Maxed out to the limit

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I guess I have reached the limit to responses of a post I made awhile back.  The initial topic was thinking I had messed up.  Came to light that I hadn't.  A lot has happened.  My H exploded on me a few days ago about the way our oldest son was dressed.  Dressed in shorts instead of pants  Anyways, I believe I updated that he apologized etc. 

I haven't been feeling well.  He snapped at me a couple nights ago.  He asked what the hell was wrong with me.  Simply said, I'm tired and walked into the bedroom.  I didn't care.  I laid down on the bed.  I fell asleep.  I woke up when I heard him getting into the shower.  I cleaned up and changed into pjs and laid under the covers.  He came to bed.  I didn't say a word.  He asked how I was feeling.  Told him.  He seemed genuinely concerned.  He didn't get upset.  Asked if I wouldn't mind making a sandwich.  I said sure, when I was getting up he said thank you and love you.

I still have in the back on my mind my grab bag plan.  Been talking to my girlfriend to keep her updated about what is going on.  Having someone that is physically there to help me, knows what is going on, and is ready to help if it comes to that, has given me peace of mind.  Knowing I won't be going into the cold alone.  I told her I never wanted to put her in this position and she said it was her choice to talk to me and offer her help.  She knows about the encounter I had with him.  She's been checking in on me every couple of days.

I don't know what is going through my H's head.  I have been keeping my distance.  Even last night when he came home early.  I limited my interaction with him.  I didn't indicate I was avoiding him or ignoring him.  Just kept things neutral.   He never got upset or yelled about anything the whole time.  When I laid down with our youngest because he was refusing to go to sleep, he let me sleep. 

I'm not letting this whatever is going on affect my decision to have a plan to exit if it ever comes down to it.  I'm still very serious when I talked to him about leaving.  I'm not scared about it anymore.  I don't feel in immediate danger, but I know from past experiences that this period doesn't always last.  I'm going to work on what I need to keep the kids and myself safe.

[Frankee]

I guess I have reached the limit to responses of a post I made awhile back.  The initial topic was thinking I had messed up.  Came to light that I hadn't.  A lot has happened.  My H exploded on me a few days ago about the way our oldest son was dressed.  Dressed in shorts instead of pants  Anyways, I believe I updated that he apologized etc. 

I haven't been feeling well.  He snapped at me a couple nights ago.  He asked what the hell was wrong with me.  Simply said, I'm tired and walked into the bedroom.  I didn't care.  I laid down on the bed.  I fell asleep.  I woke up when I heard him getting into the shower.  I cleaned up and changed into pjs and laid under the covers.  He came to bed.  I didn't say a word.  He asked how I was feeling.  Told him.  He seemed genuinely concerned.  He didn't get upset.  Asked if I wouldn't mind making a sandwich.  I said sure, when I was getting up he said thank you and love you.

I still have in the back on my mind my grab bag plan.  Been talking to my girlfriend to keep her updated about what is going on.  Having someone that is physically there to help me, knows what is going on, and is ready to help if it comes to that, has given me peace of mind.  Knowing I won't be going into the cold alone.  I told her I never wanted to put her in this position and she said it was her choice to talk to me and offer her help.  She knows about the encounter I had with him.  She's been checking in on me every couple of days.

I don't know what is going through my H's head.  I have been keeping my distance.  Even last night when he came home early.  I limited my interaction with him.  I didn't indicate I was avoiding him or ignoring him.  Just kept things neutral.   He never got upset or yelled about anything the whole time.  When I laid down with our youngest because he was refusing to go to sleep, he let me sleep. 

I'm not letting this whatever is going on affect my decision to have a plan to exit if it ever comes down to it.  I'm still very serious when I talked to him about leaving.  I'm not scared about it anymore.  I don't feel in immediate danger, but I know from past experiences that this period doesn't always last.  I'm going to work on what I need to keep the kids and myself safe.

[formflier]

  I limited my interaction with him.  I didn't indicate I was avoiding him or ignoring him.  Just kept things neutral.  

 

Solid work. 

FF

[Radcliff]

Frankee, let me echo formflier -- good work!  It seems like you're doing a good job doing what you need to do to keep yourself safe, contribute where you can to calm, watch out for your kids and yourself, ask for and receive support, and be mindful of the long term.  Hmm... .that's a long list, and you're nailing all of them!  I know sometimes it's hard in these situations to tell which end is up, let alone what to do about it, but you are doing a great job!

