Caught Her Red Handed

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

@MarkDavid, I came across this on the net about (Jan) a year ago, go to the link, and scroll down and then start reading the posts by a commenter called “Uptown”; this one of the best “dissertations”; explanations I have come across yet, v/rRed5     

... .here is the link -> www.talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell-2.html#post473522

[Red5]

@MarkDavid, I came across this on the net about (Jan) a year ago, go to the link, and scroll down and then start reading the posts by a commenter called “Uptown”; this one of the best “dissertations”; explanations I have come across yet, v/rRed5     

... .here is the link -> www.talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell-2.html#post473522

[MarkDavid]

@MarkDavid, I came across this on the net about (Jan) a year ago, go to the link, and scroll down and then start reading the posts by a commenter called “Uptown”; this one of the best “dissertations”; explanations I have come across yet, v/rRed5     

... .here is the link -> www.talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell-2.html#post473522

Great link and read. It actually freaks me out how much of that applies to me.  I’m not feeling too great now about her choice originally to “love” me, nor about my short term future.

[MarkDavid]

Great link and read. It actually freaks me out how much of that applies to me.  I’m not feeling too great now about her choice originally to “love” me, nor about my short term future.

I actually am thinking about some of the really weird (to me) and odd things she would say and do:

- she would like almost angrily say “touch me!” when we were seated on the couch if there moments when we would just merely be sitting there
- she would say “give me attention!” like a 6 year old; I would sit there and think and/or say are you for real?
- she would excessively say how much she missed me when I would be away from her during parts of the workday, when I would leave our office

Things like that all the time where I was like you have to be kidding, this isn’t real, right? Just the most bizarre things I ever experienced in a relationship. Thank god I did have relationships with other women prior to being married and then dating this woman - I at least know that all women are not like this; because she is just something beyond anything I have ever experienced. I’m just not up to the task.

[Notwendy]

Why does she say things that you know better not to say?

Because they hurt. When we think of people who are abusive, we think they are mean people who deliberately set out to hurt someone else because they get something out of it. Then we are confused when someone who seems to love us also does/says hurtful things. Then, after a period of cool off, the person seems genuinely remorseful and things are good for a while.

This is the abuse cycle- and it is what is confusing and also keeps the connections between two people- because in the moment, the person is doing/saying hurtful things and then seems genuinely loving later.

There is a statement "hurting people hurt others". Your SO has bad feelings about being caught in a lie and it projecting them on to you. You are hurting as well from being lied to and this leads to the two of you saying things to each other you might not ordinarily say. Perhaps there are degrees of judgment and dysregulation that are different between you. Everyone is a bit dysregulated when angry or hurt, but someone very dysregulated can say all kinds of things. If really dysregulated, they may not even remember them.

And there is also a manipulation aspect to this.

We don't have to excuse this behavior or tolerate it. However, this is how differences and frustrations tend to express themselves in a dysfunctional relationship. These dysregulations let off the steam. After that the bad feelings are gone and there could be a good period.

The choice is on you. Serious physical abuse is life threatening and a serious situation. Verbal abuse can be too, but in degrees. BPD is a spectrum disorder.

Being on an "off " point in your relationship gives you some space to think about this and make a choice. Yet, you know from the past that there could also be a chance to start this up again. You also can't avoid this person entirely since you see her at work. Your side of this is to let go of the drama. ( which may or may not include the relationship- that is your choice too). Yet, if you work with her, it could benefit you to not be emotionally reactive to what she says to you. If you feel she is untrustworthy and don't want a romantic relationship with her, this time "out" gives you the space to choose this too.

[MarkDavid]

Why does she say things that you know better not to say?

Because they hurt. When we think of people who are abusive, we think they are mean people who deliberately set out to hurt someone else because they get something out of it. Then we are confused when someone who seems to love us also does/says hurtful things. Then, after a period of cool off, the person seems genuinely remorseful and things are good for a while.

