Should I stay or should I go?

[snowglobe]

Recap of a current situation; we are miles away from home on my uBPDh’s business trip. He is working roughly 10-14 hrs a day while I’m playing the house, and take our son around the town. His splitting is constantly altering between extreme verbal abuse and loving upbeat mood, but mostly rage. Our youngest s10 is on a trip with us, we were doing prior travellling and I missed him so much. In addition my mother’s routine tests showed possibility of oncology, so she is scheduled to undergo further testing this week. Thus making the childcare for 2 children (d14 and s10) very difficult. She is holding down the fort with our eldest, while I’m on the trip with our youngest. Prior to this business trip uBPDh’s rage/splitting has been 3/10, once we came here it’s about 8.5/10 with 10 being physically abusice or intimidating. Every night he comes home in a rotten mood, refusing to engage or converse, I try to engage him, offer dinner and watch some television. He’s never much of a talker, but being far away from home turned him into an angry mute. Our s10 tells me that “we should go home, because dad is constantly angry and doesn’t want us around”. Every night he’s been yelling “I’m sleeping alone tonight, uses swearing and cursing words, splits random insults”. I’m calmly walking out, not participating in his pull and tag war, wake up the next day, wake him up, as if nothing happened, wash and repeat.
Not working... .I’m exhausted, angry and confused as to why the splitting occurs. Ever since he picked up on this “game” this splitting hasn’t stopped. He looses and begins to rage at me, or the children. I need to inforce the boundary. I’m not saying that prior to picking up this game habit things were smoothe. However they haven’t been as bad as they are currently. I suspect that my uBPDh is suffering from bipolar in conjunction with BPD. Together with the gaming addiction his symptom manifestations making the environment for child rearing emotional desert.
My current dilemma, is actually following through what my son is asking of me, this taking the train home. It can be done quietly, while he is at work. Letting him know postfactum “you were busy, s10 was homesick, you seemed not to need us there for emotional support, we didn’t want to disturb you so we left, have fun”
Possible consequences: him flying into further spiral of rage and a.) threatening to leave me, b) actually leaving me
Scenario number two, me staying and enduring it, taking one for the team so to say.
Possible consequences: me snapping at some point, there is a limit to what human psyche can take when being poked with a hot iron rod.
Or him making the setuation so toxic that he can’t function in it on his own. Splitting and painting me so back that he sees no hope for our relationships or value in being with me.
Both of these scenarios require careful weighing, consideration and planning. If I stay I need him to stop playing this game in order to deescalade his outbursts. I’m asking those board experts to help me choose the correct one given the BPD and bipolar statistical probable outcomes.

[formflier]

You have a couple different issues here... .all very important.

I would STOP trying to fix his bad moods.  Offering dinner and conversation.  That is invalidating and "sending" the wrong push pull signal.  If he wants to be alone... .validate and agree that alone time could be good... .gently.

He has a nose, he knows where the kitchen is... let him solve basic life problems himself.

If he switches and wants to talk (non-abusively) I would do that.  You are looking for emotions to validate... .for problems that need to be solved, perhaps... .perhaps ask him what he is going to do or what he thinks... .YOU offer NO solutions.  It's about the emotions, not the problem to be solved.

All of that is a separate bucket.


What is going on at home with oncology and child care is a separate bucket. 

Can you give it a few days... focus on listening and letting him solve himself?  Be ready to protect yourself and your son if he goes off.  Protecting means "removing your ears" by going somewhere else.

Remember... deep deliberate breathing... .lots of it.

