Is it a trap? Love bombing and finally “promises” sprinkled with FOG.

[ozmatoz]

I finally got up the courage earlier this week to move temporarily to my parents place. The first 2-3 days were filled with ridiculous threats, insane actions... .the typical extinction burst.

Since the the last 2 days she has been crazy apologetic, told me she wouldn’t make me adhere to her “non-negotiable” list. She’s admitted her anger and outbursts were uncalled for. She’s said she’s committed to changing for the better and has been begging me to come back.  Telling me how much she really does love me... .

She keeps talking about the kids and how they need us as a family and keeps sending me old pictures and has not stopped. I mean literally nonstop. Texts that could be books, 30 calls in a half hour, please please please.

I told her that the only way I could get clarity is if I had some space and room to breathe. Originally she said no, but quickly realized it was happening. She finally couldn’t control me.

How do I stay strong through this?  My heart breaks to see anyone sad (caretaker admittedly) let alone someone who I’ve shared so much with.

I don’t want to cave. I don’t want to go back. The things she’s said and done are just not things you do to someone you really love.

I want different. I need different. I need to live again.

[Cat Familiar]

Her old ways of trying to control you with threats weren't working, so now she's trying something new.

In the investment industry they say: Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Do you want to hope that she's turned over a new leaf?

Or do you think that your years of history with her give you a more reliable guide to her future behavior?

PwBPD seem highly attuned to our feelings when it comes to tugging upon our heartstrings.

[ozmatoz]

Thank you Cat.  We are a week in to the separation at this point although there were times last week that I stayed and crashed on the couch because it was just so darn late after the rounds of arguing plus events for the kids attended together.  I would hope she had turned over a new leaf, not for saving the relationship, but for the sanity of all involved especially the kids, but I know better.  A few touchy arguments later and she's back to painting me black.

Her threats have subsided although I feel them just below the surface.  She is definitely moving down the list to Obligation and Guilt.

I get constant garbage about how I've left all of the house and daily chores/care to her and that is only breeding more resentment.  I neglect her and the house yet still find time to go to work.  Oh the horror, I have to work to pay for the house, car, health insurance... .xmas gifts... .  Says my priorities are f-d up.  I do feel obligation to help out as I know its a lot of work to take care of.  One of the things that always got under my skin was her telling me I should just pack up and leave because "she takes care of it all"... .well I think she is having a rude awakening of how much I really did.  However instead of discussing that its tough and she could use my help, its all about how I'm out to make her life terrible by neglecting her and my responsibilities.

Also I get the guilt trips about how much I am missing out on the kids.  I miss them finding the elf in the morning, the laughs at the dinner table and the daily conversations.  Tells me that if I'm the kind of person that chooses to miss those then she couldn't possibly choose me.  Well what is the other choice?  Comply to her every demand and move back in?  Continue the fighting and perpetual nonsense?  No thank you.  I get it, worst time of year to do this but is there ever a good time?

I was supposed to have the kids on Saturday for an overnight but when I went to pick them up she had an absolute crazy breakdown panic attack and demanded to be part of the days activities.  When I pushed back we started fighting pretty bad.  She had admittedly let me come on events with the kids when she didn't want me there (but the kids did).  This time D10 really didn't care and D16 was absolutely wanting this to be a girls and dad only time.  She pushed so much that I eventually caved and let her be part of the day but at every turn she kept trying to creep in further.  I finally had enough, said no.  D16 had enough, told her no.  I put the kids in the car and drove away.  Its been hell since.

It is becoming very clear to me the enmeshment that she needs.  She cannot live without being one.  This is and has always been tough for me but I never knew why until I learned about BPD.  There are a lot of things becoming clear that I feeling a new post may be a good topic for the board.

heartstrings very much tugged.

[Tattered Heart]

The way to know that someone is sincere in their apologies to is see them taking steps to actually resolve the issues not just giving lip service to them.

What are some goal posts that you can set up to see if she is truly making progress towards being healthy?

[Lucky Jim]

Hey oz, I'm w/Tattered Heart.  Talk is cheap.  What are the actions she is taking that demonstrate her willingness to address the issues?  So far, from what you are saying, it seems like just different variations on the sam there: F-O-G.  Stay strong and "damn the torpedos!"

