How did you initiate the divorce? Surprise, or communicated?

[ozmatoz]

Things just really haven't improved.  After a brief separation in December there has been no improvement nor any willingness on uBPDw side to move into neutral territory.  Its been over 3 years since the trouble really started and just over a year straight of being painted black and daily dysregulations.  I have no energy to put into protecting myself anymore.  I can tell if I stay, what little strength I have reclaimed is about to be taken and I will crash and burn.  I want to actually live my own life now.

uBPDw keeps threatening divorce and claims to have "papers ready to go" but we've been down this path before and it was all talk.

My question to the group is how did you actually initiate the process?  Were you served?  Did you serve?  If you served your spouse did you give them a heads up or was it a total surprise?

Has anyone had success with leaving the difficult discussions to the lawyers (expensive I know)?

My wife is extremely volatile and I'm not sure surprise would be in mine or the kids best interest.  When she asks me about divorcing and negotiating "my visitation" I know it could be a chance to move this to the lawyers without hitting the nuke button but I know better than to try and negotiate anything with her.  Its impossible.  She's often stated I'll pay for everything... .literally everything as if we never divorced.  She'd keep the house without having to buy me out, I pay for her leased vehicle, all the bills... .etc... .  She has a fantasy view of what divorce actually looks like (even though this is her second marriage).

Any sage advice out there?
-Oz

[flourdust]

I remember agonizing over how to start the divorce process. Serve her? Get her out of the house first? Do it in front of a witness? What was the right timing? Should I let her mother know first? All that kind of stuff.

In the end ... .it doesn't really matter. Just like your wedding day is the just overplanned first day of your marriage, the day you start a divorce is just one step on a very long road. It turns out not to be worthwhile to put too much energy into planning the perfect service of papers.  

[ozmatoz]

I see your point... .in the end of this long road it won't really matter.  I think I'm just so gun shy.  She's raged and put me through so much especially in the last 6 months that I fear I'd crumble if she loses her mind by being surprised with papers.  But at least they've been served.

On the flip side, if I tell her "hey we've talked about this enough, I'm going to finally start the process... ." She'll likely still freak out and possibly talk me out of it which is bad.

Its so hard for me to feel like just serving someone papers.  Just like it gets me in trouble being in a r/s with a pwBPD I find that its not in my nature to be so aggressive or confrontational.

I need to talk to my T about not feeling like the "bad guy" for filing.

[GaGrl]

This is where you go ahead and talk to your lawyer about options.

Do you want her to leave the house?  If so, you need to have that set up when you serve papers.  If your preference is to protect you and your children from her behaviors (that you can document), you would want to file a protective order and have her leave the house at the time you serve the divorce petition.

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Hey oz. That is a tough one. I really feel for you.  It may not go well regardless of how you approach it. I believe that with someone who is BPD and/or NPD, they feel you're abandoning them and their reaction may be through the roof which is what happened to me. I may have talked about this before with you on a different thread.

In my situation, I tried to give my now-ex (BPD & NPD) a heads up with the help of a marriage counselor. To say it did not go well, is an understatement. He gave me the silent treatment, he literally turned his back on me, and stormed out in a rage. After that he would yell at me, question me about everything I did, who I talked to, where I went, etc. So I worked on getting a divorce attorney and starting the process without telling him. During that time I tried to educate myself on my rights (with my attorney's help). Where I live you only need one person to file for divorce.

Before I was going to tell him, I told a very close friend what I was about to do. We set up a code that I would text him if I felt I needed him to call the police on my behalf. My now-ex was very volatile and emotionally abusive. I truly didn't know what he would do when I told him and I was really scared but I knew I had to do it for my sake and my kids' sake. So I put some plans into place in case things went really bad. When I was as ready as I felt I'd ever be, I filed for divorce and then told him I had filed for divorce. He totally lost it. He went into a total rage but thankfully I didn't need to call the police.  He left the house in a rage and went to his mother's place. Things got really bad after that but I held my ground. He finally ended up moving out right after the temporary orders hearing.

