At what point did you say, "enough is enough?"

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I'm not asking for anyone to tell me what I should do though I am struggling with it. I am asking what was the straw at which you said the verbal and physical abuse was too much to continue this way and you called it quits.

Thanks,
5min

[5min]

I'm not asking for anyone to tell me what I should do though I am struggling with it. I am asking what was the straw at which you said the verbal and physical abuse was too much to continue this way and you called it quits.

Thanks,
5min

[formflier]

Only you can answer that question for you.  I'm assuming you are saying/asking "enough is enough" meaning you call it quits on the relationship.

That's something for you to reflect on for a long time.

"In the meantime" I would suggest that you say "enough is enough" to abusive behavior.  That's easy for me to recommend that YOU no longer put up with that.  Realizing that your decision may "trigger" a decision by the other party to essentially say this r/s "is no longer working for me" and they may leave.

The extra benefit of no longer "participating" in the abuse is that you will be able to think and reflect more clearly on your relationship, without a "fresh" wound... or argument swaying you one way or another.

Can you share a recent example of what happened and what you did?  Perhaps we can help you find a better way.

Hang in there.

FF

[SamwizeGamgee]

5Min - If your life is like mine, there might not be a single proverbial straw that breaks your back. But, I think of myself as surveying the landscape.  I have started tallying up what I know about right now. Then I have started adding one, three, five, ten years to what "now" would look like.  I think I've studied enough to know what has been tried, what has failed, what is so unlikely to succeed that it counts a failed.  I think I can tell the future enough to know that I can't fix, change, or control important parts of it.  And I don't think I can survive it. I certainly can't say I'll thrive with the passing of years in the same situation.

If you are suffering physical abuse, I would say that's the end right there.  Verbal and emotional abuse might change with awareness and training, but, at least for me, I have to not hold much hope for much change.  I find that my uBPDw is not atypical for BPD, and they are amazingly predictable in some regards.  She will feel responsibility or remorse for a few days, and then the projection will re-emerge and it won't be her "fault."  Therefore, the emotional chaos - the blame, projection, shame, unahppiness - will be constant companions in our marriage.

I find that I'm quitting by small degrees, not in one fell swoop after which I say "I quit."  Some people do have an "ah-ha!" moment and then they know.  For me though, it is a gradual realization, and even more gradual response by me.  One baby step after another I find that I am right when I follow my gut. 

[5min]

I am asking what was your threshold. I am part of the problem in that I am a procrastinator and avoider. That comes from my childhood and am working on it. It is not every time there is an episode, but when it escalates, the abuse consists of hitting me in the head with whatever is in her hand, kicking, slapping, hair pulling, clawing, etc. Sometimes she goes off slapping herself. I can not physically leave when that happens or she goes totally berserk. It does not matter what I say, she twist it into what she wants. Every problem in her life (job, kids, etc) is my fault. Every movie, book, etc is twisted into how the characters are so much better a man/husband/father than I. There is the blowing up my phone all day and the continual coloring me as the demon. I see no hope.

[formflier]

I can not physically leave when that happens or she goes totally berserk. It does not matter what I say, she twist it into what she wants. 

Is it your responsibility that she NOT go bezerk?

And... .since it doesn't matter what you say... (which I believe is likely)... .why say anything?  Seriously... .leave the situation and let the "fuel" burn itself out.

She will be pissed and berserk... .and you will be blissfully unaware... .somewhere else.

After she begins to understand that her shenanigans no longer work... the "temp" will likely start coming down.

Ok... .how long has the slapping... hair pulling... etc etc been going on?  How many times has that happened?

What have you done about it so far?  Results of that?

Have you called 911 or threatened to call?

   

FF

[SamwizeGamgee]

We're all different.  I think unhealthy partners might sense what they can and can't get away with. 

I seem to put up with rejection, silent treatment, frustration, projection, isolation, withholding sex, and so forth.  I know some guys wouldn't put up with that treatment.  The very minute I got hit in the head, hair pulled, or hit - I'd be calling the police, getting a restraining order, and changing the locks.  Maybe that's for everyone's good that I don't get physical abuse because I might retaliate, against my better judgement.

Your call.

[formflier]

 
SamwizeGamgee made an incredibly important point.  A point that I think could be expanded on a bit.

I'm certain (agreeing with Sam) that our partners get a sense from us of what they can get away with.  I would expand and say that we likely "trained" them on what was and wasn't ok based on our reactions and actions.