LuckyJim

[ozmatoz]

The only thing she's offered is to remove her "non-negotiable" list, and acknowledged that there are times she says the wrong things in an emotional blast.  She's admitted she has abandonment fears and still acts like a 12 year old girl when her dad walked out on them (a real desertion walk out, not taking space and being involved).  The bargaining/begging only lasted for a few days.  When I refused to return home, now I am being told I'm a horrible person neglecting his duties to his family.  She still blames me for her DV arrest, and thinks I'm a p--sy for not being able to take some crap from her.

As far as anything concrete?  No.  Zilch.  No talk of therapy, no talk of counseling.  The only acceptable thing in her mind is for me to move back in 100%  even if I have to "fake it till you make it".  But that is also followed up with I would need to earn my way back into her life at this point... .   Very confused.

Just today while I am at work she has told me that I seem to have no problem taking care of work instead of my family.  D10 needed to be picked up from school today (sick).  Wife isnt working and is in town, yet because I'm not the one picking her up I'm still neglecting my family.

Really seems like more of the same.  The initial shock of me leaving triggered the begging but she's jumped back into her preferred persecution you are terrible mindset.

She unfriended me on Facebook, then I did things I had to block her for.  Now she has friends taking screen shots of some mental health articles I shared and she's using those to bash me for being "pathetic"... .

Really, how much more of this should I accept?  There is no amount of validation, SET, DEARMAN, JADE that works with her.

I want out of this relationship.  There is no safety here.

[Cat Familiar]

Well, you're definitely getting a clear picture of what she's capable of. And it certainly doesn't look promising for making big changes in the future.

As far as getting out of the relationship, she's given you a gift. So often people, when confronted with losing a relationship, are able to put in the effort to pretend that they will do better, only to renege on their promises once partners return to the marriage. But she doesn't seem capable of that.

So it makes for an easier decision. Clarity is painful, but not nearly as painful as staying in a relationship with abuse, blame and shame and little to no appreciation.

[ozmatoz]

So it makes for an easier decision. Clarity is painful, but not nearly as painful as staying in a relationship with abuse, blame and shame and little to no appreciation.

Clarity is certainly painful.  Most of my friends that are in healthier relationships can't fathom how I've stayed.  But they don't know the hell that lurks ahead if papers get filed.
Someone posted a few weeks back about feeling like you're on death row.  Is the pain to get out worse than the pain of living this way?  Its not like everything is terrible all the time, but she has shown her true colors and frankly no matter if the surface looks shiny I know what is lurking beneath.

Perhaps its the time of year with Christmas coming up that I'm afraid to push it.  But of course D10's birthday falls quickly after that, then school vaca then... .then... . 

Feels like life is slipping by.  I wish there was some way to convince her she'd be better off without me.  Happier even, if she gets the urge to want to leave rather than divorcing me as punishment.  I've been secretly hoping she finds her next target... .isnt that sad?

[Lucky Jim]

I've been secretly hoping she finds her next target... .isnt that sad?

No, oz, I think that's normal to long for some outside event to provide an easier escape.  Yet it rarely works that way.  Instead, you will have to walk through the eye of the storm in order to get to the other side, if that's what you decide to do.  It's rough sledding, no doubt, particularly with a pwBPD involved, yet that's the only way, in my view, to get to the place where greater happiness can be found.  I don't want to sugarcoat it, oz, because it's likely to be a rough ride.  Yet staying is likely to be even rougher, or at least sadder.  We are here to help no matter what path you elect to take.

LuckyJim

[ozmatoz]

Thanks LuckyJim.  I know the eye of the storm is waiting for me and it is completely terrifying.

The only way I can get out of this is by my own will.  I'm just not sure staying is sustainable, she is so resistant to take any ownership or offer ways to let us both do some independent healing.  She insists we need to heal "as one".  Nope, I need to heal for me.

Thank you all.

[Cat Familiar]

I know the eye of the storm is waiting for me and it is completely terrifying.

Yes, it can appear terrifying, when you look at it in its totality and enormity. However, when you take it one step at a time, day by day, it breaks it down into manageable pieces. And know that you're far more capable of handling the day to day business of dealing with this than a pwBPD.

