Hi all,

I'm looking for some advice around how to deal with the glacial pace divorce process I am currently experiencing. Firstly, for those who don't know I do not want a divorce and do not think it's in the best interests of any member of our family. We have had 2x legal mediation sessions, first session early Oct17 her agenda was to get me out the house, I contested her reasoning and it was apparent it was poorly thought out and she hadn't thought about the practicalities so I refused and we set about agreeing rules of engagement. We agreed to put the house on the market mid Nov17. Second session early Nov17 she agreed after discussion that Mid Nov17 was not an ideal time to sell the house but she drew up wording for Decree Nisi and was told to make the application. I confirmed I would not contest based on not wanting to delay, impede or waste unnecessary amounts of money on legal fees (she can do what she wants to do)... .but made it clear that I did not agree with her reasoning and accusations of extensive emotional and verbal abuse over our 17yr marriage. We agree to market the family home in Jan/Feb18 once I had completed some repair work to the house.

Early Dec17 she finds a house she likes (first one she had seen) and decides that she wants to change the agreed plan to market house in mid Dec17. I validated but said no, this is not what we have agreed. She follows up the following day with a formal letter stating that she wanted to tell the children on Sat 6th Jan and put the house on the market the week after i.e. this week. The rest of the email was accusations of breach of agreement, more accusations of abuse and general ranting. I completely ignored the email and did not respond to it.

Sat 6th Jan... .she went to the horse races with friends for the day... .

Periodically over the holidays she has asked how I'm getting on with financial statements we need to do. She has made a rough start at her own but I think she wants me to rescue her on that by picking it up and running with the whole thing. I am reluctant to assist her here, this is her choice and she needs to do the heavy lifting. I am making progress as agreed on the house repairs.

Last night she asks to sit down to discuss kids and the house again stating that "we can't continue on like this forever". I validated and said that I agreed that we can't continue on with "this" forever and that's not what I wanted, and that a divorce was never something I wanted and I wanted to sort the relationship out. I stopped short of stating it was something she wanted as thought that was blaming.

Issues:
- I fear asking what she is doing with regards to the decree nisi. I have not received notification that she has applied for it, nor has she informed me that she has. I see this as key commitment to the divorce and long term separation rather than an emotional reaction. I'm reluctant to market the house unless I have seen evidence this has been applied for. If I ask might that be an incentive for her to action.
- Her commitment to the process is questionable and chaotic, she makes statements and send aggressive emails and then ditches them in preference to going to the horse races.
- She has not done anything with respects to organising the house for sale, there is painting and decorating she is perfectly capable of doing yet she has not. In my experience, when she wants something to happen she is proactive, when she doesn't she procrastinates or is passive aggressive.
- There is evidence of her questioning her decision.
- Since I am no longer a reactive Non her behaviour is becoming more and more and more obvious. I am no longer rescuing either which is highlighting her chaotic behaviour with the kids and other situations she creates.
- Sounds odd but she still acts/behaves as though I am in the picture long term e.g. photo calendar for her parents and sister, she includes pictures of me throughout the calendar even on her parents and sisters version... .now why would her parents and sister want pictures of me on their kitchen wall throughout the year... .the person who apparently abused their daughter/sister for 17yrs? She keeps talking about medium term plans for the house, kids bedroom, holidays, wanting a dog. She does nothing to manage the kids expectations even though they have not been informed about the divorce or likelihood they will be moving from the family home.

At what point do I stop dancing and pull the BS card on the divorce threats? I am happy to play along, validate where I can whilst she is seeing a therapist (not BPD specialist or DBT, but there's hope whilst she's seeing her, the T manages to open her up to reveal childhood wounds). I'm stuck trying to work out what the most likely outcome is from saying "I love you, I don't want this divorce and I'm questioning your conviction in the decision to divorce. This is a serious decision which has huge long term ramifications. Although you verbalise your intent I do not see them in your actions in a consistent convicted manner taking personal responsibility to achieve it." Do I just start by questioning why we did not sit down with the girls last weekend as she had stipulated?