WW

[Radcliff]

Hello Frankee,

I just caught up on your older thread.  Your tone in that thread vs. this one is notably different -- it sounds like you've steadied a bit and are a woman with a plan.  I know it's hard.  Don't be surprised if you start to feel like things are out of control again, and you have to work to regain lost ground.  Especially if you start asserting yourself against controlling or disrespectful behaviors, he may push back hard, which is why HQ and others I'm sure have encouraged you to be deliberate and consider all your planning together.

I wanted to share a couple of the most useful links I found when I was trying to figure out what was abuse, and what the difference was between simply unhealthy stuff and abusive stuff.  You may have seen this already, particularly the Power Wheel.  You can learn more about the differences between healthy, unhealthy, and abusive behavior by looking at a very useful graphic called the Relationship Spectrum.  A particularly helpful page on abuse defined shows how many different forms of abuse there can be, in particularly non-physical controlling behaviors.

Finally, dealing with abuse and BPD together can be pretty confusing and difficult.  Of course, many of the behaviors of someone with BPD could be considered abusive, and for many I think these behaviors may just be an expression of BPD.  But at some point, I've come to believe, the abuse can become a beast of its own, and then you're dealing with two intertwined problems.  Sometimes what we've learned to do from the BPD coping perspective might differ from the advice we get from the abuse perspective.  It can be tough to figure out what to do!  When I was stuck, one of the elders on this board advised me to deal with the abuse first.  That was the start of me finding my way out of the wilderness (I'm still on my way out, but at least I'm on my way!).  Don't throw your BPD coping tools out -- you'll still be able to use them everyday -- but deal with the abuse first.

If I haven't made you doze off yet... .one thing that helps me understand why the abuse comes first is Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs.  The things at the bottom of his pyramid have to be satisfied first (physiologic needs, safety).  Abuse is about safety.  And I'm including emotional safety here.  BPD relationship stuff tends to be higher up the pyramid.

This won't be fixed overnight.  You are starting a journey here.  But you are on your way 

Please keep us posted on how things are going for you.

WW

[Frankee]

Thank you for the replies.  I opened the articles that were mentioned the Relationship Spectrum and Maslow's.  I haven't read them yet, but have the pages marked when I get a chance.  I had a slight epiphany last night.  I was about to get changed and asked if he needed anything before I went into the bathroom.  He asked if there was cereal.  Said no, was planning to get it tomorrow. And he goes... Kaboom... .I went to the grocery store that night, but didn't like the selection so was going to a different store today.

He snapped and went on one of his verbal assaults, throwing everything including the kitchen sink at me.  Looked at him and thought... this is his issue, there is something going on with him, this is not my fault, I try very hard and what he is saying is not true.  Then he gave me an out.  Told me to go get cereal since I didn't get it.  Saw my chance to exit the situation.  Took too long to get my shoes on though.  He changed his mind.  I casually said that I don't mind going and I will be right back.  He kept saying no.

Once I could exit the room, I went to the kitchen.  Made myself busy with cleaning.  I decided, you know what... if he wants me to not do grocery shopping or touch the bills... I won't.  He says he does everything.  He locked himself in the bedroom for 4 hours while I was out in the house taking care of everything and the kids.  I laughed to myself.  He said... he does everything around here, I keep messing up, so now my only responsibility from now on is taking care of the house and kids.  You know what... that's exactly what I will do.   I'm going to let him see what "doing everything" really means.

It came to me.  What he considers "messing up" is stuff that any normal human being does.  The short thing, even he said that he knows the school doesn't make a big deal because we live in a warm area with cold being rare.  Yet, last night, that was considered a "mess up" again.  I forgot to mark a bill down until I received the notification.  We still had two weeks to pay, still a "mess up".  I didn't get what he wants from the grocery store, a "mess up".  When I try to make something different, he complains he doesn't like it, when I make the same stuff he likes, it's prison food.  I realize, he literally wants the "perfect" partner.  Somebody who will cater to his constant change of mind, NEVER do anything wrong, always make sure that he has exactly what he wants. 

He's stressed about saving money, he feels left out of the family, feels he is on the outside looking in, feels that me not getting stuff he wants from the store is me ignoring him.  Last night he said very mean and nasty things.  Once I was alone, I vented. I know how much I do for our family.  I'm not hurt, mad, angry, resentful, or sad.  Just... meh.  Genuinely not letting his verbal attack get to me last night and even waking up in a good mood... small achievement for me.

