I have taken my ex to high-court yesterday to get access to my children. (Part1)

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

She was served with the second contempt affidavit on the interim order of 15 December today, and now this. It's in addition to the original contempt charge. The evidence piles up!

That's how things worked for me, too.

Courts began to see a pattern of contempt for court.

Nice not to be the only target!

It went from "he-said, she-said" to "this is a lot of evidence," to "how about we give n/BPDx a bunch of chances" to "what's wrong with this guy?" to "LnL can have full custody so we can get this guy out of my court room."

I wish I could blame the court for taking so long but honestly, the judge figured out ex faster than I did  

I'm so glad your kids are responding to your skilled way of interacting with them, and that court is catching on. Small steps, but at least going in the right direction!

LnL

[livednlearned]

She was served with the second contempt affidavit on the interim order of 15 December today, and now this. It's in addition to the original contempt charge. The evidence piles up!

That's how things worked for me, too.

Courts began to see a pattern of contempt for court.

Nice not to be the only target!

It went from "he-said, she-said" to "this is a lot of evidence," to "how about we give n/BPDx a bunch of chances" to "what's wrong with this guy?" to "LnL can have full custody so we can get this guy out of my court room."

I wish I could blame the court for taking so long but honestly, the judge figured out ex faster than I did  

I'm so glad your kids are responding to your skilled way of interacting with them, and that court is catching on. Small steps, but at least going in the right direction!

LnL

[Moselle]

It went from "he-said, she-said" to "this is a lot of evidence," to "how about we give n/BPDx a bunch of chances" to "what's wrong with this guy?" to "LnL can have full custody so we can get this guy out of my court room."

I'm so glad your kids are responding to your skilled way of interacting with them, and that court is catching on. Small steps, but at least going in the right direction!

The judge is already ready there. He said " keep the second order simple so she doesn't go into contempt and we sit with the same problem of contempt in Jan" Well he picked it. Same problem in Jan.

Yes small steps. Thank you for the support and jiu jitsu training :-)

[ForeverDad]

A general observation here is that Contempt of Court Cases during a divorce are treated like parking tickets.  However, after the divorce the court expect the parents to have let go of the emotions and conflict of the divorce and they're taken much more seriously.

During my divorce I brought a few Contempt cases.  However, they were not all that serious.  Yours were for substantially blocking your parenting time, more serious I think.

My lawyer also started a couple Contempt motions during the divorce, however, once they were ready for a decision, he paused the cases as pending.  He explained to me that if the magistrate made a ruling then the matter would be considered handled, resolved and could not be brought up if we ended up with a trial.  By pausing them at that point it would aid in my ex looking worse legally at a trial.  On Trial Day I arrived at court and was greeted with the news she wanted to settle so that strategy wasn't used.

In the last one, just after the final decree, my ex had taken our son on an out-of-state week-long vacation to visit her family.  But she didn't give me any written, emailed or texted notification nor any specifics.  All she had done was mention once that she wanted to go during Spring Break week.  In those days she barely made phone calls.  Well, she had traded my Friday that week for an earlier day that week so I assumed she had cancelled her plans.  Well, I showed up to get him that Friday evening and she was long gone.  She had taken him for the week following Spring Break and hadn't even notified his school he would be gone for a week.  In court the magistrate ruled she wasn't "technically" (quotes used) in Contempt.  The Final Decree was only weeks old and magistrate stretched logic to the limit by stating the old order was no longer enforceable and the new order was too new to be enforceable.  Even my lawyer was flabbergasted.  Who would have thought my order would have needed a disclaimer clause stating how any "in between" issues would be handled?

[Moselle]

The Final Decree was only weeks old and magistrate stretched logic to the limit by stating the old order was no longer enforceable and the new order was too new to be enforceable.  Even my lawyer was flabbergasted.  Who would have thought my order would have needed a disclaimer clause stating how any "in between" issues would be handled?

So much depends on the judge on the day and their own version of "logic". One day you get a peach, the next you get a lemon. I suppose it's like any profession. You get good ones, average ones and bad ones.

I'm a bit nervous on this one. The judge has given her 5 or 6 opportunities to show any co-operation. She hasn't taken any of them. In fact she is doing the opposite. Being belligerent and obstructive, so I don't see her being in any way cooperative when the judge puts her on the stand.

What will be will be.

This takes such energy and focus. Energy and focus which is better spent on productive pursuits. I'm trying to build a new life at the same time. This is exhausting.  I really just want peace.

[Moselle]

All she has to do to stop this freight train coming at her, is to be reasonable. Is that truly beyond a narc/borderline?

[livednlearned]

All she has to do to stop this freight train coming at her, is to be reasonable. Is that truly beyond a narc/borderline?

 

[Moselle]

My ex is heading straight into a legal freight train on Tuesday. And a 50/50 chance of jail time for repeated and blatant contempt of court.

I asked rather tongue in cheek, In a different thread why she can't just be reasonable? It would save her so much trouble.

I'm actually curious about this. Is there something wrong with their reasoning function in their brain?

[SlyQQ]

JADE, they are used to steamrollering people, and have difficulty with the concept this doesn't always work.