That said, it still sucks to go through all the legal hoops and deal with false claims and BS. However, there is a point at which it is a done deal and you've obtained your freedom. That made it all worth the ordeal for me.

Another thing I should mention is that as I gradually unwound my life from his, I was buoyed by the emotional freedom I was obtaining on a day to day basis. That kept me motivated and invigorated as I navigated the path to divorce.

[Radcliff]

Hey Oz, my apologies for being slow to tune into your news.  I have to say, I am proud of you.  Fantastic news that you're taking some definitive steps.  When you disturb a system, you learn a lot about its characteristics, and it sounds like there's a lot of learning going on.

All of the things about your wife's behavior are sadly familiar to me, and knowing more of her backstory completes another piece of the puzzle.  My wife's father died when she was very young.  Understanding their history helps us with empathy, but it also makes it so terribly difficult to draw a line and keep from being consumed ourselves when we've built a life around taking care of them. 

I don't know if your wife has other trauma in her history.  Mine does.  My therapist said something very useful the other day.  I was taking with her about the drama triangle, and my wife's role as a victim, with me as rescuer.  She asked how it would look if I replaced the word "victim" with "survivor."  I said that a survivor sounds like someone more capable of taking care of themselves than a victim.  Bingo.  Perhaps try thinking of your wife as an adult survivor of her history, not a victim. 

You are setting a courageous example for your daughters about how a person ought to be treated, and about setting boundaries for yourself.  Without your present courage, they would be at great risk of either rolling over others' boundaries as adults (like your wife) or having their own boundaries rolled over (like you).  I know that either outcome is totally unacceptable to you, and I bet you'd move mountains to keep it from happening.  When you feel your resolve wavering, let your powerful fatherly love drive you through the storm.

I think you have an opportunity here.  My thoughts are heavily colored by my own recent experience, but since our wives have appeared to be twins separated from birth for these last few months we've been talking, perhaps my experience is reasonably relevant.  I'll also ask the others to jump in and let us know if they think I'm off base.

First, before I talk about the opportunity, let me say that I deeply appreciate what a tough spot you are in, how difficult it is for a caretaker to look out for themselves, and that your true path may be to leave, and I don't want to push you away from that.  I believe in you to make the best decision for your situation.

OK, so your wife's initial reaction meant a lot to me.  Clearly she fears losing you.  You've got enough perspective and strength to know that going back to the old way is unacceptable.  That is freaking awesome.  Do not waver.  If you feel yourself wavering, think about the example you're setting for your daughters and your resolve will strengthen.  So the opportunity could be for you to remain strong where you are, and for you to show your wife a path back to you.  She might take it, she might not.  You might be terrified that she will not take it and at the same time be terrified that she will!

Cutting to the chase, I'd go DBT or bust.  Rarely on these boards do we come out with a strong recommendation like that, so I leave it to the wise others to moderate if necessary.  But DBT or bust is what I'm sayin'.

My recent experience definitely started as caretaking, but I'm hoping that it marks the end of caretaking.  I went to www.behavioraltech.org, and found local DBT providers and called a couple.  See https://behavioraltech.org/resources/find-a-therapist-app/.  They are not all listed there, so I asked my therapist if she knew of any, and also did a local Web search.  I had planted the seed months before about DBT, so my wife knew that I thought it could help us.  I mentioned the name of a DBT therapist a couple of miles away.  I never said, ":)BT or else."  Nor did I say anything about BPD recently.  But my wife knew that I thought DBT could help us, and I made sure she knew that I loved her but was not going to waver after I took drastic action.  She knew that DBT was the one path back.  She found a DBT therapist and started seeing the therapist on her own as a way to win me back, and suddenly found that the sessions were helping her, and it started to feel like a lifeline for her.  She had hope for the first time that she could find a way out of the darkness.  This after 30 years of saying that therapy was a waste of time and she'd never go.

If you stand firm but loving, and show your wife a path, she may take it.  It won't be easy.  She'll try every trick in the book.  You have to be ready for it not to work out.  But it may.

Despite the fact that you and I seem to have married twin sisters, I know that your path may diverge from mine at some point.  No matter what happens, I believe in your ability to get to a good place and make a great life for you and your daughters.  I'm hoping all of this helps, but chart your own course.