This is the abuse cycle- and it is what is confusing and also keeps the connections between two people- because in the moment, the person is doing/saying hurtful things and then seems genuinely loving later.

There is a statement "hurting people hurt others". Your SO has bad feelings about being caught in a lie and it projecting them on to you. You are hurting as well from being lied to and this leads to the two of you saying things to each other you might not ordinarily say. Perhaps there are degrees of judgment and dysregulation that are different between you. Everyone is a bit dysregulated when angry or hurt, but someone very dysregulated can say all kinds of things. If really dysregulated, they may not even remember them.

And there is also a manipulation aspect to this.

We don't have to excuse this behavior or tolerate it. However, this is how differences and frustrations tend to express themselves in a dysfunctional relationship. These dysregulations let off the steam. After that the bad feelings are gone and there could be a good period.

The choice is on you. Serious physical abuse is life threatening and a serious situation. Verbal abuse can be too, but in degrees. BPD is a spectrum disorder.

Being on an "off " point in your relationship gives you some space to think about this and make a choice. Yet, you know from the past that there could also be a chance to start this up again. You also can't avoid this person entirely since you see her at work. Your side of this is to let go of the drama. ( which may or may not include the relationship- that is your choice too). Yet, if you work with her, it could benefit you to not be emotionally reactive to what she says to you. If you feel she is untrustworthy and don't want a romantic relationship with her, this time "out" gives you the space to choose this too.

She texts me this morning “I am sorry but would it be possible to get my frying pan and glass Tupperware dish back before Thanksgiving? Thank you.”

So our routine is that I then take them to the office and put them in her office area. Which I will do (rather than throw them in the garbage which I actually would like to do). We have been through this little ritual 100 times.

[MarkDavid]

She texts me this morning “I am sorry but would it be possible to get my frying pan and glass Tupperware dish back before Thanksgiving? Thank you.”

So our routine is that I then take them to the office and put them in her office area. Which I will do (rather than throw them in the garbage which I actually would like to do). We have been through this little ritual 100 times.

I will just tell you all that I did return the items to her office area right now. I also did not and will not respond to her text; she can find the items tomorrow morning when she goes into work or if she chooses to go into the office today to check. I know that some may see that as immature on my part, but I just do not want to spend my Sunday opening up the door for a flurry of texts and fights (of note: she didnt and never did ask me for such things on a Friday or Saturday night; the game she likes to play is that maybe she was out on a date/maybe she went out and “hooked up” with some new guy. As somebody said above, I’m going to take that as “drama bait”, and I’m not taking that bait today. For myself.

[Red5]

@MarkDavid, yeah... .good advice, “dump the drama”, a used frying pan, and an eight pound hunk of glass, ., .hit the jettison button, enjoy your Sunday, YOUR day off, make today all about you, turn off the phone, and go and do something YOU want to do, & safe travels ! v/r Red5

[MarkDavid]

@MarkDavid, yeah... .good advice, “dump the drama”, a used frying pan, and an eight pound hunk of glass, ... ., ... .hit the jettison button, enjoy your Sunday, YOUR day off, make today all about you, turn off the phone, and go and do something YOU want to do, & safe travels ! v/r Red5

Thank you Red5!

[formflier]

  I have not responded.

Honestly... it would have been better to not respond to any of it.

FF

[MarkDavid]

Honestly... it would have been better to not respond to any of it.

FF

I understand that; that said, I don’t want to be accused of stealing her things.

Please remember the dynamic of the situation: we will be in the same office tomorrow so the drama could kick in at any given moment. 17 person office.

The usual dynamic is (1) she outwardly acts as happy as a person could possibly be and (2) she analyzes and assesses my mood from afar: am I sad, angry, withdrawn, happy - and then she takes action according to that. I say nothing to her during this time. It’s the twisted little game that is absolutely draining.

[MarkDavid]

I understand that; that said, I don’t want to be accused of stealing her things.

Please remember the dynamic of the situation: we will be in the same office tomorrow so the drama could kick in at any given moment. 17 person office.

