Custody battle on the horizon

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi everyone,

If you're not familiar with my story, here's the last few threads:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=318439.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=319917.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=320090.0

TL:)R: A crazy series of events led to my decision to divorce uBPDstbxw.  She overdosed and spent a week in the hospital.  Now she's moved in with her stepmom who lives in a bordering state.


Last Friday, the judge signed a 12-month temporary order granting me full custody of S5.  However, uBPDstbxw can have him for any length of time, even out of state, at my discretion.

That same day, we met at the halfway point and exchanged him for the weekend.  The next day, she took him to the beach, forgot sunscreen (fortunately he's not as pasty white as I am, but he still got pretty burnt), and then lost her car key and had to spend most of the money I had just sent her on a locksmith... .

When I met her halfway to pick S5 up the following day, she initially refused to let me start getting his things into my car until I had a discussion with her about getting more custody.  This was infuriating -- the 12-month order was her idea, and she's already trying to get me to change things!  I threatened to call the local police (I actually dialed the number, but my cell phone was acting up and wouldn't work until I later restarted it... .).  That got her to agree to start moving his things to my car, but after I got him loaded up, she still wanted to have the discussion before she would say goodbye to him.  So I left her with him and grabbed a cup of coffee (we were in a restaurant parking lot).  When I returned, I got in the car and drove away.

The next day, she called and apologized.  We've been on surprisingly good terms since the split.  She's also been surprisingly high functioning.  In less than two weeks, she's already landed a decent sales job and has a lead on a place to live.  Before this all happened, she would barely ever leave the house because she was allegedly so sick.


Right now, I have judge-ordered physical custody.  I also have a great talking point for her, which she mostly agrees with -- "I should have custody while you get back on your feet."

However, I'm concerned about the future, which is probably pretty near at the rate she's been doing things, in which she is settled into her new life and feels that she is fully capable of being a parent.  "A mother needs her son," she likes to tell me.

Initially, she asked for holidays and school breaks only.  I'm ok with that.  Then she started saying we need a 50% split.  If she wasn't nearly 8 hours away, I'd be moderately ok with that, but it's not practical with our current distance.  Now she's saying that she should get the school year since I get summers off.

For now, I keep saying, "Focus on yourself for now.  Let's wait and see what happens at the end of the 12 months."  But I can't keep kicking this can forever.  Eventually, I need to make it clear to her that I intend to have primary custody.

[prof]

Hi everyone,

If you're not familiar with my story, here's the last few threads:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=318439.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=319917.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=320090.0

TL:)R: A crazy series of events led to my decision to divorce uBPDstbxw.  She overdosed and spent a week in the hospital.  Now she's moved in with her stepmom who lives in a bordering state.


Last Friday, the judge signed a 12-month temporary order granting me full custody of S5.  However, uBPDstbxw can have him for any length of time, even out of state, at my discretion.

That same day, we met at the halfway point and exchanged him for the weekend.  The next day, she took him to the beach, forgot sunscreen (fortunately he's not as pasty white as I am, but he still got pretty burnt), and then lost her car key and had to spend most of the money I had just sent her on a locksmith... .

When I met her halfway to pick S5 up the following day, she initially refused to let me start getting his things into my car until I had a discussion with her about getting more custody.  This was infuriating -- the 12-month order was her idea, and she's already trying to get me to change things!  I threatened to call the local police (I actually dialed the number, but my cell phone was acting up and wouldn't work until I later restarted it... .).  That got her to agree to start moving his things to my car, but after I got him loaded up, she still wanted to have the discussion before she would say goodbye to him.  So I left her with him and grabbed a cup of coffee (we were in a restaurant parking lot).  When I returned, I got in the car and drove away.

The next day, she called and apologized.  We've been on surprisingly good terms since the split.  She's also been surprisingly high functioning.  In less than two weeks, she's already landed a decent sales job and has a lead on a place to live.  Before this all happened, she would barely ever leave the house because she was allegedly so sick.