WW 

p.s. I'm reading a book called Boundaries that you might find useful, by Cloud and Townsend.  It's pretty heavy on scripture references, more than my style, but it's been useful enough I'm quite glad to be reading it now.  You'll recognize yourself and your wife in there

[formflier]

OZ,

What is your status in T?  What is the kids status in T?  I got the vibe your wife wants nothing to do with it?

I would encourage you to think through and then take action on ways for you and your kids to use T as a way to help take your lives and your relationships to a healthier place. 

Your wife will do... .what your wife will do.

She is going to take longer to realize that you will do, what you will do. 

Once both of you understand that reality, there is potential for a healthier relationship, regardless of the status of your marriage. 

Maintain the big picture, there are children involved, there will be a relationship with her.

FF

[ozmatoz]

Wow, thanks everyone, just reading these replies has helped calm my nerves a bit.

There has been a bit of a change as of late night into this morning.  As an exercise I asked her instead of just yelling at me to write to me what she was sad and afraid about right now.
90% of her list was about me and things I was doing wrong to cause her sadness/fear.  I would say that out of that 90% maybe half were reality and at least to a non would seem fairly inconsequential.  She did not ask me to do the same.  I had to inform her that I would like the opportunity to respond as well which eventually I did.  I tried to reply to some of her statements and add some honest parts of my own.  Even if they were hard truths about divorce, building walls, not wanting to engage with her... .

Her reply kept splitting between, being done to please come home all morning.
We had a pretty extensive "fight" after the kids were in school.  She now says she'd be open to seeing her therapist again (last time I can recall was over 2 years ago).  She claims that she knows she hid behind her anger, she knows that lashing out was what pushed me away.

She also states that me leaving was a direct assault on her biggest fears and she's not sure how to deal with me crossing that boundary.  But I've heard this before... .this is the last (insert whatever).

She tried to reach out to hold my hand and I physically could not even let her near me.
She demands that I move back in until Christmas is over and we can split then if I still feel the way I do.  I just see this as a trap and excuse for current behavior to continue.

I moved out for many reasons, but there are two big ones.  First I just could not stand the daily verbal and emotional attacks anymore.  I feel bad leaving the housework and bulk of childcare to her, but she claimed for years I did nothing anyways.  Secondly and more importantly as a direct result of both her and I being caustic around each other I realized that I cannot possibly heal anything for myself and it was only contributing to the drama.  I couldn't breathe  It was evident this morning, that while I miss the house, the kids, the dogs just being in her presence was triggering for me.  I am emotionally terrified of her.  We have not had a real relationship in so long that just adding to this mess really makes me want to run away from her.

I told her that it seemed impossible for her to understand my reasons and that I continue to need some space to let me blood cool.  The last thing I want is for this to end in an explosion (I'm ok with it ending at this point).  She said to me that she doesn't understand my reasons, but understands that it seems to be a non-negotiable for me and I will do what I need to do.  This is followed by her stating that taking space and being in limbo is still not acceptable to her and if I continue to ask for space she will consider it over and do what she needs to do (She has said file for contested divorce).

To Formflier's point I will always have a relationship with her.  That is why if this plane is coming in to land I don't want it to crash.  I told my wife that I have a visit with T in the morning and would talk to her about why I feel such a block, why I am so emotionally closed up that I can't even consider being in the same room with her.  I doubt the reason will change anything quickly but I do need this to thaw eventually to keep the kids in the best place possible.  D16 has been visiting a T and needs to schedule another appointment.  D10 hasnt warmed up to the idea yet but I have some ideas on how to ease her into it.

I think my wife will eventually go back to seeing her regular T but she is not the type that would seek out or stick with DBT.  It would just be one more fight.

[ozmatoz]

Just for context the fight ended this morning with her calling me asking to say one last thing.
She wanted me to know that she didn't feel that I would really get anything out of my T visit tomorrow that would change anything.  I told her that I understood and that very well may be the case, but you never know, things have clicked there before.  She said ok and hung up.

