Losing Things & Dysregulating Often

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Well, uBPDh had two (mostly) self-directed rage-outs today, and has had several over the past week. He's been working, and I guess that's contributing to him being distracted and misplacing things more often than usual. H cannot stand to misplace anything. It sends him into a dark spiral. The past few times he's been talking about self harm. While I don't think he'll actually do anything, I feel like I should probably call a suicide hotline or something the next time he does it. Last week, he did it before work, and I called his mom to try to help calm him down.

When he loses something, he gets into a panic and won't leave until he finds said thing. And, in many cases, it's when he and I both have to get somewhere (we have to share one car right now because his is on the fritz). I obviously cannot deal with this on a regular basis, but I don't know what else to do.

It always goes the same way.

He starts hurriedly looking around the house, then muttering to himself, then panicking, then getting angry with himself, then talking to me about how he "Can't deal with this anymore" and how he's going to do some "serious self harm" to himself the next time this happens. Sometimes he outright tells me he's going to kill himself. Then he keeps looking and keeps panicking, then he blames the clutter, and then he blames ME for not picking up his clutter (we have a second bedroom that currently is unfurnished and has a bunch of boxes in there, and his stuff is scattered everywhere in that room - in piles on the floor, strewn around the closet, all over).

Today, he started doing this while I was on a conference call for work. I was really angry. Usually when he does this, I try to stay out of it, but his raging theatrics, I suspect, are meant to get my attention. I can try to ignore his raging and do my own thing, but eventually he gets angry with me for not helping him. It's hard not to JADE in that situation. What can I say but, "Your behavior is scary, so I'm staying out of your way"?

Of course, when I do look, I end up finding whatever it is about 70 percent of the time. I guess because I'm not raging all over the house like a maniac.

Has anyone else dealt with a BPD who chronically loses things, and is there any way to help them? Even if we organize things and have a place for everything, he still misplaces them. Recently, he left his laptop at the office. Maybe just get him GPS tags for everything?

Also, randomly, he was kind of mean spirited over the last few days. I have been sick and he was mocking my cough, and being uncharacteristically impish, and taunting me. I'm not sure what that's about. Another facet of the Mr. Hyde personality? He used to act that way when he was drunk, but he hasn't done so in a while.

Thank heavens this site is here. I need this forum today!

[WitzEndWife]

Well, uBPDh had two (mostly) self-directed rage-outs today, and has had several over the past week. He's been working, and I guess that's contributing to him being distracted and misplacing things more often than usual. H cannot stand to misplace anything. It sends him into a dark spiral. The past few times he's been talking about self harm. While I don't think he'll actually do anything, I feel like I should probably call a suicide hotline or something the next time he does it. Last week, he did it before work, and I called his mom to try to help calm him down.

When he loses something, he gets into a panic and won't leave until he finds said thing. And, in many cases, it's when he and I both have to get somewhere (we have to share one car right now because his is on the fritz). I obviously cannot deal with this on a regular basis, but I don't know what else to do.

It always goes the same way.

He starts hurriedly looking around the house, then muttering to himself, then panicking, then getting angry with himself, then talking to me about how he "Can't deal with this anymore" and how he's going to do some "serious self harm" to himself the next time this happens. Sometimes he outright tells me he's going to kill himself. Then he keeps looking and keeps panicking, then he blames the clutter, and then he blames ME for not picking up his clutter (we have a second bedroom that currently is unfurnished and has a bunch of boxes in there, and his stuff is scattered everywhere in that room - in piles on the floor, strewn around the closet, all over).

Today, he started doing this while I was on a conference call for work. I was really angry. Usually when he does this, I try to stay out of it, but his raging theatrics, I suspect, are meant to get my attention. I can try to ignore his raging and do my own thing, but eventually he gets angry with me for not helping him. It's hard not to JADE in that situation. What can I say but, "Your behavior is scary, so I'm staying out of your way"?

Of course, when I do look, I end up finding whatever it is about 70 percent of the time. I guess because I'm not raging all over the house like a maniac.

