Frequent accusations - open or subtle - of infidelity

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

hey, was looking for some advice on how others respond to this, since I gather it's fairly common in some way, shape or form among persons wBPD.

in my own case, pretty much anything can trigger it.  I don't walk close enough to her?  I'm smiling and she doesn't know why?  I look at someone who happens to be female?  I "seem nervous" when she asks to see my phone?  etc. etc.  sometimes nothing triggers it, and I randomly get questions about whether I "like someone at work" because I "seem preoccupied" or she "feels I am distant"

I have always been irritated by this, but recently it's become more concerning because my oldest is now able to start to pick up on the negivity and try to understand it (he's 4).

Here's one example: this weekend, we went hiking as a family (she really wanted to, and it was her bday), and inevitably in each helping a kid along the trail, we would occasionally get separated by 10-20 feet here and there.  Eventually she started accusing me of avoiding her intentionally and said "you must be thinking about some OTHER woman."

this really bothered me because: 1) our oldest son heard, and 2) it couldn't have been farther from the truth.  I was happy, walking along, enjoying myself, and all of the sudden it's like a slap in the face.

we talked about it later that day; I said "look if you wanted a hug, or wanted to be closer, just ask!" she apologized, and agreed.  then today, same thing again.

I know ultimatums are usually fruitless, and unduly provocative, but this really upsets me.  it's one thing to hurl accusations at me, but for my kids to hear their dad is a cheater, or a perv, or unfaithful, can't be good.  and on top of it, I feel like I have to deny it, and then I'm giving baseless accusations more "air time" than they deserve.  I really don't think it's okay for her to air her own insecurities like that so they affect our kids.  she's free to ask me anything - in private - but not around kids.

Alternatively... .do I go on the attack?  respond with a question of my own to make her accusations ridiculous? 

e.g. "You think I am avoiding you because I stopped to help our son?"

[PeteWitsend]

hey, was looking for some advice on how others respond to this, since I gather it's fairly common in some way, shape or form among persons wBPD.

in my own case, pretty much anything can trigger it.  I don't walk close enough to her?  I'm smiling and she doesn't know why?  I look at someone who happens to be female?  I "seem nervous" when she asks to see my phone?  etc. etc.  sometimes nothing triggers it, and I randomly get questions about whether I "like someone at work" because I "seem preoccupied" or she "feels I am distant"

I have always been irritated by this, but recently it's become more concerning because my oldest is now able to start to pick up on the negivity and try to understand it (he's 4).

Here's one example: this weekend, we went hiking as a family (she really wanted to, and it was her bday), and inevitably in each helping a kid along the trail, we would occasionally get separated by 10-20 feet here and there.  Eventually she started accusing me of avoiding her intentionally and said "you must be thinking about some OTHER woman."

this really bothered me because: 1) our oldest son heard, and 2) it couldn't have been farther from the truth.  I was happy, walking along, enjoying myself, and all of the sudden it's like a slap in the face.

we talked about it later that day; I said "look if you wanted a hug, or wanted to be closer, just ask!" she apologized, and agreed.  then today, same thing again.

I know ultimatums are usually fruitless, and unduly provocative, but this really upsets me.  it's one thing to hurl accusations at me, but for my kids to hear their dad is a cheater, or a perv, or unfaithful, can't be good.  and on top of it, I feel like I have to deny it, and then I'm giving baseless accusations more "air time" than they deserve.  I really don't think it's okay for her to air her own insecurities like that so they affect our kids.  she's free to ask me anything - in private - but not around kids.

Alternatively... .do I go on the attack?  respond with a question of my own to make her accusations ridiculous? 

e.g. "You think I am avoiding you because I stopped to help our son?"

[pearlsw]

Hi PeteWitsend,

I hear ya! It is so hard to be accused of stuff like this. It is one of a pile of issues so I haven't found a solution for it yet. It doesn't happen as often, mostly when he is dysregulating. I have probably tried it all. In the past I have not been above attempts to make his accusations seem ridiculous just to make a rhetorical point. "You just said X, if I said X to you what would you think?"