Two minutes later I got another call promising she had only one last thing to say to me... .
She said she believes I moved out because I was looking for peace.  She understands.  She believes that if I could have and feel the peace at home I would be ok.  I could have and be around the kids and work on our relationship in peace.  I said that was interesting and we hung up.  Peace does sound like heaven... .do I believe its achievable at home?  no.

Now just received this text:
"I'm sorry.  I can't live with this pit in my stomach anymore.  If you really loved me you wouldn't want me to.  You did what you needed to do.  So did I."

Am I wrong feeling like that text is trying to manipulate or guilt me in some way?  I can't make heads or tails of her behavior. 

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Oz, The F-O-G is rolling in, so brace yourself.  Of course that's an attempt to manipulate you, through guilt and possibly fear (she did what she needed to do?).  My suggestion: stay in the center, without getting drawn into the drama.

LuckyJim

[formflier]

  I can't make heads or tails of her behavior. 

Energy spent trying to figure it out "in detail", is likely energy wasted.  You know this is about FOG... she is trying to get you back in line, even though she may not have a coherent thought of doing that.  I hope that makes sense.

Please understand the likelihood that she hangs up and is "reflective" and "plotting" and figures out "OK... I'm going to call him and say xyz and that will make him do abc... ." is ABOUT ZERO.

A big part of BPD is "poor executive control".  She has a thought... .there is an emotional reaction... .there is no filter... .she reacts or sends it your way.

She likely feels somewhat better after doing that... .and a day later (or an hour) she may "remember" what she said completely differently... because she had a different thought.

Don't get drawn in. 

Perhaps schedule her calls... .make it about being important.

"Hey... this seems really important to you, I can't talk right now but have time blocked out at 2pm.  Can we talk then?"

Then... .quickly resolve and end the conversation because "you can't talk now".

Ignore texts... .let them roll in and perhaps only check them ever couple hours.  It will lessen YOUR reactivity which is good.

FF

[ozmatoz]

Good advice, I never replied to it.  Nothing else has come in since.  Although I don't expect it to stay that way.

One trouble with her calls is that if I tell her I'm busy or ask to call back, (or worse don't answer) she instantly dysregulates and its off to the races

I think I was able to not reply because... well if she really DID what she had to do... .we are on to the the next steps and the lawyers can duke it out.  Nothing left at the moment to drain my energy into.  I'll go home, have a beer and sleep.

Thank you FF for the reminder of no filter, into the mind-out of the mouth... .its good to keep that in perspective.  The topics themselves are often confusing enough, trying to decipher why they come in when they do... .hopeless.


I'll try to stay out of the drama tonight,
-Oz

[formflier]

One trouble with her calls is that if I tell her I'm busy or ask to call back, (or worse don't answer) she instantly dysregulates and its off to the races
 

Start a habit of not answering... .and follow it with a polite text.

"Clobbered with meetings at the moment, I'll touch base when I get free."

I'm reluctant to hold yourself to a time, unless you say something like.

"Not able to take your call now.  I'll try to contact you between 2 and 3pm."


You are not SOLVING anything by answering the phone.  You mentioned that if you don't answer she will dysregulate... .  Do you see how she is controlling you through "fear" of dysregulation.  Again... it's not a detailed thought or plot on her part... .but has the same effect.

Perhaps answer the first call and make reference to "about to start a long meeting"... .  What kind of work do you do?  It needs to be something that makes sense.

Can you see how she has "fear" of T... .(therefore suggest you don't go).  It's best not to mention it at all... .

"Thanks for your interest and suggestion."  (does anything else really need to be said?)

FF

[40days_in_desert]

ozmatoz - It looks like this has been addressed several times in this thread but wanted to add my 2 cents. My ex has tried to recycle our relationship 4 times since February. The first time I almost fell for it but as mentioned here, she only offered words.
She felt "scared, pressured and even threatened" when I mentioned her leaving her boyfriend as a prerequisite to reconciliation. Which would have been a good first action step to showing what she said (wanting to reconcile). She's still with him and was with him during all 4 recycle attempts.

You're not alone. Actions have to match up with the words.

[formflier]

Actions have to match up with the words.

At a minimum.

Much better for actions to "lead" words. 

"I've left my boyfriend and I'm spending time thinking about my future.  It would mean a lot to me for you to join me in a conversation about us."