I'm not suggesting we set out to train them, but... .think about it... .we are treated the way we are treated, by and large, because of what we "allow" in our life.  I get it that our partners play a role in this, but I would submit that we play a larger role. 

One of my "big picture" goals for you is to be reflective about the life and relationship you want to have and then go about making choices to get that relationship.  And... .if that means someone you care about goes berserk... .that you understand that is their choice and not YOUR responsibility.

FF

[Lucky Jim]

the abuse consists of hitting me in the head with whatever is in her hand, kicking, slapping, hair pulling, clawing, etc.

Hey 5min, You can't go on like this, needless to say.  :)o you have any close friends or family members with whom you can confide?  It's critical to avoid isolation, because without the support of others you can lose all perspective.  Also, you might want to call your local domestic violence hotline to find out what sort of help they might offer.

My concern is the potential for things escalating, at which point you might find yourself under arrest.  Suggest you keep an overnight bag in your car so you are ready to leave if necessary.  I spent many a night at the local motel, so I've been down this path before you.

LuckyJim

[enlighten me]

As others have said its down to the individual. For me I sat on the fence waiting for the one big blow up that would give me an excuse to leave and be justified. I finally realised I wouldn't get it. There where lots of little digs and constant put downs but nothing that you could point to and say that's the one. I had to look at the big picture and see that when put together all the little things added up to more than enough for me to call it a day.

I think this is half the problem that a lot of us face. We feel we need to justify breaking up with an undeniable event. But even those we wash over and can be talked around and made to feel guilty. The "a real man would... ." statement would always make me doubt myself. In the end you have to decide whether you want to carry on with how things are or make a clean break.

[formflier]

I too have spent many a night in a hotel, after I decided to exit conflict. 

I can luckily say that I haven't had to do that in a  long time.  Perhaps 1.5 years... maybe 2.  I'd have to look.

My wife hated it... mocked me... .suggested I get an apartment to save money if I was going to "run away"... ."hide"... .etc etc

I want to second what Lucky Jim said... .this can't go on.  I think you get that... .otherwise you wouldn't be here looking for answers.

I would also say... .just as strenuously that you shouldn't change anything for a week or two.  There are many issues to think through... start to finish.

It's not just enough to bring in others to "shine light" on the situation (which you should do)... .but you need to be ready for that to be "inflaming"... .and may result in you leaving the house for the first time or calling the police for first time or... .(fill in blank).

Planning is critical...

FF

[5min]

Formflier, I get what you are saying. It is not my responsibility to keep her from going berserk. It is better for everyone if she does not. I have spent nights in hotels and away. In everyone one of those instances, she was violent before and/or during my exit.

I've tried boundaries and retraining but those all result in escalation.

Lucky Jim and  Sam, I do worry about it escalating to the point of the authorities being involved. Based on advice here, I have photos, audio, and actual items broken over my head from her outbursts. I have a running list of events and details over the last few years. I keep all of that away from the house. And I worry about my reaction to her outbursts.

When she is not raging, I feel empathy and sadness for the childhood and 1st marriage that contributed to her BPD. In those moments, I love her. When she is acting out, I feel nothing more than a desire for her to be out of my life. I am on an antidepressant, which for me has removed the anxiety and cleared my head to see the situation for what it is. Many of us feel that when things are bad they are extremely bad and then when they are good that they are incredibly good. What I see now through clearer eyes is that the bad is so extreme that some semblance of normal (read what is expected from a civilized person) is so different from the bad that it feels incredibly good. But in essence, it is what should be normal. That normal is what I picture but I have no hope of living it in this relationship.

[formflier]

  It is better for everyone if she does not. I have spent nights in hotels and away. In everyone one of those instances, she was violent before and/or during my exit.

Can you go into great detail and describe one of these instances.  Give some backstory about the "issue" and then he said she said... .he did she did up until you left.  Also describe how things were when you came back.

I certainly don't want to say anything that would resemble a judgement or specific advice about this situation without understanding how you got to the point of getting something smashed on you... .or getting smacked... .or whatever happened.
 
In your example... .please point out when your boundaries were violate and what actions you perceived to be boundary enforcement.

Hang in there man... .you have found a good place that can help you sort this out.