I think it depends on your situation. Since kids are involved, I would highly recommend getting an aggressive attorney and hopefully one who knows about BPD. I am so very thankful I ended up with an aggressive, assertive attorney who actively looked out for my kids' best interests as well as mine. Yes it got expensive but for me I truly believe it was worth it. My ex tried to convince the judge to put me into forced counseling and that I was an unfit mother (he had absolutely no proof). By that time we had already been to several marriage counselors and I was already in trauma therapy. Thankfully it didn't work. He tried to play "dirty" many times (lots of horrible blatant lies and accusations without proof) and thankfully the court saw through it. He tried to take me to the cleaners (I make more money than he) but it didn't work. I did end up having to pay him alimony in the end and I've made peace with it.

Your wife may try to force you into things, manipulate you, use the kids against you (parental alienation), play up on how she'll take you for everything you've got, etc. Don't fall for it. Make sure you document everything you can. Don't promise her anything either. In my case, his mind games got 100x worse. My therapist, attorney, family, and close friends helped me out tremendously.

During the mediation attempts, he and I were never in the same room at the same time except for when we were in court for final orders. In a way, it was good that I didn't have to deal with him with the attorneys present. Later on when we compared notes with the help of a divorce counselor, it seemed he and I were told different things. Personally, I think he does a lot of magical thinking and only hears what he wants to hear. So I don't know if it would have helped or not if we were in the same room during those times. Our attorneys did discuss things between themselves at times which helped.

I don't know if any of this helps you. In summary, I highly recommend a good attorney, a good therapist, do not put anything in writing without your attorney, and to not fall for her manipulation attempts and magical thinking. Also, I highly recommend that if you have her served, make sure the kids are no where around when they do it. Long story, my ex forced me to serve him at home. He made sure he couldn't be served at work (security made the server leave) and he never went anywhere else except at home. He refused to pick them up and so on.  In hindsight, I should have taken the kids out of the house. He showed them the divorce papers and told them a lot of horrible things. It was a nightmare! I had never thought he would do something like that and I hate how it affected the kids at the time. It was a huge "bomb" on them and it was hell for months after that.

In hindsight, I don't know if telling him upfront would have helped or not. Probably not, in my case. After I filed, he tried everything he could to stop it but he couldn't. If I had told him upfront what I was doing, he probably would still have done everything he could to stop me. In my case it felt like I was damned if I did and damned if I didn't.  What does your gut instinct say? If you have her served, maybe do it in a public place? Maybe your attorney will have some ideas.  I think you need to do what you feel is best. Despite all that, I truly hope it goes well for you.

[ForeverDad]

When you marry, your expectations are to live together henceforth, you do share your lives.  However, in a divorce where the marriage is unwinding, you share only the necessary things (parenting issues mostly).  Sadly, sharing information about a contemplated divorce can end up giving the other spouse time to sabotage you.

My then-spouse separated after a 911 call and her later arrest for Threat of DV.  (It was later dismissed because the judge cited case law in my district where a drunk husband wasn't found guilty when telling his wife, "If I had a gun... ."  I didn't file for divorce until nearly 5 months later.  You can guess what she did.  Yep, she starting making multiple child abuse claims and so I faced an uphill struggle to overcome the default preference given to her in temp custody and parenting schedule.  I don't know if it would have gone any better for me if she hadn't made allegations but the point is not to maneuver yourself into a defensive game.  As you probably know, sports teams play Defense primarily when they have to, they play Offense if they want to win.

[livednlearned]

My question to the group is how did you actually initiate the process?  Were you served?  :)id you serve?  If you served your spouse did you give them a heads up or was it a total surprise?

Just to walk this back a bit, how would you describe your wife? Bill Eddy (author of Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a NPD/BPD Spouse) suggests that not all people with BPD are high-conflict personalities (HCPs). Most of us on this board have HCP ex spouses. An HCP is a persuasive blamer, has a target (you), recruits negative advocates, and has a PD. The legal system puts these tendencies on turbo charge. Not all people with BPD are HCPs, but all HCPs have a PD.

Eddy also describes different types of severity:

*generally cooperative, not dangerous
*not cooperative, not dangerous
*not cooperative, dangerous

For me, my ex was not cooperative, dangerous so I planned my exit for a year and gathered as much leverage as possible. Without the element of surprise, the trauma, abuse, and control would've been excruciating.

Has anyone had success with leaving the difficult discussions to the lawyers (expensive I know)?

