Trying to find some sense in the middle of insanity

[RisingFromAshes]

Hello BPD Family,

I would appreciate your input/advice.

I am married to my undiagnosed BPD husband for just over 2 years. I knew nothing about BPD till my counsellor was absolutely convinced that it is the case, reading SWOES just confirmed it and even his own counsellor thought he has some traits. Of course when I suggested that he might be BPD, it did not go well... .'how dare you to diagnose me'.

The fact that he is already diagnosed ADHD who spent his childhood with Narc mother and within the past two years had all his friends and business partners walking away. Last 3 gf's over past 8 years who do not know each other accused him of being abusive. All this is still not resonating with him that he might have a problem, he insists that the world is just a nasty dark place and people take advantage of him where he never has done anything wrong.

Our story is the same as any other here - from love bombing to gaslighting in a very short period of time.

I have been in counselling for over a year, read books, tried everything I could to help him and save our marriage. I am exhausted, my physical health is suffering and I am a shadow of my former self.

After 2 years of trying I know that the only option for me is to save myself and leave as things did not and will not get better.

What I am struggling with is this:

He acts like he hates me, withdrew physical affection 1.5 years ago (sexless marriage), threatens divorce every two months or so but when I agree to get a divorce and tell him that I am moving out, he turns it around telling me that we can work things out... .that he is only wanting to get divorce because he believes that I don't want to be married to him and he is cold towards me because I am the one who makes him feel not good enough, so it's all my fault. He swears he loves me more than anything and he is always trying and always will.

I don't understand this. What does he actually want? All this indicates that he does not want me to leave but at the same time he does not want me close either.

I am so confused.

[formflier]

You have found the right place to help you sort out the question you asked below.

I'm one of the ambassadors here and will help get you settled into a board that fits your goals.  I totally understand right now you may be like... .goals?  I just want the crazy to stop... .!


I certainly was that way when I first came here.


I want to give you some hope.  What would you say if I told you that we can help YOU stabilize your life, even if your partner is saying that he won't help at all?  How does that sound to you?

I don't understand this. What does he actually want? All this indicates that he does not want me to leave but at the same time he does not want me close either.

I am so confused.

Yes it is confusing.  Most likely he can't rationally explain this and may not realize he is doing this (please don't try to explain this to him). 

Most likely it comes from rapidly changing feelings... .which he doesn't realize are changing rapidly or that he blames on others.

My wife engages in this kind of behavior and consistent applications of healthy strategies has helped this part of our relationship... .immensely.

Thoughts?

Ready to start learning?

FF

[RisingFromAshes]

Yes it is confusing.  Most likely he can't rationally explain this and may not realize he is doing this (please don't try to explain this to him). 

Most likely it comes from rapidly changing feelings... .which he doesn't realize are changing rapidly or that he blames on others.

My wife engages in this kind of behavior and consistent applications of healthy strategies has helped this part of our relationship... .immensely.

Thoughts?

Ready to start learning?

FF

Thanks for your reply, FF.
I always knew that nobody can make me feel in any way and I am the one responsible for my own feelings and my own behaviour but after two years of hell, I am losing myself too. I am still in talk therapy, I am still seeing EFT therapist, I am still practising yoga and meditation and by now none of it is helping.

I can no longer live with the sexless marriage. I know that my own emotional past wounds don't help the situation but the feeling of rejection got the better of me. We talked about it so many times and his explanation went from him being depressed and not liking himself, therefore, not being able to show me any physical affection, to being scared to disappoint me, to being scared of me because I don't have any belief in him and making him feel that he is not enough. None of it makes sense to me but the bottom line is that after 1.5 years of sexless marriage my self esteem, my self worth is suffering.
The not understanding what is actually the issue hurts more. We have started seeing couple's therapist (3 times so far) but at this point I doubt that things will ever get better because every single advice she has given, he has not followed through.

The push/pull behaviour is unbearable.

All I want is some clarity.

[Lucky Jim]

All this indicates that he does not want me to leave but at the same time he does not want me close either.

Hey RisingFromAshes, You have perfectly expressed the common BPD message of "I love you; Go away!"  I suggest you focus on what you want, because his wants are a moving target as well as out of your control.

All I want is some clarity.

It's unlikely that you are going to get clarity from him, which means that you are going to have to find it for yourself, which is actually a good thing, in my view.  You are the Captain of your own Ship, not him.  A sexless marriage, of course, is a red flag  that something is seriously wrong with your r/s and, you're right, you can't go on like that indefinitely.  What steps can you take to get to the heart of the matter?

LuckyJim

[RisingFromAshes]

Hey RisingFromAshes, You have perfectly expressed the common BPD message of "I love you; Go away!"  I suggest you focus on what you want, because his wants are a moving target as well as out of your control.

It's unlikely that you are going to get clarity from him, which means that you are going to have to find it for yourself, which is actually a good thing, in my view.  You are the Captain of your own Ship, not him.  A sexless marriage, of course, is a red flag  that something is seriously wrong with your r/s and, you're right, you can't go on like that indefinitely.  What steps can you take to get to the heart of the matter?

