Difficulties with therapy and JADEing

[HouseDad3]

Moderation note: this thread was split from: a thread originally posted by ozmatoz for more targeted discussion.

Oz,

I’m new to this site. Reading your post is like a window into my life!  My W was referred to DBT years ago, by our couples counselor, but only went to one session. Now she’s convinced I labeled her BPD and our T “needed to make a diagnosis” so T just went along with my accusation of BPD. I learned of BPD though the same sessions as she did when first referred to DBT.

I continued to see the T. She didn’t. She’s mad I did continue. T said he lacked the skill set to appropriately treat a high function BPD and gave several referrals to T’s who do. W would attend one session but then stop. At one point she wanted to go back with me to our original T however, like I said, T isn’t willing to take her on.

Here was W’s text to me:
I am so furious that (T) would refuse to allow me to meet with him. The letter that you wrote to my counselor that you said the first week you did not write, the second week you forgot what it said and the third week you told me it was gone from your email but the fourth week you forwarded to me and over that my counselor wouldn’t see me anymore? That letter that you say that (T) advise you to write? I began marriage counseling with you because I wanted help on how to accept the fact that you would refuse to help with chores or you would say that you had done things that you had not done. Over our time with (T) it became obvious that you had been hiding so many things like the letter you had received calling me a narcissist and he became so fixated on labeling something wrong with me and having some third-party fix it.  And three or four years into this I decide that after I have had every counselor and therapist and psychiatrist and Dr. tell me that I am not any of the types of crazy you tell me I am and instead I am tired of having you lying to me... .suddenly you’re willing to see a counselor on your own?  But that you chose our marriage counselor... .& that he refuses to talk with me? I can’t do this. I don’t trust you. I think you’re lying. Again. Like the letter. I need to be able to rely on some ONE person to tell me the truth. & you keep proving that that’s not you.”

Some background: Years ago, someone anonymously sent me a letter basically saying they recognize behaviors associated with NPD in my W.

During one of her episodes, she was on the phone with a mental health professional who felt she was suicidal and contacted police. Police came, I took her to hospital for evaluation and I emailed the T the hospital referred her to at discharge to share background about her BPD. This new T disclosed my email about two years later. Now W thinks I am wholly untrustworthy.

Also, I never lied about letters existence, but did say I wasn’t willing to share it at that time. I did some time later.

I do the house chores.

As Oz mentioned, little things like emailing now, in an hour, or the next day would yield same result yet if I didn’t then I was not doing the things I had promised, thus making me a liar. Yet she will tell close friends that I just sit and “play video games for seven hours.”  More like 45 min with the kids as a family activity.  While she locks herself in the bedroom and plays games on her phone avoiding the family.

She has repeatedly asked me to leave and move out. I haven’t and won’t. She often threatened divorce but now says she won’t grant me a divorce but wants me to leave. She’ll then want to plan trips for the future with all of us.

Yes, OZ I get the same treatment and I too feel like the tank is about to empty and I’ll get in and go. But I don’t. The kids need me to be strong and be that buffer to her BPD.

HouseDad3

[HouseDad3]

So this just happened:

Immediately after my above post, I went to my bedroom where W is. She said she had the worst day of her life because of how poorly my son and I treat her. She said we both called her a “liar” separately in front of others. She said she blames me because he’s been raised in a home where I treat her so badly that he’s learned to treat others the same way. She said she’s fearful he’ll grow up and treat a future wife in the same abusive way I treat her.

Her basis for this?  Today, W and I were with a couple I have known for over 30 years; we are all great friends. While having a conversation, she told them how I was neglecting the family in various ways.  I fell for the “bait.”  I countered, “That is a lie!”  I then listed the family centered chores/activities I’d been doing while she played games on her phone.  I immediately recognized I fell for the “bait.” While the friends where present I apologized and said I didn’t mean to label her a liar. She said, “thank you for apologizing.”  However, I knew. I knew this was going to blow up at some point.

Then hours later, while the family was in the car, my son retold an experience he had that day. W took a phone call and told the caller about our son’s experience. Once off the phone my son said, “You told them some wrong information. That wasn’t what I’d just explained.”  She then told my son it was his obligation to call the caller back and set it straight. My son said it really didn’t matter and wouldn’t change the outcome of the experience. My W then told me I had to ensure our son followed through.  This put my son into tears because he was beening forced to correct the misinformation she told.

So now, in her eyes, we both called her a liar and it’s because that’s how our kids see me behave.

