Anyone have luck with non-traditional settlements/child-support agreements?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

My lawyer will be submitting our legal separation agreement to the court today or tomorrow and I'm starting to get nervous that the judge will tell us to come back with a more traditional agreement.  I'm curious whether any of you have gotten your ex and the courts to agree to something outside the traditional 50/50 split of assets, maintenance (or no maintenance), and form 14 child support.

My goal in structuring our agreement (that I got dBPDh to accept after several months of foot dragging and sign after several more months of foot dragging) was to not have to write him a check or rely on him to pay for anything our kids need outside the food they eat when they are with him.  We have 50/50 physical custody and joint legal custody of S14 and S19 .  I went into this separation asking him to show me that he can support himself, and anything more than that would be gravy. 

Soo.  I have settled with a 65/35 split of assets (in his favor).  Even without that unequal split, our mediator and my lawyer both indicated it's questionable whether the court would award him maintenance.

On the child support front, I've agreed to pay all expenses for our children (S19 in college and S14 a freshman in a private highschool) except the aforementioned food they eat while with him.  He originally objected because "money is power" and he wanted a say in what car I buy for S14 to drive, etc, so our mediator wrote additional language in the joint legal custody to clarify that he gets his say in my purchases for them. 

My main concern is that we are not going with form 14 - which would basically necessitate me writing a check to him on a monthly basis only to have to turn around and make sure he is paying his portion of the kid's expenses.  I don't want that drama , but I'm not sure how that will be viewed by the court.

Anyone else try or achieve a similar support agreement?

[BeagleGirl]

My lawyer will be submitting our legal separation agreement to the court today or tomorrow and I'm starting to get nervous that the judge will tell us to come back with a more traditional agreement.  I'm curious whether any of you have gotten your ex and the courts to agree to something outside the traditional 50/50 split of assets, maintenance (or no maintenance), and form 14 child support.

My goal in structuring our agreement (that I got dBPDh to accept after several months of foot dragging and sign after several more months of foot dragging) was to not have to write him a check or rely on him to pay for anything our kids need outside the food they eat when they are with him.  We have 50/50 physical custody and joint legal custody of S14 and S19 .  I went into this separation asking him to show me that he can support himself, and anything more than that would be gravy. 

Soo.  I have settled with a 65/35 split of assets (in his favor).  Even without that unequal split, our mediator and my lawyer both indicated it's questionable whether the court would award him maintenance.

On the child support front, I've agreed to pay all expenses for our children (S19 in college and S14 a freshman in a private highschool) except the aforementioned food they eat while with him.  He originally objected because "money is power" and he wanted a say in what car I buy for S14 to drive, etc, so our mediator wrote additional language in the joint legal custody to clarify that he gets his say in my purchases for them. 

My main concern is that we are not going with form 14 - which would basically necessitate me writing a check to him on a monthly basis only to have to turn around and make sure he is paying his portion of the kid's expenses.  I don't want that drama , but I'm not sure how that will be viewed by the court.

Anyone else try or achieve a similar support agreement?

[scraps66]

Generally speaking the court will write an Order for child support and that's it.  There is no officiating how the money gets spent. 

In your plan, how is the child support being paid out?  Through the state?  I'm not following.  What the court may have issue with is not going through the State to pay child support.  Yah see, many courts receive kickbacks from the state that dispense the child support.  This is also why it is so difficult for someone to get a CS credit even in the cases when it is black and white clear as day.

There is one good reason to have CS paid through the State - coming directly out of your paycheck.  The record.  He wouldn't be able to say that you weren't paying him.  Drama.   

[livednlearned]

Hi BG,

It's been a while since I went through the stage you're in, but I do remember thinking that if I gave ex a sizable chunk of everything, he would be less high-conflict and would leave me alone. 

My L pointed out that after he agreed to the initial settlement, there was nothing to stop him from filing a motion to modify at a later point.

Maybe there is something different in the way your court works, or in the financial/custodial details you are working out that takes care of that loophole.

Does the 65 match the maintenance you would pay to him if he had S14 for 50 percent of the time?

[flourdust]

It sounds like you make more money than him?

How do you have custody of a 19 year old? You might have a contract to pay some expenses for your 19 year old, but that's not child support and there's no pre-existing legal obligation to pay.

I think that generally the court is going to look at equitable distribution of assets, spousal maintenance, and child support as separate buckets. Being generous with assets doesn't necessarily change your maintenance or child support formula, unless perhaps there are significant income-generating assets that will change the income ratio between you.

Mandatory child support will end for the 14 year old in just three years. Maintenance can last much longer, so I would look more closely at what you are willing to do for maintenance.

[BeagleGirl]

Thanks for the responses.  A few points of clarification:

Income:  dBPDh didn't bring in any income from 2009-2016.  He started his own business when I left at the beginning of last year.  To my knowledge (he chose not to disclose financial details during the discovery phase and is accepting the imputed income I feel is reasonable knowing the going rate for his services and the availability of work) he is earning roughly 1/3 of what I earn.  That is what our lawyer is using for the form 14 values.

S19:  While he is not a minor, it's my understanding that he gets included on the form 14 because he is a full time student.  Regardless of what the courts require, I'm paying all his living expenses while he is in school and continue to contribute to his college fund at a rate that will ensure he doesn't have to take out any loans.  I expect him to start pitching in to some extent when he gets part time work/internships.

