How the hell can i validate a demand/threat/abuse?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Just vondering...

How the hell can i validate a demand/threat/abuse?

Nothing new really from my BPDex... .

But i'm trying to... .Just NOT Take part in
This stubit power/control game!

We have 4 kids... .
And i've been doing my best... for 2 years now.

This is just really draining... .

[Bushido]

Just vondering...

How the hell can i validate a demand/threat/abuse?

Nothing new really from my BPDex... .

But i'm trying to... .Just NOT Take part in
This stubit power/control game!

We have 4 kids... .
And i've been doing my best... for 2 years now.

This is just really draining... .

[GaGrl]

Validation is best used to calm a situation in which a laBOR is triggered and could escalate. If you are experiencing verbal attacks and abuse, validation may not be the best tool.

What is your specific communication methods? Are you married and do-parenting or divorced and co-parenting? It makes a difference in how you choose to communicate.

[Bushido]

Long story short... .
Were together for 18 years
4kids... .D12, D9, B8 and D8
Now divorced... .Well... .In progress that is
You know... .
Court and all that
Seperated for 2 years ... .
And she lives 9 hours away with D9 ,D8 and the replacement.

And all communication are very one sided...
... .I just want my peace... .
And she does everything to pick a fight.

[sweetheart]

Hi Bushido,

Can you give some examples of the things that your STBEX is doing so we can suoport you better with more targeted advice?

[Panda39]

Hi Bushido,

What method do you use to communicate with your stbxw?  Phone, Text, Email?

Panda39

[Bushido]

What method do you use to communicate with your stbxw?  Phone, Text, Email?
Panda39

Nowa days it's just texting...
... And i use it very limited... .Just the "need to say stuff"
 I can't talk to this person anymore... .
I tried... .For a long time after she left...
... But it just didn't go anyware.
So i just went NC... And blocked her everywere...

[Bushido]

Hi Bushido,

Can you give some examples of the things that your STBEX is doing so we can suoport you better with more targeted advice?

I guess i could just translate these RAGEtexts to get a feedback from you...

[Bushido]

" Do not give me that attitude man. When children have parents living in two places in the country, they sometimes miss school to meet their parents and sisters. D12 and B8 are often "licensed" from school just to hang home with you and I do not know better than having taken into account your needs the day you asked to have the girls a bit longer. Don’t even try this nonsense with me. They are coming with me east for a few days."

" I'm not even going to discuss how the situation is with your children regarding their schooling. I am in contact with them at school and I will enjoy and personally talk to them about this absence and teach them at home the time they are with me. They will probably both learning more here with me than they do nowadays with you... Since they do not have learning materials when in school, no swimwear or sportswear, are too late or they do not show up at all. Do not attend class anniversaries or classmeets. All in all, you're in trouble. I have control over these children just as you and your superiority will not be in the way when I want to meet my children when I wish. "

[Bushido]

As good as i could ... .using google translate + fixing it a bit... .So it makes sens...

But you know... .Reading it like this w/o context...
... .I must be one hell of an abuser!

[ForeverDad]

She has a lot of entitlement and feels free to attack and disparage your parenting, as did my ex.  Don't let her Guilt, Intimidate or Obligate you into appeasing her.  Yes, she won't listen to you so reasoning with her doesn't work.  That is all what we too have experienced.

I recall when I first was divorcing and we were ordered to Mediation as the first step in a two year divorce process.  She felt her motherhood entitled her to ignore her own family history.

When we met the mediator together, she insisted "her" son belonged with her, claiming it was the custom in her native land (Spanish speaking island).  Well, actually she wasn't even born there, just raised there part of her childhood.  Well, the mediator noticed how she always said "my" and not "our".  Guess what?  In her family there were both boys and girls.  The boys did live with their father and the girls did live with their mother.  So according to her own family history then she should have seen that our son belonged with me, the father, but of course she never saw it that way.

She always referred to our son as "her" son, and so I expressed my concern about that to the mediator.  He explained to her that our son was both his and hers.  She repeated a couple times "her", claiming it was a cultural way of talking, and the mediator said, Not in the USA.  He stopped the session then and said not to come back for the other two sessions unless we could surmount this impasse.  As I left I heard, This woman has issues.  There were no more sessions.