FF

[Red5]

Quick and to the point, the “no-go checklist”.
#1.) unfaithfulness, audultry, sexual betrayal.
#2.) physical violence, bodily harm, or direct credible threat therof.
#3.) direct, and complete financial sabotage, of family security assets, with prejudice.
#4.) sabotage, attack of professional career, ie’ an attack, on my career out of spite, with willful destructive intentions.

Yeah, that would seal the deal, end game.

[morningagain]

5min,
to answer your original question... .
it wasn't the first time she hit me
nor the second
it wasn't the first time she bit me
nor the second
it wasn't the first time she had me arrested on false accusations
nor the second
it wasn't when i found out the charges, though dismissed, were forever on my record for inexpensive background services
it wasn't when i went bankrupt because my entire life was consumed with trying to cope, trying to fix her
it wasn't when I could not see a therapist because she hounded and berated me and demanded to know what was discussed
it wasn't the first time i made up my mind to leave
nor the second
it wasn't when she held a knife at my chest and i pleaded with her to do it
it wasn't the 900th time she or the 2000th time she spun my head n circles accusing, gas-lighting, etc.
it wasn't the first time I yelled so loudly back at her the walls shook
nor the second
it wasn't after i lost custody of my son and he went back to my first wife, only to flunk out of high school after being an honor student
it wasn't when my two daughters refused to see me anymore
it wasn't when she talked about purchasing a firearm - but that WAS the first time I settled absolutely in my mind there was a circumstance in which I would leave absolutely without question
it wasn't the first time she took a bottle of pills
or the second
it wasn't when she was committed to the psych ward only to talk her way out in one week when she had been committed for a minimum of 30 days.
it wasn't when she came home then, and announced she was not going to attend the DBT classes - but that WAS when I went dead inside, and gave up hope.
it was about 8 or 9 months after that... .
since then, it took two years to forgive her, and it has taken me 5+ years to get to the point that i think i have given myself permission to forgive myself for hurting my children

take care of yourself, for the sake of everyone you love, for them, and for you - the two reasons are inseparable - i could not think straight enough to follow my own moral compass because i did not value or love myself enough, and the result was my actions hurt those i loved most dear, my children, and my BPD wife - her and i were destructive to each other.

[startrekuser]

We're all different.  I think unhealthy partners might sense what they can and can't get away with. 

I seem to put up with rejection, silent treatment, frustration, projection, isolation, withholding sex, and so forth.  I know some guys wouldn't put up with that treatment.  The very minute I got hit in the head, hair pulled, or hit - I'd be calling the police, getting a restraining order, and changing the locks.  Maybe that's for everyone's good that I don't get physical abuse because I might retaliate, against my better judgement.

Your call.

You sound just like me!  I put up with all that stuff and some.

[so_overit]

I am asking what was the straw at which you said the verbal and physical abuse was too much to continue this way and you called it quits.
Thanks,
5min

Counselor asked me to start journaling. Seeing it in print really made me open my eyes. Early this year there was a situation with our family camping. Kids and I inside tent, the BPDh raging outside the tent. Felt like he was a bear and we were inside about to get eaten. I told him to find a seasonal job that offered room/board (he's a chef, this is doable).

He was gone all summer with occasional time home (1-2 days at a time). There was an obvious relief in the home, like the black negativity was gone, and only came back when he returned.

Final straw though, was about 3 mos into the 'break'. He went into a rage that was more intense than we'd ever seen. He said some things that were so hateful and vile to me, that I just could not get past. He left again for 3 weeks travel, when he returned it was even worse. Then one night he just calmly said, "I hate you. I hate those kids." He was not in a rage. He did not have his 'mean face' on, he just calmly said it. I thanked him, because he gave me the final nail on the proverbial coffin I needed... .

And that my friend, was my 'had enough'.

[so_overit]

I would expand and say that we likely "trained" them on what was and wasn't ok based on our reactions and actions.

I have a quote typed out and taped to my monitor, "You teach people how to treat you, by what you will and won't accept."

[so_overit]

I spent many a night at the local motel, so I've been down this path before you.
LuckyJim

Oh my gosh Lucky Jim, I was looking thru photos on my camera (it holds a TON, so there is like a year on there). It was crazy how many photos I have of my kids in hotel rooms! It hit me like a ton of bricks. Our constant escape... .in the past year, to hotels!