The way to approach lawyers is to interview several -- an hour consultation will cost a few hundred dollars, but you will gain invaluable information that will help you plan. Lawyers work for you, so when you talk to them, tell them what your goals are, and ask them what strategy they would propose, and what tactics might work. Ask them how much they anticipate a high-conflict divorce will cost, how quickly they return phone calls, if they have experience litigating, their thoughts and experiences with mediation, are they full-time divorce lawyers or is that only part of what they do, etc.

When it comes to talking about divorce, your wife is the last person to listen to  

She is bullying you, and using talk of divorce as a source of control.

My ex did the same (he's a former trial attorney) and I found out when meeting with a lawyer that virtually everything ex said was hooey.

My ex also became very compliant when it became clear I left the relationship for good. There was a lot of sunlight shining on our relationship, with therapists, lawyers, parenting coordinator. For a short period of time, he managed to be on his best behavior, but the nature of BPD (impulsivity, mood instability) led to some spectacular dysregulations, all of it documented in one way or another.

From what you describe your wife is like, I would gather information proactively without telling her. It will trigger her fear response and she might take a proactive approach that includes false allegations.

When I look back on things, my take is that you have to run the divorce/custody for the two of you because she likely can't problem solve. Being proactive and thinking things through with the utmost care means you can protect her from herself, while looking out for yourself and the kids.

[ozmatoz]

When I have some more time later I will put a longer reply, just wanted to pop up a thank you to those who responded already.

I do have some questions, and will post later.  I have read splitting a few times.  I've see my wife as definitely uncooperative but I've seen her bounce back and forth from dangerous to not dangerous... .  More like unpredictable.  After her DV arrest last fall, even though the charges were dismissed I think its finally set in that a second round of that the DA and judge would look at her much differently... .the "physical" dangerous doesn't seem to be in play, but if I consider false charges and allegations to be dangerous then yes, I think I will have an uphill battle.

more later...

thanks!
-Oz

[ozmatoz]

Ok, she really has kept me on my toes as I'm never sure which way she is going to go.

Some days, I feel like my entire life savings will be spent on lawyers, other days she seems to want to mediate.  She says she doesn't trust me yet I have been nothing but up front and transparent with her regarding our finances.  She says she doesn't want to waste money on lawyers yet tells me she feels like I'm the one pushing her there.  I have from the beginning 3+ years ago prior to BPD knowledge pushed for mediation stating I have nothing to hide.  I don't want to use lawyers to wring us dry.

She believes I've run up the credit cards with frivolous purchases to push debt to her and she won't take any of it in the divorce.  The reality is, bills and school have been paid on the cc because she stopped contributing to our finances back in September.  I know this will come out in front of lawyers and judges and I'll be fine but I can't understand how she cannot grasp this concept.
She's telling me that she won't file jointly because I won't move out.  I keep telling her I'm not going anywhere until there is legal paperwork.  I've expressed if she wants to draw up a legal agreement that my moving out temporarily will not be used in support or custody decisions then fine.  Other than that I am not giving her an opportunity to use it against me later.

She believes that I'm only where I'm at in life solely on her sacrifices alone, that for 17 years she's given up everything and I owe her.  She has always been able to find decent employment, used to work full time, has an opportunity to do so now.  Because of D11's health issues we collectively decided her having a part time job in town made the most sense until D11's health issues settled down some.
She continues to buy things (with my money) for the house and tells her friends all about how she's decorating it... .yet during some of our arguments she has said fine, sell the house, be an ass and rip the kids home out from under them.  At one point she said she knew of a way to get the courts to force me to pay for the house until D11 turned 18... .um no.

So will she be cooperative?  Absolutely not and it drives me crazy when she says its me that isnt trustworthy and forcing this through lawyers.

I have been planning an exit for awhile, I do have a good attorney who has dealt with HCP before.  I'm being told my wife's attorney (if she indeed picked the one she's been to) will fight hard for her client, but its reputable and not anything like an "ambulance chaser".  The problem I see is I think her FOO (sister mostly) is filling her head with garbage and she is not actually talking nor actually retained an attorney.  I think she's hoping to force me out with threats, clean up an unfair settlement and keep a few extra bucks from the retainer money for herself.

I used to keep logs of daily activity and interactions but for the last 6 months I barely have enough energy to get through the work day and any free moment I have is used to diffuse her from raging at me and trying to get me fired.  What little time I've had I have been on here looking for advice and support.