My stbxW often spoke how her brothers were sent to live with their dad but she and her sister lived with her mother and evil abuser stepfather.  She never got to know her own brothers very well.  (Strangely, when my stbxW was demanding she she keep "her" son with her all the time, her lawyer suggested it was her culture.  I told him that her brothers lived with her dad and so according to that culture, our son should live with ME.  He got the point.)

What doesn't work is JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain).  People with BPD see too much emotional baggage with the other person to really listen.  That's why a good therapist makes sure not to be perceived as emotionally connected to the patient.  The paperback I Hate You! Don't Leave me! stated her therapist never once touched her, not even a handshake.  Well, until he pronounced her more or less recovered, then he let her hug him at their last session.

[sweetheart]

Hi Bushido,

Thanks for the examples.
Are the older children just yours from a previous relationship? I only ask as that’s how her texts read.
Are her replies in actual response to a real issue you had with the children missing school?

If you really have to respond keep your response super brief and maybe follow a SET format. And only respond one time because from the texts it looks like she is repeating the same issues just in different ways and feels criticised and blames by you. You could validate those feelings with your SET.

Keeping your contact to an absolute minimum response for yours and your children’s well-being is key. How often do you have the younger children?

[Panda39]

Keeping your contact to an absolute minimum response for yours and your children’s well-being is key.

I agree.  Have you considered communicating via email instead of text messaging?  With email you choose when you look at messages from her, it slows down the back & forth and gives you time to think about your response, or even if you respond (if it's nonsense you don't have to respond), it also is a way to document these interactions.  The documentation could be helpful if you need to go back to court.

A good communication style when emailing is BIFF (Brief, Informative, Firm, Friendly) remember these emails might be used in court so always keep in mind that at some point someone else could be reading them.

In your examples she is bullying, my SO's uBPDxw would do that too, and with that underlying message "you are a bad dad"... .ignore this stuff it's FOG.

From your examples it sounds like she might be keeping the kids out of school, if so start documenting their school attendance or lack there of, it could be helpful in court.  The court looks at what is in the best interest of the child, missing a lot of school for no reason is not in their best interest.

Don't forget to take care of yourself, take a break from this stuff.  You can't take care of your kids if your are worn down.  Go do something fun.

Take Care,
Panda39

[ForeverDad]

In your examples she is bullying, my SO's uBPDxw would do that too, and with that underlying message "you are a bad dad"... .ignore this stuff it's FOG.

From your examples it sounds like she might be keeping the kids out of school, if so start documenting their school attendance or lack there of, it could be helpful in court.  The court looks at what is in the best interest of the child, missing a lot of school for no reason is not in their best interest.

For the first several years the court and lawyers studiously avoided saying anything on record about the parents.  Evidently that's a pattern in many cases, the professionals expect the conflict to reduce once the marriage is over and the parent Move On in their lives.  As you know from having to come to this site, our spouses didn't follow the pattern of reasonably normal parents.

Our last time in court, over 5 years after the final decree, we had a full two days for documenting our respective cases.  I already had custody but was still stuck with equal time.  Ex was still entitled and so I was back seeking majority time again.  I presented evidence of her actions toward me and the court decision stated she was "disparaging" me even in our son's presence.  The word "disparagement" or a form of it appeared at least six times in the magistrate's decision, clearly the court was peeved.  Yet that is not what gained me majority time.  The magistrate gave me majority time during the school year only because (1) the teachers reported conflict she caused on an overnight school field trip and (2) she had nearly 20 school tardies while I only had a few.

My point is that though the court criticized her for disparaging me numerous times, it evidently paid more attention to the school aspect.  The only change ordered was that our equal time was modified for me to get majority time only during the school year.  So don't think your ex's entitled view toward school doesn't matter.

[livednlearned]

" Do not give me that attitude man. When children have parents living in two places in the country, they sometimes miss school to meet their parents and sisters. D12 and B8 are often "licensed" from school just to hang home with you and I do not know better than having taken into account your needs the day you asked to have the girls a bit longer. Don’t even try this nonsense with me. They are coming with me east for a few days."

" I'm not even going to discuss how the situation is with your children regarding their schooling. I am in contact with them at school and I will enjoy and personally talk to them about this absence and teach them at home the time they are with me. They will probably both learning more here with me than they do nowadays with you... Since they do not have learning materials when in school, no swimwear or sportswear, are too late or they do not show up at all. Do not attend class anniversaries or classmeets. All in all, you're in trouble. I have control over these children just as you and your superiority will not be in the way when I want to meet my children when I wish. "

What are the communications that led to these responses?

