Help me understand...

[hurtingbad]

Hi everyone.  I recently returned to this site after being away from it for over a year.  I received an email from one of the administrators asking how I was doing and I responded.  I was then asked to re-post here instead, hoping some of you may be able to help. 

Let me first add that I know I am an enabler.  But... .I also do NOT know the difference between when the things I do are just "nice things to do" for someone you care about, and when those things become "enabling".  I have found though, that ANY nice thing I do, that is appreciated, then becomes almost immediately expected to continue.  If I do not continue doing it, then feelings are hurt and I will hear something like "... .you don't care enough to keep doing something I told you I really enjoyed... ." 

I would also like to add that my husband was in a serious car wreck almost 13 years ago and has been disabled and not working since.  He can do many things, but has issues with his legs, in addition to other smaller injuries, so cannot do a lot of things he used to be able to do.  Because of this, I have done more "nice things" for him than I had even in the past... .and now need to continue to do them.  Also, these injuries make him feel "inferior", "not the man he used to be", so add that to the reasons for jealousy list.  "Why wouldn't I want to be with (-insert name here-)?" Anyway, below is a copy of the email I was asked to re-post here:

"I've been doing well, for the most part.  Thanks for asking.  As you know, things can change in an instant, but thankfully the frequency of arguing (mostly him yelling and me taking it) has decreased over the last year or so.  There was just a big blow up over part of his dinner being cold a couple of weeks ago and I felt I needed to come back and do some reading... .if for no other reason than to remember others are going thru this as well.

After all these years (married 27) I still have such a problem rapping my head around this type of behavior.  I absolutely abhor confrontation, yet live in almost constant fear of it happening at any moment.  Maybe if the reasons for the confrontation made ANY sense to me whatsoever... .if I could understand, in the slightest, that something I may have said or done (or not said or not done) would have upset ANY other human being... .it might make it easier, but the things that make him lose his mind are just incomprehensible to me.  I've tried some things I've read here, but either I'm still doing it wrong or it just doesn't make any difference to him.  When I intently listen to what he is saying, put myself inside his mind, and tell him I understand how "this situation" would make him feel that way and I'm sorry... .he just tells me I don't understand and if I truly were sorry I wouldn't have done it in the first place.   I've tried not talking at all... .just listening, agreeing etc, but he will constantly ask me questions that require that I answer.  If I still say nothing, he gets mad because I'm not answering him.  Heaven forbid I should raise my voice back at him.  Apparently he's allowed to lose his mind over absolutely nothing, but I'm not allowed to get mad or hurt by it?

While writing this, I received a text from him.  Apparently, something I said last night (actually looking forward to some plans we have for tonight) was heard by him with a “tone” that made him think the exact opposite of what I was saying, and therefore his feelings were hurt and he’s “disappointed”.  I’m not trying to be mean by saying this, but I haven’t known any teenage girls to have their feelings hurt as much as he does, and I just don’t understand it.  (Oh... .how many times I have wanted to say that to him, but that's not going to help anybody!)

I read things here telling me people with BPD can’t help it…it’s just the way they think, and we non’s need to do or say, this or that, and not take anything personally.  How?  How do you not take things personally?  Why/how am I supposed to let everything roll off my back when he NEVER lets go of ANYTHING... .and will bring it up YEARS later?  I can honestly tell you that NOT ONE of our arguments in all of these years has started because I brought up something I was upset about.  Things just don’t bother me that much.  If I “think” he said something in a “tone” that I shouldn’t like, I realize I must have heard it wrong because he wouldn’t say that.  Never does he think this way.  I ignore my feelings and pretend everything is fine…like tonight when I get home.  I’ll do everything I can to make sure the text conversation we just had doesn’t come up, so we can go about our plans with no issues.  This was a fairly small deal (so far), but I do the same thing when he’s spent 3 days accusing me of cheating, or wanting to leave, or whatever else he makes up in his own head. 