Has anyone else dealt with a BPD who chronically loses things, and is there any way to help them? Even if we organize things and have a place for everything, he still misplaces them. Recently, he left his laptop at the office. Maybe just get him GPS tags for everything?

Also, randomly, he was kind of mean spirited over the last few days. I have been sick and he was mocking my cough, and being uncharacteristically impish, and taunting me. I'm not sure what that's about. Another facet of the Mr. Hyde personality? He used to act that way when he was drunk, but he hasn't done so in a while.

Thank heavens this site is here. I need this forum today!

[babyducks]

Hi WitzEndWife,

I'm sorry you aren't feeling well.    What I experienced in my relationship, any time I got sick it really upset my ex partner.    It was a double whammy.   She viewed me being ill as an abandonment of sorts... .I think it had a lot to do with my attention being focused somewhere other than her.    And she viewed it as a needs entitlement war,    she was sure her needs weren't going to be met because I was under the weather.     It was not a fun place to be.

It's hard not to JADE in that situation. What can I say but, "Your behavior is scary, so I'm staying out of your way"?

What I learned (great wisdom through painful experience)  was to use "I" statements, not "You" statements.    anything that had the "you" in it would push my ex partner into a full blown dysregulation.

I'm not comfortable helping you look, so I am staying out of the way.

I would guess that part of it is he really is so dsyregulated he forgot where he put something,  I would also guess that part of is attention seeking behavior,... come help me, come pay attention to me, stop what you are doing and make me your focus, and part of it is making the external environment match the internal environment.

It took me a long time to get the fact that where I saw peace and quiet my ex partner saw void and emptiness.   for the longest time we had this thing where I would turn off the TV, the radio, the computer because I wanted some peace and quiet, and she would come right along and turn on the TV to some loud talk show where people were yelling at each other,  turn the radio on and then go get on the computer.    Yes all at the same time.   It felt like to me that she needed to have the external environment match the internal one.   First thing out of bed in the morning and she would turn on some political talk show where people were raving at each other.  I barely had my eyes open and wanted nothing more than a quiet morning.    Peace and quiet were emptiness and void to her.    She literally couldn't stand it.

I think this is like any dysregulation,   you want to carefully, compassionately remove yourself from it.    You want to establish and hold boundaries that reflect your wise mind decisions, not the pressure to engage in chaos.    'I will help for 5 minutes and then I am going to go do a tub of laundry.'   or 'I know you are capable of figuring this out, if it's not found by tomorrow then I will look.'

my two cents
'ducks

[WitzEndWife]

It took me a long time to get the fact that where I saw peace and quiet my ex partner saw void and emptiness.   for the longest time we had this thing where I would turn off the TV, the radio, the computer because I wanted some peace and quiet, and she would come right along and turn on the TV to some loud talk show where people were yelling at each other,  turn the radio on and then go get on the computer.    Yes all at the same time.   It felt like to me that she needed to have the external environment match the internal one.   First thing out of bed in the morning and she would turn on some political talk show where people were raving at each other.  I barely had my eyes open and wanted nothing more than a quiet morning.    Peace and quiet were emptiness and void to her.    She literally couldn't stand it.

REALLY interesting that you mention that, ducks. My H always has to have music on. I LOVE music, but sometimes I do want peace and quiet. This is "boring" to him. He can't stand just sitting in quiet and reading most of the time. He has to have some kind of outside stimulation. That's also why he is addicted to his phone and cannot put it down, even when we are taking a nice hike in the woods.

It's bad because he's actually gotten me into the habit of being on my phone and social media more often than I used to be. When someone else is on their phone when you two are together, it subconsciously signals you to be on your phone. The funny thing is, if I am on my phone when he is not, or if I decide I'm going to watch a movie on my laptop, he gets upset that I'm not paying attention to him.

I suspect the whole drama around losing things is some kind of call for attention, or a call for me to "fix" whatever is wrong inside of him.