[insideoutside]

For me, after being let down for the umpteenth time.  He always asked to meet up, never me (long distance friends) and as the dates approached he would pull the plug on it.  He had no awareness of how much arranging I had to do to make plans to see him (plan to stay with relatives, 2 hour drive etc etc) and no apology every came forward.  I warned him if he done it to me again that would be the last time I would speak to him.  We had a huge fallout over it in March as I was so angry he had done it again, harsh words were said on both sides and we haven't spoken since.

Edited to say, my pwBPD and I were just friends but the push/pull, ST and manipulative behaviour became tiresome after 18 months of it.  I certainly would not put up with any physical abuse where I was run from my own home for fear of what may happen and have to crash in a hotel.  Life is too short to be living in fear like that.  That's not living, and barely existing.

[ozmatoz]

5min, you are in a good place and with friends here.  I am going through the exact same thing at this time.  I seem to have a little less physical abuse than others.  I did experience some pushing, shoving, trips on the stairs until one night it got bad and D16 called the cops.  She ended up getting arrested.  Charges dismissed but yes they are still on her record and she states I am 100% to blame and should have been in jail too.  She's been careful since, although she has pushed and lightly punched me as well as blocked me in a room, I think she knows 1 more call to the cops and she's in real trouble.

I would have thought that to be "the straw" but no, much like many on here its just little drips at a time.  My uBPDw is extremely verbally abusive and I find that harder to deal with. I am constantly called a loser, worthless, terribly father, piece of s--t because she has to work part time to send D16 to private school... .drip

She's constantly threatened to get me fired (of course this goes against her notion that I need to provide and its extremely important to keep health care for D10). drip

She's alienated my parents who have helped us in immeasurable ways both financially and with the kids over the years.  My mother basically called her out on some of her behaviors a month ago and she hasn't been able to see the kids since. drip

Now she refuses to give me any money from her paychecks saying that she already earns her keep because she takes care of the kids and groceries...   I've pleaded with her that we need her paychecks to pay for her car, school, utilities... .  Says I need to take her to court if I want any of her money... .drip, drip, drip.

I could go on, there are so many more bits and pieces.  I find that during my moments of clarity I step back and go what the heck am I thinking?  Then life continues and I have to get the kids to the bus, dogs need to be fed... .blah blah life gets in the way and I am left living in a miserable existence.

She often hides behind the kids needs.  Can't cut off the debit/credit cards because the kids need things... of course then I see a bunch of amazon purchases... .

Only you can decide when you've had enough though.  The only thing I am consistant with in my life is how much I waiver on that decision.  I've been threatend with a scorched earth divorce, yet the only way to stay married in her eyes is if I go back to being her servant.  I imagine many on here have come out of the FOG only to have their r/s w/BPD decide that the relationship no longer works for them.  You then get the really crazy behaviour because the ending of a relationship sort of forces them to confront some of their fears... .which never ends well.

Take care of yourself, and please find time to see an attorney, you have far more legal protections available to you that you may think, or that she will lead you to believe.

Good luck,
-Oz

[Lucky Jim]

morningagain: Thanks for your moving post, much of which was quite familiar to me.

i could not think straight enough to follow my own moral compass because i did not value or love myself enough, and the result was my actions hurt those i loved most dear, my children, and my BPD wife - her and i were destructive to each other.

Right, the foundation for my recovery has been learning to love and accept myself, just the way I am.  I lost myself for a while there in the throes of marriage to my BPDxW.

5 min:

What I see now through clearer eyes is that the bad is so extreme that some semblance of normal (read what is expected from a civilized person) is so different from the bad that it feels incredibly good. But in essence, it is what should be normal. That normal is what I picture but I have no hope of living it in this relationship.

Agree, the nightmare becomes the new normal, and the brief intervals of peace seem like nirvana, yet it doesn't take long for the other shoe to drop again.  As I said above:

It's critical to avoid isolation, because without the support of others you can lose all perspective.

Are you working on an exit strategy?  The abuse you describe is, to me, unacceptable.

LuckyJim

[Red5]

Life is too short to be living in fear like that.  That's not living, and barely existing.

Ok, that “struck a nerve”…

I really do not have anyone to talk to... .to "vent to"... .other than my co-worker and this website, we (my co-worker) have known each other for many years, in the service, and now in civilian career(s)... .and what you said in your post, is what I hear (above quote)... .I also hear, "you’re a better man for putting up with that, I could not do that"... ."life is too short man".

