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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: UBPDw just informed me she has cancer stage one  (Read 486 times)
Chicken Soup
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« on: November 10, 2017, 08:42:43 PM »

Would like some advice on how to deal with this.

I was waiting to divorce her after the kids left home.  Right now, oldest out  of college, middle one in college, youngest a senior in high school.  Hadn't gotten any further than looking up lawyers.  She's a stay at home mom.

When she told me, she said that no one - me, our sons, her Mom - liked her much.  I told her that I had stuck around all these years and that I did care about her.  Her response, "you stuck around for the kids."

I've managed to keep myself grounded all these years.  My sons understand the difficulties dealing with Mom.  I have a good job and the respect of my peers. 

I'm not a new member.  I've been hanging around these boards since 2011.  I'd like to keep grounded and any advice is appreciated.  Thanks.
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formflier
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« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2017, 08:27:31 AM »



When she told me, she said that no one - me, our sons, her Mom - liked her much.  I told her that I had stuck around all these years and that I did care about her.  Her response, "you stuck around for the kids."
 

How do you respond to her "mind reading"?  This used to be a huge part of my r/s.  Still is from time to time. 

I usually respond by asking "Are you asking me how I feel about you?"... .perhaps saying in a friendly way  "Ohh goodness, I'm confused are you talking about your feelings or my feelings?"

Stay friendly... .be authentic (it really is confusing when people ascribe feelings to you... that you don't have).

Stay away from denials... .JADE... any of that.

OK... .as to the cancer.  Keep things in separate buckets.  Support her cancer fight  (bucket 1)... use healthy behaviors to "deal with" BPDish behavior. (bucket 2).   Maintain appropriate boundaries (bucket 3). 

Resist efforts to rationalize it being ok for her to "lash out" because she has cancer.

FF
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GaGrl
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« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2017, 09:05:30 AM »

What do you know personally about the cancer diagnosis and the recommended treatment plan? Have you been brought into the treatment plan discussion with her medical team yet?
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"...what's past is prologue; what to come,
In yours and my discharge."
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« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2017, 02:08:43 PM »

Thank you formflier for your advice.  Spot on.  I need to re-learn the basics on dealing with BPDish behavior.

Her cancer diagnosis is Stage I.  After Thanksgiving, the current treatment plan is lumpectomy, followed by chemo, with a possibility of radiation.  I have not been brought into the treatment plan discussion with her medical team.  I'm not sure she'll let me in on that discussion.  I noticed that she had been hiding the Explanation of Benefits from our insurance company.

I really need to re-learn the basics of understanding BPD.  I don't understand this "I need you, but stay away" way of dealing with those close to you.

Thank, CS
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formflier
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« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2017, 05:06:55 PM »


Are we talking about breast cancer?

Do you know if it is one spot or couple places?


Can you access the EOBs yourself?  Online perhaps?

How long has she known?

What have you said to her so far? 

In general... .this is a place/an issue to be proactive on.  Knowing that you may be rebuffed... .

What would "proactive" look like for you/from you.

FF
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Chicken Soup
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« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2017, 07:49:29 PM »

Yes, we're talking about breast cancer.  Since she's having a lumpectomy, I assume it's in one spot.  She said they would also take out some lymph nodes to see if there's cancer in them.  She gave me the EOBs after she told me the news Friday night.

I think's she's know about her diagnosis for about a week or two.  She's told a couple close friends.  She said she only told me because of insurance purposes (we get insurance through my work).

I told her I was ready to help.  At this point, she seems reluctant to accept my help.  She brings up previous arguments we've had as evidence that I don't care about her.  She has also said words to this effect about her Mom and our our three adult sons.

You're right, this is a place/issue to be proactive.  If I get rebuffed, I won't take it personally.  I understand she's scared out of her mind about this diagnosis.  She has a bunch of decisions to make.  I'll be there to support her.  I'll learn more skills to deal with her and the cancer.

Thank you again FF.
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« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2017, 08:01:19 PM »

  She brings up previous arguments we've had as evidence that I don't care about her.  She has also said words to this effect about her Mom and our our three adult sons.

 

How do you answer/respond when this kind of thing is said?

If you are going to be proactive (which you should), you should also anticipate the "go to" BS that she tosses out and be ready to smoothly say something "healthy" and move right on along. 

You don't want to ignore stuff like this, but don't get mired up in a side show about "evidence" of other peoples feelings.

FF
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« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2017, 09:07:57 PM »

@Chicken Soup, I am in the same boat as you, my wife (u/BPD) has kidney cancer, .she pushes me away, and then pulls me back in, I spend about 50/50 on her good side, and bad side, .it’s exhausting, I like you want to help her what I can, and when I am in her good graces, it’s alright, but when she has me in her cross hairs, it’s very frustrating... .she is also very worried right now, as well am I, and anytime I do not (fail to) act as she precieves I should, accordingly, .then it woe betide for me, I am retired military, and she excused herself from her state job, so she is on my insurances... .I have to say this, it often befuddles me that she treats me the way she does, albiet she is completely and totally dependent upon me... .this I will never understand.