Right now, I have judge-ordered physical custody.  I also have a great talking point for her, which she mostly agrees with -- "I should have custody while you get back on your feet."

However, I'm concerned about the future, which is probably pretty near at the rate she's been doing things, in which she is settled into her new life and feels that she is fully capable of being a parent.  "A mother needs her son," she likes to tell me.

Initially, she asked for holidays and school breaks only.  I'm ok with that.  Then she started saying we need a 50% split.  If she wasn't nearly 8 hours away, I'd be moderately ok with that, but it's not practical with our current distance.  Now she's saying that she should get the school year since I get summers off.

For now, I keep saying, "Focus on yourself for now.  Let's wait and see what happens at the end of the 12 months."  But I can't keep kicking this can forever.  Eventually, I need to make it clear to her that I intend to have primary custody.

[ForeverDad]

Fathers in a good initial parenting status especially have to be careful about feeling guilted into Gifting Away their initial advantage.  By nature we are fair people but custody and paranting schedules are not about being fair or overly fair as we are likely to be.  The disordered spouse is unlikely to reciprocate our sense of fairness.  Of course court wants things to go better over time (so understand well that court will bend over backwards to not disadvantage her) but you have the responsibility to do what is best for your young son.

"A mother needs her son," she likes to tell me.

You need caution here.  People with BPD have an intense sense if neediness.  It's like she feels the child is an extension of herself, to an unhealthy extent.  But she's got it backwards, it is a child who needs his parent.  What she says isn't totally wrong, but it displays her self-focused perspective.

My ex too laid in bed for months, not getting out of bed until I left for work, blaming me for everything wrong in her life, that I didn't love our son, that she'd disappear with him and I'd never see him again, etc.  Lo and behold, once our conflict was raised to the level of getting the police involved, she miraculously got up, found work, etc.

You have a rare advantage now... .you're the stable parent AND you have a solid position in parenting.  Don't feel pressured into Gifting it Away.  We all know you won't be mean or unreasonable.  But the real risk is that you feel you have to be nice and overly fair.  You can't risk that until she's gotten into meaningful therapy and has proved herself over time to have applied it in her thinking, her perceptions, her behaviors, her life.  Recovery is not an event, it is a long process.  Reward her too much too quick and you risk enabling her sense of entitlement and control.

Oh, and getting a job is not what I mean about recovery.  Studious application of DBT or similar therapy in her life is so critical.  A few sessions is only a start.  Probably it will take a couple years to determine whether she's solidly on the path to recovery.

Understand too that distance can allow some of the misbehaviors to be hidden or not rise to the surface.  She's 8 hours away.  She will seem better because you're not there all the time to trigger her overreactions.  Yes, she found work and a place to live, but notice how the conflict arose so quickly at the exchange?

[Panda39]

Hi prof,

Keep every month of that 12 months, your wife is just coming out of a crisis, is getting a lot of attention and is on her best behavior but without serious work on her part I don't expect the best behavior to last.  I hate to sound like a "Negative Nelly" but based on my experience observing my SO's uBPDxw the same bad behaviors will reappear again over time.  Proceed with caution and keep your focus on what is best for your son that is your job and should be your focus. What is best for your wife is up to her.

Maybe you set a boundary to not talk divorce with your wife for a period of time, say 6 months and during that period observe and document if needed her behaviors and re-evaluate things again at the end of 6 months.

Just tell her you don't want to talk about the divorce for a while as everyone is settling in to their "new normal".  If she brings it up tell her you aren't ready to discuss it.  Put the "blame" on yourself something like "I'm still adjusting to the new situation, I'm not ready to talk about the divorce yet.

Don't feel pressured to decide something right now, wait, watch, process, get some distance between the two of you,  spend time with your son, meet with a divorce lawyer (ask questions) and get some perspective before deciding to discuss anything and especially before doing/agreeing to anything with your wife.  You have the luxury of 12 months to do this.  The 12 months is a real blessing in terms of time, in terms of healing, in terms of stability for your son, in terms of decision making and sets a parenting pattern leading into court.