[formflier]

 
OK... .   you are starting to get it.

I would caution about a "I'll show him" attitude or "I'll let him experience what he says he wants... "

Can you see how there can be some "tit for tat" in that... .very close to a fight... .stay away from fighting.

Cereal:  Please stop solving things for him.  When he asks... why not say "I'm not sure babe... .it's usually in the top of the pantry.  Let me know if we need more, I can pick it up tomorrow."

He comes to you for answers and then gets grumpy with you for those answers.  A better way.  Gently let him know he can get his own answers.

After all, he can walk and look just as good as you can.  Plus... .unless you just looked... you really don't know.

OK... now for the big thing  You don't need a reason to walk away from abuse

"i'm not going to have a conversation when harsh words are between us"  pause.  "I'll check back with you in 10 minutes."  Walk away, go to other side of house and relax.  Breath long deep inhales and exhales.

Let him flip out... .or not.  You take care of you.

Then check in after 10 minutes.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Very important:  "I'm not going to listen to you when you are yelling a me... "  (bad bad bad)  Look at this compared to my suggestion.

In my example, you are stating your values and it is not personal to anyone.  You don't have conversations when harsh words are there.  Plus you reference togetherness and the reason for "apartness".  The harsh words are "between us".  You give a time to reduce separation anxiety.

Last:  Stop solving things for him he can do for himself, especially if he is an a$$ about it.  Stop rescuing, a very close cousin to solving.

Keep up the hard work!  
FF

[Frankee]

I would caution about a "I'll show him" attitude or "I'll let him experience what he says he wants... "

Can you see how there can be some "tit for tat" in that... .very close to a fight... .stay away from fighting.

After all, he can walk and look just as good as you can.  Plus... .unless you just looked... you really don't know.

What about doing it in a way where it's not like... in your face, haha, see told you so kind of way.  More of a nonchalant way where I do it because that's what he said he wants.  I really don't think it will last, never has in the past.

I actually did know there wasn't.  Knew I had gone to the store and didn't get the cereal he wanted because they didn't have it at the store I went too.

OK... now for the big thing  You don't need a reason to walk away from abuse

"i'm not going to have a conversation when harsh words are between us"  pause.  "I'll check back with you in 10 minutes."  Walk away, go to other side of house and relax.  Breath long deep inhales and exhales.

Let him flip out... .or not.  You take care of you.

Stop rescuing, a very close cousin to solving.

Still trying to figure out a way to gracefully exit when he becomes like that.  It was at night and the kids were asleep.  He was already starting to shout.  I knew that my trying to do let's talk when we are calm, not going to converse right now with harsh words, etc.  90% of the time escalates to more aggressive behavior.  I may not have handled it right in that aspect.  It's just with the circumstances and me being able to dissociate at that moment, helped prevent things from escalating to where it might have woken the kids.

I totally hear that part about not rescuing.  I try to be aware of that.  I feel he thought I probably was doing that when I volunteered to get the cereal.  I felt it was a way to actually leave the house without him thinking I was running away and flip out.

We went to bed like an old married couple.  Slept on opposite sides of the bed.  Not talking.  Got up once when the baby woke up.  When I came back to bed, he rolled me to him and wrapped me up.  I didn't reject or saying anything.  I don't feel bad about how I handled the situation.   I don't feel anxious or worried.  Even the verbal attack didn't seem to affect me how it use too.  Still doesn't make it right.  Still doesn't mean I should put up with it.  I always struggled with disassociation, think I got it right last night though.

[formflier]

There is no graceful way to do it.  Just do it.

Say it... .walk out. 

You have trained him to know what keeps you there, so don't be shocked that he keeps doing the things that keep you there.  He "wants" to send his emotional issues to you.  "Emotionally vomit" on you... so to speak.

Listen... .if you can't figure out the words... .walk away.  That is better than staying to take it.  Best is to practice what I have given you... .then say it without thinking... .in a neutral way... .and walk away.

2
I would say solving less things for him, even if you are sure you have no cereal, is the right way to go.  Let him grow up...   He wants cereal... .he goes to you.  Much better... .he wants cereal... .he gets cereal... .offers you a bowl.