The usual dynamic is (1) she outwardly acts as happy as a person could possibly be and (2) she analyzes and assesses my mood from afar: am I sad, angry, withdrawn, happy - and then she takes action according to that. I say nothing to her during this time. It’s the twisted little game that is absolutely draining.

I will also add that if I had not given her back that stupid frying pan by Wednesday, I would be taking the chance that she would approach/confront me at any given time about just giving her that pan back because it is hers and she simply needs it. So I was simply trying to avoid a conflict during the week over something as stupid as that pan. So she will need to pick something else

[Notwendy]

Something I do with my mother to reduce drama is to act very neutral around her- not showing any kind of extreme of emotion. Like your GF, she is sensitive to emotions- and seems to pick up on small things. My goal with her is reduced drama. However, this is not a good thing to do in an intimate relationship.

It is possible in the workplace though. You know already that drama and an intimate relationship isn't appropriate in the workplace. So at work- you can be cordial, polite and not emotional. If she starts any drama-simply state- we are at work and I prefer to talk about this later and just go about your business.

I think it is fine that you returned her possessions so as not to give her a reason to contact you or make drama over them. But now it is on your part to decide what you want. IMHO I don't think she is through with contacting you again, but the decision on how or if to respond is yours.

[formflier]

 I don’t want to be accused of stealing her things.

If you give power to her words... she will use them.

If you learn healthy responses to accusations... the weirdness stays with her.  Although I will admit that it WILL feel weird for you to resist answering the accusations in your "normal" way for a while.

So... ."Bobby stole my stuff and won't give it back... "

"Oh goodness Kathy... are you talking about the casserole plate that came with that lovely turkey casserole?  Guilty as charged!  There were still a couple bites left and I didn't want to waste them.  "

OK... that turned out a bit more "poking" than I intended... .but the point is... to not "give" her the shock response she most likely "wants".

"Kathy, what item are you are missing?"  (no  drama, get right to the point, and you are still authentic)

Nobody is blamed.  If you said "What item have you misplaced?"  :)o you see how you are "putting it on her?"

Others on here are much much better than me to lead you to understand the drama triangle.  What I want to echo that attempting to understand it will do wonders to help calm you relationships (not just with your pwBPD)

For me, usually "going to the center" of the triangle involves a response that removes blame and, of course, is "unemotional" or perhaps even "quizzical" and concern.  
I will tell you that someone that is really upset, like almost to the point of you wanting to walk away, is going to interpret quizzical in a bad way.

Big picture.  Understanding all of this will help ALL your relationships.

FF

[Red5]

Quick “war story”… and just for fun, .the "two box break up".

After I divorced my first wife of 21 years (eleven years ago & age 40), & despite my better judgment, I started dating again, after being “out of the game” since I was eighteen.

My first and only GF post-divorce, and prior to meeting my current exquisitely complex; and absolutely beautiful wife, I met this red headed real estate agent, she drove a Volvo, and wore “driving gloves”… and wore an aggressive pair of sun glasses, yeah, She was a real cutie (hottie) !

She said “hi there”… and off to the races we went.

We dated for about ten-eleven months, won’t go into all of that here; but she was a “pistol”, and a lot of fun, and train (two trainloads!) loads of drama!… another appropriate word may be “train wreck”.

She was also a recent “divorcee”, albeit not as recent as I was… she called me her “rebound relationship”, and she called me “baby-cakes”… and she “love bombed me to smithereens”… I did not stand a chance; my position was completely over run !… it was like I had been released from the Siberian gulag, and she was my very first contact in the “free world”.

We had some pretty explosive fights, oh’ yes we did,as I do believe she liked (loved the drama she created) to fight, I believe now that she exhibited several of the “pd'ed behaviors traits” (you think!)… But at the time, (knowledge of pd’s), I was a green thumb, inexperienced, tender foot, boot, baby duck… ie’ clueless, yes sir, she was something else, she “gobbled me right up”!, she used to tell me her ex-husband was a “narcissist”, and at the time, I did not even know what that meant ().