Panda39

[livednlearned]

Hi prof,

I read all three links. Wow, friend. You've been through the wringer. Hats off to you for holding steady in the storm, and keeping things together for S5. I'm glad you have friends here to reach out to when you need peer support.

For now, I keep saying, "Focus on yourself for now.  Let's wait and see what happens at the end of the 12 months."  But I can't keep kicking this can forever.  Eventually, I need to make it clear to her that I intend to have primary custody.

What does your L say?

Also, a technicality on terminology. Primary custody is definitely meaningful -- it's also different than visitation. You can have primary physical custody and 50/50 visitation.

You can also have sole legal custody, which is significant for many of us, and kind of hard to get. Usually things start with joint legal custody -- because of your wife's psychiatric stay, it's possible there is a strong case for sole custody, at least for these 12 months.

A lot of BPD post-divorce relationship conflict ends up manifesting in coparenting decision-making, so if you have decision-making (sometimes broken out from legal custody) in your back pocket, you can focus on what is best for S5 when your wife cannot. It doesn't mean you drop the ball on coparenting skills, it just means if push comes to shove, you can move forward on a decision re: S5 without her consent.

When it comes to your wife focusing on the custody plan, compare it to her thing with Christmas.

She has poor impulse control, has poor emotion regulation, no boundaries, and will do anything to stop the pain. So if you feel now is not the time to discuss it, then treat it like Christmas. She will need your help learning about this new boundary.

Consistency will help here.

Unless, of course, your L thinks it's important to move quickly.

I'm so sorry you're going through this right now, prof. Hope you and S5 are finding time to heal and enjoy your time.

LnL

[prof]

Fathers in a good initial parenting status especially have to be careful about feeling guilted into Gifting Away their initial advantage.

This is exactly what I'm feeling.  Thank you for putting this into words!  uBPDstbxw has been putting on a real show the last few days about how hurt she is that I won't just agree to letting her have him during the school year.  Never mind that she's only been out of the psychiatric hospital for a little more than two weeks... .

What does your L say?


Also, a technicality on terminology. Primary custody is definitely meaningful -- it's also different than visitation. You can have primary physical custody and 50/50 visitation.

You can also have sole legal custody, which is significant for many of us, and kind of hard to get. Usually things start with joint legal custody -- because of your wife's psychiatric stay, it's possible there is a strong case for sole custody, at least for these 12 months.

According to my L, we share legal custody and I have sole physical custody with liberal visitation rights for her.  He says that I'm in the "best possible position for a father with a minor child' in our state.  So that's very comforting!

[livednlearned]

Never mind that she's only been out of the psychiatric hospital for a little more than two weeks... .

Remember that the above is connected to below in more ways than one 

uBPDstbxw has been putting on a real show the last few days about how hurt she is that I won't just agree to letting her have him during the school year.

There is no overcoat on her emotions, everything is probably high intensity all the time, needs must be met immediately, problem solving is not a strength, boundaries are nil. She's in free fall and her emotions are going to be super raw and her thinking will be distorted, probably more than normal for her, altho it might depend on the team working with her and who else is in there with her.

Plus, her illness is directly interfering with her ability to be a mother, something deeply deeply shameful in a person who will likely go to great lengths to avoid experiencing that feeling.

Clinging to the idea she can get her parenting situation back to normal might be an attempt to avoid rock bottom.

We all do stuff to avoid feeling bad. Hers is really extreme. 

[ForeverDad]

According to my L, we share legal custody and I have sole physical custody with liberal visitation rights for her.  He says that I'm in the "best possible position for a father with a minor child" in our state.