   

FF

[snowglobe]

@formflier, thank you for feedback. To recap you are suggesting that emotional aspect is overshadowing the factual aspect?. Perhaps? I’ve been looking at it from a completely different angle, that his moods needs to return to the baseline at some point, and what it would require of me to help him stabilize. Whereas the focus should have been focusing on my s10 needs and my own all the while. One of my weaknesses and fears is “what would happen if I don’t do anything to help him stabilize”. All my conversation starters always wind up in “next hot young girl” territory. I have to admit that the thought of being replaceable and replaced is unsettling. I try to keep in in check, because the moment I show the slightest sign of fear it gets exploited on a different level. My uBPDh is a very skilled psychologist and manipulator. This morning I was browsing last minute vacations for the new year. With no particular end point in mind, just looking for a hot deal. Shared it nonchalantly with him. He responded “great, you go. While you are at it find yourself a boyfriend, easier for me. Let him do everything for you, being basically your slave”. I said that I was looking for a family vacation and don’t need a boyfriend. Let alone slave. He replied that it was definetly his ideas of fun.
I will try to encorporate mindfulness into tonight’s interaction. I will not try to engage in a conversation with him, just carry on with our nightly retail. Perhaps I will stay a bit later in the city with my s10, allowing him unwind alone, would it help?

[ozmatoz]

I have to admit that the thought of being replaceable and replaced is unsettling.

I was told several times by my uBPDw that significant others are replaceable and that she couldn't wait to upgrade me.

It is a horribly hurtful thing to hear.  I know as FF says to take your ears elsewhere and not listen to it, but boy those devalue statements can really throw you off track.

I know when I heard them, my internal anger would boil but I would just have to bite my tongue.  I quickly learned anything I would say back to those statements would just get used against me. 

We can't ignore all of the nastiness just do the best we can.  Oddly enough I find that if I let some of the other "not as nasty" stuff get to me it doesn't leave room for the really hurtful comments.  My uBPDw goal is to keep me off balance, she does a good job so I let the lighter stuff to be the things that do it.

good luck.
-Oz

[snowglobe]

I was told several times by my uBPDw that significant others are replaceable and that she couldn't wait to upgrade me.

It is a horribly hurtful thing to hear.  I know as FF says to take your ears elsewhere and not listen to it, but boy those devalue statements can really throw you off track.

I know when I heard them, my internal anger would boil but I would just have to bite my tongue.  I quickly learned anything I would say back to those statements would just get used against me. 

We can't ignore all of the nastiness just do the best we can.  Oddly enough I find that if I let some of the other "not as nasty" stuff get to me it doesn't leave room for the really hurtful comments.  My uBPDw goal is to keep me off balance, she does a good job so I let the lighter stuff to be the things that do it.

good luck.
-Oz

Hi @ozmatoz, thank you for sharing your experience. I find that when I block the painful comments away, I also become numb towards his positive outreach to me. By staying with this person for half of my entire life, his black/white perspective on life has also rubbed off on me. Going against my serf preservation instinct is counterintuitive, because when he begins this “I’m gonna find myself a young model girlfriend, for one reason alone, because I can afford it” my self preservation wants to shout back, “then just do it, good riddance”. And walk away. I can’t seem to run away from him fast enough not to hear the bits of him trying to devalue my self worth. It’s about the emotion, I know, the matter of fact is, he comes home every night, he is doing his best to provide for his family, his kids are well taken care of, but all of that is financial aspect of life. He’s well aware of his shortcomings when it comes to emotional connection and social support. Yet he is able to rectify it and rationalize in his mind that he is making up by being a good provider for what he’s lacking as a partner and a parent. All of those facts aren’t the grounds for me staying with him. I appreciate his sense of humour, ironically values and morals (that have nothing to do with fidelity), his good looks and the Stage of idealization that I’m frankly addicted to. We built what we now have together, and my feelings for him were just a strong when we were struggling financially. Yet he doesn’t see it. His happiness is contingent on his success as a businessman. It’s an exhausting run in a hamsters wheel.

[ozmatoz]

One thing through this process that I have learned is that it is ok to still have feelings for the other person in the r/s.  What is not ok is to believe that your SO is the only source of your happiness.

I am finding that my uBPDw really wants and needs to live an enmeshed lifestyle.  The upsides, the love bombing and idealization do feel great and can be addicting.  However when you put too much of your happiness in their hands they ultimately take control of you.  It is when they start to have the bad feelings and splitting that they force you to feel what they feel.  As a non, this is very uncomfortable.  You want to feel happy, you know there is good things to be happy about yet you allow your spouses emotions to become your own.  This sets off a string of events that after time you are wondering what is happening, why are you stuck, you start to believe that you are the one with problems.

