I can't get my daughter to counseling

[Yat4]

 I can't get my daughter to counseling, although she agrees she needs it. She was kicked out of the Navy for borderline personality disorder. She went on to have three kids with a methhead, who eventually left. She is now living with a a K2 addict that is not much better. We are frequent victims of rage and denial of visitation the grandchildren. This was the recent intenteraction:
THU 10:42AM
K:
I'm gonna make plans to move to Oklahoma, can't pay rent. We will be evicted next week.
THU 1:51PM
L:
What is moving to Oklahoma going to change? You get there without a job and no place to live.
THU 2:51PM
L:
www.svdpfw.org/assistance/
Assistance
svdpfw.org
L:
www.ahomewithhope.org/homeless-assistance/rental-assistance/
I Need Help with My Rent - TCHC - Tarrant County Homeless Coalition
Homeless Prevention Funds that assist with rent are available to individuals that qualify in order to help these individuals remain in housing. Rapid Re-Housing Funds that assist with housing placement and rent for a short period of time are available for individuals that are currently…
ahomewithhope.org
THU 4:01PM
K:
Vincents parents are going to pay it. Owe them more now.
L:
That's good. Work now for a plan for next month.
K:
Yeah,  need to find out what's going on with housing
THU 5:38PM
K:
I need gas
THU 6:47PM
L:
I'm sorry to here that. It's tough when ends are tight.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Yat4]

She is fine then completely has a meltdown. It' hard enough on me me, but what about the poor kids! I think she is making me crazy!

It's things like that though that make me feel less of a person to yall
When everyone takes their grown kids on vacation with them
L:
I don't know that anything I say will make you feel different, but I'm here when you are ready for therapy.
K:
I may be jealous of other families and their relationships.
L:
And J will always be an ass.
K:
Everyone has good relationships with thier familes. Goes on vacations or just do fun stuff together.
I get asked why does your parents love animals more than you
L:
Other families aren't dealing with BPD, and neither are we yet.
K:
Why won't your parents let you move in?
I get asked that once a day
L:
When you are ready, I'm ready.
K:
I just want to know how y'all can watch me struggle so bad and not help?
I tried to kill myself last month and still I feel I'm on my own
I keep asking for help till I'm blue in the face
L:
It is very hard, knowing what is best for you and trying to bring you to see it. But I can't make you go to therapy.
K:
What will it take for y'all to help me?
L:
Therapy
K:
I need more help then therapy. I have asked your help with kids.
I cant get their rooms clean and organized
L:
You Will not get better any other way. This is the only way we can help.
You're children will not get better until you do.
K:
I still need with the kids. Therapy will not make me not be a single mother anymore. I still need help
L:
It will make a huge difference. You have to want it though.
K:
I don't have an issue going to therapy. It's just not my main concern when I'm struggling to pay rent and put a roof over my kids heads.
Therapy isn't going to get to and from work
L:
That isn't going to change with out therapy. The choice is yours.
K:
Explain to me how therapy is going to take me to work?
Or how therapy is going to pay rent?
L:
Therapy will help you succeed in life, despite a major mental illness that has been holding you back.
Talking nice to your father, whom has done my than I would may get you back and forth to work. He loves you way more than you know.
K:
I understand but therapy does not fix my immediate problems. May fix long term. He doesn't show it.
L:
His pain on all this is more than I can imagine.
K:
It really hurt that he didn't want to see us Christmas
I needed y'all and I understood your reason but not his
How many nights I've cried myself to sleep because I don't have a father
L:
He dedicated his life to you, and this family. Whem we rat out of money, you abandoned him. That hurts takes awhile to heal.
Therapy
K:
I never left, he left me
L:
He feels the same way
K:
I needed him Christmas and he wasn't there for me
L:
Therapy
K:
Not sure what therapy will fix when everyone sees what I see
L:
He needed you. His mom died on Christmas Eve and he was alone
K:
I tried to kill myself, I needed him
Why is that taken so lightly with y'all? Because it was just Benadryl
L:
If you don't see the problem, nothing will be fixed.
K:
It's like it didn't happen or y'all just don't care
L:
Therapy
K:
My life means nothing to y'all
Therapy isn't going to make my parents care about me
L:
It does but we can't fix it. Therapy
Your mind Is telling lies. Therapy
K:
And everyone that tells me y'all love the animals more than me is a lie too?
L:
Lies. Listen to your heart. Therapy.
K:
Hard to believe when y'all haven't put me first in a long time. Y'all didn't have to put me through college or pay for normal things. I've been on my on for years and the time I need yall, I'm on my own.
We can talk in therapy I guess.
This isnt getting anywhere. I'm trying to explain to you why I feel the way I feel
L:
This is a bad diease. Don't let it steal you're life and that of your children. I'm ready when you are to fight back!
K:
We can talk in therapy, maybe the therapist can mediate what I'm trying to say.
L:
Let me know a when you set up the appointment, I'm there!
K:
I thought therapy was in Dallas
L:
Yes. BDt is Dallas. I'll send you the info tomorrow
K:
Okay
4:27AM
K:
Planning Zack's birthday, think we are gonna go to main event Friday February 16th if y'all would like to join.
Seen by K at 4:27am
8:12AM
L:
https://www.dbtdallas.com/index.html

[Yat4]

This was a long emotional struggle that happended over several hours, and occurs at least once a week. Anyone one with tips or insight please post! I just don't know what else to do and I'm very worried about my grandchildren.