He did talk to me last night about it, after he came back home. He said that he was feeling "overwhelmed" with self-doubt over starting his new career. I told him that I understood, but that raging around the house was unacceptable, and that it was traumatizing the dog. Our dog is older and is very sensitive and hides whenever he starts to dysregulate. She knows he's doing it before he even starts raging. He loves the dog, so I'll admit, I was kind of using her to reason with him about this. I said, "She is older and doesn't have that many years left. If she spends those years stressed out all of the time, it could shorten her life." It is true, and it is how I feel, but I did lay it on a bit thick. He swore that he didn't want to traumatize her. Maybe having him think of the dog will be a way to calm him back down. I don't know. I'll have to see next time he starts up.

[Tired_Dad]

To me it seems that "loosing" things is the norm. Usually it's her car keys, but it can be other things. I don't think that it's that she looses or misplaces items more than an average person does, but that when an item is not where she expects it to be it is severely triggering to her and she seems to have an inability to adapt to the situation by either retracing her steps or even taking the spare set from the cabinet. It becomes an obsessive search and is often accompanied by accusations of trying to control her. I pretty much stay out of it now, if her keys are misplaced I go right for the spare and tell her "they will show up" and leave it at that.

As for "noise" in the house I find that the TV is constantly on. At times there are multiple TVs on different channels on throughout the house (as well as all the lights in every room but the one she is in) She often says that she needs it to sleep and unfortunately as multiple studies have shown it is very detrimental to sleep to have the TV on. It is a struggle between us that I have adapted to by either going to bed well before her, or waiting for her to fall asleep so that I can just turn it off and sleep myself.

Social media is the weirdest of all her addictions as she will become easily triggered, offended, or take it all as "reality" instead of the curated projection that people post. She can't understand how I can be on my phone and not be talking to someone when I am quite often reading articles that have come across my feed (usually history stuff) and will often talk about needing to cancel our phones and Facebook and rage at me about it. I flatly inform her that it does not trigger me and that she was just as irritated when I was reading history magazines as she is now with reading them online. In my gut I feel that this is just projection of her own guilt and that there is probably something that I should be concerned with about her social media use. Yet I am currently at the point where if she could manage to get herself a "White Knight" to trap into a "rescue" I would gladly let her leave with him and save me the further trouble.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Witzend, I suspect that losing things is a way to get attention, which probably ameliorates his fear of abandonment.  Why do you participate in the search?  Presumably  because like most of us Nons, including me, you have codependent tendencies.  It took me a long time to grasp that helping can sometimes be unhealthy for both the helper and the person helped, because it fosters dependency and distracts the helper from his/her own issues.

LuckyJim

[WitzEndWife]

Hey Witzend, I suspect that losing things is a way to get attention, which probably ameliorates his fear of abandonment.  Why do you participate in the search?  Presumably  because like most of us Nons, including me, you have codependent tendencies.  It took me a long time to grasp that helping can sometimes be unhealthy for both the helper and the person helped, because it fosters dependency and distracts the helper from his/her own issues.

LuckyJim

I try not to participate in the search, honestly. But, when I do, it's better than letting him turn my house upside down. It's not an extensive search, I just walk around the house to see if I see anything, and then, if I see it, I say, "Here," and have done with it. I don't have codependent tendencies. I'm actually very independent. That does not mean that I like to have my stuff dumped out all over the floor and my things broken every time he misplaces something.

[Lucky Jim]

I try not to participate in the search, honestly. But, when I do, it's better than letting him turn my house upside down

OK, now I get it.

LJ

[Cat Familiar]

Wow—losing things, having to have radio, TV, music, computer on—yes, yes and yes! Also chaos, clutter—that too.

I’m a very organized person and my habits of putting things back where they belong after I’ve used them are seen by him as authoritarian tendencies. He also used to leave piles of magazines and mail on the dining tables, to the point where there was little room for dinnerware and serving dishes. My complaints about that did no good. Then I started bringing all his stuff to his studio and piling it in a neat stack. He was angry with me about “cluttering up his studio” but I told him I was going to continue doing that when I  needed to clean the house. Now he doesn’t leave all his stuff around here which makes for a much pleasanter environment for me.

I think the clutter and chaos and noise are just external representations of the internal chaos within. It certainly affects my mood when he brings this disharmony to my living quarters.