It sounds like uBPDh is fairly high functioning as is my uBPDw which only complicates things.  I find that I start to make excuses, well she is a good mom, she does make sure the kids get taken care of, she does most of the cooking... .  Except they are all done with unnecessary drama.  I do completely understand your feelings of just wanting to shout "then just do it!"  It would be an easy way out of our mess wouldn't it?

I'm not sure where you are located but if you can look for an app on your phone called Headspace I would recommend it.  Its only 5 minutes a day really of "meditation" but what I found is that even in those few minutes a day I forced myself to breathe.  Really breathe and it does help take the heart rate down a bit.

You're not alone.
-Oz

[formflier]

 My uBPDh is a  very skilled psychologist and manipulator.

 This morning I was browsing last minute vacations for the new year. With no particular end point in mind, just looking for a hot deal. Shared it nonchalantly with him.

  While you are at it find yourself a boyfriend, easier for me. Let him do everything for you, being basically your slave”.


I said that I was looking for a family vacation and don’t need a boyfriend. Let alone slave. He replied that it was definetly his ideas of fun.

And you are most definitely not a skilled manipulator... .nor should you try to become one.

You should also STOP PLACING YOURSELF IN HIS HANDS TO MANIPULATE   No... .just say no.  NOO

When you stop dancing, it will confuse him... .he will be forced to change.  :)o you see how there was likely a thought on your part that he said something worthy of a response... .you let him know you didn't agree... .you kinda "argued" with him or "pushed back"

That's what he wants... .and it's working for him... .so he has no incentive to change.  None.

"Blah blah blah... .get your self a pool boy with a thong and a mustache... .after all you hate my fu manchu... .I can tell by the way you look at me... .blah blah blah"

(Your current way of thinking)  "I don't like pool boys and would never get one... .you know mustaches don't do it for me... .I tell you all the time I want a soul patch... .I only look at you with love"

This is a fast ball for him to keep the argument going

(new way of thinking)  Stay relaxed... "I'm sad to hear those words.  I respect our relationship enough to ignore them."  Stay nonchalant.

blah blah blah blah (don't engage back)

"Hey babe... .can we talk about dinner plans.  Let's try that new fish dish you mentioned"

blah blah blah blah

"I'm not going to keep talking while hurtful words are between us.  I'm taking a break, back in 10 minutes"  (walk away)

Do you see the difference... .he gets NOTHING in response to his emotionally manipulative words... .NOTHING.

Let him be pissed... .let him be happy... .let him be whatever he wants.

FF weird analogy.  If you "don't like getting mud on you from rolling with the pigs, then stop rolling with them.  Your husband has been playing in the mud much longer that you.  He's good at it.  Just don't get in the mudpit."

Thoughts?

FF

[snowglobe]

@ozmaroz, you are spot on regarding his need of chaotic family life, that’s what feels familiar. There aren’t any more shoutings, silent treatments or “conversations to sort out our relationships”, I’ve tuned out the drama on my part 80% less. Occasionally I get a reaction, automatic like a knee jerk that signals that I’m still feeling the pain and his words reached it’s destination. Majority of time I just don’t validate the invalid. Thank you for the app idea, it would be a welcome relief from constantly feeling like a ping pong ball. In the moments of clarity, when he is at his baseline, he tells me that family is everything to him. And that he can’t even beggin to think of being without us. Yet, I don’t believe that either, our lives are composed of little memories shared, nighttime routines, meal sharing and overcoming the  hurdles of life. It’s hard to live day to day waiting for him to come up with new and creative way of hurting my feelings.

[snowglobe]

(new way of thinking)  Stay relaxed... "I'm sad to hear those words.  I respect our relationship enough to ignore them."  Stay nonchalant.

blah blah blah blah (don't engage back)

"Hey babe... .can we talk about dinner plans.  Let's try that new fish dish you mentioned"

blah blah blah blah

"I'm not going to keep talking while hurtful words are between us.  I'm taking a break, back in 10 minutes"  (walk away)

Do you see the difference... .he gets NOTHING in response to his emotionally manipulative words... .NOTHING.

Let him be pissed... .let him be happy... .let him be whatever he wants.