She said she’s no longer willing to move out but clearly sees we, my son and I, and by extension our other kids, don’t want her in the family anymore. She said, “I just want to crawl in a hole and die.”

I told her I understood her point of view. I reassured her I was sorry, just like when I apologized earlier in the day. She then cut me off and said she had work to attend to. I offered to get her some food or water but she declined.

So here I came.

This is hard. No doubt.

HouseDad3

[formflier]

If you could turn the clock back.

How could you have handled the situation better when your wife started "telling on you"?

FF

[HouseDad3]

FF,

I could have not said anything and just “played along” laughing along since the conversations were light hearted with the friends.   Or said something like, “I’m sorry you saw it that way. I was working on a project which ended up taking more time than I expected.”

Perhaps those would have worked?

[formflier]

It was an invitation to fight... plain and simple.

"I remember that differently.  Sounds like a conversation for a therapist rather than our friends.  I need to get back to our enjoyable evening out."

How would she have reacted to that?

If she insisted on discussing how bad you were... .your next step would be to excuse yourself for the evening.

"I don't participate in re-writing history.  I'll discuss with a therapist, not our friends."  (leave)

FF

[HouseDad3]

FF,

Unfortunately, it’s been my experience lately with her that any recommendation to discuss an issue with a therapist is a trigger for her. Her response is, “I’ve wanted to go to a therapist with you for years but you have refused!  Now suddenly you want to go?  It’s too little too late!”

I have continued to attend counseling for the past 30 months and have my next appt tomorrow. She stopped attending her therapist in June. We attended a couples counselor for one session in early December where she declared she didn’t want to see the therapist.

I feel if I’d said something like you recommended mentioning a therapist in front of our friends she would lead to an episode.

HouseDad

[formflier]

And I think that would be just fine for her to have an episode in front of your friends... .or anywhere.

The key is that you go do something else.

You are important enough to stand up for.  You demonstrated that to your friends, to your wife and most importantly to yourself.

You took care of yourself and trusted your wife to do the same. 

You worry about your results and she can worry about hers.

What's done is done, I'm more interested in what you do "next time".


FF

[HouseDad3]

FF,

She will refrain from an outburst in front of others. She’ll wait hours or even days until the blow up occurs on me in private and often multiple times for the same reason, such as when I attempt intimacy. “I can’t do this (sex) with you because (enter any incident from years of being together). I don’t trust you!” On and on and on.   She’s totally shut down any willingness to see a therapist alone or together.

One of her concerns is “What will others say/think/etc.”

Next time, I need to take a breath, recognize the bait, and not take it.

I know others, family/friends/associates, do not believe I am a terrible husband or father. However, the pain associated inside me when she blatantly tells untruths that depicts me as such is a struggle to not JADE.

[formflier]

So... if she cares what others think... .what was she doing bringing it up to friends?

FF

[HouseDad3]

FF,  she has no problem telling others how I do wrong but if there is any mention of a mistake she’s made, no matter how minor, she’ll episode about it toward me in private later. It like she’s constructing a story and placing herself as a victim being controllled by me. She once told a friend that I demanded she stop therapy when the opposite was true. I pleaded with her to continue with DBT but she refused.

[formflier]

 
What YOU need to teach her with your actions is that YOU will NOT be discussed in a negative way outside the office of a therapist.

She can episode all she wants... public private... .she can post youtube videos, tweet... .she can do whatever.

But you won't be there for any of that.

She can tell your friends that you locked the therapist in a closet... .and that you are a cross dresser... . same advice... .you won't be part of it... at all.

Eventually... if you are consistent, it will start to die out.

She probably can't "intellectualize" it (explain it if she wanted), but she is "getting something" from explaining to others how screw up you are and how much she is blessing you by sticking around your sorry a$$.  (pretty close?)

My wife has a pretty good streak of that in her... .

At the end of the day... I had to sort out in my mind that what my wife says about me is a reflection on her... .not me.  It helped that some were were so preposterous... .such as the time she "turned me in" to a preacher for trying to kill her with a plugged in sex toy (like it would electrocute her in the water... .while plugged into a GFCI).

I wish I were kidding... .

FF

[HouseDad3]

FF,  Thank you, I’ll give it a try. I suspect when I get home this evening I’ll need to practice your recommendation.

[formflier]

Tell you what... .why not write out what you think will happen tonight and what the "old you" would have done... .

then write out how you think you would change it.

If that goes well... perhaps you try it.

Much better to practice and study and get it right... than to hurry and "misfire"

FF