As far as “physical”… there has been face slapping, pushing, and aggressive “overtures”… ie’ wine thrown into my face, several times… then she complains about the stains it made on the back porch door… cigarette smoke blown into my face, things smashed and thrown into the trash bin… blocking entrance/exit from a space, keeping me awake, as in coming into my “retreat space” and continuing to rage… this is what I can remember… in your face stuff, no respect for “ok I’ve had enough, you need to back off now”…

I have of late been comparing / a compilation of sorts of my memories, of the past seven years, and also what I can remember about our "dating" all the way back to two thousand and seven, .and then I heard a person on the radio this morning say (a Winston Churchill quote no less), ."‘The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see." (?)... .wow!... .again… “that struck a nerve”.

I think I should start “journaling” also… I did this in my first marriage, and it did help me in the end 3rd quarter of the 21 year tour to keep moving forward with that divorce, one of the toughest decision I have ever had to make in my life.

I ramble… according to her (u/BPD wife) behavioral history, and what I have thus far experienced, factoring her age (-51), and what I have seen (learned) about her family history, and (watched for myself) her families personality construct / behaviors… in real time (last Thanksgiving was pretty interesting)… as I look into the future, why would it ever get any better.

Yeah, another, "if you don't learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"... .I have been calling what I go through the "que", the constant cycle of push/pull, cycle up, then cycle right back down again, and each time I (we) go down, the "G" forces make it harder each time to "come back up"... .“pull myself back up”;… and then to accept her cycle up as everything is ok again, nothing to see hear, this never happened, and I should just forget what happened, yet again (and again and again and again), knowing full well, she will cycle back down again in 7- 10 days… as in there has been a freight train load of mean and downright despicable things said, and as well actions over the years, and I too have joined in at times in a vain attempt to stand up for myself (defend) - (JADE)-my own version of “extermination burst”.

My memory has begun to fade a bit, I cannot remember everything, but I do remember the worst of the worst, I am kind of numb now, as in this is the normal, the “norm”, this is the way it’s going to be, and there is nothing I can do to fix it, or change her (reality)… Have I trained her to treat me like this, I say no, she was like this before I married her, it was hidden, and I do marvel at how she managed to do this for a few years… but I was too naive to understand at the time, despite just ending a previous dysfunctional marriage that lasted 20+ years…

Today marks our "one week anniversary" of yet another bout of the “silent treatment” (ST)... .what was the fight about this time, what could I have done to prevent, I really don’t even care anymore… I am tired, I am tired of raising the ship form the bottom of the harbor, just to have it sink yet again.

Let’s make a checklists (!):
*has she ever thrown her wedding dress away, yes, several times.
*has she ever rippe dup our wedding photos, and then DEMAND I replaced then, yes, several times.
*has she ever thrown her wedding bands into the ash tray, or at me, or into the trash bin, yes, several times.
*has she ever told me that she loathes me, hates me, yes, several times.
*has she ever told me that she hates my special needs (autism) Son, yes, several times.
*has she ever acted out, as a mean drunk, all out destruct mode, yes, several times.
*does she slam doors, yes, all the time.
*does she demand that I sleep on the couch, yes, multiple/many/uncountable times.
*does she profess to hate my own mother, yes, multiple/many/uncountable times.
*does she invalidate me, dysregulate to me, and run me down emotionally, yes, multiple/many/uncountable times.
*am I "moderately" depressed, yes (took the test, and am now on the BPDfam pie chart), multiple/many/uncountable times.

ok, that's enough for now... .this is starting to get to me... .usually I am pretty good at keeping my head "above the water"... .and fighting off depression, and the anxiety that my (our) predicament brings to my (our) everyday lives, but sometimes, it feels like a tooth ache in the extreme cold weather (dull pounding in my head and heart), as in bad, and like creeping cold weather, it slowly invades my mind, my inner self (protected), and even settles into my bones (so to speak)… and I cannot shake it…

Yeah, I got a bag packed, for both my Son and me, .Sometimes I just grab him and go… like to know how many miles I have put on my vehicle “escaping” her rage, and wrath… Utterly exhausting, disruptive, and numbing to have to keep on doing this.

It does get old… then what? 

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Red5, It's exhausting to pull oneself up off the floor again after another round of abuse.  You don't deserve to be treated that way.

I will ask you the same question I asked 5min: are you working on an exit strategy?  Many people of this Board fear the unknown, with good reason, but I've discovered that the unknown is where greater happiness can be found.

