Divorced Dads (and moms), have you found happiness?

[ozmatoz]

Really struggling today, this may not be the right board but I'm looking for the already divorced side of the picture.  As we all know the detachment process coinciding with the divorce process, coinciding with BPD behaviors really keeps your head full.

At the brink, even though she has also pushed and asked for it, her behavior over the last few days suggests she thinks "things are ok at the moment".  We all know full well the cycle and that it will just repeat with anger and rage as soon as something doesn't go her way.

I've been sure and really close to pulling the trigger plenty of times before.  I know in my heart I can't parent the way I want to, I know I can't have a "realistic" relationship that I need with this women, I know I'm doing my kids a disservice by living in such a situation.

Its going to be hell on me and the kids and I really don't think uBPDw knows how hard it will be for her.  Perhaps this is my own guilt eating away at me.

Hoping to hear some positive stories on finding happiness after the dust settles.  I'm having a hard time looking down the road and staying the course.

Thanks,
-Oz

[livednlearned]

hey ozmatoz,

It's been 8 years since I walked out of my home and away from my marriage. The first two years were some of the most painful, and maybe related, those were also the years l grew the most. I barely recognize myself from those days.

There is an article on the site that says it can take 4-8 years to recover emotionally, psychologically, and financially from a divorce. The more high-conflict the marriage and divorce, the longer it takes to recover.

Those estimates were surprisingly accurate for me. My ex was a former trial attorney and particularly litigious so my legal expenses were on the higher side of high. I am finally done paying off my legal debts and am engaged to a great guy. It's so easy being with him, he's safe and loving and fun to be with, and I can even socialize outside the home with him I never knew I could feel this way in a relationship.

I did do a ton of work on myself to get here. By the time I started dating (roughly two years out), I was very content with who I was, and put a lot of effort into mourning my unmet needs and healing old hurts. That part was pretty rough and I wandered around inside my own wilderness feeling very down and lousy for the better part of two years. It actually gave me empathy and compassion for what people with BPD are so afraid to feel -- facing my own loneliness felt like confronting annihilation.

So much of that psychological/philosophical/spiritual and poetic writing makes sense to me now that I've dipped a big toe in it. Focusing on myself made things much easier when I met my current SO because I really knew who I was, knew how to express my feelings in a healthy way, and had good boundaries and communication skills for when I was right and he wasn't  

The one takeaway that might apply to your situation -- when you live apart, your kids get at least a short break. They have a place to let their nervous systems recover   and if you work the skills that build emotional resilience, they get a taste of what that feels like. I will never forget the feeling of peace I felt walking into my own apartment after leaving my ex. I could open the door and just walk into the room, put my stuff down, and breathe. No one shouting at me, accusing me of having an affair, no egg shells, no knot in my stomach, no feeling of dread, just me and sweet safety and peace    One day my son and I were walking into the apartment together -- we had no furniture except for his bed and a futon -- and we both sighed out loud. He gave me a big hug, we didn't even need to talk. There is nothing like feeling safe.

It wasn't quite as easy for S16, and part of that is due to my son's emotional sensitivities. He is wired like his dad, and is still struggling, although if we all still lived together, I shudder to think of what things would be like.

You will probably hear few stories of regret on this board in particular, although no easy stories, to be sure.

It's tough what we go through.

I'm glad you reached out.

Hang in there.

[Anamika]

Here is what I had trouble with.  I had set so many landmines around me for protection it was hard to enter into a new relationship.  You have built walls to protect you and your children and don't even know it until someone new hits one and they say, what was that!  I have to tell myself my fiance is not my ex and does not have the same intentions.  When she asks about a friend that is a female it's conversation not accusations. 

Also you want to get the kids a counselor to help them understand healthy boundaries they can setup to deal with Mom.  If you are going to get a divorce setup a documentation schedule now and document everything.  Especially the children's mood and body language around Mom.  Save every text and document every phone call.  There are several programs you can buy to download your text history into a PDF for court.

Above all do things for you. It's okay to be happy.  Happiness is a choice.   

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Hey oz, I wish you the best in this and you will always have someone on this board to talk/vent/rant/discuss with. You aren't alone.

I'm coming up on two years now post-divorce. As I've written before, my divorce was a nightmare. I made it through, though. I wanted to give up many times but I'm very glad I didn't give up. I have never been happier in my entire life than I am right now.

Similar to what livednlearned wrote, I now have an actual "home" not just a house or apartment. I love going home where I can breathe, relax, and recharge.  It's a very light and positive place with no looming cloud of negativity. My ex has never set foot in this place and chances are that I will never let him in. I lost all trust in him these last few years. I have my own money that I can spend as I see fit without having to justify anything to anyone. The first time I realized I had financial independence from him (I set up my own separate bank account), I sobbed. That first taste of freedom was exhilarating. I can also come and go as I please now without getting interrogated. No more walking on eggshells. No more high levels of anxiety or fear. I sleep better too. It took awhile to get there, though. I kept waiting for him to break down my door and all kinds of horrible things. Those things never happened in my new place and I feel I can finally relax now - really relax.

I'm with the love of my life. Someone who is safe. Someone who loves me for who I am - warts and all. Someone who has been there for me and lets me be me. For the first time in my life, I'm in a healthy, normal, loving adult relationship. The difference between him and my ex is like day and night. He's my best friend.

