SD11 anxiety decision time

[kells76]

SD11 (DH's oldest) has been seeing a counselor for about a year and a half (time flies!), and while a lot of the surface behavioral stuff has really changed for the better, C says that the foundational anxiety hasn't changed. This makes a lot of sense to me. SD11 is way less confrontational (though still an episode with us every few months+), really tries to be kinder and more polite, is super warm and affectionate with DH (a few transitions ago it was hug, Bye DH I love you, out door, in door, hug, hug, out door, in, hug... .so, that's a nice change).

What's coming out with us at least is decision-making anxiety. She had to choose between two friend parties the other weekend, picked one & tried it for a bit, realized she didn't want to be there, tried calling DH to get picked up for other party (didn't work out), but really had to process feeling like she'd made the wrong decision & regretted not picking the other party. Maybe part of this is hormones (this situation might be a 3 but because of hormones felt to her like an 8) or just genuine normal kid problems, but this sort of decision regret/"I messed up" attitude is coming coupled with some instances of "I didn't want to do X but I didn't want to tell you and disappoint you" (to DH) and a LOT of self-deprecation about being a failure at school.

C has basically said, Look, anxiety is NOT resolving over 18 months, so she's suggesting medication. I do get that -- it's like having crutches with a broken leg, so you can do healing and then be done with crutches. Mom doesn't want to do meds, which I also get, and would be fine with if Mom were willing to do... .something.

C also suggested something naturopathic if Mom didn't want pharma, but Mom says she can't afford it. Mom is also saying that she is "seeing a lot of improvement" and "having great conversations" with SD11.

I think my concern is that Mom is so relieved not to have to deal with the "grass" of the oppositional behavior that she doesn't want to work with the "dirt" of the anxiety. Sort of like, if I feel like things are going well with SD11, then things ARE going well with SD11. DH said it also sounded like Mom wants to feel like "she's tried everything she could" for SD11 before doing meds. I sort of get that too, but I'm also concerned that this is more about Mom feeling like she can be everything to SD11, versus Mom caring about what SD11 really needs (which, who knows, might be meds).

The other thing is that our marriage counselor has also met with Mom & Stepdad (long story but our MC basically knows about all their BS and gets what's going on). MC thinks that besides Mom being immensely insecure, Stepdad is a massively anxious person (underneath all his posturing and aggression, which is another story). Mom's house is basically not a relaxing place, it's a high anxiety place, but SD11 probably is too young to see it and probably feels like it's normal. Oh, and C said that SD11 has problems falling asleep & isn't getting a lot of rest (anxiety).

My idea for a no-cost, no-drugs intervention is: have SD11 spend more time/nights at DH's     It seems like a perfect way for Mom to put her money where her mouth is. If Mom is all about doing everything she can for SD11, but doesn't want to spend any money on it, then... .surely this is a win win? Right?

Anyway, DH & Mom are meeting up soon to talk about next steps. Ultimately legally it's Mom's decision. I'm just the stepmom and I'm not going to be there, which is fine, but... .IDK, I think I just wanted to talk about this and get some feedback. I know there are other parents/steps of anxious kids here so maybe hearing about your experiences would help.

I think back to my own experience as an anxious caretaking kid. It did hit hard around age 10 or so and I didn't get intervention until it blew up in a big way at 16. If that is really the path for SD11's life, then while in a way I can accept that, in a way I don't want us to just sit around NOW being like "At least she's well-behaved, so everything is OK".

And maybe there's something I'm missing about Mom's perspective on this. It's easy for me to look at her actions/motives through the lenses of distrust. Which she has earned    but whatever. I guess whatever Mom's motives, DH & I need to circle back to "What do the kids need?" not "What does Mom need".

So much more but I'll post this here for feedback... .

[livednlearned]

It's so hard being in a step parent role and have so little say-so or power, especially when things seem so darn easy and obvious.

All of SO's kids have anxiety, and so does my own S16.

With S16, he's in therapy and medicated, and still has a hard time.