I think attacking back will only heighten the emotional issues, not help them.

Have you looked yet at this topic on Jealousy? https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=78324.0

You may also want to look at Boundaries and Values: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0

I imagine it must be extra hard to have this happen in front of children. I could be wrong, but in those situations I would imagine validating the feeling, talking in calm respectful ways when you have no way to get out of it, would be one way to at least model good behavior and kind ways of speaking in front of your child. It might help smooth out the distress of such an encounter. I can't say for sure though! What do you think? Sounds like what you said about needing a hug could be modified for the specific situation. "I hear you are feeling alone. I am here anytime you need a hug."

I am not skilled at validation but maybe others could share ideas with us here of how to phrase this. Or you could ask about this over on the Improving board where folks ask for specific help with the tools?

take care!

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Pete, maybe you could say something like, "No, of course I'm not thinking about another woman, but I'm happy to talk about it if you have some reason to distrust me."  Presumably it all stems from her fear of abandonment, which is at the heart of much BPD behavior.

LJ

[PeteWitsend]

Hey Pete, maybe you could say something like, "No, of course I'm not thinking about another woman, but I'm happy to talk about it if you have some reason to distrust me."  Presumably it all stems from her fear of abandonment, which is at the heart of much BPD behavior.

LJ

I have a hard time, at this stage in our relationship, staying calm and responding like that.  I'm pretty bitter over the constant accusations, and attacks. 

[Dragon72]

If the abandonment fears have been triggered, anything will be interpreted as infidelity.  And the antennae that search for signs of this are hypersensitive.

The other day I was cheerfully singing to myself a song I like that I had heard recently.  She asked me if I am in love with someone.  Not in a jokey way. I could tell it was a genuine thought that she was taking seriously.  I seemed happy, therefore I must be in love with someone else.  Go figure.

I chose not to react in any way to the comment.  She's going to have those thoughts no matter what.

[formflier]

This has been something I have gained about 90% victory on in my r/s...

The theory behind it is to remain friendly concerned and DO NOT talk abut the accusation... don't validate or invalidate it in any way...  

I find solutions that let me be "authentic" are good... as long as authentic is healthy.

Pissed off and bitter is not healthy.

Shocked... surprised is...

"Oh babe... .I'm... .I don't know what to say... .completely without words.  (then deliberately soften a bit... .lean into her... .perhaps a gentle touch on the arm)  Do you need reassurance of my feelings for you?"  (stay away from word "love"... in times like this it is usually invalidating.

Another goal here is to shift from you  after other women... .(invalid) to her feelings (which we all know is the battleground)

If you use this or something like this about 80% of the time.  Then perhaps 10% say "I don't have time for baseless suggestions... .I'm taking a walk, back in 10 minutes"  (not in pissed off way... just matter of fact)

Then perhaps 10% of "Your suggestions hurt my feelings... I'll be in the study whenever you are ready to apologize" (almost angry)    I started doing the last one some because we all need some time to "vent back"... .express ourselves...

Thoughts?

The sad thing is... .they will do it in front of the kids...

FF

[Blueskyday]

Hi
My Gdtr is 6 and I know exactly how concerning it is. My dtr is BPD

I think the issue was that you were just "enjoying being" . As you were walking you lost yourself in the moment. It is a beautiful thing but can spark envy and fear in ppl experiencing BPD.

My Dtr took me to Ronnie Scotts in Lindon for my 50th and got incredibly aggressive as I lost myself in the wonder of it... .go figure

My 6yr old can see her Mother raging now. She listens. She took my laptop last week when i was unwell which she really should not have done. When I insisted on clearing all history and cc details etc she went nuts! My Grandbaby backed me up and said Yes Mum, if it makes Grandma feel better why is it a problem.

Hadnt realised she was listening