Any advice is helpful. thanks

Legal mediation is where you both sit down with the same lawyer and try and iron things out amicably. There's a set structure and you work through each bit and come to a compromise about each bit. Her narrative is "I am being forced to get a divorce because my husband (Enabler) is abusive towards me and the kids, I am a good Christian and God is on my side and will guide me through and provide. I would like the divorce to be as amicable as possible because I am a reasonable person that behaves impeccably... .I am faultless". At the end of the process you draw up agreement, sign and rubber stamp with courts as "the agreement".

I am playing ball with this as I believe this will produce the best outcome for me and the my access to the kids. I am HUGELY conscious of parental alienation and potential for messy divorce should a lawyer get in her grips, especially once she plays abuse victim card.

We're in the UK

Thanks FF,

So I guess given the process we're going on that would mean doing all the financials together then getting to the point of putting the house on the market and saying "hey, what's happening to the decree nisi?". The issue is that these things can run in parallel and bits she hasn't done can be picked up and completed along the way. Telling the kids is a huge milestone for her I suspect. They will be devastated as will I having to be involved in telling them. I think she wants me to validate what she's doing and how she's feeling by enabling the divorce by being proactive. This goes against all rational thought to actually drive your whole family fun bus off the cliff to validate a feeling of abuse that was fictitious in the first place!

I agree with FF. Take the necessary steps to get the house fixed up and your financial future figured out.

Then do no more.

We all know how chaotic a disordered person's thinking is and how they can flit from one thing to another. If you don't want a divorce, why would you help her in this direction? Without your help she might very well abandon the idea because it's too much work.

So... in a couple sentences.

I am participating in the collaborative divorce process with my wife because... .


Please tell me about YOUR reasons... .

FF

Oh... .also about 10th of the cost

A cautionary note: I began a collaborative process with my ex-husband only to have him find the meanest pit bull divorce attorney in town who sent me a petition for full spousal support as well as title to the property I bought with an inheritance.

PwBPD can turn on a dime when they think their financial interests are at stake.

I hear you Cat, I have been speaking to other people who went all the way through this process only for it to be ripped up by some lawyer promising £££££. However, if you start a fire with petrol, you'll never know if you could have done it with a few twigs (terrible analogy I know). The cost of trying is meaningless and time is my friend.

Fundamentally my wife is not a nasty person, she is an emotional person who does bad things and says odd things in emotional situations. She ultimately wants to be seen as good.

I have a different take on the lazy bit. My W apparent laziness comes in 3 distinct forms:
- "it is not important to me"
- "I know it's important to you and I am angry with you so I will intentionally not do it or do it badly"
- "I like chaos and I like being the victim, I feel comfortable here and by doing xyz it will reduce chaos/victim, so I shall not do that"

I actually think this comes under 1&3 as well as wanting to be "good" and being conflicted as to whether this is "good".

OK... I see you are trying to "thread the needle".  I've attempted and sometimes done it... .

Sort of a keep your enemies closer so you can keep an eye on them.

At least that I what I'm hearing... .am I getting that right?

What I don't see is when you "turn the steering wheel" and start driving down the marriage road.  Can you fill in some detail there?

I get it, it won't be a precise plan.

What I see is she has invited you to drive down the road to divorce and you have at least hopped in the car with her... .there is tacit agreement and certainly a "mixed message" if the message you want her to hear is "I want to be married"

FF

Listen... .I'm not against your plan at all.  You hear me many times tell people to be pragmatic... .to be in the moment and all of that.

As long as you are clear in your mind that you are looking for an opening and that you want to be wise about that opening.

I have two schools of thought that some accuse me of being "forked tongue"... .I claim I'm not.

Remember background... .naval aviator and grew up in Appalachia... .(the hold my beer and watch this jokes are funny... .because they are accurate... .sometimes you just have to try some crazy sh$t).

