I screwed up...

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Totally screwed up today. We found out yesterday that uBPDh Mom was taken to the hospital for an assumed stroke. H handled it so well. Then today happened. They determined that she has some growths on her brain so they have to do a brain biopsy. The dr told her that it is rare that people die but it does happen. H told me that there is a 60% survival rate. Idk where he got this number.
All day, I could tell he was dysregulating. I validated when I could and I stayed silent the rest of the time.
Until I didn’t.
We were on the phone and he started in on how he’s going to kill me and my mom if his mom dies when he is 1000 miles away bc it’s all my fault. I hung up on him.
Immediately he went into name calling and telling me that I never support him when he needs me and how he will never forgive me for leaving him all alone when he might be losing his mother.
I felt like I needed to hang up, but it didn’t handle it well. I didn’t tell him that I was hanging up bc what he said hurt me and that I wanted to talk calmly. Nope. I just hung up. And I hate it when he hangs up on me. I don’t know why I did it and I ffeel like there were extenuating circumstances and maybe I should have just ignored what he said and stayed on the phone.
The evening went to sh$t after that.
He has now told me that I am mentally ill and the only way that he will come home is if I check myself into a facility. This is crazy making. I feel bad that I hung up but the punishment seems so severe.
This is not my life. This is not the life that I want for me and my kids. I have such deep hate for my husband right now that I think I probably did push him today when I should have been supportive.
I am feeling really bad.

[5xFive]

Totally screwed up today. We found out yesterday that uBPDh Mom was taken to the hospital for an assumed stroke. H handled it so well. Then today happened. They determined that she has some growths on her brain so they have to do a brain biopsy. The dr told her that it is rare that people die but it does happen. H told me that there is a 60% survival rate. Idk where he got this number.
All day, I could tell he was dysregulating. I validated when I could and I stayed silent the rest of the time.
Until I didn’t.
We were on the phone and he started in on how he’s going to kill me and my mom if his mom dies when he is 1000 miles away bc it’s all my fault. I hung up on him.
Immediately he went into name calling and telling me that I never support him when he needs me and how he will never forgive me for leaving him all alone when he might be losing his mother.
I felt like I needed to hang up, but it didn’t handle it well. I didn’t tell him that I was hanging up bc what he said hurt me and that I wanted to talk calmly. Nope. I just hung up. And I hate it when he hangs up on me. I don’t know why I did it and I ffeel like there were extenuating circumstances and maybe I should have just ignored what he said and stayed on the phone.
The evening went to sh$t after that.
He has now told me that I am mentally ill and the only way that he will come home is if I check myself into a facility. This is crazy making. I feel bad that I hung up but the punishment seems so severe.
This is not my life. This is not the life that I want for me and my kids. I have such deep hate for my husband right now that I think I probably did push him today when I should have been supportive.
I am feeling really bad.

[Cat Familiar]

Well, you may feel  like you screwed up but he was threatening to kill you and your mother? So you hung up. Seems like a perfectly OK response to me. At that point, I don't think you owed him an explanation.

And as formflier says, you took your ears elsewhere for a moment... .until you reengaged.

And after issuing death threats, he now tells you that you're the mentally ill one.

I don't think it's humanly possible to be "supportive" after someone has threatened to kill you. This is NOT OK.

   

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear 5X-

I am SO sorry that you were made to feel that you screwed up when you disengaged when your and your mom's lives were threatened.  I agree with Cat on this one!

I'm sorry I don't know your history and whether these threats are a pattern with your H, but they need to either stop or be reported if your safety is in jeopardy.  His mother's illness is no excuse to issue threats against you.  There is NEVER an excuse to issue such threats.

Can you explain the context of his being "1000 miles away"?  Does he travel for work?  Perhaps during this difficult time, if he does travel for work, he can adjust his work responsibilities to stick closer to where his mom is, so he can maintain face to face contact with the medical team.

Someone needs to explain to your H that you are NOT a member of the medical team treating his M, you did NOT create his M's illness; you are NOT GOD; and despite the fact that you want nothing more than for your MIL to achieve full recovery, your powers are limited to love and prayer.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[formflier]

Some of your probably remember the time about when I "boundaried" my Mom.

Think southern bell polite woman (piano professor for over 40 years).  Wonderful lady.  It is rare to hear a cuss word come from her.  However, the times I can remember... .it seemed appropriate.

So, few years ago my wife was either purposefully screwing up some plans for others (regarding piano practice for our children, which obviously my Mom is "invested" in)... .or ... .just having a bad day.