So I dug around and found a local CBT class for family members of anxious relatives. It seems to be based on a mix of CBT skills and something they call Acceptance & Commitment Therapy. If nothing else, it will help me have a map in those moments when I feel totally lost.

One of the things they recommended we read in advance of the class is a book called Leadership and Self-Deception, which is put out by the Arbinger Institute. In some ways, it's a way to demonstrate how support, empathy, truth (SET) skills work as a story.

With S16, I try to empathize with his anxiety and validate his fears and worries, and very slowly and patiently, guide him toward doing the thing that makes him anxious.

So it's more of a me problem in the sense that I want him to just get over things and do them already. I'm learning how to slow down, be patient and empathetic, and slow down some more, then walk him through his decision-making with a lot of validation, moving him ever so slightly toward the difficult thing.

And then I have to really shut up. I have a tendency to praise him to the point he feels patronized. He's also a pretty tender-hearted and sensitive kid, so there are some genetics in play that might be different than your SD.

Also, this is kinda unrelated, but anxiety is on a big upswing with the iGen generation. There's a book out right now written by a researcher who believes smart phones are having a huge impact on kids. Not just with anxiety, but with all kinds of "emerging adult" issues.

I really think the chronic online stuff is a factor in S16's anxiety.

[kells76]

Thanks for thinking about this, LnL. It sounds like for you, a big part of what made "kid with anxiety" problematic was maybe your anxiety that he was feeling that way?

It hit me the other day that stuff usually got crummy about the kids in Oct/Nov. Blowups, conflicts, lawyers... .either every or every other year around this time since 2011. (I mean, there was stuff the rest of the year, too, but the BIG stuff seemed to be mid-fall). Maybe treatment of SD11's anxiety seems like a big potential conflict because... .that's what I expect around this time of the year.

It's funny how easy it is for me to tell other people to let go of battles, power, anxiety... ."the only person you can control is yourself"... .I mean, it's not that I don't believe it. I do -- it's just hard to tell myself. So thanks for telling me. CBT is a good idea and puts the responsibility back on me to work on my adult skills.

In the past I have definitely felt an emotional association between some of the situations the kids have been in and things that had happened to me at those ages. This is probably another one and a good thing to bring up with our MC -- how do I make sure I'm not projecting some old fears and emotions onto SD11 and then imagining I know exactly what's going on with her.

... .

I'm hoping online stuff isn't a factor right now, and I'm sorry that's been a stressor for you with your son -- from what I've read it sounds like you have to balance his interests and age with what you think is healthy. We don't have (reliable) internet at our place and SD11 hasn't been bringing her phone over lately. I think they do have internet at Mom's; plus, this year for school, SD11 has to have email. No phone use allowed at school which is nice. She has some friends with basically unlimited unsupervised net access at their homes, but as far as I know she hasn't been over there (yet). That door is slowly opening so I guess I will just work on listening.

[livednlearned]

Thanks for thinking about this, LnL. It sounds like for you, a big part of what made "kid with anxiety" problematic was maybe your anxiety that he was feeling that way?

S16 has anxiety because he probably would no matter what, according to his psychiatrist. Then, he has a n/BPD father + divorce. It's a lot  

Psychiatrist says that anxiety is the twin of depression. S16 is genetically predisposed to anxiety.

The way I was responding to S16 was creating more stress, so I've had to figure out how best to respond.

It hit me the other day that stuff usually got crummy about the kids in Oct/Nov. Blowups, conflicts, lawyers... .either every or every other year around this time since 2011. (I mean, there was stuff the rest of the year, too, but the BIG stuff seemed to be mid-fall). Maybe treatment of SD11's anxiety seems like a big potential conflict because... .that's what I expect around this time of the year.

Having BPD pathology in a family, step or otherwise, sure makes the holidays rough

I guess what I'm responding to is that yes, your instincts seem right, that there is heightened anxiety this time of year.
And there is real anxiety (having a BPD mom can't be easy).
And there is only so much we can do as step parents.
And there are some skills that are effective, even if they don't fix things completely.