Over and over on here you see me making plans and advising people on plans.  The one thing I can assure you is that whatever you plan to do... .that is not going to happen.

The plan is not what you are going to do, it is the measuring stick you will use to "adjust" things while someone is "holding your beer" and you are doing what you planned.

(clarity:  two schools of thought, plan things out and "be in the moment"  They do go together.

In over 20 years... .the aircraft carrier was never where it said it would be... .seriously... .never.   So, there is a bit of a mindset that goes with taking off and not exactly knowing where you will land... .of if you will get wet... .but a swagger and confidence that somehow you will work something out.

You are going to need that attitude... .but keep it private.  Plus... (shhhh... don't tell anyone)... .I really don't want any more guys with big mustaches and attitudes cutting in on that harem that I have... .errrr... .I mean ... .that my wife thinks I have.  

Ok... easy stuff first.

1.  No more tell all emails... .stop that.  :)ivorce or otherwise.  
2.  Keep fixing the house... .but stop talking about the reasons.
3.  I don't understand the financials, but get yourself organized.  Stop providing solutions for her.  She can organize too... .or she can choose not to... .or she can hire a CPA.  I likely need to understand this better... .
4.  Talk in detail with your T about what you will tell you kids if your wife goes forward.
5.  Talk in detail with your T about what you can do to "wind the clock" for a few months.


If you wife is participating in some kind of T... .let that sort itself out... .live your own life.  Focus on your kids... .

Last:  I want you to get a book  and read it secretly.  

Love must be tough by James Dobson.  

https://www.amazon.com/Love-Must-Be-Tough-Marriages/dp/141431745X

I'm not proselytizing you.  There is a dysfunctional religious thing going on in your marriage.  It's likely contributed to your "distaste" for Christianity (is there a better word we can agree on?)   Completely understandable that you would be less than attracted to a religion of grace and peace when your primary exposure to it is... .(what you have gotten).

That being said... .Dobson does pretty good on "tough love" and Christianity.  Be aware this is not a book "about" BPD, but there are principles in the book about human attraction that I want you to consider.  There are many examples of succinctly stating your position on the relationship and "being unavailable" to your partner... . Plenty of examples about establishing respect.

I have this notion that at the right time an approach similar to this book might work to "turn the wheel".  

Thoughts?

FF

Argggg pesky legal mediation guy keeps sending chasing emails regarding the financial disclosure information W and I are supposed to be doing together. I really don't need anyone pushing the D agenda. I know it is what it is but this guy has no legitimate reason for chasing as there's no time constraints on the process. It acts a reminder to her to refocus on the D process rather than any other potential path.

Rant over

FF, I didn't choose to go down the divorce route, she started the ball rolling and my guess is she expected the process to take her with the flow... .which it kinda is. I verbalised since Mar17 that I was against divorce, but what am I to do? Restrain her?... .control her?

Emailed the guy back including W and said, "We're working through it at our own pace and have had some distractions including Christmas, we'll be in touch". She might be grateful, she might be angry but felt like I was taking some control there without spelling it out "back off". Tried to call the guy as well but no answer.

FF, you constantly astound me with you ability to give good advice whilst under fire, but then I guess that's because you spent most of your career looking down at the map whilst the dude in front of you was engaging the baddies.

At no single point have I EVER condoned complicit or otherwise driving the family fun bus towards the cliff. I have never removed my wedding band in anger, I have never left for a night other than under duress. The closest I have ever been to agreeing with divorce was:

"I do not want a divorce. I do not think this is the right thing for anyone in our family. However, I understand it is futile to stand in your way if this is something you choose to do, however, I will not be assisting you."

The (my) truth is shaming towards her and invalidates the fantasy of being a victim she has created.

That's certainly turning the wheel towards the oncoming fire... .

I'm struggling to tally how 'that' reduces emotional dysregulation nor how it doesn't add fuel to her narrative of "Enabler is abusive"... .and her definition of "abuse" is pretty flexible including asking "do you mind if I ask where you're going tonight?".