Well... .I'm standing outside our home talking to Mom when a text comes in that clarifies that plans for the day are screwed up and my Mom is in an embarrassing position with other piano teachers, since one of our children would be really late for a lesson.

Next thing i know, my Mom's mouth sounded like a Sailors mouth and my feet magically transported me inside my house.  

I calmed fairly quickly, my Mom got in car to go to lesson and as I was scratching my head going... .":)o what?... ."  I figured out that I had trained my brain to "hear" a "mad woman" and head the other way.

No talking... .no validation... .just transport those ears to another location.

I did say something to Mom the next day... .we obviously patched things up, although I didn't explain myself.

So... .long winded way of saying I think what you did was a victory!  

You have retrained your brain so that your "automatic" responses are healthy ones FOR YOU and PROTECT YOU.  No need for further analysis.

You already know he was out of it... .he is trying to hang this on you.  Your job is to avoid "the picture nail" and "hanging procedure".  Let him drop the picture on the floor... .it's his picture, not yours.

Last:  He says he won't be home unless you xyz... . your response "I understand... ."  perhaps you add "that makes me sad... "

FF

[sweetheart]

I just want to echo what Cat has said.
You were in an impossible situation, phone calls can be notoriously messy, and despite all we know to do, sometimes our hurt, where we are emotionally in that moment takes priority and that’s ok.

What is the pattern of communication after conflict like this happens? How do things usually play out, what could you do differently going forward to reduce any further conflict?

[formflier]

Yes... the pattern matters.  It matters that you "create" a new pattern going forward.  He will want the old one... .which is his right.

You walk a new path.

FF

[Enabler]

There is a reason there's a sign up in all Accident and Emergency rooms saying "We will not tolerate any physical or verbal abuse, any patient found in breach will be ejected from the hospital and refused treatment". It is a choice whether or not we stay and continue offering selfless support and encouragement in the face of attack... .or not. Some people in pain (emotional of physical) cannot see past the immediate cause of pain to see that someone is trying to help them. I'm not sure this is isolated to pwBPD in any way more than my daughter will get cross with me if I'm trying to remove a splinter.

It takes an enormous amount of personal strength to stand firm offering yourself in the face of such laser guided anger. I don't know your husband and don't know whether he would mean he would literally murder you and your mother or whether he's speaking more flippantly. Although not very pleasant, "I'm dead when I get home" is probably something we've all said when we were kids, as much as "My mum's going to murder me for that". I guess it depends on the person and whether we take everything they say literally.

His interpretation will be "She doesn't care about me or my family" regardless of what you said most likely.

[5xFive]

Thank you all.
He shouldn’t have said it and I know it. But I also knew that he didn’t mean it. This kind of stuff, suicide threats. He doesn’t mean these things. I’m trying to get to a place where I just don’t listen to them.
He raged at me last night for hours about how could I do this to him on the worst day of his life. When he started yelling, I told him that when I hear loud noises, I feel anxiety and if he can’t speak more softly, I was going to go in the other room. And then I did when he didn’t calm down. Also when he started name calling. 5 times I went in the other room. Once he chased me and tried to break down the bathroom door. He busted up his knuckles and the door. I told him that he was scaring me and I was going to leave for 30 minutes. This one I didn’t do. I had every intention to leave but I failed my own boundary.
This morning, he was supposed to go to “donuts with Dad” at s7 school. He had made the commitment to s and then last night said he wasn’t going bc he has a meeting. S7 was so upset, just big gulping sobs. Turns out h was lying. His meeting was not at 8:30, it was at 11:30. So this morning, he sent an email to work saying he would be late and then told s7 that they would go. Then he was getting ready and he sent me a text from the bathroom asking for a cup of coffee. I didn’t have my phone on me and didn’t realize it (for 14 minutes). He dysregulated completely, and decided he wasn’t going to the school. Then he starts in on how it’s all my fault, I always have my phone except for when he needs to get ahold of me and on and on it went until it was too late to make the breakfast. I let s7 stay home from school bc he was so disappointed.
Of course I went into mama bear mode and argued which made it all worse. My MIL is having a brain biopsy this morning. She called before they took her in and I talked to her. I tried to give h the phone but he refused to talk to her and said he would call back. By the time he called her, they had already taken her to surgery.
(Btw, I said 1000 mi away bc we live on the other side of the country from my in-laws, and he hates the state we live in. It’s my home state and anytime anything goes wrong, he blames me bc we are here bc of me). So now he’s mad at me that he didn’t get to talk to his mom before her brain surgery (he blames me).
Then he called and said he lost $35,000 worth of equipment at work and he was getting fired. I asked how he knows he is getting fired, he’s had a lot on his plate with his mom and he tried to take some time off but they wouldn’t let him.
He said he knows they’re firing him bc they asked him to come to the office. But this is at the time that the meeting is supposed to start, so I’m not sure I believe him. Obviously he will lie whenever it suits him. I heard him tell his boss that he was trying to get his sister up to see his mom... .he doesn’t have a sister!
So he came home and started in on me about how I’ve ruined his life and I should just die, how he’s filing for divorce and taking the children but it would be better for them if I just abandoned them. At least then they’d have a chance in life. And then he left, saying he was on his way to get fired and then he’s getting a hotel room and filing for divorce.
Needless to say, I’m upset. I don’t know what to believe but I’m tempted to believe he’s lying. Trying to keep me in the FOG. We would probably lose our house if he is fired. I was fired from my job in October and I’m only just starting to get work, and it’s part time right now. It’s going to take a month or so to make back my previous salary. After that, I can request more work from this company, and I might be able to support the family but I’ll have to be working round the clock. In the meantime, my pay isn’t close enough for what we need. I think he knows that and he’s trying to get a reaction. He’s always threatening that I can’t touch his check. Or that he’ll go to work to make “my” money. *eyes roll*
I guess I’ll find out later if it’s true. Thanks for reading
5