LJ

[Red5]

Hey Red5, It's exhausting to pull oneself up off the floor again after another round of abuse.  You don't deserve to be treated that way.

I will ask you the same question I asked 5min: are you working on an exit strategy?  Many people of this Board fear the unknown, with good reason, but I've discovered that the unknown is where greater happiness can be found.

LJ

@Luck Jim,
Yes, I have, well had (exit strategy)... .I have gone through all the obligatory "gone to see a lawyer", to even a "trail" separation a year into the marriage + marriage counseling while she was living back in her own home (six months). She has (countless times) packed up her gear, and threatened to leave since that period, to the point I just say (think) whatever... .this has not happened in a while, although she did start the planning process to moving with her mother, or sister, that blow out was about 6-8 weeks ago now.

But this last year, she has resigned her job, and sold her home due to illness, so now she is completely dependent on me, and of course, I have the obligation to take care of her (FOG)... .even though she cannot stop her behaviors, which are mostly towards my Son, then I intervene to protect him from her, this is the solid, most used igniter... .she just cannot seem to give that up, take it easy, and just be happy, .no, she has to act like a total "Ms. Trunchbull"... .if its not that, its something else, ie' my mother is coming to visit, her mother is driving her crazy, her ex-boss this, her sister that... .well, I had a plan, and I have been pushed right up and just over the line to executing it (Wing Attack Plan R)... .but since the best solution/decision was for her to move back into her own home, and continue with her career, file for separation, and then await a year to divorce, has been dismantled, .I (we) really do not have a plan (exit), unless she has come up with something since she has holed herself up in the office since last Wednesday night... .we have not spoken a word since... .time will tell, .and the cycle continues ... .for now.

As for fear of the unknown, I am good, as I have divorced before, been there, and done that, .so has she, .and I was a single father on my own with my teenagers at that time, for five years, completely independent... .so the only real fear I have is financial and also medical insurance for her... .as she is not working now, and I am the sole bread winner/insurance... .and as she sold her former home. No, I can take care of myself, and my Son, I don't need her. But she needs me right now... .one would think you would be nice to the "milk man" eh'... .

I know that sounds cold, but I think she is miserable too.

[Red5]

I'm not asking for anyone to tell me what I should do though I am struggling with it. I am asking what was the straw at which you said the verbal and physical abuse was too much to continue this way and you called it quits.

Thanks,
5min

5min, what a thread you have started, as you (and I) can see, & read, there is a lot of pain here.
Calling it quits is really a journey, a long and drawn out decision for most, different personalities have different thresholds, and this threshold may increase, or else decrease depending/resulting on life experiences, events, and or levels of personal responsibilities, ie' having children, a home, a life, a career, all hard fought for, and hard worked for etc;
I guess it’s like this, you will know when it’s time to go, time to exit, time to escape.
A decision only you can make, ever hear the saying, “no stone left unturned”… when all leavers, switches, and expedient emergency procedures have been initiated/executed, in order to attempt to “fix” and or correct the problems, but to no avail, then you will have to make the decision to either stay, or make a move in another direction.
Whatever that direction may be, only you can determine, using the best knowledge you have at that time.
v/r Red5

[5min]

Thanks to everyone for the posts. Your stories, experiences, and lesson are all validating and medicating.

I do keep a change of clothes at work so that is sort of my packed bag but not really sufficient. When I do pack to leave, it escalates. I will have to subtly carry things to work to have a sufficient bag. I also keep an extensive record of events, photos, audio files, broken items, etc from the rages. That has been mostly to have proof should I get arrested from one of her outbursts. It will be beneficial should I make the decision to end the marriage. I have not talked to an attorney or the authorities. I need to find one who can deal with such conflict. So, I do not have an exit strategy, but desperately need one.

Red5, the drip, drip, drip rings so true. I find with each event, I am worn that much more down, recover less quickly, and have less hope for things to get better. My BPDw has also threatened the scorched earth divorce. She has alienated my family to the point we have not spoken in years. I have spent many a night on the couch or a hotel when she throws me out. She always blows up my phone and demands I come back with some plan to "fix this". I might as well have lost my car keys in the back yard but look for them in the living room because there is a light there. I can not fix her. She is not capable of functioning alone and has attempted suicide for which I get the FOG of that. From her rages and my feelings, I now understand some of the extreme decisions people make to alleviate such stress. I don't agree with all of them (drugs, suicide, retaliatory violence) but I really get it and empathize with the pain and need for relief.