One concern with shared legal custody is what happens when the parents don't agree.  For many it means the parent who wants to do something has to file for court, a parenting coordinator or mediator to address the matter.  The court would probably take several months, the others perhaps a little less time.  For now you should be in the driver's seat.  After a year, who knows... .  Somewhere along the way you may want to solidify what shared legal custody means.  Concepts that are essentially like full custody but are still joint are Decision Making or Tie Breaker status.  Does your state have something like that?  The difference is that instead of you waiting on professionals to decide major issues, you get to proceed after the disagreement and then the ex is the one who has to file and wait on the professional's input.

One reason family courts are reluctant to resort to full custody is they don't want a parent to feel shut out or invalidated.

[formflier]

Did you document the sunscreen/sunburn? 

Did you have any kind of written agreement for the exchange over the weekend? 

What you are essentially saying by letting her have him (potentially) is that she is ok for unsupervised visits.  At least she could argue this.  If you have documentation of the sunburn, you would have an argument back.

My initial reaction would be you should wait until you have something in writing from her therapist that she is stable for short term unsupervised visits.

I would avoid putting YOURSELF as the determining person there, without outside validation of your view.

Let me ask it another way.  Knowing what you know now, would you do this again?

FF

[Radcliff]

Hello prof,

It's been a while.  Have you had a peaceful month?

WW

[prof]

It's been a while.  Have you had a peaceful month?

Relatively peaceful -- thanks for asking!

I'm definitely starting to get used to my new life.  S5 has started soccer, so I spend a couple nights a week taking him to practices and games.  I try and go for a run while he's playing.  I'm also getting pretty active in my church, where I sing the choir.  Work is going well.

For the most part, uBPDstbxw and I have a cordial relationship.  Things can go south when custody stuff comes up, of course.

Right now, S5 is on spring break, and he's spending it with her.  The original plan was for me to drive him down Thursday evening, as both he and I had Friday off.  But I had car trouble on the way down, and needed get that taken care of.  uBPDstbxw was understandably unhappy, and expected me to rent a car so she could get him down to her that night.  She also was frustrated with me that while I was originally trying to figure out what was wrong with the car and what to do about it, I didn't want to talk to her on the phone about my plans.  I think I handled her well, calmly setting boundaries.

Everything worked out as best as it could.  I dropped the car off at a shop on Thursday and got rides home and then back to the shop on Friday (fortunately I was only about an hour away).  We handed S5 off on Friday afternoon.  I even got back home in time to sing for my church's Good Friday service!

I fully expect a meltdown from uBPDstbxw next weekend when S5 comes back -- that's been the case so far for the our two previous exchanges.

[formflier]

Do you have professionals saying it is a good idea for her to have unsupervised times with him?

Is this the first unsupervised time she has had?

What kind of custody has she agreed to (even if not finalized yet).

FF

[Radcliff]

prof, I'm glad you're settling into a new routine.  Thanks for the update!

I am not nearly choir material, but an activity I did as part of my "get a life" efforts was to go to a local Messiah singalong last Sunday.  It was remarkable!

I'll hold off on any questions and let you focus on formflier's questions for now... .

WW

[prof]

Do you have professionals saying it is a good idea for her to have unsupervised times with him?

My L suggests keeping her relatively happy for the time being, and the visits are a big part of that.

Is this the first unsupervised time she has had?

No, the third.  She had a weekend shortly after this all started, then a week last month and now this week.

What kind of custody has she agreed to (even if not finalized yet).

We're in the third month of a 12-month temporary agreement, which she signed and is based on her suggestions.  I have full physical custody, and all visits with her are at my disgression.  No visitation schedule is currently set in stone -- it's all informal between us.

[david]

A few thoughts. Make sure you document things that don't go well for S5. One sunburn is not big deal to the courts but a string of various things will raise eyebrows in court. Make sure you have records of any such incidents.

In the beginning my ex was very high functioning. She was extremely convincing in court. I even started to doubt myself a few times. She had a very good job. Slowly she started unraveling. It took about three years. She was no longer convincing in court. She lost her good job. Got another job but nowhere near as good. We only communicate though email. We have very few exchanges anymore but when I get an email they are usually passive/aggressive and very different then our court order. I simply quote the order and follow it.