[5xFive]

Re: the previous pattern.
It’s always him raging. Sometimes me arguing and getting defensive until I’m exhausted and I shut up. Then he keeps on with his ridiculous statements and sometimes I get defensive again and eventually it ends. The episodes normally last 2-3 days and then I’m white again. The white phase is less predictable. It can be a day or a week.
I’ve never had boundaries so me hanging up, walking away, attempting to leave were relatively new. I’ve been working on it for the last month or so. I did call the police on him when he threatened to kill himself. Something I’ve never done. But then I backslid and protected him.
I’ve just started reading the “stop caretaking the Borderline or narcissist” that Snowglobe recommended. It really speaks to me. I had trouble with “codependent no more” bc I couldn’t relate to a lot of it. I can definitely say that I caretake. I have given myself up just to appease and I live in a state of anxiety and fear. I’m ready to stop living this way, whatever that means

[Cat Familiar]

Let's untangle some of this. You've got a lot to think about with all of his acting out and threats. Yes, anyone would be worried about their mother facing an intangible brain malady, but that doesn't give him the right to behave so poorly toward you.

He shouldn’t have said it and I know it. But I also knew that he didn’t mean it. This kind of stuff, suicide threats. He doesn’t mean these things. I’m trying to get to a place where I just don’t listen to them.

This wasn't a suicide threat; it was a homicide threat. Whether they "mean it" or not, it doesn't matter. This is clearly unacceptable. What if he did this sometime when your son overheard the conversation?

He raged at me last night for hours about how could I do this to him on the worst day of his life. When he started yelling, I told him that when I hear loud noises, I feel anxiety and if he can’t speak more softly, I was going to go in the other room. And then I did when he didn’t calm down. Also when he started name calling. 5 times I went in the other room. Once he chased me and tried to break down the bathroom door. He busted up his knuckles and the door. I told him that he was scaring me and I was going to leave for 30 minutes. This one I didn’t do. I had every intention to leave but I failed my own boundary.

Good that you are implementing boundaries. It's hard to start this if in the past, you've always listened to the abuse. That he chased you and tried to break down the door--that's a definition of physical abuse. It shows that he's capable of that, unfortunately.

So many times, us Nons think that our partners would never do something they've threatened, such as physical violence. I speak from experience with my first marriage. Then it happens because they are in the midst of a rage and the anger they feel in the moment overrides the reasonable part of them that understands consequences and wouldn't want to hurt a loved one.

I'm not trying to instill fear, but when someone has a history of suicide and homicide threats, you know that they're thinking along those lines.

This morning, he was supposed to go to “donuts with Dad” at s7 school. He had made the commitment to s and then last night said he wasn’t going bc he has a meeting. S7 was so upset, just big gulping sobs. Turns out h was lying. His meeting was not at 8:30, it was at 11:30. So this morning, he sent an email to work saying he would be late and then told s7 that they would go. Then he was getting ready and he sent me a text from the bathroom asking for a cup of coffee. I didn’t have my phone on me and didn’t realize it (for 14 minutes). He dysregulated completely, and decided he wasn’t going to the school. Then he starts in on how it’s all my fault, I always have my phone except for when he needs to get ahold of me and on and on it went until it was too late to make the breakfast. I let s7 stay home from school bc he was so disappointed.