How did you respond?

[Bushido]

What are the communications that led to these responses?

How did you respond?

I'm working on translating the dialog for you... .
... .So you can evaluate. . and give me feedback.
It's not very long since i say only what needs to be said... .

[Skip]

" Do not give me that attitude man. When children have parents living in two places in the country, they sometimes miss school to meet their parents and sisters. D12 and B8 are often "licensed" from school just to hang home with you and I do not know better than having taken into account your needs the day you asked to have the girls a bit longer. Don’t even try this nonsense with me. They are coming with me east for a few days."

" I'm not even going to discuss how the situation is with your children regarding their schooling. I am in contact with them at school and I will enjoy and personally talk to them about this absence and teach them at home the time they are with me. They will probably both learning more here with me than they do nowadays with you... Since they do not have learning materials when in school, no swimwear or sportswear, are too late or they do not show up at all. Do not attend class anniversaries or classmeets. All in all, you're in trouble. I have control over these children just as you and your superiority will not be in the way when I want to meet my children when I wish. "[/i][

So lets translate this into zero drama speak. 

" I want to take the children out of school abd back east for 5 days. I know you don't agree. You have taken them out of school too. Let's be fair."

If this was the note, how would you respond?

[Bushido]

here goes... .  ME and msBPD

Did not get an answer, I booked them on my flight east on January 24th

You know they are in school on the  24.25 and 26, so it goes without saying that they are not going east at that time.

Do not give me that attitude man. When children have parents living in two places in the country, they sometimes miss school to meet their parents and sisters. D12 and B8 are often "licensed" from school just to hang home with you and I do not know better than having taken into account your needs the day you asked to have the girls a bit longer. Don’t even try this nonsense with me. They are coming with me east for a few days.

I'm not even going to discuss how the situation is with your children regarding their schooling. I am in contact with them at school and I will enjoy and personally talk to them about this absence and teach them at home the time they are with me. They will probably both learning more here with me than they do nowadays with you... Since they do not have learning materials when in school, no swimwear or sportswear, are too late or they do not show up at all. Do not attend class anniversaries or classmeets. All in all, you're in trouble. I have control over these children just as you and your superiority will not be in the way when I want to meet my children when I wish.
I have ordered a flight for them. They have not come to me for 3 months. You do not have the right to forbid me to get them. Do not try it.

No ... .They are not going anywhere ...
The school is just started ...
The dance practice starts ì next week ...
B8 is going to start in football ...
And there's nobody to stoping you from talking to the school, social service, child protection ... .Yeah ... .or the police.
Your choice ...

Yes ... .and then they will be on winterbreak mid-February so you can have them for a long weekend.
Fyi ... Then they were with you all christmas...
... .and it's just  the 8th of January

Do you know x(me the abusive dimwitt) that you have no right to do this. I've never prevented you from getting your kids when you've been looking for it. This is below the belt tactic that no one uses. I also take control of the children and let them know at school in school just like you.


And you may ask a D9 to call me.
... Was trying to call her earlier.

She's not home.

I have never understood the power you think you have. Whether it concerns the children or the apartment. There are two children with you, it does not mean you have them more than me, just as I do not have the girls more than you. I can not forbid you to get them, though, of course, I can tell you that some time is better than others. By getting them east at the end of January, I can go with them for the flight. I sent you a message, got no response so I booked a flight. This is not something you have the authority to ban as if you are some judge.

I see ... .hmm ... explains why she does not answer the phone ...
Just tel D9 to call me when she gets home...

One more thing... Regarding the meeting?
(Meeting at the school that the kids that live with me are in )
Then let's be clear that if you're going to go to make the same seen like at the meetings with social service at school a year ago ... .
... .Then I'll walk out.
I do not have to be surrounded by professionals to listen to the crapp you have to say about me.
I can simply read it from your texts.

Stop pretending to be a child, you're a 35 year old man!

[Skip]

Bushido, seems like a lot of fight on both sides. 

How is the visitation set up right now?

[Bushido]

Bushido, seems like a lot of fight on both sides. 

How is the visitation set up right now?

well... .perhaps the calmness is lost in the translation ... .

and like Richard Grannon says... .easy test... .if someone is NPD/BPD... .just say "no"
A NT person doesnt just RAGE on you.