Remember, S5 will be starting school in a year. Does uBPD live in the same school district or close enough ? If not, how will she handle that. No need to discuss it. I agree to give it time to see what happens. Never divulge information you do not have to divulge. I used to do that and ex always used it against me.

[Turkish]

In addition to what the others said, document.

Things can happen. My then D2 was running around at a pizza parlor, fell and broke her clavicle.  That was on mom's time.  On my time,  then S6 was jumping on my bed,  fell and fractured his skull (he turned out ok). Neither of these incidents were our faults, but accidents. Kids! The lack of sunscreen,  however,  seems neglectful. Based upon that incident, more may come.  Document.

[formflier]

Can you update us on the status of moving closer to work and school for your kid?  Seems like it was talked about and possibly done.

FF

[prof]

Can you update us on the status of moving closer to work and school for your kid?  Seems like it was talked about and possibly done.

They're building a new apartment complex nearby that would be perfect.  It opens this summer, and I'm on the waiting list to learn more about it.

After the semester finishes up next month, I'm going to spend more time looking for other places as well.

My hands are a little tied with all our pets.  uBPDstbxw wants our dog and 2 cats, which would leave me with 2 cats.  That should make the search a bit easier.

[formflier]

 
Do you want the cats?  Or would you rather trade them for goldfish?

So... .you are still living in the rural property... right?


Prof,

Very proud of you for taking your stand... .for being there for your kid... .I'm sure your story has inspired others!   


What changes have you noticed in your relationship with your son?

FF

[prof]

Do you want the cats?  Or would you rather trade them for goldfish?

Yes and no.  I love cats.  I grew up with them as a kid and always planned on having a couple of my own when I grew up.  That was one of the things that drew me to uBPDstbxw in the first place -- we both loved cats.  She even had one when we started dating.  Then she convinced me to get one of my own.  Then we got a third one together.  And a fourth one.  And so on... .

But I could use a break.  I've cleaned out enough litter pans, paid enough vet bills, etc., to last a lifetime.  (I'm actually procrastinating from doing the litter right now as I type this .)

The reality is looking like uBPDstbxw is going to take at most two cats, leaving me with two.  Which is fine.  A lot better than 27!

So... .you are still living in the rural property... right?

Yes, for now.

Very proud of you for taking your stand... .for being there for your kid... .I'm sure your story has inspired others!   



What changes have you noticed in your relationship with your son?

None, really.  The dynamic really hasn't changed much.  I was the primary caregiver before when uBPDstbxw laid in bed all day.  I'm the primary caregiver now that she's not here.

[prof]

So here's the latest drama.

uBPDstbxw wants to put S5 in daycare when he visits her on weekdays when she works.  And she wants me to pay for it.

I told her on the phone today that I would do no such thing.  She's retaliating by making me drive the entire distance to pick him up this weekend instead of meeting halfway like we planned.

She'll be in violation of our custody agreement if she doesn't reimbursement half of my travel expenses.

[Radcliff]

uBPDstbxw wants to put S5 in daycare when he visits her on weekdays when she works.  And she wants me to pay for it.

That certainly sounds upsetting.  But it sounds like a question for your lawyer.  Do you have an interim support agreement in place?  Is this something where you can just look up the rules, or is there ambiguity?

I told her on the phone today that I would do no such thing.  She's retaliating by making me drive the entire distance to pick him up this weekend instead of meeting halfway like we planned.

She'll be in violation of our custody agreement if she doesn't reimbursement half of my travel expenses.

Does she have a really good excuse, like a broken car?  Could this be a boundaries thing?  Could you drive halfway to the meet point, and say you'll call the police if she doesn't show up?  Or drive to the meet point, if she doesn't show, drive home, and ask your lawyer to call her lawyer and demand that she return him?  I may not have the exact right solution here... .can you think of a consequence that works to help enforce a boundary on this?  Something that is effective and keeps drama as low as is consistent with being effective?