Settlement of assets:  The value of the extra 15% of the assets (after taxes) that I've agreed to equates to 6.8 years worth of the child support calculated by form 14.  A large portion of that money is my 401K, which he can cash out with no tax penalty if he does it as part of the settlement.  He will have to pay taxes on that money, but our mediator deducted the tax liability from the value of the assets he is getting in her calculations. 

Child Support:  In our agreement, there will be no child support payment made by either of us but I am obligated to pay all living expenses for both children except for food he feeds them during his 50% custody.  So I pay for all clothing, car insurance, car purchase (for S14 when he reaches driving age), car maintenance (for S19), fuel, lunch money, activities, tuition, cell phones, medical insurance, medical expenses, etc, etc, etc.  dBPDh is allowed to pay for anything extra he wants to and I'm not obligated to take on any additional expenses for our boys outside those they currently have and the additional expense of vehicle and college education (I agreed to pay the equivalent of state university for 4 years for S14, but school choice will be up to S14 with input from both parents) when the time comes.

Maintenance:  This was the big "win" on my part.  The settlement designates non-modifiable maintenance agreement with no maintenance to be paid to either of us.  According to my lawyer, he can't come asking for maintenance.  Well... .he could ask, but he has no legal standing to be awarded any.

I think a lot of my anxiety is around the possibility of the judge rejecting our current agreement because it doesn't fit the mold.  The idea of putting all of this back on the table and renegotiating sounds like he11.  I might end up with more assets, but the idea of paying him money that I then need to make sure gets spent on the things it needs to be spent on drives me a bit bonkers.  I have a hard time imagining how civility can be managed with that kind of situation.

Thanks again for your feedback.

[40days_in_desert]

BeagleGirl, I'm not sure what the law is concerning child support where you live. In my state it is when they turn 18 or graduate from high school, whichever occurs later. Basically, if one child turns 18 six months before graduation, child support continues until they graduate. If they turn 18 two months after they graduate high school, child support continues for two months after graduation until their 18th birthday. College, whether full time student or not, has nothing to do with continuing child support. It is completely voluntary at that point. I would get clarification from your L on that one. I would also get clarification on how child support ends in your state. Typically, you can't just stop on their 18th birthday or graduation. An order has to be filed with the court. At least that's the way it's done in my state.

[ForeverDad]

BeagleGirl, I'm not sure what the law is concerning child support where you live. In my state it is when they turn 18 or graduate from high school, whichever occurs later. Basically, if one child turns 18 six months before graduation, child support continues until they graduate. If they turn 18 two months after they graduate high school, child support continues for two months after graduation until their 18th birthday. College, whether full time student or not, has nothing to do with continuing child support. It is completely voluntary at that point. I would get clarification from your L on that one.

Your perspective is that you want it done and over with.  The risk is that you may be willing to part with more than you ought to "just to get it over with".  You need to ponder how you might feel about this two years or five yeas from now.  You may one day be asking yourself, "Why in the world did I do that?"  Being too generous or too willing to sacrifice yourself now can lead to regrets years from now.

While some settlements do include college education — very smart that you based any $$$ obligations on less expensive local college prices — I don't know if courts require that.  I would beware of volunteering to obligate yourself to finances years in the future.  You know he probably won't help pay for future expenses.  You know you will, if you can.  So what need is there to add it and lock it into an agreement that he may somehow find a way to sabotage you?  All I see is a downside of financial risk to you and little or no upside.

My court settlement and order don't mention anything after high school.  Neither of us parents can help much in that regard anyway.  Ten years ago I had good work but I didn't know that I'd be let go (last year) and have a hard time finding an equivalent job.  Technically I was retired from work, I had attained over 15 years there, but that was my only option when I was let go.  If I had assumed back then that I could pay son's college and put that into a court order, I'd be frantic today.  Back then she was the one with imputed income.  Today, I'm the one that would have to resort to imputed income.

[livednlearned]

I think a lot of my anxiety is around the possibility of the judge rejecting our current agreement because it doesn't fit the mold. 

Maybe it's different where you live, but in my state, if both adults agree to something, then the judge will sign off on it.

It's when one or both can't agree that the judge gets involved and rules one way or another.

The judge may question whether you're fully aware of what you're doing, or have an idea about how things work, but mostly to keep you out of his or her court.


 

[bus boy]

A few years ago, xw and I did an access settlement agreement, we did it through court, the judge was only there to guide not judge and xw and I had to agree to the terms 100% or there was no agreement. Xw agreed fully to every term. Normally she is a horrid piece of the devil. I thought it strange she was so reasonable. After we agreed to the terms, the judge said she wanted to review 9 months in, just to see how it was working.
  About a week in, xw started wanting to make changes, I said no, it's good the way it is. The order took lots of control away from xw, she figured she would be able to start bringing the order back around to her liking but I wouldn't budge. Xw did everything to make it not work, she was her true horrible self through out the 9 months. S11 was doing very well with the order, his school had actually improved, it was great access, all around good but not what xw wanted. She set her mind to get clear of this order and that's exactly what she did. We had to go back to family court, she lied horribly on the stand, her affadavid was a pack of lies and things she did she twisted it all back on me. The judge viewed me as some kind of a disfunctional dead beat dad when he gave his statement to the court and viewed xw as a poor single mother having to deal with a person like me. Xw got her way and I got the bare minimum access.