I still go to trauma therapy and highly recommend keeping up with therapy post-divorce to help you adjust. Being able to take care of myself and recharge, made me a better person and mother. I still get triggered every so often but those times are becoming less and less as I work through them with my therapist.

The kids seem much happier when they're with me and my boyfriend\fiance. I've had several people tell me this. It was really rough for them at first but they've adjusted. My kids now have a safe haven where they can find peace, relax, and recharge as well.

I wish I could say my ex has gotten better. He hasn't. He has periods when we can have civil discussions about the kids. Every so often something triggers him and he rages at me for days with every single possible imagined sin of mine he can think of. Thankfully for me, he does it in writing in one of those online parenting communication applications - one that is admissible in court if it comes to that. I highly recommend doing something like that - getting signed up for a parenting communication site/application. The one we use doesn't allow any edits or deletions. Once you post something, it's there and you can't remove it. Its great for documenting, IMO.

It's become more and more apparent to me that my ex is living in the past and he can't seem to move forward with his life. He blames me for pretty much everything that has gone wrong in his life these last twenty or so years. He cycles and it's become fairly predictable when he's going to fly into a rage.  I've learned to go "gray rock" as much as I possible can in writing. I've also learned to just write something as simple as "I disagree with what you wrote" and leave it at that. If I don't, he assumes I agree with what he is writing and 9 times out of 10, I disagree. His abuse has gotten worse but at least it's now in writing for the court to see if we end up back in court. 

*hugs* Hang in there.

[ozmatoz]

Thank you everyone.  Seriously I'm not sure where I'd be without this place when the going gets really tough.
Although as the day has worn on she has given me reminders of why I'm headed towards where I am, but I know when I get home it gets really hard.  I feel very attached to what "life should be" even though its not.

livednlearned, question about the first few years.  You say you can barely recognize yourself.  Looking back, how much detaching had you done prior to the divorce?  I ask because through T I have realized that 3 years ago when my uBPDw asked for a divorce and subsequently had a year long affair I started (even though I didn't recognize it) detaching.  I did a lot of terrible enabling doormat type behaviors because I was thickly stuck in the FOG and over time I just started giving up.  No matter how much I gave, no matter how much of her terrible behavior I took the blame for, nothing seemed to work.  Yes there were times when it was better, but looking back I see that it was better for her, not me.  At the time I may have felt it was better for me but thats because it was actually just "less bad"... .  There have been times when I have felt really well prepared and put together, ready to take this step, excited to map out some new territory for myself and the times I had the kids.  I have often felt that I just need to break away and I will be ok, I generally feel strong.  This last week has seen me take a step back and I'm trying to gauge how ready I still am.  I don't want to be one of those regret stories.  I am thrilled to hear you have your safe space and are able to keep it that way.

Anamika, My oldest D16 is in counseling and we are trying to ease D11 into it.  They both certainly need it.  I try to document, I'm burning the candle on both ends and it is really tough to keep up with it.  Happiness is a choice and I just wish uBPDw could understand that too.  I'm happy that you have been able to move on.

I_Am_The_Fire, thank you for your continued support.  It does sound like you went through a really tough time, and its good to hear the truth of what may lay ahead.  Thank you for sharing.  I too have been looking forward to my own place, even if its just an apartment at first.  I love a good home life and hope that someday I will be back there with someone that I can actually talk to and can enjoy life with all the ups and downs that come with it.  I will surely stay in therapy and I am by no means fooled by thinking the divorce will keep her rages away from me.  Right now, she has me running ragged because I am trying to keep myself above water.  I feel like once there are "legal" separations and "legally" enforceable actions I can look at the "raging fires" and realize I'm under no obligation to help and I legally can ignore a good chunk of her nonsense.  I've looked into the parenting apps for scheduling, I will take a closer look at the communication portion, thank you for the heads up.  "Someone who loves you for you" what a beautiful thing to look forward to.

thank you all
-Oz

[livednlearned]

livednlearned, question about the first few years.  You say you can barely recognize yourself.  Looking back, how much detaching had you done prior to the divorce?

I started to feel deeply disillusioned about 2 years before divorce. It was complicated, like these things are, by wanting desperately to keep our family together. So I simultaneously tried to fix him and detach from him, which in retrospect was pretty nutty. I don't fault myself for wanting to hold our family together, and to want the best for my ex, but knowing what I know now, the codependent force was strong with me. I thought I had a lot of control over the relationship. And it seems downright strange to me now, that I thought he had so much control over me. He had almost none. All of that control was in my head, I just gave it to him and then blamed him for using it.

This article on the emotional, psychological stages of divorce might help locate where you're at. I went through these stages pretty much as described below. Disillusionment - 2 years before verbalizing. Expressing dissatisfaction - 1 year before invoking legal. Because he was a trial attorney, I started to gather information on the legal process pretty early, mostly to fact check some of his threats.