WW

[david]

As you go back to court think of additions to the custody order that cover the obstacles you have encountered and/or can anticipate occurring.
Years backer order had me pick our boys up at exes' residence. Problem was, she would not let them have their schoolbags even though they were overnight with me. Ex took me to court for a protection order. She claimed she was afraid whenever I was near her. I sat in my car ? but that is another issue. I did not try to counter that she was incorrect. Instead I requested that I pick the boys up at their school instead of her place. Judge loved that idea. Ex was not happy but realized she had no argument against it so she agreed. I had my attorney hand write the new order right there in court. The judge looked it over, gave it to ex, she signed, I signed, and the judge signed.
I went to pick the boys up the next day at school. I was told that I could not without exes' agreement. Ex told the school she had complete authority over any such occurrences. I gave them copy of the new order. They questioned it since it was not typed out. I had them fax it to their legal and was driving away in about 15 minutes after that. Ex was furious in an email to me.

[formflier]

As time goes on... you will find more gotchas.

I would recommend you be pragmatic.  Go all the way and get your son.

Step 1... .get him in your custody.

Step 2... .send her bill... certified return reciept


I would say that the agreement should be updated before she gets him again on overnights.

You understand why she doesn't do these things when she doesn't have him... right?  She wants to use him as leverage.

FF

[livednlearned]

uBPDstbxw wants to put S5 in daycare when he visits her on weekdays when she works.  And she wants me to pay for it.

Her troubles regulating emotions may make it harder to solve problems than it is for you.

This is a poor attempt to solve her own problems (of her making) -- she wants to see S5, and she has to work. She doesn't feel there is enough money to pay for child care, so she wants you to do it.

I know it's hard when you have emotional skin in the game, but from out here on the Internet, the simple answer to her suggestion is: no.

 

"I am glad you want S5 to be with you and I know he's looking forward to it. You have to work and he needs someone to care for him, and you feel strapped for cash. I am, too. Let's work out a short-term solution that focuses on what is best for S5. When there is not enough money to cover day care expenses during your time with him, he can spend time with me. If there is any ambiguity, let's get it ironed out with the lawyers so things are clear going forward."

She's retaliating by making me drive the entire distance to pick him up this weekend instead of meeting halfway like we planned.

This is another problem of her own making. Let her solve it.

"Please let me know by day/time if you will be meeting us halfway. If I don't hear from you by then, I will assume our arrangement to meet halfway is off the table. Let me know when you would like to reschedule and I will gladly meet you at the arranged halfway point."

It gets easier when you get some distance and feel less emotionally triggered by her tit for tat.

She'll be in violation of our custody agreement if she doesn't reimbursement half of my travel expenses.

Try to keep leverage where possible. She broke the agreement to drive halfway, so then the agreement is off. If the custody agreement says she needs to reimburse your travel expenses, and she does not agree to do that, then next time you are in court offer consequences and solutions for when she goes off script like this.

Document everything, and like others have said, clear everything with your lawyer.

The goal for family courts is to keep you out of there. Judges don't want to solve this stuff -- they want to see one or both parents come forward with their own solutions. Your ex will not comply when she is triggered, and there is a learning curve as you find out the many ways in which she will sabotage herself and you when her emotions are in the red zone. Once you get a feel for that, you can start modifying the custody agreement to have built in consequences that guide you when she is not in compliance.

[ForeverDad]

Meeting for exchanges at a halfway point keeps things as fair as possible - if both work with the schedule.  Yeah.

Some default court schedules have the delivering party drive to the receiver's area.  (Or is it the other way around?)  Whichever way you choose, you want it to be right for you.  I recall seeing one mother waiting at the sheriff's parking lot, one I used for years due to risk of conflict at my exchange.  The mother said she had to come per order, wait and then leave because her ex seldom came to enable a visit with his child.  I remember thinking that she ought to have in her order that after two failed exchanges (her delivering children but him not coming) then the father would have to inform her 24 hours in advance when he would be showing up.