For dates, she would drag me off to Al-Anon meetings, and also to her weekly “T” appointments… yeah, she was a “soup sandwich” as we referred to in the USMC, & I was still on active duty at that time, did I mention, she was also a former Marine as well ().

NOTAMS !

Marine Corps r/s survival rule #?… never, I say again NEVER (ever) marry another Marine ()… not even a “former Marine”, nope, don’t do it!

Yeah, she was playing me big time, and I had no clue, but it was fun to feel alive again after just having been released from the gulag you see… She was “all over the map”, and all over me, ie’ adoration phase, Then one day out of the clear blue  ... .she told me that she thought I was getting “bored” with her (projection ), So she started telling me she wanted to get married, and quickly (false flag operation)… I was like no way sweetie, I just got off the boat myself, and I am not nowhere ready for that “trip” again… so then she initiated operation “devalue”… you see, she was the one who was bored, she was a hot rod, & raring to go, and I was having a hard time keeping up… but it was fun trying…

Anyways, I will get to the point of my silly little story here, as I am now sure that she was multiple star cluster pd’ed… we “broke up” a lot,during the curse of our r/s ( I love you , I hate you), she would “give” me things, and also leave things over at “my place”, and so when (each time) I would get dumped, she would then immediately demand all her gear back, pronto, ASLAP !

"Push / Pull"... .Chop Chop, Hubba Hubba !

Marines follow orders, so I would dutifully and carefully pack up all her “gear” into a box, and then take it across town to “her place”… and leave it on her doorstep, as instructed… then a short time later (hoo-ver) we would “make up” again… and then she would again start to collect “stuff” (stage/forward operating base) over at my place, then the inevitable (recycle) dump-ex would ensue… but this time, it would take (took) two boxes to transfer all her gear back across town to her place… this is the point of this story, as we approached the sundown and end of our r/s, ie’ the discard, she would “dress me down” in regards to the “one box break up”… and the “two box break up”… LoL !

So @MarkDavid, your “frying pan” break up reminded me of the ole’ “one-two box break up “ daze…

I have said it here before, if you can’t find a small glimmer of humor here, make a little fun sometimes, you are dead !

“two box break up”…

Safe travels friend !

v/r Red5

[MarkDavid]

Quick “war story” …. and just for fun, ... .the "two box break up".

After I divorced my first wife of 21 years (eleven years ago & age 40), …. & despite my better judgment, I started dating again, after being “out of the game” since I was eighteen.

My first and only GF post-divorce, and prior to meeting my current exquisitely complex; and absolutely beautiful wife, … I met this red headed real estate agent, she drove a Volvo, and wore “driving gloves” … and wore an aggressive pair of sun glasses, yeah, …. She was a real cutie (hottie) !

She said “hi there” … and off to the races we went.

We dated for about ten-eleven months, won’t go into all of that here; but she was a “pistol”, and a lot of fun, and train (two trainloads!) loads of drama! … another appropriate word may be “train wreck”.

She was also a recent “divorcee”, albeit not as recent as I was …. she called me her “rebound relationship”, and she called me “baby-cakes” … and she “love bombed me to smithereens” …. I did not stand a chance; my position was completely over run !… it was like I had been released from the Siberian gulag, and she was my very first contact in the “free world”.

We had some pretty explosive fights, … oh’ yes we did, …as I do believe she liked (loved the drama she created) to fight, I believe now that she exhibited several of the “pd'ed behaviors traits” (you think!) …. But at the time, (knowledge of pd’s), … I was a green thumb, inexperienced, tender foot, boot, baby duck …. ie’ clueless, …. yes sir, she was something else, she “gobbled me right up”!, …. she used to tell me her ex-husband was a “narcissist”, and at the time, I did not even know what that meant ().

For dates, she would drag me off to Al-Anon meetings, and also to her weekly “T” appointments … yeah, she was a “soup sandwich” as we referred to in the USMC, … & I was still on active duty at that time, … did I mention, she was also a former Marine as well ().