FF

[ozmatoz]

Interesting thoughts FF.  Often when she has my head spinning I do not reply in a BPD friendly manner.  I have tried the text saying I will call you back shortly, but that generally means she keeps demanding when when when... .

We did have drama last night, but I did a good job trying to stay out of it.  It centered around me not answering her and her mind jumping to a conclusion that I was out with another women on a date which then lead to some extremely jealous behavior. 

Truth is I was out with a good mutual friend who has seen a glimpse of what I deal with.  He watched the 40+ calls and 100+ texts roll in and just looked at me and said wow, it really is as bad as you say it is.  It was good to get some validation and it helped me stay strong in not jumping into the triangle.

40days, I hear the words scared, pressured and threatened from her as well.  To FF point on your post my wife's actions are opposite of her words, then even after she's toned/calmed down they are still just words with no action. 

I really need to find a way to carefully extricate myself from this r/s.  She is so far from actions that would show true reconciliation and frankly there is no love left.

She has me terrified of making the final push to get out of this.  I keep thinking my block is that I don't want to go through the hell, I know my kids will get dragged through it too.
Really sad.

[formflier]

  but that generally means she keeps demanding when when when... .

 
She has me terrified of making the final push to get out of this. 

To be clear... .I'm not suggesting that you engaging later will "make" her happy.  Although it would seem giving her a time is a good thing to start doing... .give a time range.  "Between 3 and 4"


Yep... terrified... .that is her "goal", although I doubt she has that goal as part of a plot.

It would seem that the feelings she is trying to get you to feel... well... .is it working?

FF

[ozmatoz]

It would seem that the feelings she is trying to get you to feel... well... .is it working?

FF

She's doing a good job.  I'm not sure if she really is intentional at trying to create fear, its just how she operates and she knows it works.  The problem where I get stuck is her "ultimatums" are so extreme that... .man if she follows through big problems are happening.  As a sensible human I understand those risks but I don't think she does.  Its a perpetual cycle of me needing to protect the family and her from herself.  I didn't sign up for that!

[Radcliff]

formflier, thanks for making the point about executive control.  That's helpful for me to remember in my situation, as well.  I was discussing with my T how deliberate some of my wife's patterns seemed to be, and she essentially made the same point you did.  She has been talking about the frontal cortex (where executive function lives) and the primitive base of the brain.  The non-executive brain seems to be repeating the same behaviors over and over.

Oz, I'm glad you're getting the space you need.  I can relate to absolutely not being able to breath (literally at times) when she is even in the same house.

I've got a few random thoughts based on your last post... .

Save screenshots of texts and call log of missed calls from your wife when you were out with that friend.  Someday you may be dealing with custody issues and trying to get someone to understand why you left.  A screenshot of a call log with dozens of missed calls really makes an impression.  That, plus your genuine care for your kids that will show in everything you say, plus what your kids will say about you, will tell a compelling story.  Also, keep a journal of all of the things you do for and with your kids, and any housework or home maintenance work you do during this time.  It's a bit of extra effort now, but will make it much easier and less stressful to tell your story later if you find yourself needing to.

I could really relate to your sentiment about protecting your wife from herself.  It is distressing to worry about them doing something that not only hurts us or our children, but also runs counter to their own best interest.  I am practicing letting go and not being a caretaker.  I'm still getting the hang of it, but when I'm succeeding, it's liberating.  One question, and I know it's a long shot.  Does she have any FOO family who are steady and calming?  I figure if one existed, you might have mentioned them by now, but if you were lucky to have that you could anoint a new caretaker and then step back.  But you may just need to step back.

On other thought, in case you end up working on custody issues.  I know it's early, but I don't want to miss mentioning this later.  For the physical custody, the time D16 spends at each place, you may want to make her a "free agent," not beholden to any set schedule.  Can she drive?  If not, I'd put that in motion.  She is only getting older, and it makes sense to support her agency.  Given your strong relationship with her, it may mean that you get more time with her, and at the very least may mean that she's with you when she needs you most.

WW

[formflier]

She's doing a good job.  I'm not sure if she really is intentional at trying to create fear, its just how she operates and she knows it works.  The problem where I get stuck is her "ultimatums" are so extreme that... .man if she follows through big problems are happening.  As a sensible human I understand those risks but I don't think she does.  Its a perpetual cycle of me needing to protect the family and her from herself.  I didn't sign up for that!