[Bushido]

So lets translate this into zero drama speak.  

" I want to take the children out of school abd back east for 5 days. I know you don't agree. You have taken them out of school too. Let's be fair."

If this was the note, how would you respond?

   well... .if the sky turned green and water went dry... .
i would be stunned... .

and just note that many things she says are plain gaslighting... .what you read from her side is just how she feels fit to present the reality.

just like the Matrix... .a system designed to keep you from learning the truth... .

[Skip]

My point is that if you want to get past the drama (which you do), then translate notes like this to read " I want to take the children out of school abd back east for 5 days. I know you don't agree. You have taken them out of school too. Let's be fair."

My question to you is, what is a reasonable response to that request.

You can fight with her till the kids are 18 or you can step out of the emotional drama triangle and just deal with her transitionally. Most likely, after some time and getting reasonableness from you, she will improve a bit. She says all that stuff because she knows it goes right to your adrenaline. If it didn't, there would be no point.

So my question was, what is the visitation arrangement?

[Bushido]

. Most likely, after some time and getting reasonableness from you, she will improve a bit. She says all that stuff because she knows it goes right to your adrenaline. If it didn't, there would be no point.

So my question was, what is the visitation arrangement?

that´s the thing... .my adrenaline doesn´t fire up when she´s like that... .and there is no point but she still does it.
she just can´t step out of this bully/abuse pattern.

and there is no arrangement ... .other then the one from social service... .and she denied it...
still ones a month (one weekend) all of them are with her or me.

the divorce settlement is on it´s way to court... .cos she want´s more... .and didn´t pay her depts.

[Bushido]

You can fight with her till the kids are 18 ... .

i don´t... .
i just hold the line... .put boundrys... .and she pushes them or breaks entirely.

[Bushido]

My question to you is, what is a reasonable response to that request.
So my question was, what is the visitation arrangement?

And even tho i am doing everything as emotionless as it can be...
... .i really thank you for pointing this out.
I just... .Have tried everything... .It was exhausting and pointless.
She just has to hit the wall ... .and i just have to stay away.
Only when i'm not there... .I can't be blamed.
I hope atleast... .But only time will tell.

[livednlearned]

and there is no arrangement ... .other then the one from social service... .and she denied it...
still ones a month (one weekend) all of them are with her or me.

the divorce settlement is on it´s way to court... .cos she want´s more... .and didn´t pay her depts.

There is no temporary court order in place?

How did it come to pass that two of the kids are with her, and two are with you?

[Bushido]

There is no temporary court order in place?

How did it come to pass that two of the kids are with her, and two are with you?

It's a long story i guess... .
And i actually dont remamber it so well... .
That time period ... .Is just kind of a haze...
My lawyer asked me the other day who (me or BPDex) filled out
Some paper regarding the financial agreement...
... .And i just could't remamber.
I had to recognize the writing to answer it.

[Bushido]

The first 12 months after BPDex left... .
... .I was under severe stress, keeping my self
From bankrupsy and doing everything right for the kids.
Not an easy thing in the destruction i was left in.
I actually almost had a breakdown on the 15th month.
Imune system just crashed. . and i had to take a month from work... .
Thinking back... .I actually am surprised that i didn't have a complete nervus breakdown.

[Skip]

So you are legally separated.

That usually includes some agreement about the children... .who gets to see who and when.

Do you have that?  Or do you have an informal agreement?

And what was the thinking that 2 kids live with you and 2 with her - does that rotate?  Who gets to see who and when.

[Turkish]

What's the school attendance policy?

A year ago,  I received a truancy letter from the school district (the kids are registered and attend out of my home... .their mom has moved 4 times in 4 years). The legalese was a bit threatening.  I sent it to their mom and asked her to take care of it.  One sick day she didn't call in,  and a three day trip to Legoland resulted in 4 unexcused absences... .on her time.  

I didn't make it about me,  but threw the ball into her court and let The System be "the bad guy." It wasn't my job to tell the school why the kids were absent on her time.  She told me today that she wants to take the kids to Florida (we're in California). I reminded her about the truancy letter and school policy regarding absences.  She subtly changed course and started checking airline tickets based upon the school's break schedule (trimester, then Spring) or this summer.  I removed myself from the possible conflict to step out of the drama (her spontaneity).