NOTAMS !



Marine Corps r/s survival rule #? …... never, … I say again NEVER (ever) marry another Marine ()… not even a “former Marine”, nope, don’t do it!

Yeah, she was playing me big time, and I had no clue, but it was fun to feel alive again after just having been released from the gulag you see …. She was “all over the map”, … and all over me, ie’ adoration phase, …. Then one day out of the clear blue  ... .she told me that she thought I was getting “bored” with her (projection ), …. So she started telling me she wanted to get married, and quickly (false flag operation) … I was like no way sweetie, I just got off the boat myself, and I am not nowhere ready for that “trip” again … so then she initiated operation “devalue” … you see, she was the one who was bored, she was a hot rod, & raring to go, and I was having a hard time keeping up … but it was fun trying ….

Anyways, I will get to the point of my silly little story here, as I am now sure that she was multiple star cluster pd’ed … we “broke up” a lot, …during the curse of our r/s ( I love you , I hate you), she would “give” me things, and also leave things over at “my place”, …. and so when (each time) I would get dumped, she would then immediately demand all her gear back, … pronto, ASLAP !

"Push / Pull" ... .Chop Chop, Hubba Hubba !

Marines follow orders, so I would dutifully and carefully pack up all her “gear” into a box, and then take it across town to “her place” … and leave it on her doorstep, as instructed … then a short time later (hoo-ver) we would “make up” again … and then she would again start to collect “stuff” (stage/forward operating base) over at my place, then the inevitable (recycle) dump-ex would ensue … but this time, it would take (took) two boxes to transfer all her gear back across town to her place … this is the point of this story, as we approached the sundown and end of our r/s, …. ie’ the discard, …. she would “dress me down” in regards to the “one box break up” … and the “two box break up” …. LoL !

So @MarkDavid, your “frying pan” break up reminded me of the ole’ “one-two box break up “ daze ….

I have said it here before, if you can’t find a small glimmer of humor here, make a little fun sometimes, you are dead !

“two box break up” …...

Safe travels friend !

v/r Red5

A good story from you, Red5.

Well I have been in and out of the office a lot this morning. She definitely has her stuff back in her possession; not a word in response to that.

At noon I came in and she happened to be sitting in an area where I would see her (legitimately, for work), and she just looked down, so as to not make eye contact with me.  So nothing else has been said; apparently my “True Love” has moved on from me for good - I’m being sarcastic. In any event, she is trying to communicate that this time IS indeed different, and that she’s really moving on.

[Red5]

@MarkDavid, I think it was @formflier who said, "they will show you who they are, so believe them!"... .

So my advice (2.cents)... .(analogy follows)... .set your flaps & check your landing gear, set your take-off trim, take the duty runway, departure heading, and punch those throttles full up to the fire wall, and release your brakes!

I would call this one "the great frying pan romance", .my Grandmother used to tell me, "boy, what don't kill you outright, will make you stronger bye and bye"... .sobering advice if I do say so, coming from someone who grew up in, and survived during the great depression.

I remember my time in the service, and someone had lost their GF, or else young pretty wife to ole' "jody boy" while we were away for months and months, and the best advice I ever heard was... .hey dude, go get yourself a new GF, no... .get two (2) GF's ! (sarcasm) ... .

What do they say, ."thank God for unanswered prayers", and "I dodged that bullet"... .and one of my fav's... ."there's one born every minute "... .what was the line from the movie... ."if you love someone / something, let it go, and if it comes back it loves you, and if it doesn't, then it belongs to some other poor b_stard  now !

... .laugh, .laugh often, .and be happy, .and let her be herself... .one more and I will quit, "there are plenty of fish in the sea"... .so don't settle for the one that got away.

*Keep us posted, v/r Red5

[MarkDavid]

Well to be perfectly honest, I'm not feeling too good about things right now.  I wish she wouldn't walk away; I also wish some things about her would change.  It's very perplexing and hard.  And I'm in no shape right now to go find someone else; not even close; I'm tired; I'm busy with work big time, too.  It is just a really really ___ty time.  I guess she wants to walk away; I really can't believe it, to be honest with you; I can't believe she wants to leave me in the dust.