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“We are so used to our own history, we do not see it as remarkable or out of the ordinary, whereas others might see it as horrendous. Further, we tend to minimize that which we feel shameful about.” {Quote} Patrick J. Carnes / author,
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« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2017, 10:01:58 PM »

FF - your right, I've seen her "go to" BS these last couple of days.  She's reading everyone's mind, and has figured out how they'll react/feel when she tells them.

This is awful - to have so little trust in your family that you don't think they'll help you. 

I need to talk to her doctor(s) and see if they can have someone who can talk to her.  This stuff is getting out of my league.
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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2017, 06:16:16 AM »

Hi Chicken Soup,

It isn’t an easy place to be in for sure. I may have a perspective on how to handle it... .

I work in cancer treatment. Lumpectomy + chemo + radiation is the standard of care for low stage breast cancer so that sounds correct.

My BPDw’s father, who I suspect to be an uNPD, was diagnosed with two separate cancers within 1 year time about 3 years ago. The effect of the diagnosis has been noticeable on him and my wife. Simply put: more denial, more manipulation, more non-equilibrium.

I think FormFliers comment on buckets is right on target. And I would add that I wouldn’t even try to jump into the cancer bucket at all. It’s a no win bucket in my opinion. I would try to defer that bucket to her medical team so as to avoid any possible way for her to use your words/actions against you. I would suggest you offer to “be there” whenever she needs and no more detail. Empathy for major events, or diagnoses such as cancer, is difficult at best for anyone and as a cancer professional I’ve seen all sorts of patient coping mechanisms. I think lending an ear as you would anyone else going through the same situation should help you find a equilibrated path to follow with your wife.

During the last 3 years, I can count on one hand (actually less!) the number of times my BPDw or uNPD father in law have wanted to talk about what is going on etc. Rather the diagnosis is the invisible pink elephant in the room that gives either one of them further justification for their unjustifiable actions.

In summary, find something/s to say to empathize with the situation and then focus on buckets 2 and 3.

LAT
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« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2017, 02:10:29 AM »

My husband has had a number of health issues but mostly his heart for the last 8 years. It is a total trigger and amplifies the BPD issues. He has been through a lot and it does seem like there was one physical issue after another. Over the last year his drs have done nothing but make him feel worse. He is at the point that he is knocked out from walking from the car to the house.  He just cannot function because of his heart and emotionally he ends up dismantling any kind of interactions he once had or could have. He depends on me for literally everything, and 98% of the time he shows no appreciation, nor does he seem to care much about how much stress all of it puts on me. We have had countless arguments about it but over time with his illnesses it is just a mute issue on my side. I can just never win or "prove myself" with him.  I know that he is so beaten down that he just wants to die most days. He did try to do it himself before which ended up creating a bunch of other problems. It is a terrible way to live. I feel so bad for him but I also end up resenting him for how he acts. I often wonder if the mental/personality issues contributed to his physical issues over the years.

Breast cancer is treatable and has a good record as long as it is found early. That is a good thing, which of course your wife most likely would not want to hear. I find that my husband in some ways likes to use his physical illnesses to get attention and to find ways to control or attack others- usually me.

Hopefully she will be treated and cured. I am sure you will do what you can, and most likely like other BPds she will not really see it or appreciate it as she should. It is a sad way to live and so sad to have to live our lives in their web of unregulated emotions.
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« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2017, 10:05:26 AM »

Sorry to hear about the situation.  since I am new to BPD, just suspected my GF is a uBPD a few weeks back, I'm rapidly coming up to speed.

 A different relationship end with the death of that GF from triple negative (not estrogen, protester in or Her2NU positive) breat cancer, which was rare but becoming more common, and is VERY aggressive and difficult to treat.

I think you need to understand what the situation really is based on what kind of breast cancer she has been disagnosed with.  Obviously, if it is tripe negative, that is pretty serious.  If is is one of the other three I-listed-above positive, there are conventional therapies and the outlook is promising although there are downsides, depending on her situation.  Ductal institute  tumors are much less threatening (but still scary to the patient) and much more treatable and the outlook is usually promising.  Keep in mind that the medical establishment likes to manage the statistics.  Get a basal cell, yes it is malignant, almost always removed with no issues, and yes, you had cancer. Guess that makes you a survivor and makes the overall stats much rosier. 

Your response likely needs to be different based on the situation really as to how serious it really is, not on how it can be played up to you.  I have read references that a BPD will use illness to their advantage and some even initiate illness for that purpose.  How likely is it that your BPD is using this out of proportion to the actual situation is your question.