That's not your problem of course, but the point is that there may be some non-standard solution.  How about this?  "Evidently you want me to come pick up our children from your residence (or a neutral location nearby).  If that is what works for you then I am okay with changing the order so that each parent picks up from the other's residence or nearby.  Understand that this means: I would pickup from your residence, your daycare or nearby, and equally, you would pick up from my residence, my daycare or nearby.  Is that what you are seeking?"

You are offering an equitable solution that no court would reject as unfair.  It puts the ball back in her court, if she makes a change, it affects both pickups and dropoffs, not just the portions that are convenient for her.

If you do have an order for meeting halfway and you don't see a need to cave to her demand, then arrive at your midway point, wait for a reasonable time window (in the past my county has stated the time window is a half hour) and then call the local police (there) to report a failed exchange.  Usually an officer will arrive, call your ex and try to convince her to follow the order and then make a report.  You get a couple reports like that and then you have solid independent documentation for a Contempt of Court case.  Be forewarned that Contempt determinations are too often handed out like parking tickets, mothers are seldom fined or sent to jail, it may take a few before the court gets peeved.

[prof]

On Friday, uBPDstbxw called me claiming that she "didn't want to be petty," and agreed to meet halfway.

She also wanted me to bring down one of her lizards.   One less animal for me to take care of -- sounded great to me!  I asked if she wanted the stand that we put the lizard's tank on.  I thought that she said yes.  (She later claimed that she said that she will want it, i.e., at some point in the future when we move the bulk of her stuff.)

I sent her a text in the morning saying to make sure there's room in her trunk to put S5's car seat, because the stand will take up her entire back seat.  (I had just finished doing exactly the same thing in my car.)  She responded saying that there would be plenty of room after we took S5's luggage out of her trunk.

When we met, uBPDstbxw saw that I had the stand in my car and claimed it wouldn't fit in hers.  Even though her car is smaller, I was pretty sure it would be just fine.  She didn't want me to put the lizard tank in the front seat, because that was where she needed to put her purse.  "Put your purse on top of the lizard!"  She didn't like that either.  Then she claimed she wouldn't be able to get it out of her car.  "Have the guys at work help you!"  (The lizard is going to her office.)  Then she told me she always gets to work before they do.  "Wait until they get there!"  Then she changed the subject to some other reason she couldn't take the stand.  Wow -- I don't missing living with this one bit!

She insisted that it was my mistake for bringing the stand in the first place, and that I would need to deal with it.  I finally had it, and started carrying the stand toward a dumpster in the corner of the parking lot that we'd met in.  She finally relented and I loaded everything in her car.  It fit just fine... .

Meanwhile, S5 was watching the whole exchange and called me out for fighting.  Apparently, uBPDstbxw had promised him that we would eat lunch together as a family.  At this point, there was no way I wanted to do anything other than load S5 up in my car and get the heck out of there.  But I relented after S5 guilted me a bit.

Things calmed down a bit when we ate.  I agreed to buy uBPDstbxw a towel to cover the lizard's tank so she could run the AC in her car.  (Yet another problem with how I'd loaded her car... .)


A few hours later, I get a call from uBPDstbxw.  She'd gotten home, but I was still 30-45 min away from my place.  She was angry at me for taking away from her time video chatting with S5... .  (Even though we meet at the halfway point distance-wise, it takes me about an hour longer each way because I have a lot of 2-lane rural roads, while her trip is all freeway.)


Tonight when she was video chatting with S5, she was certain that I had someone else at the house.  (I didn't... .)  She yelled at me for talking to S5 about the Lego set we were building while she was video chatting.  She freaks out and texts, "Why can't I talk to me son?" when my phone's on vibrate and I miss her call.  Gah!