[Skip]

This is a hard question, but do you think you overreacted?

She lied. Clearly. She has a double standard and didn't want to let you know. Both of these things suck. At the same time, exs coparent birthdays all the time.

Was there a better way to handle this? Should you have confronted her in a constructive way to understand what this was all about. Would a solution have been for both or you to co-parent birthdays with your ex going forward. Or something else.

As you say, you have recycled 1,000 times. This is how you two fight.

I'd really encourage you to spend time on Improving if you do reconnect.

So, what do you think this was all about?

[MarkDavid]

This is a hard question, but do you think you over reacted?

She lied. Clearly. She has a double standard and didn't want to let you know. Both of these things suck. At the same time, exs coparent birthdays all the time.

Was there a better way to handle this? Should you have confronted her in a constructive way to understand what this was all about. Would a solution have been for both or you to co-parent birthdays with your ex going forward. Or something else.

As you say, you have recycled 1,000 times. This is how you two fight.

I'd really encourage you to spend time on Improving if you do reconnect.

So, what do you think this was all about?

Did I over-react?  Well, I said she was lying and that I caught her.  She gave a bunch of half ass explanations on that Sunday night that were bull___, without giving a whole explanation.  Then she waited 4 days, like she did previously over a lie situation, and then came up with this elaborate bull___ story, some of which could maybe be explained away, but some that just can not based upon actual evidence. 

So do i think i over-reacted?  No, not in the least.  Back in 2015, 6 months after my divorce, my ex-wife asked me to have a JOINT birthday party for my then 18 year old; my girlfriend went BALLISTIC about that; the JOINT birthday party did not happen; I declined my ex-wife's offer.  Even after doing so, my girlfriend gave me CRAP about it for a long, long time; it would come up from time to time by my girlfriend, snide remarks, hassling me about that prior situation.  And I didn't even do the birthday party in the first place; so it was a definite multi-year rule:  no joint birthday parties. PERIOD.  AGREED TO.  DEAL.  So she could double talk away around it not being a "party" per se last week Sunday, but so what.  He was around.  My kids didn't get the benefit of that; hers shouldn't either.  Her kids are no more special than my kids; my kids shouldn't have to get the short end of the stick, while her kids get the preferred experiences.

Any way, she parlayed this into a break up last Thursday-Friday.  How dare she be accused, evidently.  She IS too close to her ex husband; he's lingering and I don't like it.  My ex wife is getting RE-MARRIED.  So all of my ex-girlfriends concerns should be long gone; I'm still dealing with an ex-husband lingering around, and this is a long-standing issue.  The double standard/the 2 sets of rules.  And when I put my foot down, this is what I get - I'm here again.  With her saying things to me last Friday like:  "I don't want my ex. And I don't want you . . . . There was no lying. And I will find happiness with someone who loves me every day.  Not just sporadically.  Every day.  I have the chance to find that now. . . .  I will find someone that wants an equal relationship with me.  Someone who stays.  Someone who doesn't abandon me."

The "abandonment" thing is the one that this woman has thrown at me more than any woman i have ever been with, and it throws me for a loop.

[Skip]

So she could double talk away around it not being a "party" per se last week Sunday, but so what.  He was around.  My kids didn't get the benefit of that; hers shouldn't either.  Her kids are no more special than my kids; my kids shouldn't have to get the short end of the stick, while her kids get the preferred experiences.

What are you most mad about... .can you rate these (1-10)

That she was deceitful and hiding something from you?
That her kids get better co-parenting than your kids?
That she didn't feel guilty and apologize,try to make it right?
That you think she is trying to reconnect with her ex?

And I will find happiness with someone who loves me every day.  Not just sporadically.  Every day.  I have the chance to find that now. . . .  I will find someone that wants an equal relationship with me.  Someone who stays.  Someone who doesn't abandon me."