I.   DISILLUSIONMENT OF ONE PARTY (sometimes 1-2 years before verbalized)

A.   Vague feelings of discontentment, arguments, stored resentments, breaches of trust
B.   Problems are real but unacknowledged
C.   Greater distance; lack of mutuality
D.   Confidential, fantasy, consideration of pros and cons of divorce
E.   Development of strategy for separation
F.   Feelings: fear, denial, anxiety, guilt, love, anger, depression, grief

II.   EXPRESSING DISSATISFACTION (8-12 months before invoking legal process)

A.   Expressing discontent or ambivalence to other party
B.   Marital counseling, or
C.   Possible honeymoon phase (one last try)
D.   Feelings: relief (that it's out in the open), tension, emotional roller coaster, guilt, anguish, doubt, grief

III.   DECIDING TO DIVORCE (6-12 months before invoking legal process)

A.   Creating emotional distance (i.e., disparaging the other person/situation in order to leave it)
B.   Seldom reversible (because it's been considered for awhile)
C.   Likely for an affair to occur
D.   Other person just begins Stage I (considering divorce) and feels denial, depressed, rejected, low self-esteem, anger
E.   Both parties feel victimized by the other
F.   Feelings: anger, resentment, sadness, guilt, anxiety for the family, the future, impatience with other, needy

IV.   ACTING ON DECISION (beginning the legal process)

A.   Physical separation
B.   Emotional separation (complicated by emotional flareups)
C.   Creating redefinition (self orientation)
D.   Going public with the decision
E.   Setting the tone for the divorce process (getting legal advice and setting legal precedent: children, support, home)
F.   Choosing sides and divided loyalties of friends and families
G.   Usually when the children find out (they may feel responsible, behave in ways to make parents interact)
H.   Feelings: traumatized, panic, fear, shame, guilt, blame, histrionics

V.   GROWING ACCEPTANCE (during the legal process or after)

A.   Adjustments: physical, emotional
B.   Accepting that the marriage wasn't happy or fulfilling
C.   Regaining a sense of power and control, creating a plan for the future, creating a new identity, discovering new talents

VI.   NEW BEGINNINGS (completing the legal process to four years after)

A.   Parties have moved beyond the blame and anger to forgiveness, new respect, new roles
B.   Experiences: insight, acceptance, integrity.

This last week has seen me take a step back and I'm trying to gauge how ready I still am.

That sounds really normal, ozmatoz. The path I took was definitely not linear, so pauses and side loops sounds about right to me. You might be putting some important emotional scaffolding in place when you aren't even aware. Just small breakthroughs initiated in your head, worked out in your heart. Reaching out to friends like you're doing here, preparing your heart for such a big change. You are probably running checklists to see if you feel emotionally ready. That last flying leap is a doozy so you are in precaution mode, making sure your parachute is in tip top shape  

I was emotionally a child when I was married. My ex was too. His behavior was worse than mine, objectively speaking, but we were both very stunted emotionally. When I moved out, my outer adult self enjoyed the safety and peace of living fear-free, but there was an emotional aftershock to my child self, if that makes sense. Coming to terms with being alone, being responsible for my own happiness, parenting myself for the first time, that part was gut-wrenching. Someone once told me to lean into the pain and I'm telling you, if I leaned any harder I would've fallen right over. I think when we prepare for divorce, there is part of our emotional "self" that is prepping harder than it ever has, to confront something that maybe didn't quite finish in our early development, in our families of origin. What you do with that finishing process probably dictates what your post-divorce life is like.

For me, the hardest part of healing came when someone offered me a generous amount of money, no strings attached, because she loved and cared for me. To accept the gift, I had to acknowledge that I was lovable and worthy, and even dependent. I had to admit that I wasn't as strong as I thought I was. It was that part of post-divorce recovery that cracked me open like a nut. Someone loving me unconditionally. More terrifying than anything else I had ever felt. I guess you could call it genuine vulnerability.

That's the part that's on you. At some point, the abuse drops away and you feel safe again, and then you are there with just yourself, alone. And you figure out whether you can learn to feel comfortable with something so vulnerable as feeling ok with yourself.

Be gentle with yourself  

You're taking care of you, and it's an important job.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Oz, as a guy, like probably hundreds who read here or will read here, I get what you're saying.  I have been across the spectrum on letting go and acceptance, or just keeping my head down and staying married as a contract, and to be with the kids. 

It reminds me vividly of the saying "the only thing worse than being married to a woman with BPD is being divorced from a woman with BPD."  The threat of mom getting the kids in a custody issue, scares me into staying married.

It's okay to struggle.  I think it's okay to go back and forth from that burning feeling inside that says "this is it, I'm getting divorced" to the resigned gloom of just keeping the peace.  Or taking a little happiness that you get from being with the kids when their mom's gone, and stretching those points of light like one would stretch rations on a lifeboat after a shipwreck with an uncertain rescue.

We can do this.  Take care of yourself first of all.

[flourdust]

It reminds me vividly of the saying "the only thing worse than being married to a woman with BPD is being divorced from a woman with BPD."  The threat of mom getting the kids in a custody issue, scares me into staying married.

Who says this?

Seriously, though, it's poppycock. Being divorced (with kids) means that the BPD-style conflict is contained to custody issues, as opposed to potentially taking over all aspects of your life. No, that part is not fun, but the key word is "contained" ... .which means you can keep it from spreading to your work, your home life, and your time with the kids. Those are significant upsides and contribute a lot to my happiness and my self-confidence as an effective parent.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Flourdust.  Message received well.  Thanks. I'll try to force this new idea into my thinking.  
I have realized on many occasions how much of my behavior is based on fear.  Which is hard for an apparently strong man to accept.

[ozmatoz]

Livednlearned, thank you for the article.  I think both my wife and I have both ping-ponged up and down that list at various times.