[bluek9]

Hi Yat4, wow! What an exhausting dialog for you. Do you know about the S.E.T. skills? You can find them at the right of the screen. What I read within your dialog sounds like an on going argument between you and her. With her responses it sounds like all she is hearing from you is an ultimatum, therapy or nothing. That makes for a power struggle that feeds her emotions about no one wanting to her. I have a 35 year old BPD d, she lives with me and I'm raising her son. I know this may sound crazy but I learned a long time ago if I wanted to direct my d in something (anything) I had to find a way  to get her to think it as her idea. Therapy can be a great tool but, don't forget she needs to think she needs help or that there will be something in it for her. Remember the black and white thought process of BPD's. I hear you and empathize with you about the grandkids, it's always sad when children when are caught up in their parents issues.
    I also read a lot of her blaming you, trying to make you feel responsible for her emotions as she talks about suicide. Do you think that maybe she is putting you in a bind  with that, trying guilt you into taking responsibility, or shame you into sending money?
    Keep coming back here, you will find support, ideas and tools.

[Yat4]

She absolutely brings guilt into every conversation about money, either using the kids (they don't have any food!) or her (I'm might as well kill myself!). I have read the SET, but I'm still working on it very hard.  Thank you so much for reading the interaction and helping with it. Is there any specific points that I made that I should change? We absolutely cannot give her more money. We have almost bankrupt ourselves to this point. I would sacrifice something to pay for her therapy, but nothing else. How do I get her to want it?

[bluek9]

Hi Yat4, two things you just said stand to me. How do I make her want it (therapy) and the money thing. Sad but true** as one individual we do not possess the power to MAKE another person want something. That concept is really hard as the parent, we want the best for our children. Me personally I'm big on natural consequences. If you don't think things through, and the end result is a mess, then you need to work that out yourself. Of course we don't want to see our children suffer or struggle; but how else will they learn for themselves. I'm right there with you on the money issue! For years I felt like the more I did the more she wanted and took. At one point she wiped out the sum of my savings, over 10 grand. What works for me is my boundaries. I no longer feel any guilt when she turns on her run downs of what she wants or what she doesn't have. I simply remind her she has a budget (I'm her payee) bills get paid first, she gets an allowance, wen it's gone it's gone. Stand firm in your conviction to not give her money.
    Yes the SET is hard! It takes practice, keep it up, pretty soon it will come easier. About the points you should change, read the lesson on how to stop the conflict, when your approach is not working, and diffusing emotions. The hamster wheel of arguments is a constant trap. My daughter is soo overly dramatic and emotional, I have to keep myself neutral and not get sucked in. When the emotional statements start I simply say wow that must hard for you to deal with. Please let me know how this works for you. I'm hear for you.

[Lady Itone]

Can I just say, Yaz4, that I am really, really rooting for you? It's so frustrating when they won't do anything to help themselves. I'm really impressed with how she's throwing everything in the book at you, and you persist. Your will has to be stronger than hers, because what you're trying to achieve is the right, just thing. No rational person would not agree to go to therapy under the circumstances. It's positively maddening.

[once removed]

Is there any specific points that I made that I should change?

i would look to what i can validate. it sounds like she primarily wants to be heard, and her fears are very valid. it would be terrifying to be a single mother of three kids, and in her circumstances.

think of it this way:

we all need support and to be heard. if you came to this board, and we responded "therapy", youd probably think "okay, therapy sounds great, but what does that do about my very real concerns". if we then responded "therapy" youd likely feel frustrated and not heard. you might double down in trying to get your point across. at that point, neither party is hearing the other, and only talking at each other.

We absolutely cannot give her more money.

understandable. "no" is never easy to say, but its something we all have to do, and as you say, its not an option. are there areas you can offer support, such as watching the kids? thats a win win for everybody.

has an appointment been made?

[Yat4]

Thank you so much for your replies! She is not going to therapy, won't set an appointment and has stopped taking her depression medications. I haven't said anymore about it, just let it be.

I'm just focusing on the grandkids and doing what I can to make their lives easier. She is not helping in that regard. Yesterday, her boyfriend took her debit card while she was asleep and spent her entire paycheck. The youngest grandson's birthday party is on Friday and now she has no money to pay for the venue she booked for it.

I offered a solution, have the party at my house. I'll decorate, bake him a cake, invite who ever you want. She thanked me so much and agreed... .then someone gave her $200, so she canceled that plan and went back to the original. No lessons learned. She isn't even angry at the boyfriend. I am just keeping my silence, but it's hard.

Thank you again for all the support! Sometimes I feel like I'm crazy!