I feel like I have to learn all of this again each day 

[kells76]

DH met with Mom the other day about SD11 and he feels like it went well. They'd agreed to email each other beforehand with some topics they wanted to talk about, just for a heads up. The one Mom sent to DH was actually fairly complimentary (almost unsettlingly so... .if this were a few years ago I'd think she was planning something). I think she's really trying to the best of her ability.

Anyway, they were on the same page about some stuff... .no meds for SD11 at this point, Mom will try some more changes at her house like regular bedtime, all of us will try to use less "diagnosis" terms like anxiety but instead focus on helping SD11 identify other physical things (feeling like stomach hurts, can't slow down brain, fidgety, etc). Mom was even open to the idea of sending SD11 to sleep at our house if they have something late and loud going on at their place. We'll see if this happens... .part of me is still skeptical (like it's really easy to say that to sound good), but part of me hopes that she'll put her money where her mouth is and follow through.

So why do I still feel so worked up and angry? Is it because finally there's space? Now that things are going a little smoother, it's all coming out? This past week it was like my tolerance for the smallest issues at work was at a 0.5/10. I could feel myself getting hot with frustration at stupid stuff that usually I could handle.

I don't want what's going on with me to derail the kids. I could see it maybe going the direction of "OK, now that you guys can handle it, let's make you do what I think is good so that I feel like things are under control". I mean, it wouldn't be that blatant, but that might be an internal thought process that would flavor what I say and do.

Or maybe this is it -- in the past, I could "hold it together" to "manage" with DH the shenanigans that Mom & Stepdad would throw at us. I had one job -- to take the high road -- and I would grit my teeth and be the better woman and we would Make It Through. So maybe I did a good job at dealing with THEM, but I didn't deal with how I FELT about them. And now that DH and Mom are doing better at working together to help SD11 and there seem to be fewer crises, all that energy of holding it together and dealing with them has nothing to do. So I'm starting to experience how I FEEL about them.

I guess what I need is just a place to talk about this. I don't know if others of you guys have been there -- often so much of our energy goes into dealing with the separation and divorce and legal stuff and staying strong and all, so have any of you sort of made it to the "other side" and instead of feeling better, almost feel... .angrier?

[GaGrl]

Once my DH had worked through with his Ex the fact that, yes, he really was remarrying and yes, that meant he was moving to another city to live with me, and yes, that meant he would no longer be in daily contact and at the constant disposal as uNPD/BPD's not-really-ex-husband/gofer/financial advisor/business consultant/counselor/God only knows what else... .

I looked at where we were, and I became even more resentful and angry than I had been when the Ex was making herself as obnoxious as possible during our engagement and marriage.

Much of it was because I clearly experienced the consequences of DH's PTSD and had to work through that with him (all while he was denying he had PTSD), and he truly has some health issues that are a direct result of years of stress and anxiety.

I would say it probably took about a year for me to relax, get past my anger, and quit expecting the next shoe to drop.

I'm much better now at seeing her PD flares (usually over something related to our granddaughter) and being able to predict the behavior, how long it will last, and not let it trigger me.

[livednlearned]

Can you identify another time when you felt this way? Maybe with different people involved?

What resonates for me is the part about what is left when the conflict de-escalates. I could listen to my own emotions a little better because I wasn't expending so much effort trying to manage the chronic conflict and manipulation.

It's a pretty vulnerable feeling. I admire you for being able to notice it.  

If DH and biomom are working together, do you feel his need for you, or how much attention he gives you, ebbs a bit?

One time SD20 (likely BPD) and SO were talking, not to me or even about me, and I got insanely triggered. And when I followed the emotion, it went back to being a kid feeling competitive (with a uBPD brother) for scarce resources, especially emotional intimacy with a loved one (parents).

I found it embarrassing to recognize such an old, immature feeling   but tried to use it as a force for good.

It's further information that I need emotional intimacy with SO that is independent of anything else going on in our lives. Sometimes having a high-conflict family member can create a closeness that isn't quite the same as what I really crave with SO, which is more vulnerable to ask for.

It was hard to tell him that, and it also brought us closer, even though I see it's my responsibility to ask for what I want.