LuckyJim

In that case my clarity is that this constant confusion, push/pull is not working for me and after 2 years of trying everything I can, it is not going to change.
The last step I am taking is giving Couple's Therapy a go. We had 3 sessions so far. This week the counsellor asked to see us separately to get to the bottom of the issue.
I feel that I should have give this a fair shot - 3 months. If no positive changes during that time, then I have no choice but to leave.
Is 3 months fair?

[formflier]

Is 3 months fair?

No... .

We'll... .the "real" answer is "it depends". 

BPD (and any PD) is typically a tough thing to root out, because the person believes they are "normal" and everyone else is off.

Then, their feelings change and they will own their behavior... .then their feelings change... .and they will "project" their failures onto you... wash, rinse, repeat.  (did I pretty much capture your relationship?)

Risingfromashes,

Can you give me some he said, she said from the last "push/pull" thing that you did?  Pick one that was especially bothersome if possible.

We can talk about some strategies for you to stay disengaged that will also help your partner "return to neutral".

FF

[Lucky Jim]

I feel that I should have give this a fair shot - 3 months. If no positive changes during that time, then I have no choice but to leave.

Hey RisingFrom, I think it's OK to have a mental deadline that one keeps to oneself.  In my case, the problem was that I was constantly extending and modifying my own deadlines, due to my own inability to make up my mind.  Right, your clarity is what works for you, so let's go with that.

LJ

[maman]

Hi Rising From Ashes,

You said that you've read some books about BPD, have you read Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get On with Life by Margalis Fjelstad ?  This book is more about you and how to help yourself than about the BPD.  It helps you locate yourself, and it's very helpful in clearing out the confusion.  Only you can decide if you want to stay or leave, and I would tend to disregard the BPD's opinion, since it's always changing.
Maman

[RisingFromAshes]

Risingfromashes,

Can you give me some he said, she said from the last "push/pull" thing that you did?  Pick one that was especially bothersome if possible.

We can talk about some strategies for you to stay disengaged that will also help your partner "return to neutral".

FF

You guys here are amazingly supportive, understanding and helpful. Incredible!

The most bothersome example  - every month or so he finds a reason to get into an argument with me about how unsupportive I am and threatens divorce. Once I say - ok, I'll leave, after a week or so he puts his wedding ring back on and tells me that he loves me and that I should not give up.
The last argument that ended up him throwing his wedding ring at me was just after we left couple's therapy session. I said to him that I feel like we are going round in circles and I am really struggling to continue the way we are. That was it. He accused me of being unsupportive, thinking about my not met needs only instead of helping him to get out of depression. So that was last week.

Two weeks before that another argument ending in divorce threats was because I brought up 'sexless marriage issue'. Once again, he got angry about me being selfish, making him believe that he is not good enough.

There is never any room for my needs or feelings no matter how gently I approach the subject. He takes it as an attack and it escalates.

During our 2.5 year marriage he threatened divorce over 10 times. Twice I packed my bags and left but he talked me around.

This push/pull made me feel so unsafe and insecure.

[RisingFromAshes]

Hey RisingFrom, I think it's OK to have a mental deadline that one keeps to oneself.  In my case, the problem was that I was constantly extending and modifying my own deadlines, due to my own inability to make up my mind.  Right, your clarity is what works for you, so let's go with that.

LJ

Exactly that. My deadline by now shifted so many times. I have given myself 3 months over and over.
This time I am saying to myself that I'll give 3 months in Couple's Therapy and if it does not work, then this has to be it.

[RisingFromAshes]

Hi Rising From Ashes,

You said that you've read some books about BPD, have you read Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get On with Life by Margalis Fjelstad ?  This book is more about you and how to help yourself than about the BPD.  It helps you locate yourself, and it's very helpful in clearing out the confusion.  Only you can decide if you want to stay or leave, and I would tend to disregard the BPD's opinion, since it's always changing.
Maman

No, I have not read that one. I'll try to get hold of it. I only read SWOES, How to Love Someone with BPD and tonnes of online stuff.

I can see what you are saying, but how can I disregard his threats to throw me out? How can I not react to insults, curses, ring throwing?

[formflier]

  How can I not react to insults, curses, ring throwing?

I'm certainly not suggesting you "not react"... .I am suggesting that you react differently.  In a "healthier" way.

Once an argument gets "locked in" to a relationship, couples tend to return to it over and over and bludgeon each other with unshifting points of view.

Think about it, when was the last time an argument gave you new insight into your partner or you gave him new insight?  Versus "here we go again... the divorce argument... ."

"Babe... .your divorce threat makes me sad.  It's not what I want.  I'm not going to discuss this further.  I'll be back in 10 minutes to see if you want to talk about something else."

What "new" stuff will your partner learn about you from the above?

FF

[Lucky Jim]

Agree w/FF.  Those w/BPD will poke, prod, bully and insult in order to get a reaction out of you.  What kind of reaction?  It doesn't matter as long as they can draw you into the ring, at which point it's the usual circus of circular arguments and pointless abuse.  My suggestion: stay about the fray and decline to engage.

As FF suggests, it's sort of a paradigm shift, because most of us have learned to stand up to bullies and fight fire with fire, which is generally an ineffective strategy with a pwBPD.  I should know, having been previously married to my BPDxW for 16 years!

LuckyJim