Divorce and self-protection

[pearlsw]

Hi,

I might be starting the process of a divorce. Hard to say. In the country I am in if I contest the divorce it takes two years and in my understanding he will put out of the apartment and have to live elsewhere if we can not be under the same roof.

He has walked out now and says he will be away for two weeks, but has not filed as far as I know though he could have. I think he is hoping I agree to his terms and we sign it together and done deal.

He is very close with his lawyer so he has lots of free legal advice and a previous divorce under his belt with her assistance. I am hoping this will keep him from acting too erratic. He says he will be back in two weeks and wants a "fast divorce" - over and done in three months if we both agree. He offered me $1,000 a month for the next two years if I leave the country instead of stay here. He technically also is required to give me a share of his retirement for the years we have been together. This I know from his last divorce. I am not attached to that... .he got a late start and life and he needs his money, but he has pretty well wrecked mine and I need a leg up to recover from this marriage he brought me across the world into. Sigh.

He has made threats towards me in the past, but I am hoping the lawyer will keep him from following through on his revenge... .fantasies towards me.

I still don't think this will really happen, but it might. The lawyer herself is enabling his dysregulation unfortunately. She has given me legal advice in the past, when we were all friends, so that... .seems unethical to me. I don't see how she can represent him if I get my own lawyer. I think they prefer to negotiate off the books and make an agreement amongst ourselves. I am not against that, I don't like to waste money on legal fees either, but I certainly can't trust that they have my interests at heart. 

He told me not to go to a lawyer because I will have to pay for it myself, but I don't think that is true. I don't think he lied about it, I just think it is not true. But I can ask the potential lawyer.

I am not sure what more I can say as I cannot reveal the country on the boards. I guess I just want to know... .is there a way to protect myself from his making threats towards me and my family and friends? He has hacked emails and monitors my phone usage. If he does really want a divorce he can have one, I am just not inclined to give him a fast one as I think he is dysregulating. He was just telling me he "could not live without me" or "imagine his life without me" two days ago... ."I am the love of his life... .his dream!" He was singing, dancing and bouncing off the walls from happiness when he said all this. So, now he has crashed. For how long? No one knows. 

Thanks for reading!

[flourdust]

I would make a couple of suggestions to start with... .

First, can you act to protect the privacy of your communications? Change passwords, use two-factor authentication, or set up new email and phone accounts? He won't like that you are doing these things, but he has a history of snooping on you, and he's already made numerous threats and is attempting to strong-arm you in a potential divorce. Fighting back by protecting your privacy is the least you can do.

Secondly, I would encourage you to interview an attorney who is experienced in high-conflict divorces. The initial interview may be free or may have a nominal charge. It is worth it. You can bring your specific questions about your situation and get some advice from someone who knows what your rights are. You don't have to hire an attorney if you do decide that the divorce threats are empty or you can make out just fine with a mediated settlement -- but take that initial interview and get some sound legal advice.

[pearlsw]

Hi flourdust, I left messages with two lawyer's offices today just to put a toe in the water. The assistant at the 2nd office told me they expect an hourly fee of $432 up front to see me and see what's what. (Things are super expensive here) She is gonna call me back if the lawyer even wants to deal with me. I have a feeling I won't get a call back, but you never know. It felt weird and scary. Luckily I know some of my rights, but I agree, and I've told him this in the past, if it comes to this I want my own lawyer. I asked the lawyer if I have to pay this up front fee or if my husband does since he controls all the money. We'll see.

[flourdust]

Yikes, that is expensive! The norm where I am is around half of that, although I also found that some firms will entice you with a much lower rate for that initial interview. So, you may get a different answer from the second firm you contact. You can also try to negotiate the fee for this initial consultation. You have some decent leverage because an hour invested of their time might get them a client.

[pearlsw]

I am nervous about it all. Capitalism is not as flexible here as it is in the US, fewer options and they are rich enough they don't need you or hustle for your business. They can get clients with million dollar size divorces. I am a small fish. And a poor one at that. I have gone ahead and written up a list of expenses related to a move for me and resetting up a life back in the home country. I am willing to make my own proposal and see what he and his lawyer say. I don't mind saving him and I both legal fees - though technically he has a "free" lawyer in his pocket. They/we made a deal in the past that he does technical stuff for her and she "forgives" some of his legal fees. (It is because of me he saved $50,000 in past legal fees!)

I will not let her into this apartment to deal with me though. Never again. He pulled that two weeks after we married and he promised to never involve her again between us. She was actually very insulting towards me the last time we saw her together in the late spring, we were both upset about it, but he didn't feel he could stand up to her because he has another ongoing legal case against his (first) ex-wife because he needed her "free" legal help. (I will hold my tongue for now (forever?) about his betrayal (as he would call it!) of me on this considering the number of times I stood up for and defended him against the world.)

Me getting a lawyer would really make his life difficult, it might cost a lot of money and not get much more for me to recover my life and back on my feet. Me paying the money out of my own pocket is huge given my limited funds and future prospects. I am torn between wanting to be noble and easy and not wanting to be a fool about all this and claim my rights and protecting myself as much as possible. I didn't deserve all this damage he has done to my life by bringing me into his messed up one and I don't want to pay any with my life to protect his anymore. I have done that enough, made enough sacrifices for him with mostly pain/anger/mistreatment in return unfortunately. Financially and emotionally it makes more sense to be together, that is the conclusion I came to in the past as this was brought up many times previously. I also don't want to agree to anything while he is dysregulating, but I guess I should let up on that a bit too because who knows how long this will go on, and I don't see it ever really stopping if we stay together.