I’m sorry this has gotten so long.  I'll stop now, but thanks for listening.  I don’t have anyone else to talk to about this, so just typing it helps a little.  I hope you’re not sorry you asked!  Thanks again!"

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Tattered Heart]

Hi hurtingbad,

Welcome back!

I'm sorry you are still going through a lot of the same issues as before. So it sounds to me that:
1) Your H will get mad if you do nothing
2) Your H will get mad if you do something

Basically, no matter what you do, he will get upset. Coming to this realization helped me stop walking on egg shells. I walked on egg shells to try to prevent blow up, but all the tip toeing I did changed nothing. Walking on egg shells caused me more distress and didn't really fix anything, so why do it?

Two of our skills that might help you alot are validation and Don't JADE . It's important to hold back your own response momentarily to make sure you validate what your H is feeling and then don't try to justify, apologize, defend, or explain your own behavior.

Looking at the situation with the text. Your H senses a "tone" to your text. If you felt like someone had a tone to their text, how would you feel? Do you think your H feels the same? How can you validate the feeling he feels?

[hurtingbad]

Tattered Heart,
Thank you for your response.  I have previously read (and just did again!) about validating and JADE.  As I stated, things have been much better (or at least the arguing has become less frequent), so that's a wonderful thing.  I have tried validating in the past, but each time I've had the same issue.  The response I've gotten is something like "... .you do not understand, you will never understand".  I must not be doing/saying things correctly... .I'll keep practicing though 

Regarding JADE... .I think I understand the concept, (if it hasn't worked in the past why would it work this time?) but I have no idea how NOT to JADE.  Especially when I'm being asked over and over why I did or said something, or being accused of something I didn't do... .which 100% of the time gets around to being about cheating.  I don't know how many times I have tried to convince him that cheating is something I would NEVER even think of doing.  We had both been cheated on in the past but we've been married for 27 years.  I could understand the concern early on in the relationship, but not now.  He will just bring up other friends whose wives have cheated or who left their husband for someone else and ask why that couldn't also be me.  How do you not try to explain yourself in that type of situation?

The part about the "tone" and the text... .his text to me that day was due to the tone he heard in my voice the night before.  I have learned over the years that I cannot "tease" with him much at all.  I was trying to be a little playful in what I had said, but I'm guessing he heard it as sarcasm (?) which made him think I meant the opposite of what I actually said.   

[flourdust]

Regarding JADE... .I think I understand the concept, (if it hasn't worked in the past why would it work this time?) but I have no idea how NOT to JADE.  Especially when I'm being asked over and over why I did or said something, or being accused of something I didn't do... .which 100% of the time gets around to being about cheating. ... .  How do you not try to explain yourself in that type of situation?

Great question! What if you just ... .don't? If he throws a verbal grenade at you, just don't pick it up. Let it sit there. Don't engage. If he won't drop it, and it's making you uncomfortable, then leave the room. The fastest way to stop the fighting is to just not fight.

[pearlsw]

Hi hurtingbad,

I'm gonna echo flourdust here. If you don't want to have redundant conversations about hypothetical cheating don't have them! There is only so much reassurance one can give to his fears... .especially if it just keeps going and going. My h will see things in the news that influence him on that particular day and then, boom, here comes a discussion and a lot of what-iffing.

I am still not so great at it, but if you can share examples things he says and how you can respond it helps all of us to practice and learn how to word things more effectively. I want to do it more myself, but I can't always remember stuff!

wishing you the best, pearlsw.

[hurtingbad]

Flourdust,
Thank you for your suggestion.  I have never just walked out (unless there was an additional reason I had to... .like to get to work or something), and I'm not sure I can, but I will try next time should I need to!

Pearlsw,
It amazes me that I can't remember exact conversations to be able to recreate them here (especially since those conversations will go on for HOURS and the same things are repeated over and over and over).  I agree, though... .knowing what other people have said in particular situations would help the rest of us, since most of us seem to have very similar arguments.  I will try to remember to do that as well.

Thank you both!