As usual, take most things in life with a grain of salt. As a fire captain once said to me, "don't worry, when the ___ really hits the fan, you'll know it instantly. Then you can react to it."

Keep the faith!
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Chicken Soup
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« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2018, 09:22:32 PM »

One more chemo treatment.

My involvement has been paying the doctors, making her favorite foods, and sometimes a trip to her chemo when she can't drive home herself. 

The hard part is putting up with her when her Mom's around.  Her Mom gets her stirred up (who does that to someone battling cancer?) and the sh*t rolls downhill to me and my sons.

As for boundaries, sometimes the physical ones - like heading off to work - at the best ones.

Thank you all for your kind words.
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AskingWhy
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« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2018, 09:56:14 PM »

Would like some advice on how to deal with this.

I was waiting to divorce her after the kids left home.  Right now, oldest out  of college, middle one in college, youngest a senior in high school.  Hadn't gotten any further than looking up lawyers.  She's a stay at home mom.

When she told me, she said that no one - me, our sons, her Mom - liked her much.  I told her that I had stuck around all these years and that I did care about her.  Her response, "you stuck around for the kids."

I've managed to keep myself grounded all these years.  My sons understand the difficulties dealing with Mom.  I have a good job and the respect of my peers. 

I'm not a new member.  I've been hanging around these boards since 2011.  I'd like to keep grounded and any advice is appreciated.  Thanks.

When you are the target of your MIL's abuse and that of your W, that is projection.  These women are projecting there rage, hurt and upset over the diagnosis and treat and throwing it in your direction.

I know it well.   When uBPD/uNPD H has a bad day at work, he tend to project on the only person in the house:  me.

As for the comment about, "You only stayed for the kids," this may be partially right as you were seriously pondering leaving as you were that unhappy.  It is also a "poor me" comment.  "Oh, no one cares about me!" is a really BPD way of looking at things.

My H never really appreciates all I do for him.  Much like the child he is emotionally, he takes my efforts for granted:  making healthy meals, offering health tips, endless research, etc. b This evening I reminded him to take some of his medicine and handed him one of his tablets.  Literally seconds later, he raged,  "We have nothing in common.  You never do anything for me!  This marriage is over as far as I'm concerned."

So very BPD. 

 
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Red5
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« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2018, 09:11:50 AM »


*My involvement has been paying the doctors, making her favorite foods, and sometimes a trip to her chemo when she can't drive home herself. 

*The hard part is putting up with her when her Mom's around.  Her Mom gets her stirred up (who does that to someone battling cancer?) and the sh*t rolls downhill to me and my sons.

*As for boundaries, sometimes the physical ones - like heading off to work - are the best ones.

Wow Chicken Soup,

The three bullets above from your last post, I can totally relate as I am going through the exact same thing right now with my own u/BPD wife.

My u/BPDw is on the outs with her own FOO mum, and to top all that off, foo/mum has remarried, and u/BPDw is NOT happy about it, but wait there's more, foo/mums new husband has stage four esophageal cancer, and is taking treatments in the same facility as my u/BPDw... .fireworks & dysregulations is an understatement to describe what has been happening of recent... .and now resultant in her having a blowout/slip the rail event with one of her other foo/sisters over these issues... .she has given myself, and this particular foo/sis the "(BPD) business" during her own cancer treatments, .the drama is non-stop... .I get pushed away, and then its the foo/sis's turn... .she trades us off, back and forth, as to whom/who she has split at that moment in time... .whom she seeks support from... .not very nice imho, .to be treating husband and foo/fam this way, .right now I am the support, but that could change in just a few minutes, or hours depending on her mood, .she has actually let me sitting in a running vehicle in the hospital parking lot and walked off in a rage (yes!)... .

I made myself a boundary a while back, .say; when I am going to (scheduled to support) take her the three hours away for her doctor visits, or the more local ones; but she gets into my grill over something (sabotage), .then I am done with it, .no more support, she is now on her own;... .  as I am quite done being abused in this sense... .I try to be empathetic, but abuse is abuse, I will no longer tolerate her verbal onslaughts at me anymore, .and now, she has no more backup, as foo/sis & mum are now split black... .another thing she will do is dysregulate (come unglued) in the vehicle on the way to, or return trip, and then I am trapped in the vehicle with her, no escape... .not fun, .so boundary, .no more of that in the vehicle (trapped) BPD business... .done !

So I just continue to be the caretaker... .I pay the bills, provide the "support", but no more helping out if she bites my hand, she wants to be like this, then I will let her be, no more rescuing... .this is all quite exhausting, and perplexing to have to deal with the BPD, on top of the cancer diagnoses, as well foo/family drama's of her own making, .contiunuosly.

I too, .very much value my "time away", ie' work... .

Hope things get better for you Chicken Soup,

Best regards, Red5

 

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