If he really does (I don't even know what that means for him given his extreme black and white thinking) want to end things I don't know how this goes. It is nice with him away if he does not want to communicate. I miss him, but I am trying to appreciate the fact he is not here "torturing" me, but what happens when he comes in two weeks if we do not agree on terms? I KNOW FOR A FACT he does not have the money for this, so then what? He can't afford to move out either. He and I are both stuck in that case. I'd need money to leave and need it up front and he doesn't have it and won't have it for many months if he can get it together. He's been on a spending spree since the summer and got himself into a bit of a financial hole. Not super deep, but enough to cause him problems and a lot of distress - I think that is part of why he is dysregulating. He was just praising me last week for all my cost cutting ideas/efforts. Last week I was the most wonderful woman in the world and he couldn't imagine living without me. Sigh.

[flourdust]

... .though technically he has a "free" lawyer in his pocket. They/we made a deal in the past that he does technical stuff for her and she "forgives" some of his legal fees. (It is because of me he saved $50,000 in past legal fees!)

This may actually pose a conflict of interest situation. In the US, if you've shared personal information with an attorney, they can't represent your spouse in a divorce. They will actually run a check of their records before agreeing to an initial interview with you. Obviously, I don't know the laws of the country you're in, or the specifics of the interactions with your husband's friend/attorney ... .but this is another reason to contact an independent attorney. A five minute consultation would let you know definitively if this person is legally allowed to represent your husband.

Me paying the money out of my own pocket is huge given my limited funds and future prospects. I am torn between wanting to be noble and easy and not wanting to be a fool about all this and claim my rights and protecting myself as much as possible.

Pretty much everyone who has been through divorce has felt the same way. You don't want to spend money on an attorney. If you want a divorce, you want it fast and super-cheap. This is, unfortunately, one of those tough truths that you have to learn to accept. There are unexpected expenses in life -- major medical problems, home repairs, replacing vehicles destroyed in accidents -- that you may not be prepared for, but you have no choice but to accept. Divorce is one of those. It's going to cost, one way or another. Your financial standing is going to take a hit. This is unavoidable, and it's one of the major negative consequences of divorce. What you need to do is to protect yourself from that hit being worse than it has to be.

The best case scenario is that you have an attorney who can review an agreement you have drawn up to make sure it is legal and not riddled with mistakes that are accidentally sabotaging your financial future. These are easy to make, especially with complex assets like property and retirement funds. You need a professional to ensure that you aren't saving $1000 on an attorney but losing $50,000 on sloppy contract language.

That's the best case scenario. You're intelligent; I don't need to tell you how much worse you can get screwed over if you aren't protected by expert counsel. It's not just about making sure the contract language is correct -- it's about navigating complex local law systems and relationships between judges, evaluators, opposing counsel, etc. If it is a fight, you do not want to be unarmed. You can easily lose out on a lot more than what you would have spent on legal fees.

[pearlsw]

Yes, it seems like a conflict of interest to me too! She and I were better friends than he was with her for a while and I was giving her free English lessons and she was "grooming me" to start a business project with her... .Ironically I may have left here on my own sooner if I had not been waiting to work with her... .she was a bit slow. Later when I turned to her a friend for help during what seemed like a "real" breakup I finally let it out, albeit it very, very nicely how unstable my h is. She seemed "on my side" at first, which was not my goal in any way. I told her clearly I just wanted some basic info on my rights - she is how I know what I know about them so far. I asked not to pressure my husband in any way - to just wait and see because I believed he might back off of things. And he did. But then she approached him behind my back and was trying to help him. And then later she seemed to gradually cut me off as a friend. This upset my husband because it hurt him how I would always be waiting online to help her and she would break our meetings. He actually kind of hates her and thinks she is an incompetent lawyer to be honest. And he finds her difficult, but she can talk circles around him and he is not good at defending himself. The t.v. show version of those two being roommates right now... .must be crazy!  She tends to sit around putting away the bottles of wine all evening and can't see straight to cook whenever we used to go there, but anyway... .That's life! If my life was any more absurd... .

But I will be getting some free assistance tomorrow. Got that arranged today all in a foreign language to my amazement! Got some other advice that helped me avoid making a mistake that would have negatively affected my immigration. Advice she gave him to give to me I might add. She is not the best lawyer. Luckily I am smart and caught that detail before I ruined my future here entirely.

I will also ask if he is expected to pay for my counsel, what I can expect from a settlement, what he is and is not responsible for. From that I can tell whether I can negotiate with him directly or not and if it saves us money. I will also look into a restraining order to prevent him from contacting me or my family and friends and making threats of any kind. I read something yesterday that made me think they don't have those here like in the US so we'll see... .hope I get lucky! 

Anyway, I will insist I will not go through his lawyer for anything. He will have to get another one if I can help it. I will also get advice tomorrow about what to do when/if he tries to reenter the home. I am contemplating only communicating through a lawyer going forward if he doesn't make an effort to talk to me about reconciliation soon. Unless he wants to be together, which is what I'd prefer, I  feel today like I don't want to see his cold, angry face anymore. It hurts too much to see him flip into "hate" mode after all I've sacrificed for him. We'll see. (fingers crossed)

Thanks for checking in on me!