[isilme]

I can empathize a bit, my H is recently dealing with some loss of leg and lower body function due to diabetes that was untreated for about a year or two.  I do a LOT to compensate for chores, errands, tasks he cannot do due to a lack of strength control and stamina, and I work full time.  This is in addition to things the BPD emotional mess makes him iffy to leave in charge of.  It is tiring.  And while appreciation would be nice, his emotional make-up means that has a lot of shame in it, and so I can't fully even accept thanks without wondering what he's going to need to find fault with to keep me from feeling too "uppity" (yes, he as used this assinine word when upset.)  He assumes I will want to leave him, cheat on him, etc. 

Regarding the emotional hand grenades:

I have never just walked out (unless there was an additional reason I had to... .like to get to work or something), and I'm not sure I can, but I will try next time should I need to!

There are many ways to walk out.  I pretty much never make a huge statement "I am walking out!" and leave the room.  I have a few things that seem to work a little for me, but may not for anyone else.  My main goal once this has started is to simply make it stop, get to the Silent Treatment, and then move on. 

I try not to JADE, but I also repeat things like "this is not MY statement, it's coming from YOU."  "I never said/thought/felt that YOU feel it and are trying to put it off on me."  "I don't think you are ugly YOU feel that way."  "It's a poor method of SET I think, and am working on it, but it works best at the early point of a conversation.  I do not apologize for him having feelings I did nothing to cause.  I do not let him dump those feelings on me.  I try to let him know I hear him stating the feelings he's got bouncing around in his head, but that I do not share them and that he can't blame them on me.

If possible, I find a chore to take me out of the room, or an errand to run out of the house.  Usually, by the time I get back, he's no longer yelling even if he's ignoring me.  I can handle that much better - I just go do my thing until he's "reset".  I'm not saying it's easy, and that I am not a bundle of nerves during this, but that it's better than the overt shouting, to me.  I mow the lawn.  I feel good being outside, getting exercise, and find it satisfying.  I clean my kitchen.  He won't touch the dishes, and I like them clean, so it soothes me to get them at least washed.  I fold clothes - another chore I can do away from him, that he won't really do.

About not letting things get to you... .

You have dealt with the ramifications of the car accident.  You know that his abilities to do certain things are diminished, accept them, and try to not let them bother you.  In addition to physical limitations, your H has emotional ones.  We all work to not let those bother us any more than a physical limitation does.

My H has a need - I think it's pretty much summed up with misery loves company.  BPD wants everyone else to feel as miserable as the person with it.  If he feels like an argument, by golly he will rile you up to start one.  and then he can turn around and blame YOU for the fight.  Win-win for BPD.  If he feels like he is not attractive or useful, he can't take responsibility for those feelings and has to find a reason to make those feelings YOUR fault.  He can't see that he creates his own private hell and chooses to wallow in it - he has to pretend on a very deep level that anyone and everyone made it for him, it's not his fault in any way, and that his perceptions are right and everyone else's are wrong, mean, or meant to hurt him.

I try to get no more mad at H for emotional dysregulation than I would a tired toddler or a drunk person.  None of them are in full control of their emotions.  THIS is what I try to keep in mind when the word vomit starts and he starts picking at me.  His emotions build up inside like food poisoning and he has to get them out, and it's not going to be pretty.  We can try a steady diet of validation and SET, but the emotional dysfucntion is always going to be in there.  It may go deeper, it may diminish, the triggers may change, but the chance will be there. 

BPD is a sucky place to live, not just for us nons.  I try to remember this when H goes off - it helped a bit this weekend coming back from the holiday family visit. 

One more thing that "may" help.  I ahve over the last decade become more aware of cycles - times of year, month, and times of day when H is most likely to freak out.  Luckily, we are in the midst of that season now    Yay, the holidays.  His blood sugar dropping is one of the biggest things that can lead to or make worse a rage.  Look for triggers, times of year that correlate with bad arguments, peridos of depression, and if you can address those slowly, it can help decrease the comorbid BPD issues.