FF weird analogy.  If you "don't like getting mud on you from rolling with the pigs, then stop rolling with them.  Your husband has been playing in the mud much longer that you.  He's good at it.  Just don't get in the mudpit."

Thoughts?

FF

Wow, these are great lines which I will Utilize tonight. He will inevitably get to “next hot thing” topic, and I’m gonna tell him “hon, I’m so sad to hear these words. I respect our relationship enough not to ignore them. If he continues baiting me I will respond with redirection :”what do you think of xyz car model”? Or more practical, “do you think we will be home for the holidays” let’s make plans. If he will paint it black too, I will say that I won’t continue this conversation while he is using this type of language. I’m going upstairs for a quick 10 min shower, will be back soon

[formflier]

Wow, these are great lines which I will Utilize tonight. He will inevitably get to “next hot thing” topic, and I’m gonna tell him “hon, I’m so sad to hear these words. I respect our relationship enough not to ignore them. If he continues baiting me I will respond with redirection :”what do you think of xyz car model”? Or more practical, “do you think we will be home for the holidays” let’s make plans. If he will paint it black too, I will say that I won’t continue this conversation while he is using this type of language. I’m going upstairs for a quick 10 min shower, will be back soon

I see the thought you are going with, let me give you more background.

Dinner is something you guys likely normally do together.  It would be odd for him to reject it... especially if there is a dish you have been talking about and the offer is that you two TOGETHER try the new dish.  It's not just about dinner, it's about the relationship.

He might not want a new car... .it seems very tangential... plus... large sum of money... .lots of triggers there.

Holidays... .lots of triggers and expectations. 

Keep it simple... .dinner... .or breakfast... .or lunch... .  Or... if he like's coffee... .mention that you saw a new Colombian blend and since you know he likes Colombian ... .  Or with tea... .  Or with some other unique thing. 

Oh babe... .those pink pickled pigs feet you like are in the store... .I was going to bring some home to share?

See how there is a simplicity and subtle quality about togetherness... about the relationship... .but it's a very gentle suggestion.

Said another way... .very easy for him to say... yeah... let's do fish.  Most people aren't ready to agree to new car at first mention.

Give him easy out... .he won't take it the first few times.  He may start taking it.

FF

[snowglobe]

I see the thought you are going with, let me give you more background.

Dinner is something you guys likely normally do together.  It would be odd for him to reject it... especially if there is a dish you have been talking about and the offer is that you two TOGETHER try the new dish.  It's not just about dinner, it's about the relationship.

He might not want a new car... .it seems very tangential... plus... large sum of money... .lots of triggers there.

Holidays... .lots of triggers and expectations. 

Keep it simple... .dinner... .or breakfast... .or lunch... .  Or... if he like's coffee... .mention that you saw a new Colombian blend and since you know he likes Colombian ... .  Or with tea... .  Or with some other unique thing. 

Oh babe... .those pink pickled pigs feet you like are in the store... .I was going to bring some home to share?

See how there is a simplicity and subtle quality about togetherness... about the relationship... .but it's a very gentle suggestion.

Said another way... .very easy for him to say... yeah... let's do fish.  Most people aren't ready to agree to new car at first mention.

Give him easy out... .he won't take it the first few times.  He may start taking it.

FF

Got cha, not the next shiny thing or an airplane, as I would use with a child. Something simple, easy and relationship oriented. Wow, it’s an art of conversation. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for teaching these subtle things that matter

[formflier]

You are welcome.  These things are a starting point.  I'm less interested in exactly what you say, than you get the concepts.

Then, once you reduce the temp in your relationship, you can be a better observer and can then make adjustments based on your actual results and the theories you learn here.

Obviously, what "exactly" works in FF's r/s is going to be a bit different than in yours, even though the concept is the same.

Once you start down this road, consistency is key.  Especially when they "try to get you back" to the old dysfunction.

Eventually some tools get "stale" and you will learn new ones.  Those will get stale and you learn more new.  Then perhaps resurrect a tool from months ago, they will have forgotten.

Next thing you know, you are the one "running" the relationship and they are responding to you. 

You can do this!   

FF