Firmly past stage III and floating around stage IV with the lawyer right now.  Even on a day like today Valentine's day it seems like my wife is expecting some sort of miracle... well its not possible.  Then she flipped back to telling me how bad I am.  You would think this is just more reminders that its time to go.
Maybe its my own guilt knowing I couldn't help her, I couldn't lead her to the help she needs.  I wonder if knowing what I know about BPD now I feel guilty that I couldn't get the tools right often enough.  Maybe its some shame knowing that quite possibly I'm not emotionally intelligent enough to make the tools work properly.  I keep reminding myself that she's going to get a hefty check from me every month, she'll be fine... yet I don't know if I'm detached enough to be able to see her struggle without trying to rescue.  If she struggles, my kids are affected.  She is going to continue to blame me. Even though I sit here and realize I don't want to hate this holiday and I don't want to ruin another summer, I don't know if I can stomach telling the lawyer to let the papers fly.  I'm so afraid of regretting this decision, I'm being honest with myself knowing that regret is something I don't handle well.

SamwizeGamgee/Flourdust  Thank you for looking at both sides of this. 

Sam, on one side, yes, I agree maybe I could find a way to make it through for another 7 years... .maybe.  uBPDw doesn't leave often and my oldest D16 is gone in 1.5 years.  As D11 grows up and is involved in more stuff there is less and less of those mom is gone moments.  I'm not sure what BPD type she fits into or if its just a general BPD thing she firmly believes we are all "one" that doing anything alone is bad (except for her, she's allowed to).  Any time its just me and the girls or me and one of the girls its a huge problem.  I'm heading to DC with D16 for an anime convention for a few days (it was her xmas present).  Instead of saying "have fun" it's how dare you exclude the rest of us, how dare you exclude your other daughter, its WRONG"  Unfortunately for me there really is no keeping the peace.  I look back on some "family" events over the last year that uBPDw says she had fun and they were hell for me.  So confusing.

Flourdust, thank you for the opposing view, I wish I could have the mental strength and character to feel and stick to that mindset.  I just have a hard time trying to figure out how to contain it to just a custody and finance issue.  uBPDw rips through and taints every aspect of my life now on a daily basis, I can't see her not trying to find some way to sink me.  I'm sure with the lawyers and courts I can deflect some of her attacks but I know some of them will get past the defenses and hit.  Again its my fear,  I've seen her raged eyes telling me she'll take me down and ruin me, there was truth in those eyes... .scary.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Oz, we are very much beating the same path into the ground.  I've floated up and down the list too. 
I feel stuck not wanting to go back into a loving and therefore risky relationship with my wife, and still not wanting to go all-out divorce battle either.

[ozmatoz]

Oz, we are very much beating the same path into the ground.  I've floated up and down the list too. 
I feel stuck not wanting to go back into a loving and therefore risky relationship with my wife, and still not wanting to go all-out divorce battle either.

Exactly.  One of the worst parts of this is the realization that while uBPDw can flip to "white" and feel everything is great, I know I can't forget all of the hurt and damage she has caused.  I don't want to go back into a relationship with that much damage, I've seen her at her worst (so far) and know I could never handle it again.  Yet I know the divorce battle will without a doubt become horrible. 

I'm afraid too.  I also have a hard time feeling like I could live with myself if I "have her served" and it has protections built into it to keep her away from my office and harassing me through texts and phone calls.  I just wish she could also realize her unhappiness and just agree to split it all, be over quick and move on.

[Torched]

Oz,

I’m a divorced dad.  It was an extremely difficult decision for me and the path to the final (second) divorce decision took five years total.  I understand SamWize’s fear all too well, and the decision to go through with the divorce was extremely frightening in actual practice.

That said, I went into a day-by-day mode.  Just little steps, being kind to myself.  I made it through a difficult divorce, guilt, shame, and being extraordinarily fearful about losing my close relationship with my children.

I also completely agree with the comments above about redefining my life in a safe home... .my own home... .where I enter and find that there is no FOG, no tension, just me and my own inner calm.  I remarked recently to a friend that I am shocked one year after my divorce that I “miss” the first six months after the divorce when I was living in a crappy rental (I had sold my very expensive and large marital home upon divorcing).  I look back at those first six months spent by myself 50% of the time and with my kids the other 50% as... .wonderful.

I’ve maintained a relationship with a wonderful woman who values me in a “normal” way and respects my boundaries and allows me to practice setting them.

In short, I found happiness pretty quickly.  Make no mistake however, it is a very very difficult first year due to the unknown.

[livednlearned]

I just wish she could also realize her unhappiness and just agree to split it all, be over quick and move on.

Except with BPD, feeling miserable is often preferable to feeling nothing. And feeling nothing might happen if the misery went away. Better to cling to the misery.

I'm afraid too.  I also have a hard time feeling like I could live with myself if I "have her served" and it has protections built into it to keep her away from my office and harassing me through texts and phone calls.

If you are not used to caring about yourself, it can feel scary. You put yourself out there where others can see you making an effort to love yourself, and who knows what could happen. Someone might slam your door shut.

Worse is when you shut it on yourself. 

It can take heroic effort to shake things up. Some of us need momentum. A little bit of terror did the trick for me.

However it happens for you, go all in. Decide that you're worth it.