I honestly have no idea what kind of crap she'll throw at me.  My T says anything that she can throw at you shouldn't stick, but I'll be honest I'm afraid.
my wife is excellent at spinning stories and weaving webs of little pieces into much larger stories.  She is a great actress and I've seen her play the "abused wife" before and its sickening.

IF she really wants to be away from me and IF she really does want this marriage to be over and to let each other move on like she continually tells me, why would she want to fight this out.  What is the end game for her?  What on earth does she think she is going to win?  Is it just that she wants to see me suffer?  Is it that she wants to feel like she's won financially?  I just cant wrap my head around this and I'm terrified the divorce is going to drown me.

As far as the kids are concerned... .well when she get angry with me there has been some PA with D11, but nothing that I can put down or generate proof.  D16 is pretty strong and holds up well against her mother.  D16's T has her reading SWOE and D16 has a pretty good grasp on whats happening.  Also D16 uses the cover of being a moody teenager to disappear to her room when she's done dealing with her mom's BS.  My wife has never physically abused the children that I am aware of.  She can generally be pretty loving to them.  I find that when she is ranting and raging with me it tends to push towards the kids.  I've done a much better job with the tools and deescalating things as of late which has been helpful.  If I'm really the trigger for her then I can only hope when we're separated things calm down.

I love my two daughters and I know my uBPDw does as well.  I know my daughters love their mom just as much as they love me.  Any crazy lop sided custody arraignments will be met with anger from the kids.  D16 has asked me before if mom and I split does she get a say in what she wants.  Well as a teen yes she does, and once she has her license well... .  Its D11 that I worry about. 

I am in the fortunate position that my parents can lend me their condo for a few months (about 20 minutes away) while things get settled.  I am willing to let wife and kids stay in the house until the school year ends and sell it in June (better market anyways).  How that works out financially I'll have to let the lawyers figure it out, but my guess is whatever I pay to upkeep the house that is above and beyond what a support payment would be I should get back later in the equity settlement when the house is sold.

That does not mean that I am giving up any custody agreements either.  There is plenty of space and bedrooms at the condo that each girl could have their own spots until the end of school.

What does my gut tell me?  It tells me two things... .First is that my wife is hurting and still clinging onto hope that "someone" will magically make it all better somehow.  Second my gut is telling me that because this "magic" hasn't happened yet my wife is angry and out for blood.  Typical of BPD she wants and believes she can and deserves to have it both ways.

Its going to get ugly, and I just can't understand why anyone willfully wants to do that.  Its only going to hurt the kids.

[livednlearned]

People with BPD have a hard time with trust.

In my experience, it's a BPD thing, not personal, though of course she is convinced you are the source of that distrust. During court, my ex had a psychotic episode. He accused the judge of lying about back surgery to move a court date.

A comment not that different than what happened during our marriage, but in public, in front of a judge. It was a lightbulb moment that for n/BPDx, nothing -- nothing -- could be trusted. Distrust is like breathing air for him. I just happened to be the screen for that looping movie reel. When things moved to court, it was much easier to see the incredible mind-bending powers of that inability to trust. There's more like that, but psychosis is hard to describe in words  

It's harder to depersonalize the distrust when you're the target.

When you depersonalize this, you can start to plan a course of action separate from her.

I thought of it like this: when ex began to dsyregulate, he would hop on his roller coaster and things would get wacky. My job was to stay grounded. Better that he get off his roller coaster than me getting on it.

In a BPD divorce, compromise tends to go out the window because trust is nonexistent. It's more effective to have a clear goal (e.g. 50/50 custody, sole legal decision-making, sell the house, etc.), then talk through strategy with your L (e.g. move to the condo and establish temporary schedule for status quo, sell the house before finalizing the permanent custody order, etc.), and consider which tactics might work best (e.g. deposition, custody evaluation, psychiatric evaluation, etc.).

This board is great for doing some pre-planning when you start to make decisions. For example, tell your L she can grant no extensions without your permission. Stonewalling by the BPD sufferer is often a big part of these divorces.

Another thing to try and work out: consequences for non-compliance. Obstructing orders is also a favorite. So knowing this, you might have your orders say things like, "Mr. ozmatoz will select three realtors, Mrs. ozmatoz will pick one. This must be done by date/year, otherwise Mr. ozmatoz will select the realtor." Then do that for everything you can think of.

Basically, you give her a chance to be agreeable and participate. If she does not manage to do that by such and such a date, then x happens, so that the process moves forward even if she tries to stonewall or obstruct.