Thankfully when we first got together and started a big building project, adding onto the house I built many years ago, I insisted that he have his own detached studio. At the time, as smitten as I was with him, I didn’t think I could handle living under the same roof with him. And I’m so grateful that I realized this early on. His noise, clutter and chaos would have driven me even more bonkers.

And did I mention he frequently loses things in plain sight? And the wording he uses imply that these inanimate objects have somehow conspired to hide themselves!

[Lalathegreat]

Such an interesting thread as I'm not entirely certain that I would have ever linked the constantly losing things and need for background noise to BPD specifically, I always just considered it "one more freaking thing" that frustrated the man.

But to answer the question - YES. He lost things all the time, and generally blamed ME. "I may not keep the cleanest house, but I know where my SH*T is unless you move stuff! (Umm, no he didn't, but whatever.) in my case I think that he lost things BECAUSE he had such a hard time staying tidy. At the beginning of the relationship I tended to do a lot of straightening and he appeared to. E generally grateful. But once things began to split and he began to get upset at me constantly for losing his things when I cleaned, I all but stopped. Then he would get mad that I wasn't cleaning and it just became one more freaking thing. Lather, rinse, repeat.

And so interesting, this one I would NEVER have linked, but my ex also always had something in the background. It was never quiet... .

Lala

[formflier]

My wife is "BPD lite" compared to the other women in her family.  Her Mom has slept with a TV blaring for decades.  Sister does similar things. 

The Mom generally sleeps in bed.  The older sister will rarely sleep in bed but most of the time in a chair or couch with TV blaring... or computer... .but then the sister will work herself into all kinds of odd positions during the night.  The kinda thing where you are like... ."that's got to hurt" or "how can anyone sleep in that position.

My P says the chaos inside the brain will match the noise and chaos outside.

FF

[babyducks]

Hi WitzEndWife

I don't have codependent tendencies. I'm actually very independent.

I am not codependent either.     I am, however, by nature, a helper and a fixer.    I think there is a difference.

Actually I think the word codependent has been so over used as to be hard to define now.    Kind of like the word arthritis.    We all know what it means, but it covers so much territory as to be imprecise.

There is a book by Margalis Fjelstad "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist - How to End the Drama and Get on with Life."     In it she talks about the difference between a caretaker and a codependent.   

I am definitely a Caretaker because it's almost second nature for me to think I did something wrong, or am in some way responsible when someone else is upset.   Because I hate conflict and avoid it at all costs.    I can easily find myself thinking more about my partner's (now Ex) thoughts, feeling, wants and behaviors than my own.

I agree with Fjelstad  that people who become Caretakers for pwBPD seem to share a certain set of personality traits.   

"People who are overly empathetic, self-sacrificing, unassuming, deferential, more willing to put other's needs before there own, uncomfortable with conflict, generous, and perfectionistic are more vulnerable to become a Caretaker.

I don't think there is anything wrong with those traits, I think that most times having those traits is a good thing and I like having them.

Except when I use them to counter balance the extreme behaviors of a pwBPD.    When I was with my pwBPD I continued to be overly empathic, self sacrificing etc etc in response to the extreme needs I was facing.    It quickly became a death spiral.   I was over performing in my role in the relationship.   And wearing myself out in the process.

I think that's why the "I've lost something" is such an effective tool.    It plays right into that dynamic of helper/fixer.    and like TiredDad said:

it is severely triggering to her and she seems to have an inability to adapt to the situation

It took me a long long time to figure out that my partner defined a relationship as a way to get her emotional extremes taken care of.  That's what she thought a relationship was for.   That's all she thought it was for.

On my side of the street I thought, believed that I must give love in order to get love.    It was some sort of quid pro quo.    The more I gave the more I should get right?    It never occurred to me I was lovable even when I wasn't giving.

and hence it was like a perfect storm.   The losing things, the endlessly broken down car,  the constant small invitations to 'come fix this'.    they were hooks.   they were hooks that kept me over performing in the relationship.

that's why I think being in a r/s with a pwBPD is such a balancing act.   

my two cents
'ducks

[babyducks]

Hi LaLa

Such an interesting thread as I'm not entirely certain that I would have ever linked the constantly losing things and need for background noise to BPD specifically,

Well,   I don't know that they are linked, beyond what ever one has said.   Chaos within, Chaos without.