Might as well make it count

[ozmatoz]

Torched, thank you for replying.  I've been detaching for a long time (almost 4 years now) since the first time she asked for a divorce followed shortly by her affair.  During that 4 years the relationship has come and gone and we too built a beautiful (and probably too expensive) home.

Honestly, I'm looking forward to having my own place, even if its small.  D16 is practically begging to have a place where she can get away even if its only 50% of the time.  I've worked through most of the guilt and shame (I know not all of it) and mostly think I have the sadness to still work through.  I'm sad that it has to come to this, but as I approach my 40th I realize I have SO much life left to live and I have so much love that I hope to give and receive somewhere in my future.  I look forward to normal.

I'm hoping that since I've been detaching for so long that I come out of this pretty strong and am already on my way to recovery.  I'm happy to hear where you are and that you have found some peace and happiness!

livednlearned, I see your point about clinging to misery.  The universe may have given me a (strange) gift.  After a lengthy period of no contact her old affair partner reached out to her several times over the last couple of weeks.  I know she had fairly strong feelings for him and always questioned if they had gone away... .  She came into my room the other night with what seemed like a "last shot" to recycle telling me she was lonely and that her affair partner has reached out and she has a response written but doesn't want to send it... .she's lonely, come be with her... .  I turned the chance down, I am no longer interested in recycles and frankly if he's back in the picture (even though he's not really a bad guy) I know its just going to hang there like dead weight.  After I turned her down she told me that I had made my choice and now have to live with it.  She has "sent" her response and says shes reaching back to the one who reached for her and that person wasn't me.  My point is, perhaps (hopefully) she feels she has a soft place to land, or at least someone else to focus her energy on... .bizarre I know, but the fact that I look at this situation with hope only solidifies for me how done I am with our r/s.

I am worth it, so are my kids.  Just wish the grueling process wasn't so... .well grueling!

I feel like I have lost time to make up and don't want to waste any more of this precious short life we have.

-Oz

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Hey oz,

I feel like I have lost time to make up and don't want to waste any more of this precious short life we have.

I totally get that. I'm happy you have this to look forward to.

I find it really interesting that your wife told you her affair partner has reached out to her and she's reaching back. I wonder if he really did reach out to her or if she was trying to make you jealous or something. I find it interesting because I went through something similar, in a way.

Many years before my divorce (around 10 years ago), my now-ex told me one of his co-workers wanted to have an affair with him. He actually told me he was going to take her up on her offer but she changed her mind. Talk about a mind-f*** at the time. Looking back I think he was trying to make me jealous. The odd thing is, it didn't. It didn't bother me except that he says he would have done it if she hadn't changed her mind. I should have paid more attention to that feeling at the time. Hindsight, right? Anyway, we stayed married and tried to make things work. We had a small baby at the time (our oldest).
 
Right before I filed, my ex told me he was still in love with his fiancee from over twenty years ago. I knew they had recently been in touch which didn't bother me. I met her once (years ago) and she seemed nice. I actually hoped he would leave me for someone before I filed. He also claimed he had an online affair with someone for an entire year before divorce was even mentioned. He never did hook up with either of them that I know of. I think he was trying to make me jealous but it didn't work this time either. It was another sign for me that I was completely done with him and the marriage.

If your wife does hook up with this guy, I hate to say it but it may make the divorce a bit easier in a way. She would have someone "on her side" so to speak. He may help calm her down? I don't know. Just thinking out loud here.

I noticed after my divorce that whenever my ex was dating someone, he was much nicer to me and the kids. It's like he was trying to be "father of the year" which was great for the kids in a way. We would actually have decent civil conversations. Gone was the rage. Gone was the verbal and emotional abuse. For a brief moment, I had thought and hoped he had come to terms with the divorce and was able to move on with his life. I briefly even thought we could become friends. The thing is those relationships didn't last and he would go back to raging and paining me black. There is no way now we could ever become friends. He's said and done too many awful things to me since then.

Having said all that, maybe there is hope your divorce will go smoother if she's seeing someone, as hard as that may be to come to grips with or not. It sounds like you are hoping she does have someone to help her. I get it.

[ozmatoz]

I find it really interesting that your wife told you her affair partner has reached out to her and she's reaching back. I wonder if he really did reach out to her or if she was trying to make you jealous or something. I find it interesting because I went through something similar, in a way.

She actually sent me a screen shot of his email reaching out asking her if she was happy, or at least happier along with a link to a song that made him think of her... .  She has in the past used him to make me jealous, but this time its for real.  Whether or not she actually replied back to him I don't know.  It is strange but I hope she does find someone that can help her through this because its certainly not me. 

Sounds like your ex liked the mind F game, its so cruel and I'm sorry you had to experience it.  I find it interesting that your ex became a better father for a time being, maybe to impress whatever his current love interest was?  I guess take it when its there and prepare for when its not. 

Thank you for sharing your stories with us.
-Oz

[Panda39]

Divorced Dads (and moms), have you found happiness?

I'm coming at this from a different perspective, I am the (relatively... .has it been seven years already?) new love in my SO's life.  He has an uBPDxw. 

We met several months into he separation and I'm not gonna lie his 2 year divorce was tough. He is a nerdy guy and he had a mantra as he pushed through his divorce it was... ."Boldly Go". 