Does your L think it's best to serve papers and stay in the house?

What might happen next if you served your wife and then moved to the condo?

After two months in the condo, what would happen?

[ozmatoz]

This board is great for doing some pre-planning when you start to make decisions. For example, tell your L she can grant no extensions without your permission. Stonewalling by the BPD sufferer is often a big part of these divorces.

Another thing to try and work out: consequences for non-compliance. Obstructing orders is also a favorite. So knowing this, you might have your orders say things like, "Mr. ozmatoz will select three realtors, Mrs. ozmatoz will pick one. This must be done by date/year, otherwise Mr. ozmatoz will select the realtor." Then do that for everything you can think of.

Basically, you give her a chance to be agreeable and participate. If she does not manage to do that by such and such a date, then x happens, so that the process moves forward even if she tries to stonewall or obstruct.

Some great pointers here thank you.  I have been working with my lawyer to come up with the "plan" but its mostly on me at this point to direct her on what my wishes are.  Its taken a lot of steps just to get to this point and its slow going but I don't want to do anything rash.
I really like your "realtor example".  I feel operating like this will still allow her to feel like she has some control.  Control has been a HUGE problem for her.  She really can't operate on anybody's terms but her own.  Thank you for putting this into my head!

Does your L think it's best to serve papers and stay in the house?

What might happen next if you served your wife and then moved to the condo?

After two months in the condo, what would happen?

My lawyer thinks its best to stay in the house as long as safely possible.  She does not want to give my wife any extra ammunition.  Extra ammo in a BPD's hands can create chaos as we all know. 

At the very least L believes I should stay at the house until things are filed. We have plenty of documentation of verbal abuse and harassing texts/call patterns, false claim threats, actual DV arrest, and since these will probably increase once it hits the courts L believes I would have enough reason to show the courts that leaving to a temp location was in everyone's best interest and not as a tool to abandon the kids.

If I file and go to the condo, I would quickly have to buy beds and get it set up but I'm not worried about that.  L says if I move out she'd do what she could to get temp orders in quickly. 

L has also suggested that I give strong thought to filing and asking the courts to have her leave the house for the temp basis.  The only problem I have with this is I cannot take the kids full time and stay employed.  Nor could I keep up payments on the house and pay her child support on shared custody (she makes significantly less money than I do).  Because I have a free/low-cost place to stay my wife would get a "win" by staying in the home.  I don't like it, but when looking at the big picture, long term this makes the most financial sense and most "scheduling" sense in regards to keeping the kids lives as normal as can be.

uBPDw and I had a big D talk last night and when I started grilling her about her lawyer and how she wanted me to proceed (she does not know I have retained), she started back tracking a ton of statements.  "I never said this... .I never said that... .you're only assuming... .you can make your decisions based on what you believe, but you'll have to live with it... ."  Sounds to me like she's trying to get the FOG to roll back in, or hide behind some statements so I look like the bad guy by being the one to actually file.

Thank you so much for replying, I have been feeling pretty lost again.

Be well,
-Oz

[DaddyBear77]

ozmatoz, I just wanted to say that reading your story is almost literally word for word what I'm going through right now. A week ago I managed to move down into the finished basement and just last night I was asked "are you going to move out and find an apartment like you promised?" - my reply was exactly the same as yours - "Not without a custody agreement"

I just have one quick thing to share... .

Is it just that she wants to see me suffer?

I don't think this is the case. I think that in most cases where we've had a long term relationship and marriage, they "loved" us as much as we loved them. In the end, I don't think it's really about seeing us suffer, and if we DO suffer, they feel bad.

But it's a battle to them as much as it is to us - in some ways, it's this primal battle for survival (financially) and protection of their young. So it DOES have a really high potential to get ugly, for sure. And we need to be prepared to fight for what is important to us, too. It's our financial life and they are our kids and our responsibility to keep both safe and protected. Finding a way to do all that with love and compassion is the really hard part. I truly get that, and it's something I'm struggling with now too.

