes, so that that you can deconstruct, and reverse engineer it, create a new and useful tool, and use it it again to both your benefits... .conflict avoidance, and resolution... .

Good job Pete !

[PeteWitsend]

yes, that's what happened, we DID just go to sleep after that.

I was not happy, because I resent being (again) accused of being unfaithful in a way, just because she's "feeling" something.  but I am trying to get over that and move on.  

I know if I start picking at why I have to get questioned several times a week about whether I love her, have been faithful, am cheating, ever cheated, etc., she gets defensive, and then things can easily go haywire.  It sucks, but it's tolerable.

She asks me these questions sometimes in front of my kids.  for now, my kids are young enough not to know better, but it's going to be a real problem for me to tolerate being grilled of whether I'm cheating on her (or lesser, but similar accusations... .liking other women, sharing thoughts with other women, etc.) when my kids are older.