I do know there was something very odd about the home environment that my Ex created for herself.   I couldn't tell you why but it raised the hackles on the back of my neck.  It was a red flag.  

There was something always tense and uncomfortable about our home environment.   Sheeesh I could tell you the story about the day I changed the radio station.   The world nearly ended. 

What I know now is that I worked really really hard at handling the chaos, trying to make life calmer and more predictable.   I took some of those red flags as challenges.

"Caretakers feels their main job is to keep the family atmosphere from deteriorating into chaos, hostility and hurt feelings."

I came into my relationship prewired that way.   and then in highly intense atmosphere of BPD I ran way passed my limits.  I didn't have good boundaries about saying (appropriately)  raging while searching for a lost item is not okay,  and tearing the house up while searching for a lost item is not okay.   Neither one of those is acceptable.    Now, granted my partner was a positive genius at creating double binds, come fix my problem or I will make you pay the penalty,   or don't fix my problem and I will make you pay the penalty.  But on the flip side I wasn't very good at standing up for myself and facing down the intimidation.

'ducks

[formflier]

I am not codependent either.     I am, however, by nature, a helper and a fixer.    I think there is a difference.

Actually I think the word codependent has been so over used as to be hard to define now.    Kind of like the word arthritis.    We all know what it means, but it covers so much territory as to be imprecise.
 

I'm much more in the fixer/helper realm.  I've had my P say she didn't think codependency was "big" for me.  I suspect it's one of those "spectrum" things.

I used to be completely focused on my wife and got a lot of satisfaction from her "being happy".  That worked for 15ish years of marriage.  I'm an acts of service guy and really liked providing.  

The downside to this is I didn't focus on many relationships outside of the military.  So, when I lost the "structure" of the military... .I was a bit lost.  By that time the r/s with my wife was going downhill, yet I was still looking to that for my emotional needs.

Is that/was that codependency?  Not sure... .but I'm glad to be able to move on from that.

Now I look other places to take care of my emotional needs and try to enjoy the times when my wife is supportive and "move along" when she tries to tear things down.


Sort of back to the point of this thread.  There is a strong correlation to my wife's emotional instability and chaos in the house.  Chaos going up is directly related to her emotions being out of whack.  It's frustrating to me as she will blame the chaos for her emotions and seems to lack the ability to see that she "causes" chaos.

FF

[babyducks]

It's frustrating to me as she will blame the chaos for her emotions and seems to lack the ability to see that she "causes" chaos.

FF

I had this idea that my partner was like everyone else,  only more intense, more emotional, with ~normal~ periods interposed with dysregulation.  

Wasn't true.

My partner did not see things from an objective or reality perspective.   Wasn't just me she didn't see that way, it was most things.   She had a 15 year old car she was going to keep forever because she liked it.   She would have a feeling, act on it for her own benefit and then create a reason why.   In most things she didn't operate in reality.    I will say that many times she was close to reality.   Which I found confusing.   But many times her conclusions and actions were just one step outside the boundary of reality.    a few times her conclusions were well outside reality.   those were easier to see.

it was when she was just there,  on the threshold of reality and delusion that I had a difficult time.    in some of the delusional explanations there was a grain of truth.    

For my partner she always saw her emotions as being caused by others, or by events outside herself, with no outstanding of her role in her own emotions.

'ducks

[formflier]

it was when she was just there,  on the threshold of reality and delusion that I had a difficult time.    in some of the delusional explanations there was a grain of truth.    

For my partner she always saw her emotions as being caused by others, or by events outside herself, with no outstanding of her role in her own emotions.

Ducks,

It's interesting to understand other's experiences with this kind of thing.

I totally agree and understand when you say the "close" stuff is the worst.  For instance... .I can easily place in the "crazy" realm, my wife handing her family big wads of cash... .or thinking I have an out of wedlock child.

Yet... .when she promises not to spend from an account... and makes a 15 dollar charge... .which results in a $35 overdraft, it seems to stir me up more, because it was so close or seems so easy.