Hopefully she is about to learn one of the most important lessons of her life.

or maybe not,

[Turkish]

I'm not meaning to be flippant,  but she's mentally ill.  Aside from that,  her world view is highly distorted. Personality disorders are,  by definition,  behaviors outside of the norm for a given culture.  It's sad that she's self destructive. Be there for your kids.  As a friend at work told me yesterday,  take care of yourself most of all. He lost his 18 year old son in a car accident two months ago (two younger kids remain).  It was sobering for him to tell me that given what his family has been through.   

[AnuDay]

My ex is heading straight into a legal freight train on Tuesday. And a 50/50 chance of jail time for repeated and blatant contempt of court.

I asked rather tongue in cheek, In a different thread why she can't just be reasonable? It would save her so much trouble.

I'm actually curious about this. Is there something wrong with their reasoning function in their brain?

To answer your question and piggyback on Turkish... .yes, there is something wrong with their brain.  It's called "executive functioning skills".  They do not have this or have very small amounts of it.  To you, what may be a snap decision takes a lot of brain processing power and time for them.  They are limited in their judgment skills and in their ability to make decisions.  They are very poor planners and prognosticators.  On top of all of this their emotions are super out of whack... .so No, I would not expect her to be "reasonable" for any length of time. 

[SlyQQ]

Good point Turk, one thing i came across, that i have learnt to be true is, you can't get someone with a PD to change the way they think, but you can get them to change their strategy, though there precepts maybe flawed, there rational remains consistent


To paraphrase M Linehan,

You may feel crazy, but that doesn't mean you have to act crazy


I showed my Sd a beautiful mind ( the movie ) and riddled her this,

eventually it seemed to help her a lot.

[Moselle]

Thanks for your comments all.

JADE, they are used to steamrollering people, and have difficulty with the concept this doesn't always work.

That makes sense SlyQQ. If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Only a high court judge isn't a nail. She's hitting the tail of a big powerful dog, with her hammer  . He unleashed fury on her on 15 December for contempt on one court order. Now she's in contempt on the second one he issued her on that date. Plus 4 other acts of belligerence.

Hopefully she is about to learn one of the most important lessons of her life, or maybe not

I'm thinking NOT, but I have never seen her back against the wall with absolutely no way out. I don't know if she will come out hammering tomorrow or curl up in a ball and cry. After he unleashed on her in December, the judge made her stand in the witness box for 15 minutes crying until he finished the new order, which she is now in breach on.

I'm not meaning to be flippant,  but she's mentally ill.  Aside from that,  her world view is highly distorted. Personality disorders are,  by definition,  behaviors outside of the norm for a given culture.  It's sad that she's self destructive. Be there for your kids.  As a friend at work told me yesterday,  take care of yourself most of all. He lost his 18 year old son in a car accident two months ago (two younger kids remain).  It was sobering for him to tell me that given what his family has been through.    

Thanks Turkish. I'm trying to be there for myself and the girls. Sorry to hear about your friend at work. That must be heartbreaking.

To answer your question and piggyback on Turkish... .yes, there is something wrong with their brain.  It's called "executive functioning skills".  They do not have this or have very small amounts of it.  To you, what may be a snap decision takes a lot of brain processing power and time for them.  They are limited in their judgment skills and in their ability to make decisions.  They are very poor planners and prognosticators.  On top of all of this their emotions are super out of whack... .so No, I would not expect her to be "reasonable" for any length of time.  

My estimate is that she is co-morbid NPD/BPD to a ratio of 40/60

She has extremely high executive functioning, and planning skills! This is what makes her so dangerous, and believable with her lies! She has pulled the wool over many magistrates eyes. Like 5 of them! The high court is not about convincing arguments however, its about black and white facts on founding and opposing affidavits, argued between advocates.

Prognosticator: agreed low functioning
Emotions: Agreed seriously out of whack
Self and other destructive: Very high
World View: Extremely highly distorted. Bordering on hallucination

[MeandThee29]

Having lived with someone with BPD/NPD for 25 years, I have to tell you that reason isn't part of it. It's about saving face and feeling in control.

Mine continues to tell his relatives that he has "no idea" why our marriage broke up. Most of them buy it too. When I used to remind him of all the threats and intimidation and how that eroded my trust and confidence in him, he said that I should have learned to deal with that as a "good" wife. So back in my court. I'm why we broke up.

This is also why therapy generally isn't effective and why marriage counselling isn't recommended until they deal with the errors in thinking. It's a fundamental, core flaw in thinking that drives them.

Other than a miracle, the only way to survive is to keep them at arms length unless you have a really good therapist and a lot of resolve.

[Skip]

It's called "executive functioning skills".  They do not have this or have very small amounts of it.  To you, what may be a snap decision takes a lot of brain processing power and time for them.  They are limited in their judgment skills and in their ability to make decisions.  They are very poor planners and prognosticators. 

AnuDay is right.  And there is also, often, a resentment of authority (ties back to their parental relationships).

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Moselle, My BPDxW was found in contempt of court, too.  Agree w/those above.  I would add that she lacked the ability to see things from a perspective different than her own.  Part of my job involves looking at issues from different angles, in order to see both (or many) sides to a question, which is what helps me do my job.  Not so for her.  It was her way or the highway, which doesn't go over well with Judges.

LuckyJim