He's been out of his marriage for 8 years now and last night he bought a new mattress.  We had a whole conversation about the mattress that was thrown away.  You see that mattress was his first piece of furniture in his "own" apartment when he left his marriage.  He talked about buying it, picking out the bedding that he liked and wanted, he talked about dressing out the bed and laying on it for the first time and feeling free.

All of the bad stuff and there was plenty... .kids spying for their mother, parental alienation, false allegations of abuse,neglect by his ex regarding their daughters, the ex's evictions etc.

All of those things were punctuated with fantastic, lovely, ordinary things like having his own apartment that was clean (his ex could be described as a hoarder). Having control of his money and knowing where it was spent and how much was left each month. Getting a new job that allowed him to telecommute so he was home and available to his daughters.  He had amazing support financially and emotionally from his FOO.  He could get in his car and go where he wanted when he wanted.  Several months into his separation he met a cute 47 year old "Panda"  who thought he was "the cat's meow".  Our first date was supposed to be lunch... .I was following all the on line dating "rules" as defined by my younger friends, because I had not been on any kind of date since the 90's when Madonna was big and so was my hair! Our lunch date turned into an all day 11 hour date... .yes I can hear you all going Wow falling for each other so quickly it's a  .  Sometimes you just have to go with your feelings and take a chance    That 11 hour date has lasted seven plus years.

My SO's daughters both voted with their feet 3 years ago to live with their dad full-time, his older daughter will graduate college next year and his younger daughter will graduate High School next year as well.  D21 is no contact with her mother and D17 is low contact.

My SO's ex is living in a hotel, we assume her family is paying for it as we are not aware of her having a job.  She is 99.9% out of the picture.

Life is good, stable, happy, the girls needs are being met, we have a great relationship going... .we are a team.

No it might not be easy leaving a marriage to a BPD spouse, but I believe it can be worth it for all involved.

Panda39

[ozmatoz]

Panda, thank you for telling it from the other side.  One of the things that is brutal is wondering if there is anyone out there willing to love me enough to put up with BPD "baggage" that will always be there.  Of course falling in love quickly is a  but it doesn't mean 100% that its wrong.  You found each other at the right time in your lives and it works.  Stories like yours give me hope.  I know I have so much love to give and really look forward to an open honest and mutually beneficial relationship with someone.

I think the worst part of this is when she finally realizes its real.  Its been a long time coming but in the last year its been really bad. She's been screaming at me to leave, divorce, sell the house... .blah blah blah non-stop.  I guess its the BPD way, but its certainly not my way to save a marriage.

Thank you for replying 

-Oz

[livednlearned]

I think the worst part of this is when she finally realizes its real. 

I participated in a research study, a program for family members of anxious relatives, to help me better support my son.

One thing I learned that really struck me, is this idea that people with extreme anxiety are not fragile.

They are actually much more capable of handling high levels of anxiety than someone who has less anxiety. You may have anxiety, but chances are yours is less than hers, given the nature of BPD pathology.

You may feel a lot of anxiety about your wife's anxiety, but your distress about your own anxiety (and the anxiety you feel about hers), is likely to feel far more awful to you than hers will to her.

That was a huge realization for me 

I no longer treat my son like he's some kind of patient. He's actually very capable of handling a lot of anxiety, although for his well being, it would be preferable to not have to tolerant such high levels. 

Your ex may dysregulate and feel anxiety and maybe direct her anxiety externally in all the ways that are dysfunctional and unpleasant, but that doesn't mean she cannot tolerate those feelings. In some ways, she may tolerate them better than you because she's used to managing much more chronic and higher levels.

The problem is that her ways of managing that distress are harmful to those around her.

Once you leave, the impact zone is drastically reduced. At that point, it's boundary setting for the win

You may have to draw on your reserves so you have the strength to hold those boundaries.

There will be surprises.

It was a surprise to me that I could set and hold a boundary, especially when I had some physical distance to work with. I imagine if you have lived in boundary free families of origin that learning to set them for the first time is kind of like learning to ride a bike. Bit rocky at first and then next thing you know you're choosing a route that's suited to your skill level, nice straight paths, no hills, lots of soft landings, then if you end up somewhere steep, getting off the bike when you need to walk.

The metaphor goes on 

LnL

[Panda39]

Panda, thank you for telling it from the other side.  One of the things that is brutal is wondering if there is anyone out there willing to love me enough to put up with BPD "baggage" that will always be there.  Of course falling in love quickly is a  but it doesn't mean 100% that its wrong.  You found each other at the right time in your lives and it works.  Stories like yours give me hope.  I know I have so much love to give and really look forward to an open honest and mutually beneficial relationship with someone.

I think the key is to learn from the past relationship, I was in a co-dependent marriage with an alcoholic and at 45 had breakdowns and breakthroughs that I learned from. If you can learn from the past you can make better choices in the future. My SO and I had very similar stories, marriages we learned from, co-dependence we finally walked out of, children who we wanted to have a better life, and we were looking for our own happiness.  We both came from marriages that really ended years before (emotionally/physically), so we were ready when we met and understood each other very well.  He was up front about his ex's behaviors - neither of us knew about BPD back then, but I went in with eyes open.  There were times I wasn't sure I could go through it all with him, but I wasn't willing to through the baby (he's so cute!  out with the bathwater (his crazy ex).  So we talked it out and tried different things to make stuff work better.  There were times we just didn't talk about his ex... .too stressful... .or made me angry for example.