[kells76]

Hi Gagirl -- that's a good reminder that the process takes time. It's funny, I can identify that with SD11's anxiety, it's a pattern that has taken multiple years to grow, so it's going to take years for her to work on -- and I recognize that & am fine with that. Yet somehow I'm surprised with myself when after "only" a year or so of things actually kind of going better, I'm still angry and still waiting for the other shoe, like you said. Maybe part of my anger is that it's clearly possible for Mom to put in the effort & not disparage DH. Coulda been like that all along, but it wasn't. And now I have 5 years of not really trusting Mom & Stepdad informing how I feel about them.

LnL, let me think about that. Nothing clear is coming to mind but there are some pieces that I think are related.

I know I've resented when in my relationship with DH we have a conflict and it feels like I have to let him have his feelings first before I get to go -- you know? That feeling of "I'll only get my feelings taken care of if I stuff them and make sure others are taken care of first" feeling, if that makes sense. (We are doing better on this with the help of MC ) I can see that I emotionally caretake in some relationships as a way to get my needs met (if you don't feel good, which feels like my job, how can you be there for me, etc). Pretty sure this is related to how I've been feeling angry recently, somehow... .

Another piece is that maybe I haven't processed a lot about Stepdad. He reminds me of my mom's dad who by all accounts was an abusive npd. So I both need to not project onto him what isn't true (Stepdad is not abusive like my mom's dad) but somehow also recognize that Stepdad does project a "perfect empathetic hero" image that most people think is great, while being pretty blind to his egocentricity.

We went to school conferences with him & Mom the other night, and I think I got triggered by how much he just talked about himself and how emotionally supportive he was. It wasn't about him saying "you" to SD11, it was like a stage for him to say "me", if that makes sense.

Then we went to a social function he hosted (trying a good move for the kids), and again, I think I had a hard time with him saying all kinds of great things about how supportive he was of DH but then not doing the exact thing DH had asked him to change (longer story).

So it's hard for me to trust and cooperatively work together with him, even for the kids' sake in this new time of things going well, when I feel like (a) I need to just ignore my anger to do that, because (b) my anger gets triggered by him because I associate him with my mom's dad in some ways.

Wowwwwwww... .Guess there was a liiiiiitle more there than I thought... .

[Panda39]

If DH and biomom are working together, do you feel his need for you, or how much attention he gives you, ebbs a bit?

One time SD20 (likely BPD) and SO were talking, not to me or even about me, and I got insanely triggered. And when I followed the emotion, it went back to being a kid feeling competitive (with a uBPD brother) for scarce resources, especially emotional intimacy with a loved one (parents).

I found it embarrassing to recognize such an old, immature feeling   but tried to use it as a force for good.

I identify with some of this too, but I will throw in that I had some jealousy too... .I know, I know, immature but I felt it, so I'm fessing up  

There we were in the middle of my SO's horrific high conflict separation/divorce... .parental alienation, false allegations of abuse... .the whole nine yards.  My job as the predictable care taker that I was, was to pick up the pieces when things went horribly wrong, support him in the war for his children, and paint the ex black, and be outraged when his kids went through is things... .yes I know it was all dysfunctional stuff but I eventually figured it out but that's another story.

So here we were "us" against "her the uBPDxw" and sometimes against them "the ex and the kids".  I was putting a huge amount of effort and energy in this.

So we are HIGH DRAMA and then one day he takes the ex and the kids to Walmart to go shopping.  I was furious (on the inside... .no I did not go Postal at Walmart  ), in part I was jealous... .what did this mean was he getting back together with his wife?  But also there was some... ."why is consorting with the enemy", mixed in with "good he's getting to spend some much needed time with his kids", "I" am outside of "them" how do I fit in, and resentment I support him against these hurtful people and he's out acting like nothing ever happened?

Can you hear it?  The crying little Panda?  The Panda crying "what about me"?