This mornings rage started over not checking to see the curling iron was on when I plugged it in for her and not typing a text as she dictated at Mach 2. Mind you, I made it a point to help her get ready to be on time at the expense of being late myself. But then it is all about them and why we do not do more. I agree, life is too short to live this way. And Lucky Jim is right, "the unknown is where greater happiness ca be found. "

[Lucky Jim]

Hey 5min, I used to say that my BPDxW's motto was "Never Enough"!  It's true, in the sense that no matter how much effort I put into something, she always wanted more.  Many here have described this dynamic as the BPD "black hole."  One could say that they have a "hole in the soul" that can never be filled for long by material things or helpful action.  It's an inner emptiness that keeps returning, sad to say, for the pwBPD.

LJ

[SamwizeGamgee]

I'm with you (us) all on this.  Thanks for everyone's comments.  I was thinking about the "drip by drip" example.  

I started to look for the "breaking point" in my marriage and I think I see it as a balance-scale.  Let's say on the "staying side" there's a stack of reasons to stay married, some reasons are large and heavy, some are light and insignificant in the big picture.  Some things should be there, like financial responsibility, presence in the kids' life.  Some things should not be there like fear of change, lack of confidence in myself in the future.  On the other side of the balance-scale are the thing I put there as reasons to leave.  Freedom, peace of mind, better sleep, being able to be a man and free of constant undermining in my own house are all things sitting on that end of the scale and tipping me towards leaving and ending the marriage.  Sometimes I switch something from one side of the scale to the other.  I have reasoned out how staying is better for the kids, and at other times see how leaving is better for the kids. That one is a big weight to switch back and forth, but it happens.  For me, it's less drip by drip, but seems like more sorting out more and more large and small items to the "leaving" side.

LuckyJim, I hear you.  I even described it to my wife face to face that loving her is like filling a bucket with holes all over.  I can't do enough.  Never enough, never anything to return.  She lives in an abyss. It's sad really.

[ozmatoz]

LuckyJim, I hear you.  I even described it to my wife face to face that loving her is like filling a bucket with holes all over.  I can't do enough.  Never enough, never anything to return.  She lives in an abyss. It's sad really.

How true this is.  No matter what I do to help... .its never enough.  Forget the fact that I'm late for work every day because I get the D16 to her bus, let the dogs out, get coffee ready, help get D10 moving (tough to keep her on task) and occasionally still have time to make lunches... .but oh today... I took a shower and she had to feed the dogs.  Well they could have waited 10 minutes for me to get out of the shower.

She gave me crap about taking a shower in the morning when I should have been helping her.  Now mind you she's kicked me out of the master bathroom so I can't use that shower and the only other shower backs up to the kids room and makes noise at night so she has told me thats off limits too... .so when exactly am I supposed to take care of myself?

About ready to get off this crazy train but I'm not looking forward to the scorched earth extinction burst... .

-Oz

[LowSpirit]

I have not reached the "enough is enough" point.  Reading all the horrible experiences people have put up with has helped me put my situation in perspective, I think.  I have dealt for years with the same emotional stuff (I was with her when the BPD issue was raised after sessions with therapist at the local hospital, but now she won't admit it and just blames me for her depression, that I told things to the doctor, etc.): the blame, the silence, wanting me to be like some character in a book or movie that is of course impossible for a real person - essentially tearing down my self-esteem.  But she has never been violent to me, or run away (for more than half a day), or any other more extreme behaviours.  She has developed a bit of a wild side going out with girlfriends, but nothing really bad.  After over 30 years of marriage, she has asked about open marriage... .if she finds someone she clicks with who will take her clubbing and on trips (I am now an anxiety-ridden introvert who does not want to go places).  I did not slam the door closed on the idea, but made it clear that if she talks to me first, we can discuss it, but if she goes behind my back that is cheating - I am thinking I would rather have a chance to try to convince her not to, instead of her going behind my back because if I found out then I would never be able to trust her again whenever she says she is going out shopping or with her friends. And no trust = no relationship.
Anyways, I wanted to thank everyone who has posted on this conversation... .as emotionally rough as I am finding things right now, I now know that things could be a lot more dire, and I can gain some strength from that and keep things in perspective.