I look forward to following your progress here, ozmatoz  

[ozmatoz]

ozmatoz, I just wanted to say that reading your story is almost literally word for word what I'm going through right now. A week ago I managed to move down into the finished basement and just last night I was asked "are you going to move out and find an apartment like you promised?" - my reply was exactly the same as yours - "Not without a custody agreement"

DaddyBear77, I've been following your posts as well, A LOT of similarities.  Even though it seems like she's backing of the D threats a bit, its still there front and center.  I can't see a way to bring anything back to life in this marriage and honestly think we'll both be better off going in different directions, but I can't let the split happen the way "she believes it should go".  Its not founded in any rational thought, any long term planning and when she says "its for the girls" I can poke so many holes in her statements its scary.

You're not alone, we'll get through this.

-Oz

[livednlearned]

One thing, too, about your exit strategy.

I wish I had put more thought into what I would say about the divorce to my son. We left abruptly, although I had been planning for a year. The exit date came about a week earlier than planned.

I wish I had asked then S11 if he had any questions for me. Such a simple thing, and I didn't think to do it.

Kids tend to care about themselves in ways we forget are important. S11 was worried he would have to carry his underwear in his backpack (like a kid at school did). He wasn't sure what would happen to his toys, if he would need two toothbrushes, where would his new bus stop be. He was worried what other kids would say, where he would live.

I did some things right, but I could've done better.

It's also helpful to get feedback from friends here about what to say, knowing that there will likely be a spike in parental alienation behaviors. There are some good books, too, about how to raise emotionally resilient kids when one parent has BPD. These parenting/communication skills aren't intuitive and must be learned.

It might really help if D11 is in counseling. Is that a possibility? (if it's not already happening?)

[kells76]

Hey ozmatoz,

I've read some of your story, but could you please remind me -- do you have family in town? I was wondering about this:

The only problem I have with this is I cannot take the kids full time and stay employed.

What would it be like if you leaned on some family and/or friends for kid help when you're at work? You might have thought about that already, but if not, don't forget that you can ask for help with child care. It wouldn't have to be permanent, but enough to help things get settled. If you're involved with a church or religious group, maybe they can help out -- or if your kids have friends they're comfortable with, could you reach out to their parents for a hand with school pickups/dropoffs?

There's so much you're trying to figure out, so hopefully this helps you come up with some out-of-the-box ideas.

Best,

kells76

[ForeverDad]

A house can be a home but another house or apartment can also become home.  After all, millions of people move every years.  With respect to the children, home is wherever they live, not a specific building.  Your children will soon be adults, the youngest in about 6 years, all of them probably moving out at some future time.  Many in divorce incorrectly believe that a specific house is what provides stability, then they hold onto a house (1) that may not be affordable after a divorce or financial downturn or (2) may have accumulated years of bad memories.

In a divorce there are two homes, one where you live and one where the other parent lives.  If it is not practical or beneficial to hold onto the existing home then don't let anyone guilt you about it.

[ozmatoz]

ForeverDad, there are a lot of things we fought to get into our new home and waited through a lot to get it done (long story) so now that we're in and the girls are enjoying it, I do feel bad.  They will lose out on things we built for them and family.  The pool, jacuzzi tub, game room, place to ride bikes...   Yes D16 will probably be ok as she just wants to make sure she has her own space.  D11 will take it very hard and not understand.  There is no way financially to make the new house work.  There is just too much equity I'd have to buy out from her.  It would push me beyond anything possible.

kells76, I don't have any family in town.  The best I have is my mother who comes already 1 or 2 days a week, but she has retired to their lake house in another state and its about 45 min drive one way.  My dad is finishing out work staying part time in their condo (the one open to me) thats about 20 minutes away but he works more than full time still.  Other than that trying to rely on friends schedules they are all insane with their own kids.  Throw into the mix that D11 has some medical issues, we really can only rely on each other or my parents.  It is a very difficult situation.

livenlearned,  I have a feeling that whatever plans I can come up with will get tossed out the window by her erratic behavior.  She is now stating she feels the need to "protect herself"... .whatever that means I have no idea.  I will keep in mind your suggestion about asking them about their questions.  We've sort of talked to them before when I stayed at my parents place for a few weeks, but it was so open ended and lop sided that its not a good indicator of how things will go.  D11 will be very upset no doubt.  D16 has a great T in town that D11 has met, but is pushing back on seeing because she doesnt do well with "new" or "changes".  D16 and I have come up with a plan to have D16 attend with D11 a few times without D11 really knowing its about her.  Their T was a former elementary art teacher and has an entire "art class" set up for her younger patients.  D11 loves to to paint so we're going to find a way to ease her into it.