After you realized what happened, what was the best outcome you could have hoped for? Her to admit and apologize? The relationship to end and you find someone else? Other?

Just trying to help you sort this... .

[MarkDavid]

What are you most mad about... .can you rate these (1-10)

That she was deceitful and hiding something from you?
That her kids get better co-parenting than your kids?
That she didn't feel guilty and apologize,try to make it right?
That you think she is trying to reconnect with her ex?

After you realized what happened, what was the best outcome you could have hoped for? Her to admit and apologize? The relationship to end and you find someone else? Other?

Just trying to help you sort this... .

Deceitful and hiding something from me: 10
Better co-parenting? No. It’s about fair is fair. If she DEMANDS that I not share birthdays with my ex-wife, she sure as heck can’t do the opposite!
Yes she should admit, apologize and explain, particularly as my kids didn’t get the benefit of those birthday experiences. It’s not equal. It’s not mutual. It’s 2 sets of rules; and she just doesn’t care. Which to me was a constant overall red flag that she really didn’t care about me. It wasn’t too tough to “catch her” as to the birthday thing; people in our community know us, know our kids, and I was getting humiliated and played by her over situations like this. I look like A JOKE again because she did one thing, but when it came down to me I had to do as she dictated; or else I would be DUMPED.

[MarkDavid]

What are you most mad about... .can you rate these (1-10)

That she was deceitful and hiding something from you?
That her kids get better co-parenting than your kids?
That she didn't feel guilty and apologize,try to make it right?
That you think she is trying to reconnect with her ex?

After you realized what happened, what was the best outcome you could have hoped for? Her to admit and apologize? The relationship to end and you find someone else? Other?

Just trying to help you sort this... .

And yes there is huge concern that she may be trying to reconnect with her ex; that is the major point. She was INSANELY jealous of my ex wife. There are things that still transpire that my exGF would never allow me to do as to my ex wife as far as interactions go.

Any way, uBPD seems to be sticking to her guns more this time; she don’t want me no more she said last week, so I have to take her at her word. I won’t chase her. I guess she truly wants some other guy now, be it her ex or someone new - she don’t want me because I complained yet again that her ex is too close - he has NOT gotten a new girlfriend.

[Skip]

she don’t want me no more she said last week, so I have to take her at her word

Haven't you been down this road before and reconnected?

It seems like you want to solve this, but at the same time, you have ver strong emotions at play which are more about breaking the relationship down.

I'm not trying to talk into going back (or leaving)... .I am saying that you seem at cross purposes with yourself... .you want "A" and you are forcing "B" to happen.

Do you have any factual reason to think that she is reconnecting with the ex?

[MarkDavid]

Haven't you been down this road before and reconnected?

It seems like you want to solve this, but at the same time, you have ver strong emotions at play which are more about breaking the relationship down.

I'm not trying to talk into going back (or leaving)... .I am saying that you seem at cross purposes with yourself... .you want "A" and you are forcing "B" to happen.

Do you have any factual reason to think that she is reconnecting with the ex?

Well you asked the actual question that is the elephant in my room; the question that makes me sick and I have never answered to any of my non-cyber friends. It has to do with her house. After her divorce, they STILL co-own that house together. “For financial reasons” she always said. He has lived in an apartment while she kept the house.  Well over the past few months the story goes that either she was going to move in with me or get her own place, and HE would move back into the house. The date was first October 1 for this “switch” to happen. Then it became December 1. Ever since this premise was discussed, according to her, he has been a jerk about it, starting to move stuff in, telling her to get out if she didn’t like it, having his car supposedly at the house more. He is IN that house at times she is there. And I’m irate about it; that if things were as she said that she wouldn’t TELL HIM to STAY OUT until December 1. Hence I don’t trust what is going on and feel I am being played and lied to.

This is the first time I actually articulated “it” to anyone, cyber or not.  I feel stupid and embarrassed even typing this message out. Red flags? I feel so stupid and ANGRY.