3
I would continue to do the things you do with meals and shopping.  If he wants to go, thank him and he will do what he will do.  You continue to do the things for you and your household. 

This is a much more minor point that 1 and 2 above.  Think boundaries and defining roles.  You provide for your family as you see fit.  He does as well.  If you guys can't talk and work as a team, for whatever reason... .you keep doing your part to provide. 

I hope that makes sense.

Can you give me another detailed example of what he wants to do and you want to let him experience it.

FF

[Radcliff]

Frankee, the fact that you're establishing your own reality and not letting him do it for you, that you are self-validating, this is HUGE.  You can see it so quickly in how much better you feel.  It helps you stay whole, and it lays the groundwork for you to start pushing back against abuse.  I am happy you've had this breakthrough!  Keep it up!

formflier has some great advice -- I second what he's said.  You're in the trenches, and will have to make the calls about what changes to make and when.  Making improvements in real life is a messy business and Rome wasn't built in a day.  Take what we're saying as "material" to consider and maybe try out.  Even if only a piece of it makes it successfully into one of your evenings, that's great, then try for more the next time.  Keep at it! 

Again, I'm pretty excited at your breakthrough.  Being able to see the absurdity of what was happening was one of the key milestones in me being able to break out of a bad situation.  One caution, though, is that once I realized this I started to get a little cantankerous and disrespectful, so my wife doubled down.  Keep cool, and be intentional and gradual about the changes you reveal on the outside.

WW

[Frankee]

The fact that you're establishing your own reality and not letting him do it for you, that you are self-validating, this is HUGE.  You can see it so quickly in how much better you feel.

Thank you for the encouragement.    I seem to have been able to make slight changes that have helped me out in certain circumstances.  I didn't update, but he sent a message yesterday. 
I love you.  I'm sorry about getting mad last night.  I'm sorry for the things I said too.  I didn't mean any of it.  I'm still working on my anger.  I just snap sometimes.  I'm not sure why.  I'll figure it out though.

I talked to my girlfriend.  I'm going to go with the tide at the moment.  I still am preparing a grab bag and making emergency lists.  Her boyfriend made some great suggestions about where I can stash an emergency bag.  I'm going to pack one for the boys as well.  She agrees with me that even though he apologized and may be trying to genuinely work on his issues, the moment he loses sight of that could result in another back lash.  I'm not going to sit around and be unprepared. 

Again, I'm pretty excited at your breakthrough.  Being able to see the absurdity of what was happening was one of the key milestones in me being able to break out of a bad situation.  One caution, though, is that once I realized this I started to get a little cantankerous and disrespectful, so my wife doubled down. 

I kept being told kind of what you're talking about.  Think it's referred to as extiction burst.  I experienced that awhile ago. 

I read Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs.  I can why the higher up parts can be affected if basic needs aren't met.  I hope that I have the same ability to disassociate next time he acts that way.  I just try to keep telling myself I am trying very hard. 

I think I might take a break for a little bit.  I post on here alot to get tips and advice.  While it's helped great, I need to find out what makes me happy.  I always talk about issues going on with my H and trying to get help dealing with all that.  The holidays are around the corner and I don't feel in the cheery holiday spirit.  If I go radio silence, everything is okay.  Just taking some time to sort out what I want to accomplish.  You only have one life.  My friend passed away at 30 years old with two small children.  She was taken too soon.  I miss her, my partner in crime.  We never know when its our time and I'm not wanting to waste anymore of it.

[Radcliff]

I hope that I have the same ability to dissociate next time he acts that way. 

When my wife was going full tilt, and it was too much, I found myself dissociating, or "zoning out."  It got me through, but it left me adrift, and when I was zoned out I was unable to respond to my wife at all, which upset her more.  An improvement, which I recently started practicing, is "mindfulness."  You can start paying attention to the details of the scene around you and start describing them to yourself.  It keeps you connected to the moment and aware, but also keeps you in control of your mind, not overwhelmed by the inbound from your partner.  It takes some practice, and I'm still new at it, but I'm thinking it works better for me than zoning out.

I think I might take a break for a little bit. ... .  The holidays are around the corner and I don't feel in the cheery holiday spirit.  If I go radio silence, everything is okay. 

I understand what you mean.  I just took a break for a couple of days because I had not done any Christmas preparations with my daughters.  I hope you have wonderful holidays.    If you check back in on this thread, the folks who have posted will get a heads up to welcome you back

WW