Things are getting pretty hot and heavy at home and uBPDw is trying to force me to move out of the house this weekend... .  I have a feeling she's going to force me to file a complaint against her to counteract all of these threats.

She says she wants to be happy and ready to move on... .why can't she?

[I_Am_The_Fire]

In regards to the kids, would it be feasible to look into hiring a part time nanny to help (something like care dot com)? I don't have a lot of money and I was able to find someone to drive my kids to and from school each day for a decent price. I was surprised I could afford it. Also, have you called the schools for ideas? They may know of some options.

My ex got erratic during the divorce. It was like watching one of those small rubber balls bounce all over the place: you don't know where it's going to go next and you stay out of its way hoping it doesn't smack you upside the head. I learned that I had to do what I felt I had to do for my sake and the kids' sake. It was hard but I had to stop worrying so much about what he may or may not do. It was driving me crazy and I was a mess. My anxiety was through the roof and I wasn't sleeping well. With my therapist's help, I thought of the worst case scenario and planned on what I'd do if it ever happened. It helped. Maybe try to focus more on your mental, emotional, physical health as well as your kids. You can only do so much.

The realtor idea is a great one, IMO. Give her options that you can live with in addition to a time frame and what you will do if she doesn't respond or pick one of the options. That seemed to help me too. My attorney worked with his attorney to make it seem like he was taking me to the cleaners and "winning" everything (except the house which we sold and split the money 50/50).

In reality, I think my divorce settlement was pretty fair overall. I had to figure out what meant the most to me in regards to the kids and other stuff I could live with. I knew I wouldn't be able to get sole custody because I didn't have proof of neglect or abuse. So I went for 50/50 with some stipulations such as he had to get his own place within a certain time frame and have the kids for a certain number of overnights to prove he was doing his parenting time. In my case it seemed like he didn't want to have the kids. He admitted with the help of the divorce counselor that he was terrified of being a single parent. I think that he was telling the truth there and that was part of why he was "freaking out" with the divorce. The thing is he has family in town to help him out. I didn't. So maybe try to think of arrangements you could live with that may be beneficial for everyone., like what do you envision as being the best case scenario or maybe even something that could work for you and for her and maybe go from there?

I can understand about the house situation. I had to let go of a lot of things and remind myself that they're material things that can be replaced down the road. Our well-being is more important. Having said that, if there is anything in the house that is important to you, you may want to put it somewhere safe. I slowly removed things from the house that I didn't want him to take or destroy that were mine like my deceased grandmother's wedding ring, my family picture albums from when I was a child, things like that that I can't replace. I was glad I did that.

After he had moved out per temporary orders, he went into the house without any discussion (before I had changed the locks) and he took the dishes, several of the small kitchen appliances, the bed and several other things. It would have really been nice if he had said something beforehand instead of me coming home to find a lot of things missing. He was living with his family and didn't need those things just yet. He didn't even get his own place until the final orders (6 months later) specified he had a certain time frame to get his own place and to commit to the agreed upon parenting time or it would default to visitation every other weekend and he would have to pay me over $1000 per month in child support and I wouldn't pay him one dime. That seemed to motivate him and he got his own place after we divorced.

Our realtor gave me a bed she was planning to get rid and let me keep it. That was really nice of her. In the process of moving everything out of the house when we sold it, he destroyed the brand new printer I left for him and other things. Basically, I had learned the hard way to not trust him. He took what he wanted and destroyed what he didn't want. There were a lot of times during the divorce and after that seemed like he was trying to punish me for divorcing him. His abuse got worse. During one of his rages, he even told me that he was capable of much worse and that he was holding himself back. Yeah, that was terrifying. He flat out told me he would never help me with the kids because he wanted me to know what it would be like as a single mother and that I would regret divorcing him and that I would come crawling back to him. That didn't bother me because he rarely helped with them before the divorce anyway. Because of all that, I learned to take care of myself and the kids better. I stopped trusting anything he said and tried to prepare myself as best as I could for what he may do without driving myself crazy. It's a hard thing to balance.

She says she wants to be happy and ready to move on... .why can't she?

Maybe she doesn't know how to. Maybe she is scared and is behaving the way she is because she's scared. I'm not making excuses for what she's done or said. She may not know how to deal with it like a non-BPD would. Like my ex, she probably reacts in the moment and doesn't really think things through like natural consequences of her current actions.