More abuse from him directed at you. Why can't he get his own damned cup of coffee? The back and forth wavering between going to your son's event is, as you know, really damaging to your boy and heartbreaking for him. It sets up a pattern that he can't count on his dad.

My MIL is having a brain biopsy this morning. She called before they took her in and I talked to her. I tried to give h the phone but he refused to talk to her and said he would call back. By the time he called her, they had already taken her to surgery.

More blaming and shaming of you for things that are his choice, as is living where you do--obviously he agreed to it at some point or he wouldn't be there.

Then he called and said he lost $35,000 worth of equipment at work and he was getting fired... .He said he knows they’re firing him bc they asked him to come to the office. But this is at the time that the meeting is supposed to start, so I’m not sure I believe him. Obviously he will lie whenever it suits him. I heard him tell his boss that he was trying to get his sister up to see his mom... .he doesn’t have a sister!

Truth doesn't seem to matter to him. You know this well.

So he came home and started in on me about how I’ve ruined his life and I should just die, how he’s filing for divorce and taking the children but it would be better for them if I just abandoned them. At least then they’d have a chance in life. And then he left, saying he was on his way to get fired and then he’s getting a hotel room and filing for divorce.

Again, more abuse. More lies. Of course you're upset. You do know what to believe. Hold onto your truth; you are seeing things clearly. It's an incredibly stressful time for you both. It's understandable that he's upset about his mother, but his behavior toward you is unacceptable.  

[Cat Familiar]

Re: the previous pattern.
It’s always him raging. Sometimes me arguing and getting defensive until I’m exhausted and I shut up. Then he keeps on with his ridiculous statements and sometimes I get defensive again and eventually it ends.

I know this pattern well. I lived it for many years with my first husband. At the time, I didn't know of an alternative. I just wanted to make the raging end. As you know, once they're in the midst of a rage, any attempt on our part to appeal to their intellect and kindness is doomed.

It's not easy to begin to implement boundaries if you've never previously done so. Good work! You won't always remember to do so in the heat of the moment, but over time it gets much easier. It's like any new skill you're building. You will make mistakes at first, but soon it will become automatic.

Remember appeasement is like pouring gasoline on the fire. It seems counterintuitive, but appeasement guarantees that they will continue to use the bad behavioral patterns because they work!

[Skip]

  (this is my hi five, 5 X five)

First, I would like to suggest that you focus your posting on one board and not hop from Bettering to Tolerating. These are very different boards and different cultures. Pick the one that works for you and stay the course with it for a while and see how you do. Just a thought.  

I'm going to suggest a different direction than the others. Diversity is good. This is not diminish or disagrees with what others have said.

So here is a 3 minute video about the blow ups... .180 seconds... .worth a view.


Date: 2-2012Minutes: 3:35
Back From the Edge - Mini clip

Let's untangle some of this. You've got a lot to think about with all of his acting out and threats. Yes, anyone would be worried about their mother facing an intangible brain malady, but that doesn't give him the right to behave so poorly toward you.

Thank you all.
He shouldn’t have said it and I know it. But I also knew that he didn’t mean it. This kind of stuff, suicide threats. He doesn’t mean these things. I’m trying to get to a place where I just don’t listen to them.
He raged at me last night for hours about how could I do this to him on the worst day of his life... .

All of these are true. He doesn't have the right... . | You knew that he didn’t mean it. | People with BPD are at their worst when stressed.

Watermelon juice (to use the video analogy) was flying everywhere. You showed up at the Gallagher show without a raincoat.

Right now Mom is in danger. I'd tell him that you're sorry - mom is the most important thing. Lets focus and pray for mom.

When this is over (and hopefully in a positive direction)... .you can talk about how you both could handle this better. You say what you can do. He says what he can do.

This is not a time to draw a line in the sand or to be fighting. If something does go wrong, there will be lifelong scars.

To relieve your own stress in this, this one time... .try this trick.

And yes, you want to get to zero tolerance on physical threats... .and its do-able... .but pick your battles carefully.

[formflier]

Perhaps another thought

"I'm sure you would agree the situation with Mom (or whatever you guys call her) is so worrisome.  It's constantly on my mind.  Want to go walk and talk about it?"

If he tries to "go to" other issues, perhaps mention situation with Mom as pushing out everything else at the moment, so later is the only time you can discuss (fill in blank). 

Few thoughts.

You are kinda making it about your, yet it models a healthier behavior for him.  Some of it might rub off.

How does this sound?  How do you think he would react?

FF