[Radcliff]

Hey prof, some of your wife's behaviors certainly sound frustrating.  What things might you have done differently at the exchange if you had it to do over again, with an eye towards S5 not witnessing conflict?

She complains about your video chats with S5.  Just let it slide off your back.

She complained about you talking during her chat with S5.  Was that at the very beginning of the call or in the middle?  I imagine you need to set him up in the beginning.  Can you establish a routine where you set him up and then leave?

WW

[formflier]

I would be pragmatic... .make a list of everything in your house that you believe to be hers.

Consider what you think is on that list that might be important.

Consider what she may think is important on that list.

Consider if that would fit in one car trip.  Consider if that would fit in a car trip with your son also in the car.

The purpose is to "disentangle" and "take away tools she has or might use to bash you".


Likely you should post here before offering to take any of this stuff to her. 

What kind of responses did you have to "you have someone in the house" and "you are messing up video chats".  (the key is to make sure you are not "feeding" her need (whatever it may be).

FF

[livednlearned]

Hi prof,

This is a good play-by-play of how someone with intense emotions struggles to problem solve.

She probably has a lifetime of profoundly overwhelming emotions coupled with a deficit regulating them, and that prevents her from managing some of the cognitive processes non-BPD people may take for granted. Her skills are weak at best.

Yours have to be twice as good. 

When she is around you, expect her to dysregulate a little bit, if not a lot. It's painful to see an ex-partner  so in those moments she is going to be even more handicapped. The push-pulls can be internal, too. She probably wants to be competent, and it's terrifying at the same time. Push, pull. From one second to the next, she will want to be rescued, and then resent help.

Validating questions can help you communicate skillfully without solving problems for her. This keeps the push-pull dynamic in her court.

You be a coach, not a player.

You can also let her lead on problem solving, and set boundaries for how you are willing to be involved. "I admire you for setting stuff aside so we can meet halfway, and I truly appreciate it. You mentioned bringing the lizard. Let me know how best to handle the transfer, what I should bring and what you will need. I'll take your lead. You have a good sense of what you'll need when transferring the lizard so I'll wait for your instructions. I know the lizard will do well under your care because you're so good with him" or whatever you say about lizards 

The hard part is managing your own emotions so that you can engage with her skillfully.

It's not easy!

It's also possible.

Everyone wants to feel competent 

Meanwhile, S5 was watching the whole exchange and called me out for fighting.

S5 is a boss 

There is a good book called Don't Alienate the Kids: Raising Emotionally Resilient Kids When One Parent Has BPD by Bill Eddy. It was a game changer for me. Eddy makes you realize that you are modeling specific skills for your kid, and breaks them down for you.

These exchanges are not about you and your ex. They are about you and S5. Show him the skills he needs to internalize so he can grow up emotionally resilient.

Learning these skills for him will change not only his life, but yours.

 

LnL

[formflier]

Yours have to be twice as good. 
 

And... .this just isn't fair... .but it is. 

Personally I've struggled with "If she is the crazy one... .why do I have to work so hard?"  Then I look around at my kids... .and the improvements and the relative "stability" that has come to our family, largely as a result of my hard work.

There will be more moments when your kids "call you out" or otherwise "ask a hard question" and you realize you have much more work to do... .those times will be hard, yet getting clarity on places where you can improve is always a good thing.  Always...

As your kid gets older, you will have other moments where you see the fruits of your hard work... .trust me... .those moments will make all this hard work worth it.

I'm taking out S15 for a celebratory dinner tonight.  I got the text today "I'm officially in early college".

A bit over a year ago we had counselors advising us to put him in a high school program for freshmen in high school that is primarily for "troublemakers".  S15 is really smart... .but his mind wanders... .organizational skills are a bit lacking.

So... .we put him in the program and I focused on validating... .gently nudges... .praise... .but generally let him run his own life.  He's done much better than I figured he would.

Anyway... .keep up the hard work!  It will pay off.

FF