I hate to say this, because I know it will be scary and there likely will be negative consequences for you and your family... .

Big breath...

Take a step back, put better boundaries in place and then let your wife do, what she will do.

When she threatens... .be honest and authentic... ."Oh baby... that would make me so sad.  That's not what I want."  Then drop it.  Perhaps... perhaps add in... ."I'm about to head into a meeting, can me talk more about this tomorrow at 1245"

Big picture... .she is not going to do the threats.  She is more likely to do the threats the "madder" she gets.  The more you talk... .the madder she gets.  Unless of course you are capitulating, which feeds dysfunction in another way.  Don't capitulate.

Focus on expending far less energy on threats.  You can attempt to slow it down (delay to next day). 

You can also try to validate or find something to agree on (agreeing is VERY powerful... .when you can do it).

"I agree, that shouldn't have happened... ."


"You sound angry about this... .?"

listen... if she agrees

"I agree you should be angry... "

Do you see where I am going with this?  I think you have created and illusion for yourself where YOU are taking credit for bad things not happening.  You have kicked your own ass and wore yourself out in the process... .

That energy can be "spent" better in other places... .

FF

[Radcliff]

Well said, formflier, thank you.  I'm going to steal what you've said and use it for myself as well   I have been getting better at not getting sucked into the drama, but it's two steps forward and one step back.  Man, is it difficult.  But worth the effort for sure.

WW

[formflier]

  I have been getting better at not getting sucked into the drama, 

Be aware that many times the first step or two into drama seem so innocent, and many time they are completely innocent.

In my own relationship, especially after long periods of calm... .largely devoid of dysfunction, I will get sucked in for a while, until I realize what road my wife appears to want to go down.

Once I realize it, sort of a pre-planned response happens.  Not to say it's wrong, but to day I don't understand and need time to think it through... .my big picture is to slow things down, step back from drama and let whatever BPD fire is burning... .let it burn itself out with minimal additional fuel from me.

Said another way, it's not that you learn to walk around with defenses up all the time and never make a mistake... .it's that you realize that you are going down the wrong path when 3-5 steps down the path, instead of 20.  You also have the determination and skills needed to clean up your part of the mess and allow your partner to wallow in or clean up their own mess.

Hope the visual makes sense.

Last... .if push pull rears it's head in a major way, that you "mirror" what they are doing, but make sure you are closer to "center".  So... .they blather on about never wanting to see you ever again (sending a push), you can "push" as well, just give them a "a little space would be relaxing right now... "

FF

[ozmatoz]

Last... .if push pull rears it's head in a major way, that you "mirror" what they are doing, but make sure you are closer to "center".  So... .they blather on about never wanting to see you ever again (sending a push), you can "push" as well, just give them a "a little space would be relaxing right now... "

What about if a pull, like really insane pull happens?  I can deal with the push, I don't mind taking a step out and "pushing" back a bit to let things burn out.

What I can't deal with is now that I've moved out, all the talk of how good things can be, she will stand by me no matter what, she'll love me through all of my pain... .sending me picture after picture, text after texts.  Its nauseating and I feel like its intention is to beat me back into the relationship so she can slide back into the terrible BPD role again.  I'm too soft sometimes I just can't find the strength to do something drastic.

I have told her that she is crossing boundaries and the result is I need to pull back further, I have asked her to stop and she tells me she cant.  she just cant stop.  I feel like I'm against the roped getting punched over and over except there is no ref to call the fight!

This is hell.

[formflier]

Exact same theory with pull.  Your job is to "get between" where they are on a 1 to 10 scale and zero... .which is the neural position.

So, they give you a 6 on the pull.  "hey baby... .I miss you... you are the best, I need to get my paws on you and make you holler... ."

You give them a 2 or 3 back  "Thanks!... .I'd like to spend time with you too... " perhaps a bit nonchalantly... .to a bit interested.


When they give you a 6 on push... ."you stink... you need to shower... .your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries... ."

Give them a 2 or 3  "Whew... .yeah... .I could use some space too... "

Make sense... .stay between them and neutral... .

FF