Yet I know it's all really the same thing just masked a little better. 

My wife also will have long periods of normalcy, which lulls me into thinking something profound has changed or she has "seen the light".    Riiiight... .

Last:  Then every once in a while I find things that would "seem" to indicate she understands... .almost.

I was looking through a kids notebook.  Marveling at drawings and doodles.  I flip a page and in my wife's hand is written.

"feelings of self righteousness & justification take over emotions when thinking about FF (uses my real name) betrayal"

No indication what that "betrayal is".  She doesn't write down that she "Feels like" I betrayed her... because for her... it's a fact, even though there is no "evidence".

Very frustrating

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I definitely was trained to be a caretaker and codependent by my BPD mom. I felt that I was responsible for her bad moods and that it was up to me to change her. She used the silent treatment at times, starting when I was a child, but she couldn't keep it up too long because her rage wanted a verbal expression.  

So in my first marriage with my BPD/NPD/ASPD husband, I bent over backwards to try and manage his moods and ridiculous requests.

My current husband managed to keep the BPD under the radar for years, much like FF's wife. Then, when it finally showed up in full bloom, I was astonished and ill-equipped to handle it until I landed here and started doing individual counseling.

It took me a long time to not think the outbursts were just aberrations and that the original guy I fell in love with would return. But now I realize he's comfortable enough with me to quit the performance of the false persona (the one I agreed to marry) and let his true self shine through. Ugh.

Mostly I can manage not to get emotionally distraught when he decides to be an azz. Lately I can see the dark clouds gathering and I exit before the storm arises. There's always some good reason for me to not stay for the performance: needing to medicate an animal, laundry, housecleaning, etc.

I find if I give it time and don't participate in the storm, it usually never develops beyond a few scattered showers. Until I learned that, I hadn't realized how much being an audience gave him permission to let the hurricane rip.

So yes, I get the "you don't care" and "you're not interested in me" chatter. And frankly, I don't care when he's being a jerk and trying to recruit me into his drama. Sometimes I've said that I care very much when he's being kind and loving. And just let that remark speak for itself.

I do like being a helper and a fixer. That is part of my nature. But after a lifetime of living in close proximity to pwBPD, I think this one has finally cured me of codependency. Nowadays he can even accuse me of being selfish and I just say, "Yep, that's me!"

[babyducks]

My wife also will have long periods of normalcy, which lulls me into thinking something profound has changed or she has "seen the light".    Riiiight... .

I must have Fjelstad stuck in my head this morning because I am thinking about what she said when she talked about this.  

when we experience the ups/downs and push/pull cycles, the ~this time will be different moments~, we feel drawn in.  even with all the evidence to the contrary we believe this time is different, change is coming.    I can't tell you the number of times I thought, all I have to do is wait out this dysregulation and things will be fine.   except things were never fine.   they might be, as you said, better masked but never fine.   It was my own delusion.

[WitzEndWife]

I could say I'm a helper/fixer, but in more of a cerebral way, not necessarily a caretaker way. I'm a writer and I'm drawn into characters, and understand how everyone is flawed. In fact, it's my understanding nature, my need to learn and understand, that is my detriment. I can rationalize, "Well, he acts like X because Y." In part, I think I stay because it's like a puzzle almost, figuring out the actual fears and raw emotions that drive certain behaviors.

But, of course, over-rationalizing is detrimental because at some point you need to say, "Hey! I understand WHY you're doing this, but that doesn't make it okay." I've been working on my boundaries over the past year, and it's made things better, for sure.

[WitzEndWife]

Great. BPDh messaged me (I'm at work), freaking out because he lost his tie bar. Apparently he looked all over for it and he thinks it fell off somewhere. He says he cannot find a replacement at Macy's, and he's saying things like, "I can't live with this," "How am I going to be able to go into the office?" He's currently calling himself all sorts of names. I told him, "Please don't talk about yourself like that, I'm not going to listen to it."

I'm definitely afraid to go back home right now when he's like this. He'll be a depressed, ranting nightmare. I usually go home in about an hour. Maybe he'll have sorted himself out by then. Sigh.