By the way there are a lot of us here that have SO/DH's that have BPDx's.  The BPDex's don't scare off everyone. 

... .its certainly not my way to save a marriage.

No, it's not the way, that is what is so sad about BPD.  PwBPD have such a fear of abandonment and at the same time do everything to create the state of abandonment.

Take Care,
Panda39

[jenbren2006]

Unfortunately our story does not have a happy ending.  It has been 3.5 years of court battles, police called on us and child protective service investigations on us (always unfounded).  We have nothing left in us.  We had to move 1000 miles away thinking it would get better and nothing changed.  Our judge said this week if my husband does not move back to the state of Colorado she will have to give his ex custody.  It will happen sometime this year.  Our only hope is that once his ex has all the custody-no visitation for my husband at all he can block her cell number and email and the only way she can touch him is via the mail service.  And only about child support or health insurance issues-nothing else. 
Our story will have a happy ending in the long run as soon as the children turn 18.  But until then we will at least be living in peace.  We've been through enough.  I hope your situation and your fight goes better than ours has.

[Radcliff]

Hey Oz,

I just found this thread.  Thanks for starting it!  As you can imagine, this topic is on my mind.

You asked whether someone would be interested in you.  I am sure of it.  The better you're able to work skills like boundaries, self care, etc., and in general the better you're able to contain the drama, you'll be better off for a new relationship.  Here's the big idea, though.  You have survived for years with a super high maintenance partner.  You've learned how to validate, you've learned how to not get defensive.  Dealing with a partner anywhere within the normal range of upset, for example, would be child's play to you.  You crave peace, not drama.  You are intent on working through stuff and having a happy life.  Your relationship resume proves that you are capable of commitment and faithfulness under very difficult conditions, and you are not selfish.  Also, remember that anyone dating in their forties is going to have a back story (both your dates and your competition).  If you are streetwise and have a good dating filter and manage to land with someone who is neurotypical, you could be her dream partner.

WW

[formflier]

Oz,

Good you on you for standing firm in the face of a "threatening recycle" (if you don't pick me... .he will... .or I will pick him).

Wow... .that was bold on her part.


As to your question about happiness, I will answer for my ex brother in law.  His experience weighs heavily on my mind as I consider my future.

They are about 10 years past divorce and he is happy, financially secure, recently bought a boat (and could really afford it), has all his cars paid for, has a reasonable house that he owns and enjoys (he doesn't own it free and clear).

His ex wife, my SIL (who is much "worse" on the spectrum than my wife) has been through one or two marriages since then (yes... there really is a question about the number... ) several other relationships... .is still a mess... .and is always... .almost about to turn things around.

Then... .she "rescues defeat from the jaws of victory".  An amazing talent.

Anyway... .the first couple years were really hard, SIL really tried to do drama thing and continue the "conflict" into divorce.  Multiple court visits, false allegations... .

Then there was a couple years of calming and in the last few years SILs "hold" over her kids and her altered view of the world has exploded.  

Her only daughter moved out and is living full time with my BIL (ex BIL technically... .we are still close).  The two older boys are messes.  Their dysfunction is now on view to the world through arrests and such.  

Anyway... .long winded way of saying yes he is happy.  He had to do a lot of work to understand that he can't control his ex's choices and that his kids may make choices he doesn't agree with... and has limited control over.

FF

[Nope]

You asked whether someone would be interested in you.  I am sure of it.  The better you're able to work skills like boundaries, self care, etc., and in general the better you're able to contain the drama, you'll be better off for a new relationship.  Here's the big idea, though.  You have survived for years with a super high maintenance partner.  You've learned how to validate, you've learned how to not get defensive.  Dealing with a partner anywhere within the normal range of upset, for example, would be child's play to you.  You crave peace, not drama.  You are intent on working through stuff and having a happy life.  Your relationship resume proves that you are capable of commitment and faithfulness under very difficult conditions, and you are not selfish.  Also, remember that anyone dating in their forties is going to have a back story (both your dates and your competition).  If you are streetwise and have a good dating filter and manage to land with someone who is neurotypical, you could be her dream partner.

This. Exactly. Neither my DH or I knew about BPD when he and I started dating. All he said was that he had a difficult ex, but that the court stuff was almost over. (In truth he has a most difficult ex and the court stuff was just beginning.) When I met him I was 35, had my career and my own means, and had never been married nor had children. In hindsight what really attracted me to him was that he is a great communicator; very in-tune with me, and I never have to guess what's going on with him because he is highly emotionally intelligent and able to just tell me. Very attractive qualities to a grown woman.

I know in his case she asked for the divorce. And I know even after the divorce went through he continued to chase her and try to get back together with her. Yes, mostly for the sake of their kids, but also because he did love her. They've been divorced for twelve years and we've been together for six. The kids live with us and now we have a little one of our own. Situations with his ex do pop up from time to time but we are happy and in love and we've passed enough early tests in our relationship that we have a rare ease and confidence in our marriage.

[Radcliff]

Nope, thank you for your story!  And congratulations on the little one!  Let me see, though, if my math is correct, six years post divorce, his court stuff was just beginning?  Any lessons for us there?

Oz, have the rest of us and Nope
convinced you that there is hope?

