How do you know when you’re wrong?

[mssalty]

I feel like I’ve lost all sense of when I’m right or wrong. My relationship allows no vent valve because all anger, upset, etc is either taken personally, or dismissed.  The more I’ve been immersed, the less I have a sense of when it’s okay to have any emotion. 

How do you know “it’s okay to be angry in this situation?”

[Enabler]

Hey mssalty, I think I know that feeling... .it's similar to the one where you feel guilt or in fact fear of asking perfectly reasonable questions like "Where are you going?"

I've found making an inventory on my iphone Notes page... .free writing and then re-reading. Try and cover all perspectives even the weirdest of scenarios. By the end of the exercise you should have some perspective as to whether or not you acted reasonably.

Part of the sense of abuse and control I was experiencing and consequently part of my personal liberation has been to re-calibrate what is and isn't reasonable emotional expression by me. My W attempt to suggest all emotional expression by me is abusive whilst her abusive behaviour is "righteous anger" or emotional detachment (also known as silent treatment).

Are you able to give us any example situations? Maybe have a go at the free writing here in an unconstructive way so we can help you get space and perspective to start re-calibrating and gain confidence in your healthy emotional expression. Anger is healthy FWIW.   

[SamwizeGamgee]

I'm right with you on that.  Without realizing it, I had gotten programmed to spend great effort to demonstrate that I wasn't mad / abusive / controlling, that I think I went to far.  I got to the point that I didn't feel angry, let go of everything that was hurting me.  One time a few months back, after my kids accused me of being angry, I caught myself as I started up my explanations of how I'm not angry, blah, blah, blah, but then I checked myself and I said "yes, I'm angry."  The look of shock was amazing on my kid's face.  I then could calmly explain why I was angry, and say that it was okay for me to have regular feelings, and explain that I'm trying to talk about my feelings more often.

Subtly at first I realized I let go of feelings in my marriage.  I'm at that point where I just don't feel for her. She can't control me, hurt me, or make me mad, but on the other side of the coin, she can't make me happy or fulfilled either.  That's not where I should end up in life, but, it is where I am right now. 

On that theme, and in response to your post, I know it can be hard to sort out our own feelings, especially after having been the target of mind reading, projection, and blame.  But, try to remember, your feelings are part of you.  It's still important how you deal with the feelings, but, having feelings should not be a privilege reserved for the mentally ill.

[Lucky Jim]

Subtly at first I realized I let go of feelings in my marriage.  I'm at that point where I just don't feel for her. She can't control me, hurt me, or make me mad, but on the other side of the coin, she can't make me happy or fulfilled either.

I can relate, Sam, because I reached a similar plateau in my marriage.  I practiced disengagement as a survival technique and got to the point where I refused to share anything personal with my BPDxW, because she would use my feelings against me.  At the point, it was less like a marriage and more like two people sharing the same roof.

LuckyJim

[Cat Familiar]

On that theme, and in response to your post, I know it can be hard to sort out our own feelings, especially after having been the target of mind reading, projection, and blame.  But, try to remember, your feelings are part of you.  It's still important how you deal with the feelings, but, having feelings should not be a privilege reserved for the mentally ill.

Great topic and responses! I've had a lifetime of being around pwBPD who all have been very emotionally expressive. And somehow their emotions were OK, even the rages and crazy acts, but somehow mine weren't.

So like others here, I hid my emotions and that's probably a lot easier for me than some people since in the Meyers Briggs category, I'm a Thinker rather than a Feeler--which makes me a really good poker player.    But is not so good for interpersonal relationships--and maybe that's one of the reasons why I've attracted two pwBPD husbands rather than nons.

What I've learned is that you have to give yourself permission to express your emotions. It's unlikely that a pwBPD will do that for you. Your emotions are frightening/threatening/competing to theirs, so it's not in their best interest to want to know what you are feeling.

[Cat Familiar]

To get back to your initial question of knowing whether you're right or wrong, try imagining the situation from a completely different perspective. Instead of the characters being you and your SO, imagine TV characters acting out your respective roles. Or imagine it's your friend telling you about their relationship. With some distance, you will be able to see things more clearly.

I understand because in the midst of FOG, I begin thinking that I should be far more accepting of behaviors that were clearly unacceptable in my first marriage.

[slcguy]

I think your question on how to know if you're wrong is a really good one because often we are wrong and we need to acknowledge that.  The reaction that I get when I am wrong is way out of proportion to what I did so I admit that I was wrong but don't assume that I deserved the response that I got.  It is still hard not to lash back when this happens but lashing back does not help.  Try to practice JADE and validate part of what she is saying.  Makes things a little better but not a lot.  I thought this comment

Subtly at first I realized I let go of feelings in my marriage.  I'm at that point where I just don't feel for her. She can't control me, hurt me, or make me mad, but on the other side of the coin, she can't make me happy or fulfilled either.

was interesting.  I am at a similar point and find myself adopting behaviors that I do not like.  Mainly, I shut up around her.  I am not trying to give her the silent treatment.  Really.  I examined if I am being passive aggressive and withholding communication as a form of punishment and I don't think so.  I think I am just on my guard because anything I say can be turned into something completely different.  She does not work outside the home (though I wish she would), is estranged from all of her relatives, can't stand my relatives and is quite isolated.  She says that I am the only one she talks to and I don't talk.  Don't know how to handle this.  I am thinking of retiring (I am 68) and wonder how I will stand it.