It took me a while to process the whole thing and talk to my SO about it, and it took me even longer and time spent here to let go of the toxic anger I carried around regarding his ex and his daughters.  I also had to get off the triangle and stop participating in the drama.

kells, I feel like you are much more level headed than I was when first arriving here, but we all feel what we feel.  My suggestion is just sit with your anger for awhile (no, not in a ticking time bomb kind of way  ) and try to articulate it.  What is pushing your button?

Panda39

[kells76]

Hey panda & LnL, I've been thinking about that question -- about whether I resent the attention that DH now gives to Mom as they work together.

I don't think that's a piece of it for me -- at least not directly. For whatever reason (personality, childhood experiences, etc), I (a) do OK when DH goes to meet w/ Mom to discuss stuff (I kind of like alone time!), and (b) the jealousy isn't there (at least not in an identifiable/impactful way). So, at this point, I don't think this anger is connected to jealousy or a lack of attention.

Part of it might be coming from a feeling of powerlessness, which is one of those "old feelings" for me. Or maybe invisibility. Or a combination -- "This destructive thing is going on, and not only can you not stop it, you don't really matter to the situation anyway -- you may as well not be there".

For a while it was Mom (of the two of them, Mom & Stepdad) who was really pushing my buttons. That was in "the bad years"   So I would document what happened with the kids, and I found good web sites (like this one!), and I read helpful books, and I felt like I could sort of DO something about her.

Now a lot of the button pushing for me feels like it's coming from Stepdad. Mom is working on some of her own behaviors with a counselor but Stepdad isn't really leaving his role as hero/rescuer who tells SD11 that she too is a hero/rescuer. Apparently he is writing a book about SD11 in which she is a... .hero/rescuer. Great stuff  

All that being said, whatever other people do, it's my response to it that I need to work on. And when I hear about Stepdad's behaviors, I feel angry. I feel like when we interact, DH & I can literally be in front of him but only as foils to his role. Like, WE don't matter as individuals as much as we matter as characters in the play about Stepdad. That p!sses me off. It's that feeling of "kells76 is here in this situation but CAN'T change the unhealthy thing that's going on and also kells76 doesn't really matter as a person and may as well not be there". Response -- anger and frustration, especially with the factor of him impacting the kids but I feel like I am stuck watching this unfold vs being able to change it.

I think that's where I'm at now, and I'm not really sure where to go with it.

[ForeverDad]

After repeated court cases, each one about 1.5 years long, I now appear to be past court.  My ex still hates me, blames me, but I thought I'd share what eventually happened with my son.  I became Legal Guardian (sole custody) in 2011 and majority time during the school years at the end of 2013.  At that point her entitlement balloon bust and our conflict lessened.  Another factor may have been that he was older.  He was no longer 3, he was approaching 12.  Which ever, conflict was less.  As time went on he spent more and more time at my home.  These days she drops him off when she's working so I get him nearly every day, her overnights a little less.

I recall my lawyer or custody evaluator years ago saying that as children grow into teens then one home becomes their home base and their peers start edging out the parents as their relationships expand and grow.  Do you think SD11 will manage to end up more at your home as the years pass?

[kells76]

Hi again FD!

Conflict is lower for us than it has been in the past. A lot of that has been working with a good counselor for the kids, especially SD11. Apparently Mom is in separate counseling now too (color me amazed... .). Like you said, whatever is going on, less conflict. But I still think the overt conflict was like "grass" growing on the "dirt" of the covert conflict/hatred/false narrative. So as much as it's good for the kids to experience less open conflict & more cooperation, I guess I'm still a little skeptical that Mom & Stepdad have changed their core beliefs (They are the Good Heroes and DH is the Bad Villain). I think that while the grass is shorter, the dirt is still there -- at least the part about being the Good Family.

I've heard the same thing as you about kids not wanting to bounce around between houses as they get older. That is my hope that the kids will make here their home base, but it's hard to believe it'll happen, despite hearing the experiences from folks like panda39 and you and others. I think it would take Stepdad falling off the pedestal that SD11 put him on (as the hero who rescued her real family). SD11 is way more loving with DH now but I think that belief of hers about Stepdad still operates.

There's a lot of my own anxiety wrapped up in all this, I'm sure.