W

[Nope]

It was just a different situation and different timing. She left him for another man and she wanted him on the back burner, maybe in case she ever wanted to go back. So she was all about being "just friends" with him. Plus he was in the military and was deploying or going to different courses contantly and was there for no threat to her complete control over the kids. She wanted him around as much as possible as a babysitter in those days. DH was completely unaware at the time about what his kids were going through. Which was a whole lot of parentification of one and emotional abuse and neglect of the other. The oldest was three at the time of the divorce. Things didn't change until he left the military and met someone new. (Not me.) Then she began blocking his access. It wasn't until I came on the scene and noticed the kid's symptoms and started reading about BPD that DH realized he'd need to get primary custody.

[ArleighBurke]

I left my BPD wife of 16yrs almost 11 months ago.

Since I left, I have my kids about 50% of the time (but no overnights). I have been trying to do finanaical settlement and been tormented by her demands and lawyers. I have started mediation to try to get my kids overnight. I am fighting her to allow my children to see their grandparents (interstate).

Despite that, I am definitely happier now. No question. My friends have commented on it. I am enjoying life. Despite the crap she puts me through, I am able to see this as a journey - this rough patch shall pass. I am loving my time with my kids - no longer having to worry that mum isn't enjoying herself or being ignored. I am loving living by myself - everything to my standard. I am loving my hobbies - enjoying them and trying new things.

And I am lonely. I think that's the word. It does feel like I have suffered a huge loss - like there is something missing in me. I'm dating, almost to the point of obsession, but I can feel I'm not emotionally open, and nothing fills that hole. There are nights I cry - screaming it's not fair - longing to love and be loved again. It's such a strange thing - feeling both happy and sad at the same time. Loving my life, yet feeling empty. People tell me it takes time to heal. I don't know how long.

But I'd still choose this over being married.

[ozmatoz]

Wow.

Thank you everyone for these responses.  I've been off for a few days and came back to lots of love and a serious sanity check here.

It sounds to me that many of you even though still dogged in the fight of divorce, just by the sheer fact of "getting out" found some happiness.  This may be a bit over simplifying perhaps getting out of the FOG lets you truly see your stbx spouse as just a pain in the ass to deal with once an awhile and that being able to live your own life and talk and be with your kids in your own ways.

WW I like your point on having learned relationship skills!  I have learned a lot.  I learned how much I still have to go too, but that will always be a work in progress.  The idea of being able to communicate properly with someone and to actually work through problems would be a dream come true.  Life is way too short to stay embroiled in arguments.  Dream partner?  I'll try my best    I wonder if Nope and Panda39 found that to be true of their partners, did their experience of dealing with a BPDx actually create more abilities to communicate and deal with relationship problems?

Hearing stories that people have been able to move on and find happiness is uplifting.

FF, you've been following along with me as I've moved from conflicted to here, thank you for staying with me during this journey.  I'm glad you have been able to maintain a relationship with your BIL.  I'm curious and nervous to find out which relationship (both family and friends) stick with me through this.  I'm prepping best I can for the drama, my BPD knows no other way.  The main point I take from your comment though is it seems your BIL has let go of trying to control his ex.  I find the control issue to be strange as in my BPD wants to control me and all aspects of living and breathing (for whatever BPD reason of the moment) and I try to control her in ways to lessen the impact on me and the children.  At some point sh-ts just going to have to hit the floor and brace for impact.  That day is coming very quickly.

jenbren2006 it sounds like you have had a rough time with things lately.  You can only do the best you can on any given day.  You and your spouses children will hopefully realize the truth when then are older.  Tough until then, but hang in there and hang with us best you can.

ArleighBurke I'm thinking I will be tormented as well, my only hope is that she won't have the funds to keeping putting coins into the lawyer "fun machine."  That being said my daughters are 11 and almost 16.  D16 is excited at the possibility of being away from mom 50% of the time and D11 has often expressed how sad it makes her to watch "mommy be so mean to daddy."  They are old enough that if necessary a custody evaluation should put things squarely back in the 50/50 range if not swung the other way.  I'm trying to stay in the house as long as possible but my sanity is just about toast.
I can relate to the lonely side of things.  While I'm happier about new possibilities, I have been alone (even in the marriage) for so long that it really does feel sad and probably a main reason I started this thread.  It will be so nice to spend time with the kids and not care taking of their mother when enjoying activities.  Hobbies?  What hobbies?  Oh you mean the things that keep a person whole and unique?  Yes very much looking forward to getting back to my hiking and photography.  Those were the first things BPD took from me.   What has been your favorite thing to get back to?

Again, thank you everyone from the bottom of my heart for being here for me and for others. 
-Oz

[livednlearned]

I have been alone (even in the marriage) for so long that it really does feel sad and probably a main reason I started this thread. 

This is so insightful.

I think I was so afraid and guilty and obligated during my marriage that I didn't really notice how lonely I felt.

Then, after the divorce, the loneliness really reared up. There was so much quiet, so much of just me, no urgent chronic interpersonal conflict to distract from that feeling. I suspect the loneliness was rooted in childhood. It felt older than marriage, almost existential.

Dealing with that loneliness is probably different for everyone. I suppose I had to tease apart that being alone and being lovable were separate things. "I am alone and want company, so I'll do xyz or call so and so." Versus "I am alone and have no one who wants me. I don't really like myself, either."

I suspect it's hard to overcome those feelings without therapy of some sort, to help address the cognitive distortions that most likely exist after a BPD marriage.